| Thank anyone but God | |
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JavaGuy - Student  |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139304,00.html Quote: But what teachers don't mention when they describe the feast is that the Pilgrims not only thanked the Native Americans for their peaceful three-day indulgence, but repeatedly thanked God. "We teach about Thanksgiving from a purely historical perspective, not from a religious perspective," said Charles Ridgell, St. Mary's County Public Schools curriculum and instruction director. Many public school textbooks also define "pilgrim" as someone who makes a long journey, never mentioning that a pilgrimage is, quite specifically a religious journey. A "purely historical perspective" means censoring any mention of religion? Even when religion played a critical role in the events being discussed? Do they teach about the Crusades without mentioning that religion might have had a little bit to do with it? What about the Reformation? The Spanish Inquisition? When schools teach about the Salem witch trials, do they never once mention what those on trial were accused of? Public schools...putting the "C" in Quality. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Quote: And I think it's interesting that in 12 (13? I forget  ) years of school I have yet to learn about the Reformation, Inquisition, or Salem trials. Most of the focus has been on Canada's history from 1600 to now. That is horrifying. Now I would expect a lot of focus on Canada since you live in Canada. But you can't understand Canadian history without a solid grounding in world history. My favorite United States history book devotes the first 150 pages or so to the history of Europe starting with the ancient Athenians--impossible to understand the Revolution without understanding its historical and philosophical roots. I find it shocking that you haven't learned about the Inquisition or the Reformation. The Reformation was one of the biggest events in history and has shaped events for centuries since, certainly Canadian history. It didn't even get a mention?  Go smack some history teachers upside the head. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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And I think it's interesting that in 12 (13? I forget ) years of school I have yet to learn about the Reformation, Inquisition, or Salem trials. Most of the focus has been on Canada's history from 1600 to now. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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Quote: Edit: For all you Atheists/agnostics: "In Bob We Trust" works well. I prefer "In Fishbot We Trust". _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Yes, but I am Captain Obvious, so felt it my duty to point it out. |
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Buzz - Student 
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and that's the point. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
OK, to make at least one constructive (*cough*) comment in this thread: I believe God/religion is best left out of school, when it's aimed at getting the student to believe what the teachers want... but it would most certainly be foolish ignorance to just completely pretend religion never existed, when in history class. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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Well it's hard to deny that if I believe in God and someone else doesn't, one of us is definitely wrong. I've never been particularly impressed with "proofs" that there is or is not a God--they all suffer from one logical fallacy or another, but I do believe there's a God. I just can't prove it and won't pretend that I can. I wonder what the schools are teaching about 9/11. Are the terrorists just a bunch of guys who, for reasons left unexplained, don't eat pork? God forbid any mention that they believed they were doing it for God--that would require mentioning God! _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student 
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Quote: If someone wants to be an atheist or whatever even though they are completely wrong then let them be. Haha, it took me several minutes to find where that came from. Awesome statement. See that's my problem with religions in general: either you're a believer or you're wrong. Then I'm wrong because I do not belong to any religious movement. And I do not state believers are any more wrong than me, I tolerate them as openly as possible as long as they don't force me to believe in something that doesn't suit my view of the universe. Back to the topic, I see a very political gesture of 'appeasement' from the people who decided that, considering the fact there are so many minorities in the USA that might find the religious aspect of Thanksgiving doesn't fit them. And I also agree it is somewhat dumb to think it can solve any tension or problem. Religion and politics never go along very well from a global and historical point of view. _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan  - [DJ is my beloved wife!  - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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JavaGuy - Student
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I believe there is a God. But whether I'm right or wrong, consider this: Either there is a God, or there isn't. Either proposition is a sobering thought. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Don't worry Aratan, you're not wrong because you're an atheist, you're wrong because you're Aratan. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote: If someone wants to be an atheist or whatever even though they are completely wrong then let them be. Thanks, you made my day. ^^ |
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. - Ex-Student |
Quote: Well Ekim, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there in those same founding texts a law somewhere that clearly says that church and state are to be separated? Doesn't that give those minority groups an undeniable legal ground to base their complaints on?  Yeah it does say that. But that shouldnt give any organization the right to tell anyone of any religion that they have to silence themselves just to simply submit to a group of people who dont want to believe in god. It is like if you was sitting in a park and you decided you want to pray and some cop comes along and arrests you for doing so. Would that be fair to you? No. I'm just simply saying that since THIS country was founded on the same principles of christianity then that is part of the nations history and should NOT be censored just because small groups here and there doesnt like what it says. That would be just like if a german man didnt like what history books said about nazis and he wanted to go back and rewrite it so that germany looked innocent or something. Would that be fair to go back and rewrite an entire country's historical foundation? No. It shouldnt bother people at all to be different. If someone wants to be an atheist or whatever even though they are completely wrong then let them be. Same goes with people who believe in god in one form or another....let them be as well. But I or anyone else for that matter does not need an organization to tell us what we can and cannot do in a country that is based on the principles like that. People just need to stop whining about this....god exists plain and simple and I dont want some idiots taking away my religious rights to submit to complaints made by atheists. I will say "In god we trust" untill I am dead and gone. I will stand up for every man, woman and child in this country that has their religious rights stripped of them by groups like this and I will speak my mind about it. Bottom line is this...If you dont like my religion or someone else's then get over it and leave them be. America is getting to the point where you have to deny the rights of many to satisfy the radical and sometimes outrageous ambitions of others. _______________ 4/20/2005----Left the academy because I did'nt feel welcomed. This comment was edited by . on Nov 24 2004 11:56am. |
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Garos - Student 
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That school seems kinda stupid |
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Buzz - Student
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Thomas Jefferson wasn't exactly a Christian. He was more of a Dieist, believing God created the world and left it to its own machinations. The God he believed in is not the same as what others believed in. The ACLU is also the dumbest most idiotic organization created. They pick and choose which part of the constitution to attack. They certainly don't defend it. Its completely outrageous to strike religion 100% from our schools. Especially in HISTORY class. The majority of history is centered around Religion. The Roman Emperor Constantine converting to Catholism basically ending the persecution of Catholics in the Empire, and making Rome the center of the Catholic Church, the Crusades, The Reformation and the wars around it, Henry the 8th and the Church of England. All of these historical events are centered around religion. And that last one is a major cause for American history. The Pilgrims, the Puritans, the Quakers, all came to America and founded colonies to escape the church of england. Missionaries being a driving force in the colonization of America. The Mormons travelling to Utah and starting that territory. I don't even understand how its possible to teach history without talking about religion. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Lian Del Rey - Student 
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That's stupid! _______________ slorp |
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Stimpski - Student 
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Back in 1789, when the Constitution was written, most, if not all, of the nation was Christian, in one form or another. So when they added "In God We Trust", they shrugged it off, because Christianity was the primary religion at the time. Look at it this way: You can replace God with whatever the name is of the high being in your religion. Jewish people can say "In Yahweh We Trust". Moslems might say "In Allah We Trust". It doesn't matter. They're all the same: spiritual beings in a religion. Edit: For all you Atheists/agnostics: "In Bob We Trust" works well. _______________ Stimpski (formerly known as DeathScythe many, many moons ago.) JA Forum ID - 3988 <insert generic &/OR witty tagline here> This comment was edited by Stimpski on Nov 23 2004 11:08pm. |
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Orion - Retired 
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Politics and relgion..two of the most sentivitive subjects today imo. I agree with theschools decision, as that could deffinatly offent some people. I do think that schools should atlest acknowlege that their are many kinds of religions and that our history is rooted with religious backgrounds. I my self an antheist, am interested in what different religious groups believe and their heratge. But I will firmly stand my ground and fight to keep any specific religon overtaking school or any place it should not be. I my self did not say the 'under god' part in the pledge as JavaGuy did, its as simple as that just dont say it if you dont believe it. Unforunatly I was given a lot of 'heat' from some of my class mates as in a few classes a student was picked to lead the class in the pledge. _______________ When a Man lies he murder's some part of the world. These are the pale deaths which men misscall there lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home? -Cliff Burton Owner of Smily's 1900th comment | <Lady_Catherine> i love your sexy white socks! | (Lady_Catherine) i adore u! | (Lady_Catherine) onion (Lady_Catherine) i lub u |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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A little trivia: "Under God" was not in the original Pledge. It was added by and act of Congress in 1954, which I don't think was such hot idea, but it does acknowledge that religion is a strong part of our heritage. I'd rather not see it go. If I were a schoolteacher, I'd teach it with the politically incorrect phrase and simply tell the kids that they can say it or not and that their decision will be respected--and I would make absolutely certain that any student's decision, either way, is respected. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Duffman - Student 
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i dont mind ppl not saying it, but trying to remove it.............*face turns red* _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
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JavaGuy - Student
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I was an atheist for years and found it no trouble at all to say the Pledge. I just didn't say the words "under God." The Pledge is one of those things that has a non-religious meaning shared by everyone and, for some, religious meanings that not everybody shares. It seems to me that someone who does not share in the religious part can and should still participate, just don't say the part about God if you don't believe it. I'll certainly respect that--it's what I did myself for years. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Duffman - Student
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well smily, there are sevral lawsuits trying to get that out of the pledge, and there are many places (schools, sporting events, ect) that omit that line from the pledge because it is the politicaly correct thing to do. it makes me sick. _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
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JavaGuy - Student
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The Constitution does not say "separation of Church and state" anywhere, nor does it say that the church should have no influence in the government. What it does say (from memory, not exact quotes unless it's my lucky day): 1. Congress shall make no law with respect to the establishment of a religion (i.e. no creating an official state religion, nor giving any religion special privileges, which amounts to the same thing), and 2. ...nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Those are very specific prohibitions, and I take them very seriously, but read what they actually say. The phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the Constition. Where does it come from? It comes from a letter written by one of my favorite radicals, Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to some religious folks who were afraid that the government was going to prohibit their religious exercises. He told them to be thankful that we have this "wall of separation between church and state," meaning the church was protected from the state. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that churches cannot take a public stand on matters of public policy. The Constitution also says that nobody can be required to pass a "religious test" in order to hold public office or serve in an official position. This means a state can't pass a law saying only Christians can serve in the legislature, but it also means, for example, that the Senate Judiciary Committee is not supposed to question nominees about their religous beliefs (and reject them on the basis thereof, as they have done in recent years). Religious indoctrination in public schools is a bad thing because it does establish a state religion. Everybody is forced to pay taxes to underwrite these schools, and when a teacher, with a captive audience and on the dime of captive taxpayers, turns a classroom into a place of religious indoctrination, that's a state religion if ever there was one. So no, the schools should not be allowed to endorse any religion. While we don't get to decide what every dollar of our tax money is spent on, and I'm certainly not happy with everything my taxes are spent on, it is unconsciounable to make an atheist pay for religion--that would amount to a state religion. But when school children are suspended for wearing the cross, the Constitution's second prohibition has been breached, for a student's right to practice his own religion is trampled. That's just wrong. When we say that deeply religious people shouldn't hold high office, that strikes me as little different from saying atheists shouldn't be allowed to hold high office. A leader should be enlightened by his conscience. And even sillier is when any reference to the Pilgrims' religious beliefs is struck from history lessons. No, the school should not indoctrinate the kids to believe those religious beliefs are right, but that they had those beliefs and that they were the whole reason for their journey is key to understanding the history. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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LOL *clears throat* I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation, under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. How can we ignore the religious background of our country when its right in the pledge of allegiance? _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Duffman - Student 
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it does say that the chuch should not have any influance in the government. Mainly due to how much the catholic chuch had its hands in soooo many governments over the years. but having them have lawsuits over re-writing all the documents that have religious sentaments on them that deal with the government is stupid. Most of the people that migrated to this country/contanent did so to free themselves from religious persecution. Religion is part of our histroy and to deny that just because there are some people that dont like religion in any form, while the majority of americans ARE religious in some fasion, is just stupid. It is thier right to question how the government is run, and is percetly fine with me. Just because some religious phrase is on a document, doesnt mean that the current government officals are in the sway of some religious fanatic. It is our history. Not our present. _______________ *Sigh* Married to Mirael D'kana, Former master to Shangri Stomwind and Crash D'Kana, Owner of Gil-Galad's 100th post, Khâ D'Kana's 700th post, and friend to just about everyone |
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SilkMonkey - Distributor of Cold Ones 
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I'm pretty sure it DOESN'T say it in the constitution. Unless my old Gov't teacher is wrong... _______________ |-HK-47 -SilkMonkey: You are receiving a warning for being_too_sexy. If you do not stop, action will be taken against you.|| (11:13:43) � Virtue dances for Silk ||Smiling owner of Smilykrazy's 6000th comment =) ||Odan Wei's Proud Big Brother|| Janus is my official TaruTaru Cuddly Animal Type Person. ||(@Virtue) Or you could just be a man and set fire to your genitals.....you won't fall asleep for days after that.......trust me.||Thomas Skywalker er for sexy for sitt eget beste!!!!| Not changing sig until the JA loosens up. (Started: Aug 31, 2005) |
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