| Six months in prison for drawing cartoon | |
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JavaGuy - Student  |
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1253726.html The comic book does sound deliberately offensive, but jailing the guy is a lot more offensive to me. My country owes Greece an enormous debt for its ideal of Democracy, a radical idea coined by the Greeks. Maybe we can give something back in return: The ideals of free speech and religious freedom. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Im not gonna ready too deeply into this thread but, I'm an artist. And I couldnt imagine someone telling me that I wasn't aloud to creat certain pictures. I'd tell em to stick it, but I wouldn't say it quite so nice. Two comments: 1. If looking at something like that offends you, well...ahhh......DONT LOOK AT IT! 2. I'm glad to live in a free country. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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JavaGuy - Student 
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If an artist wants to make crap, he can do it without my money. He can probably even find someone to pay him for it. Government subsidized art is not free expression. Whoever's in power subsidizes those who push their own politial or social agenda and refuse to subsidize those with dissenting views--yet those with dissenting views must still pay taxes to subsidize what they disagree with, even as they themselves are shut out. Such subsidies do not promote free expression; they stifle it. The American taxpayer is forced to spend outrageous sums to pay for stuff like "Piss Christ," and every dollar that is taken from a taxpayer for something like that is a dollar that he cannot spend on a Shakespeare play or a rock concert, things that he actually wants to see. Again, free expression stifled by subsidies. Did Mel Gibson need a subsidy to make money from The Passion? Did Michael Moore need a subsidy to make money from Farhenheit 9/11? These guys come from opposite ends of the political spectrum, yet somehow the lack of subsidy does not silence their voices. Government art subsidies are founded on the paternalistic, Big Brother notion that ordinary people are too stupid to decide what art to spend their own money on. Left to their own devices, taxpayers will go to a syphony or a rock concert, or to see actual representational art or buy tickets to The Passion. Government elites are eager to show us the error of our ways, so they take from our pockets the money we would spend on these worthy ventures and use it to subsidize vomit displays and anti-American bile and try to pass it off as profound art. Again, if you want to see a vomit display, I salute your freedom of expression, but don't ask me to pay for it. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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lasarus - Student 
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The difference, as I see it, between subsidy and buying culture piece by piece, is that with piecewise buying, the artist gets paid for what another person thinks is good, whereas with subsidy the artist gets paid to do what she thinks is good. The point of art that tends to be crap is that its made by a person that didn't need to concern herself with what's popular. Maybe the point of the whole thing is that it's supposed to be crap just for the sake of debate? Of course this system can be used to only support pepole that agree with whoever is currently in power. For the system to work, it takes someone that has the guts to say "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I support your right to say it". But provided that a govenment actually is in favour of the democratic principles it is said to be built on, I think that I'll just agree to disagree, if that is OK with you? _______________ The triangular wheel was an improvement over the square one: There was one less bump. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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I'm glad you're in favor of supporting the arts, but with all due respect, you've got it backwards. Everybody does say the same thing when government controls art. Art in the private sector means a vigorous community of competing ideas. Government "art" tends to be crap. Yes, they do support a few good things like the Metropolitan Opera so they have something to point to when people ask what they're spending our tax dollars on, but that's just for show. Mostly they subsidize crap that nobody would voluntarily pay for. (And BTW, supporting the Metrolpolitan Opera is a blatant welfare program for the rich--the Met gets less than 1% of its money from the government and could easily give up that subsidy with a miniscule increase in the price of tickets it sells to its limousine-riding clientel. Nothing against the rich, mind you, but let them pay for their own opera.) And no, the government does not have an obligation to "support," i.e. control, the arts. Artists have done art for its own sake for milenia. Some have been supported by private sponsors, others have supported themselves, and others have been good enough at what they do to make a living at it. The difference between art in the private sector and government sponsored art is that in the private sector people voluntarily pay for art that they like, while government subsidized art is necessarily for art that nobody what voluntarily pay for (otherwise they would, negating the necessity of the subsidy). Government "art" simply pushes the political/social agenda of whoever's in power. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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lasarus - Student
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Quote: Just because the taxpayers aren't forced to pay for a book, movie or awful "art" display doesn't mean it is censored. But doesn't the government have an obligation to support art and culture and the practitioners thereof to keep cultural expressions from being comersialized? To stop artists from being dependant on anyone who might then have the power to censor them? To uphold those who uphold the freedom of thought and speech? In a sense, freedom of speech would be worth nothing if everybody said the same thing. _______________ The triangular wheel was an improvement over the square one: There was one less bump. |
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Jade Jedi - Retired 
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I guess he wont be going to Greece anytime soon lol. _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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God save us from religion...  _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
That's complete BS. You can't piss all over freedom of speech like that. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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I would hate to be a Christian judge having to deal with that case. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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That's how they gave us Democracy...through their writings. I'd also like to see my own country spread free speech by example. We have freer speech here than pretty much any place in the world with the exception of Antarctica, but we could still do a lot better. Two things I wish more Americans understood about free speech: Firstly, there's a difference between government censorship and social censure. When the government stops you from speaking/writing, that's wrong because the government uses force. If people disapprove of what you say, you're still free to say it--freedom of speech/press does not grant you some "right" to have anyone agree or even pay attention, nor to be liked by anyone if you choose to say/print things people find repugnant. We have a long tradition of fighting for the right of people to say things we don't necessarily agree with, but just because I support a neo-nazi's Constitutional right to express his repulsive beliefs doesn't mean I don't think he should be socially ostracized for them. Secondly, there's a difference between free speech and subsidized speech, and refusing to force taxpayers to pay for something is not censorship. Almost every day I read a story about how the government is using my tax dollars to pay for the propagation of ideas most taxpayers find repugnant, and when lawmakers introduce a measure to stop the subsidy the journalists speak of it being "censored." Well, no. Just because the taxpayers aren't forced to pay for a book, movie or awful "art" display doesn't mean it is censored. Your right to free press means that if you have a printer you can use it, not that someone else must be forced to buy you a printer. Free to express my beliefs necessarily means the freedom from being forced to express beliefs contrary to my own or to pay for the printing of such stuff. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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lasarus - Student
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Hey! thats imposing on the freedom of speech that is,  and what's worse, since they can't shut the author up, they ban the books, and that's imposing on the freedom to listen (for everybody in greece)...I totally agree to send freedom of speech and religion to greece, but how are we to do it? Post them a letter? _______________ The triangular wheel was an improvement over the square one: There was one less bump. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
The link doesn't seem to work for me, right now.. |
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