| Dutch Voters Reject EU Constitution | |
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Sared - Retired  |
AMSTERDAM - Dutch voters overwhelmingly rejected the European Union constitution Wednesday, the prime minister said, in what could be a knockout blow for the charter roundly defeated just days ago by France. Less than an hour after the polls closed, Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende conceded defeat in his campaign to ratify the constitution and said the government would respect the results of the overwhelmingly "no" vote on the referendum. Could I get some of our dutch members to share a little insight on this? _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Jeramia Adept - Student 
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Hey man, i feel ya, and all i got to say is do what you feel is the right thing to do _______________ The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is. Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance 
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I voted 'no', for several reasons. First off, like JavaGuy already pointed out, I'm Dutch first, European second. I don't identify with members of the other countries in Europe the way Americans do with 'fellow Americans'. The cultures here are much more diverse, and building a bridge for that will take some time. Second, I don't agree with everything specified in the constitution, and some of the disadvantadges outweigh the advantadges. If they come up with something more respectful to our current culture and law system, I'll take another look. Third, though I'm not supposed to be motivated by this, and I'm ashamed to say I am - our current government has been pushing us to vote "yes" ever since they asked us the question, and their condescending behaviour can be summarized as such: Dutch Government: We made a constitution for Europe. And even better, we're gonna allow you to vote! What's it gonna be, yes or no? The Dutch: Let me think... Dutch Government: Vote yes. The Dutch: Hey man, I'm thinking. Dutch Government: Vote yes. The Dutch: What if I vote no? Dutch Government: This will be a disaster for the Netherlands. We'll be put in a position where we can't deal with the rest of Europe properly. We'll be powerless. Powerless. The Dutch: Wow. Dutch Government: Yeah. The Dutch: So err, we gotta vote yes? Dutch Government: Yeah, just sign here. On the other hand, I'm glad they were so busy campaigning - otherwise people wouldn't have cared. A pretty large part of our population voted, and I consider that a good thing.  |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote: For Norway, it would be VERY bad economically to join the EU because we would get anal-raped resource wise. Most of the Norwegian economy depends on fish and oil/gas, which Brussels wouldn't mind having their share of. Besides, travelling from one European country to another would be much easier, increasing air plane traffic, which plays a very big role in contaminating the planet. Boo! I should say people are more likely to go by car, with the open borders. And yeah, segregation up till the 60s > a few individuals. PS, open borders are teh sex. |
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Jeramia Adept - Student 
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wait friends, no need to get into a quarril over this, ok its as simple as this, its their countries desicion, not yours. --------------------- in fact i America was just founded not on blood, but rather on the seperation from England, because america wasnt represented in england, and unfair taxation, plus more, if you want to find out more talk to hannibal, hes a smart cookie. _______________ The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is. Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius This comment was edited by Jeramia Adept on Jun 10 2005 11:00pm. |
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Buzz - Student 
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You may not have been serious Bail, but others actually are. I believe France's president is among them too. And yes world = Europe in this case. I could have said old world too if I really wanted. And the US you could say is founded with blood true. It has not however had leaders bent on conquest, genocide, and mass murder. So not quite pot calling the kettle black. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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Oh come on. I was merely kidding. The EU is no better than the US, and I know this. Quote: And no offense to you guys but I don't really want the world that has spawned, Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin to be united into one group. the world = EU in this case or something? as they're all from the EU? (well, members of the EU that is) Well, I don't know much (hardly anything) about the US, but isn't the US also founded on blood? That's the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Buzz - Student
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Yeah America's goal is to conquer the world and to subject every living person to the evils of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What's the deal with having the goal of providing opposition to the US. Since the majority of Europe are supposed to be allies with the US. And no offense to you guys but I don't really want the world that has spawned, Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin to be united into one group. Europe had world domination. It was the colonial ages. Its over, deal with it. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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Quote: Or would you like the Americans calling the shots on everything? Which would surely happen if the EU did not exist. thats paranioa. and i would rather that than people in brussels doing so. _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge  Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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why does everyone dislike brussels? I know, it's the main seat of the EU ... Oh btw, the EU is not just about trade. It's also about world domination... Or would you like the Americans calling the shots on everything? Which would surely happen if the EU did not exist. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
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Thomasooo - Student 
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The same currency all over Europe would be VERY convenient, seeing how many Europeans travel regularly within the continent. For Norway, it would be VERY bad economically to join the EU because we would get anal-raped resource wise. Most of the Norwegian economy depends on fish and oil/gas, which Brussels wouldn't mind having their share of. Besides, travelling from one European country to another would be much easier, increasing air plane traffic, which plays a very big role in contaminating the planet. Boo! _______________ In the navy and LOVING it!
Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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i was talking about the UK. personally im not happy about: 1) decisions about national policy : The EU would get sole legal power to decide policy as regards trade tariffs and quotas, monetary policy for the eurozone, competition rules for the internal market, fisheries conservation and trade agreements with other countries. The EU's exclusive power to sign international treaties with other States in these areas would be extended to cover international agreements arising from other Union policies. This deprives Member States of most of their present treatymaking powers. 2) national security issues The Constitution would give the new Union the power to 'define and implement' a common foreign and security policy which would 'cover all areas of foreign policy' and which Member States would be required to "actively and unreservedly support ... in a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity'. It would impose on Member States a new obligation to comply with the Union's actions in foreign policy, in contrast to the existing treaty requirement to support these. 3) currency Article I-8 provides that 'The currency of the Union shall be the euro.' This is so even though at present 13 of the 25 Member States still retain their national currencies and the Constitution formally enshrines the legal opt-outs of Britain and Denmark from the single currency. The Constitution refers to non-euro countries as '"Member States with a derogation'. those are my main objections, especially with the quality of the uk's current leadership, it is very unlikely our intrests will be adaquately supported in a united europe. if there is no hidden agenda, and only free trade is wanted. it can already be accomplished via treatys and agreements. many of the actions proposed go far beyond removing trade barriers _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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Quote: i prefer control of where i live in the hands of people who actually live there of course, the Netherlands have no right to say anything when a decision is being made about them, I see ... has the EU limited you or your country in any way? You can still smoke marihuana  Sure, a different coin, but that only made things easier ... _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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solitude - Jedi Council
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i prefer control of where i live in the hands of people who actually live there _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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Quote: yay, 'no' to europe can only be a good thing what's wrong with Europe?  _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student 
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Quote: Java, what you said is right, except the last thing. The normal customs of the country would be enforced in the new law. That would mean that bull fighting in Spain would be allowed, and the use of marihuana in Holland too. The law would have given the full right on those things to the government. I myself voted no, because I think that the new law doesn't make enough work on protecting the weak and making sure that the biggest countries don't get the full power. Further, our prime minister is a big fat loser and it's a shame he represents our people. /sign This comment was edited by D@RtHM@UL on Jun 03 2005 03:45pm. |
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solitude - Jedi Council
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thee fact is that european countries dont wish to be ruled by a commitee in brussels who can make decisions for their own gain without feeling the consequences. i do not think that comparing soverign countries and the EU to states in America is a valid comparison _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Nero - Student 
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Main reason is generally considered to be the lack of information about it. I'm from Holland myself and that's just the way most people feel. They just didn't want to aprove something they didn't know everything about. _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? This comment was edited by Nero on Jun 03 2005 03:07pm. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Some have made the argument that the Articles of Confederation were scrapped precisely because they did work, giving the states the independence that those who sought greater power didn't want them to have. I don't want to see a day when I'm an Ohioan first and an American second, but the Federal government has exceeded its Constitutional powers by such a huge margin that it's ridiculous. The Federal government should not decide, for example, what the maximum speed limit is in Ohio. Speed limits are for the states to decide--yet in the past, the Federal government has withheld highway funding from states that don't set speed limits the way we're told to set them. Not getting Federal funding for highways would be fine with me if the money grew on trees and were given to us by the Federal government, but people in Ohio pay taxes to create that funding, and then we only get it back if we kowtow to the Federal government's demands. (Fortunately, that particular bit of lunacy has gone away--for the moment--but much other lunacy remains.) The European states would have seen similar treatment and worse if they had agreed to forfeit a portion of their sovereignty to some centralized European government. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Buzz - Student
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I've heard a valid point as to why people are voting "no" on this. They don't see themselves as Europeans first. They see themselves as French, German, Dutch, etc, first and secondly European. And they don't want to be answerable to that higher power over their state government. They're the opposite of people in the U.S. We tend to see ourselves as Americans first, and state residents second. This is a sentiment that took a very long time to arrive at. What I think Kueller is looking at is something like the Articles of Confederation that the 13 colonies tried using before the U.S. Constitution. In that document the individual states had more power than the federal government. The Articles didn't work and a stronger federal government was implemented with the Constitution. And if you don't think a European Fed. can influence something that is supposed to be state controlled, you need look no further again than the U.S. There is no federal legal intoxication limit in the US. But the federal government told the state governments to make it 0.08 or they will lose federal funding for various things. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Menaxia - Student 
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And ppl thought the UK was going to cause the biggest stink. Over here it's mainly seen as a national identity issue, as well as keeping control over themselves. In short, none of us want to be ruled by Brussels. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Kueller, that's not really true except in theory. The EU Constitution would give the centralized European state tremendous power to exert pressure on states whose domestic laws did not conform to its wishes. Consider how much pressure they already try to exert on the United States to change some of our laws, and that's a nation that they have little real power to pressure. Now imagine the same people, holding the power to wreck the Dutch economy if they want, "suggesting" that you change your drug laws--still think your country would retain it's sovereignty? I don't think so. I think you'd be governed by people in other countries who don't have to live with the consequences of decisions they make for you. You'd be sovereign in name only. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Henkes - Student 
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I think a lot of people voted no just as a protest... I mean I've heard people saying they voted no solely for the reason they didn't like the euro... *shrug* _______________ Get on your feet and do the Funky Alfonzo! |
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Kueller - Student 
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Java, what you said is right, except the last thing. The normal customs of the country would be enforced in the new law. That would mean that bull fighting in Spain would be allowed, and the use of marihuana in Holland too. The law would have given the full right on those things to the government. I myself voted no, because I think that the new law doesn't make enough work on protecting the weak and making sure that the biggest countries don't get the full power. Further, our prime minister is a big fat loser and it's a shame he represents our people. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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Aron - Retired 
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huh? what? * shrug * |
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JavaGuy - Student
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It was a "consultative" vote, meaning the results are not binding but that the government wanted to know the people's wishes. Any politician who wants to lose very, very badly in the next election can continue to push for ratification. I think it failed because the people knew all too well what is in the document. Under the EU Constitution, every state would lose a lot of its sovereignty; people would be governed by people in other countries. The Dutch, in particular, would pay more per capita into the EU coffer than anyone else but because of the size of the country would have little voice in EU policy. They'd be carrying everyone else's weight and get little if any consideration for it. The Dutch also have a number of libertarian social policies, including tolerance towards marijuana and prostitition, that would be jeopardized if the Dutch gave up a huge chunk of their sovereignty. Note: I'm not saying these things should be legal or tolerated or whatever, just that the Dutch ought to decide for themselves whether the Dutch are allowed to smoke dope--it's their country. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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