Innocent man shot dead in London | |
Eica - Student ![]() |
Clikeh Just heard about this, didn't see a thread about it. Even in times like this the British police are mantaining their traditional incompetency. _______________ Former padawan of RoseRed |
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CuZzA - Student ![]() |
I couldn't have explained it any better JG ![]() _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
JamesF1 - Student ![]() |
Quote: the police overreacted though. Wrong, if he had been carrying a bomb, and he'd have blown it up, he could have killed hundreds. Its one man's life against hundreds - they certainly did not over-react. Quote: Everybody just forget about "shooting him in the leg" or shooting him in the arm or picking any particular part of the body. That's not how it works. Yes, in the movies the hero shoots the gun out of somebody's hand to disarm him without hurting him. Guess what? That doesn't happen in real life. A handgun is hard enough to use, a moving target makes it trickier still, and in a tense and potentially violent situation in real life you just shoot the guy--aim for the torso and hope you hit him somewhere. Go to a gun club and do some pistol shooting before you go spouting off about where exactly a cop is supposed to shoot a moving target. It just does not happen like it does in the movies. I know of one real instance of a cop shooting a gun out of somebody's hand. It was videotaped, and this was the situation: The guy had a pistol and was sitting in a chair in the middle of a road threatening to kill himself. The cops didn't want to kill him because he was mostly a danger to himself, but he was also a potential danger to others. A police sniper with many years experience (not just any cop) was hidden with a scoped rifle (not a pistol) some distance away. The guy was sitting in a chair and would ocassionally get up and sit down again. The sniper studied the guy's movements for about ten minutes to try to anticipate how he would move, then at last, very carefully, took his shot and took the gun right out of his hand. When they took him into custody, the guy said to the sniper, "That was a hell of a shot." That is how it happens in real life. If it's a furious chase, a running target who is probably dangerous, and scared cops with pistols trying to protect the civilian population, they just shoot and pray to God they hit the S.O.B. because if they don't, he might really be in his way to blow up a train. Top quality post that. _______________ Website |
JavaGuy - Student ![]() |
Everybody just forget about "shooting him in the leg" or shooting him in the arm or picking any particular part of the body. That's not how it works. Yes, in the movies the hero shoots the gun out of somebody's hand to disarm him without hurting him. Guess what? That doesn't happen in real life. A handgun is hard enough to use, a moving target makes it trickier still, and in a tense and potentially violent situation in real life you just shoot the guy--aim for the torso and hope you hit him somewhere. Go to a gun club and do some pistol shooting before you go spouting off about where exactly a cop is supposed to shoot a moving target. It just does not happen like it does in the movies. I know of one real instance of a cop shooting a gun out of somebody's hand. It was videotaped, and this was the situation: The guy had a pistol and was sitting in a chair in the middle of a road threatening to kill himself. The cops didn't want to kill him because he was mostly a danger to himself, but he was also a potential danger to others. A police sniper with many years experience (not just any cop) was hidden with a scoped rifle (not a pistol) some distance away. The guy was sitting in a chair and would ocassionally get up and sit down again. The sniper studied the guy's movements for about ten minutes to try to anticipate how he would move, then at last, very carefully, took his shot and took the gun right out of his hand. When they took him into custody, the guy said to the sniper, "That was a hell of a shot." That is how it happens in real life. If it's a furious chase, a running target who is probably dangerous, and scared cops with pistols trying to protect the civilian population, they just shoot and pray to God they hit the S.O.B. because if they don't, he might really be in his way to blow up a train. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
Eica - Student ![]() |
Maybe the expired visa was the reason he ran from the police ![]() _______________ Former padawan of RoseRed |
Tyrant - Ex-Student ![]() |
Quote:
Quote: You got a point Ronald whoa whoa...u guys got the wrong end of the stick...He ran through security when 5 ARMED police officers told him to stop...over and over again. WTF are u supposed to do if he's heading for a train? jesus christ... Its true, why risk him blowing up a train full of people? I mean if your innocent why run through aload of police officers??? ![]() This comment was edited by Tyrant on Jul 27 2005 07:48am. |
Demo Strike - Student ![]() |
Quote: whoa whoa...u guys got the wrong end of the stick...He ran through security when 5 ARMED police officers told him to stop...over and over again. WTF are u supposed to do if he's heading for a train? jesus christ... Its true, why risk him blowing up a train full of people? I mean if your innocent why run through aload of police officers??? This comment was edited by Demo Strike on Jul 27 2005 02:29am. |
Ulic |retired| - Student ![]() |
I mean that the increasing sense of insecurity in Europe caused by an increasing threat of terrorism causes governments to try to improve security by naturally curbing certain rights like privacy. Although necessary we must be carefull not to be too eager to lose rights, since it takes longer to get rights back than it takes to lose them. And of course you should obey to the order STOP, POLICE, but the police must be able to prove it's police. Still, everyone should be carefull now the entire city is nervous. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam This comment was edited by Ulic |retired| on Jul 26 2005 08:08pm. |
Buzz - Student ![]() |
Quote: The question is, were the policemen recognisable as policemen? I heard his appartment was under surveillance by officers under cover. If the unfortunate man couldn't know that all those big aggressive men running at him were policemen it's understandable he ran. I think this is another example of the inevitable consequences the war on terror has caused on our law enforcement. We must be carefull not to trade too much freedom for safety. Freedom for safety in Brittain? The government already has Closed Circuit TV in many public places. This is Big Brother watching you, and something many Americans would see as a sacrifice of freedom. Shooting and killing someone who runs when they are shouting "Stop Police" is not a sacrifrice of freedom, just like checking more of the people who look like the terrorists over 80 year old grandmothers is racism. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
SaZ - Student ![]() |
agreed. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
Tido - Student ![]() |
Quote: This is the same instance as that idiot italian reporter's car trying to speed through the marine blockade in Iraq where some people ended up getting shot. If the police try to stop you and check you, you 1) you don't try to run from them, that immediately assumes guilt 2) you don't make threatening gestures towards them, that assumes you have the means to cause harm and they are authorized to protect themselves and civilians around them against you. This guy was seen as a potential suicide bomber the moment he tried to run from police. He was running towards a train. I also understand he was wearing a bulky coat in the middle of July. Quick decision time, you have a potential suicide bomber running towards a train full of people. He may have a detonator he can easily trigger. What do you do? Let him get to the train and detonate it, or kill him so he is the only death and unable to kill anyone else? You know the phrase "better safe than sorry" killing this guy was the safe option and a lot better than the sorry option. The only way to guarrantee that he was dead was a head shot anything else and he might have lived long enough to trigger any explosive. And he was the one at fault because if he hadn't run he would not have been killed. As for any cries about racial profiling or racism in the fact that this guy fits the description of all but one of the previous terrorists, big freakin' deal. Guess what he fits the description. He's potentially a threat. If all the other bombers had been blond haired blue eyed men wearing lederhosen, and the police were about to check a blond haired blue eyed guy wearing lederhosen and he took off running wouldn't you want them to shoot him before he kills anyone? If you were a blond haired blue eyed guy wearing lederhosen would you really get upset that they checked you out and proved you weren't a threat? Bingo. Same to Kensei and Javaguy. Welcome to the real world, fellas. This comment was edited by Tido on Jul 26 2005 02:15pm. |
JamesF1 - Student ![]() |
I don't really feel sorry for the guy - if someone says to you "STOP POLICE!" then you stop - you don't start running. If you're running from the police (whether plain-clothes or not, they did say to stop), chances are you have SOMETHING to hide. Its an unfortunate event, but its not like saying they shot him in cold blood. They had reason to believe he was a terrorist - not many people run away from the police with a rucksack on their back, and dive onto a train... _______________ Website |
Ulic |retired| - Student ![]() |
The question is, were the policemen recognisable as policemen? I heard his appartment was under surveillance by officers under cover. If the unfortunate man couldn't know that all those big aggressive men running at him were policemen it's understandable he ran. I think this is another example of the inevitable consequences the war on terror has caused on our law enforcement. We must be carefull not to trade too much freedom for safety. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
JavaGuy - Student ![]() |
My understanding of the events: He emerged from a house that law enforcement had under surveilance due to terrorist activity. He had a heavy jacket on...in hot weather. When the police ordered him to stop he ran to the subway (they're understandably a little sensitive about suspected terrorists hiding stuff in their jackets running into the subway right now). He jumped the turnstile to get in. Oh yeah, poor innocent victim. The cops just ganged up on him for no reason, right? It's so easy to call them morons because we know he was "innocent." If he had turned out to be carrying a bomb and the cops had let him go, we would likewise have the luxury of dumping all over the cops because they let a terrorist kill a bunch of people. It's easy when we don't have to make the decision: If it turns out wrong, we can say the cops were morons. If it turns out right, it won't be that big a headline anyway. I'm not sure the investigation is finished on this one either. He didn't have a bomb in his jacket, no, but there's a lot about his behavior that begs for explanation. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
Buzz - Student ![]() |
Quote: They shot him 8 times comon he would have been dead at like 1 and in the head too. And I would agree what he did was stuiped he should have stoped, maybe he was running for a train. But 8 times?! How many cops were there? How many hit him before he was on the ground? How many total shots were fired? Were all shots to the head direct or were some grazed? You know a many once had a railroad spike shoot through his head completely, and he lived through it. It doesn't matter if it was 8 80 or 1 bullet in his head. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
Phantom - Student ![]() |
They shot him 8 times comon he would have been dead at like 1 and in the head too. And I would agree what he did was stuiped he should have stoped, maybe he was running for a train. But 8 times?! _______________ -Phantom Ex-Master to Threat. Proud owner of Sazabi's 1500th comment! And Threats 50th comment "Insanity: a perfect rational adjustment to an insane world" |
Raziel Anjelis - Student ![]() |
Tell you what, lets give you a gun and body armour and put you in exactly the same situation, minus only the knowledge that he is innocent. See how you empathise in their shoes. Think about it. Like buzz said, you see a guy in a padded jacket in July, matching terrorist descriptions and he ran, That is exactly what they think a terrorist would do? A padded jacket in July? Come on. Most of us could barely wear a tshirt let alone a coat. You see a potential terrorist. You have a gun. He runs. The mind says 'Oh s**t, take him down before he detonates the bomb' You pull the trigger. _______________ Proud owner of El Vee For's 200th Comment, and Wicek's 2600th comment ![]() ![]() This comment was edited by Raziel Anjelis on Jul 25 2005 11:40pm. |
Buzz - Student ![]() |
This is the same instance as that idiot italian reporter's car trying to speed through the marine blockade in Iraq where some people ended up getting shot. If the police try to stop you and check you, you 1) you don't try to run from them, that immediately assumes guilt 2) you don't make threatening gestures towards them, that assumes you have the means to cause harm and they are authorized to protect themselves and civilians around them against you. This guy was seen as a potential suicide bomber the moment he tried to run from police. He was running towards a train. I also understand he was wearing a bulky coat in the middle of July. Quick decision time, you have a potential suicide bomber running towards a train full of people. He may have a detonator he can easily trigger. What do you do? Let him get to the train and detonate it, or kill him so he is the only death and unable to kill anyone else? You know the phrase "better safe than sorry" killing this guy was the safe option and a lot better than the sorry option. The only way to guarrantee that he was dead was a head shot anything else and he might have lived long enough to trigger any explosive. And he was the one at fault because if he hadn't run he would not have been killed. As for any cries about racial profiling or racism in the fact that this guy fits the description of all but one of the previous terrorists, big freakin' deal. Guess what he fits the description. He's potentially a threat. If all the other bombers had been blond haired blue eyed men wearing lederhosen, and the police were about to check a blond haired blue eyed guy wearing lederhosen and he took off running wouldn't you want them to shoot him before he kills anyone? If you were a blond haired blue eyed guy wearing lederhosen would you really get upset that they checked you out and proved you weren't a threat? _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
Raziel Anjelis - Student ![]() |
They aren't incompetent. If they were, a gang would have robbed your house and murdered your family, and the police would have gone 'Rawr?' These guys are responsible for keeping paedophiles and rapists from your front door. They deserve a little respect. _______________ Proud owner of El Vee For's 200th Comment, and Wicek's 2600th comment ![]() ![]() This comment was edited by Raziel Anjelis on Jul 25 2005 11:32pm. |
Jacen Aratan - Student |
I'm just saying, they made an honest mistake... not like he encouraged diplomacy.. |
solitude - Jedi Council ![]() |
Quote: Yeah, right after the world has gone into high alert due to terror once again, LET'S RUN AT THE TRAIN, AWAY FROM THE POLICE, BECAUSE SURELY, THAT'S WHAT ANY INNOCENT WOULD DO. He had an expired visa anyways. exactly. the mans own stupidity was a latge contributing factor to his death. _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge ![]() Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student |
Quote: He had an expired visa anyways. As long as he didn't get shot for that ![]() And well, I agree, his actions were stupid. I also think his death is stupid. Didn't say anything about the police in Great Britain ![]() _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
Jacen Aratan - Student |
Yeah, right after the world has gone into high alert due to terror once again, LET'S RUN AT THE TRAIN, AWAY FROM THE POLICE, BECAUSE SURELY, THAT'S WHAT ANY INNOCENT WOULD DO. He had an expired visa anyways. |
CuZzA - Student ![]() |
lmao ![]() _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student |
Quote: well what if it was a detonated bomb eh? the only reason he COULD have been running towards the train was because he wanted to blow himself up...so if they had just shot him so he wouldn't be able to move, then he could still detonate the explosives...if there were any then shoot him in the hands, that must give him enough pain for a second ![]() _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
CuZzA - Student ![]() |
well what if it was a detonated bomb eh? the only reason he COULD have been running towards the train was because he wanted to blow himself up...so if they had just shot him so he wouldn't be able to move, then he could still detonate the explosives...if there were any _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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