| Article on the 'Grey Jedi' philosophy | |
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Alex Dkana - Staff  |
Here is an article i found on the idea of a grey area between the dark and light.
Linky Various examples of this philosophy can be found throughout star wars media, such as Jolee Bindo and possibly the Exile in KotOR, Vergere in various books, and the new philosophy of the jedi in the current novels. Their are probably more examples i have not listed of course 
I hope some of you find this aspect of the force as interesting as i do 
If you do find all this interesting, or would merely like to argue why you don't think the Grey Philosophy works, or something, please post your views! -Quote taken from Wikipedia: Quote: Grey Jedi, although having completed the teachings of the Jedi Order, are Jedi that had either been exiled or had disassociated themselves from the Jedi Council. Consequently, they operate independently outside the Jedi Order. The Jedi Council typically sees them as misguided, though they have not necessarily succumbed to the dark side of the Force. They are the mavericks of the Jedi Order, and often stray closer to the dark side than most. Jolee Bindo, Revan, the Jedi Exile, Kreia, Jon Antilles, the Dark Woman, and Kyle Katarn are commonly identified as Grey Jedi, although Katarn returned to the Light Side. In Knights of the Old Republic II, it is possible to acquire a Grey Jedi Robe. Grey Jedi usualy carry silver lightsabers but it is quite likely to see one carrying their lightsaber from their jedi times.
Link -And here is a much more detailed article taken from Wookieepedia: Quote: Gray Jedi was a term, sometimes used pejoratively, that described Jedi who were thought to operate independently and often outside the strictures of the High Council.
The term itself seems to date back as far as the Old Sith Wars. Certainly, during this time period, Gray Jedi themselves seem to have become associated even with a certain variety of robe. In the following millennia, the term continued to increase in usage, most likely due to the increasing trend towards centralization of power in the Order, and the increased prominence of the Jedi Council itself. Link The idea of a 'Grey Jedi' is a hotly contested topic with star wars fans, with many claiming that there is no grey area of the force, only Light and Dark; with others stating that the grey area in between does indeed exist, and examples such as Jolee Bindo, the Jedi Exile, and even the recent order of Imperial Knights proving their point. However there are many misunderstanding between the two groups point of views, and they often do not agree, one reason for this is that the term 'grey jedi' is too general, and given to, to many different groups. There was a lot of confusion at one point with people thinking a grey jedi, was the same as being a follower of the Potentium. This is far from the case, with many differences between the two. I shall be adding to this thread as i find suitable sources, and if i can think of anything else interesting to write. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana This post was edited by Alex Dkana on Dec 03 2006 02:10am. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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Quote: If I have to chose between Light or Dark Side, I'm all for Dark. But Grey has always had my favor, but it's never really an option. JK:JA SP has it a bit, since you can select Dark and Light Side powers, but it doesn't have that feeling cause your in a damn Jedi Academy. KotOR had it a lot more, which I loved. Getting KotOR II for Christmas I hope, else I'm going to buy it myself. And can't wait to see more of your stuff TCC, really loved reading and discussing about this one. Maybe you should write articles for the site, we could use some new stuff, since the last one was ages ago  thanks mate i'm glad you like this, i'll be sure to make some other interesting threads when i get the time I hope you enjoy KotOR2 when you get it, it has some bugs and the storyline finishes quite abruptly however overal its at least as good as the first game, and its got some nice 'grey' features in there (for a start your character is basically a grey jedi anyway) look out for the grey jedi robe thats lootable, its random and rare though  _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student 
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If I have to chose between Light or Dark Side, I'm all for Dark. But Grey has always had my favor, but it's never really an option. JK:JA SP has it a bit, since you can select Dark and Light Side powers, but it doesn't have that feeling cause your in a damn Jedi Academy. KotOR had it a lot more, which I loved. Getting KotOR II for Christmas I hope, else I'm going to buy it myself. And can't wait to see more of your stuff TCC, really loved reading and discussing about this one. Maybe you should write articles for the site, we could use some new stuff, since the last one was ages ago This comment was edited by D@RtHM@UL on Dec 13 2005 07:33pm. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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not many people in favour of the darkside at the moment i'll try and find some more things to write about _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student
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Quote:
Quote:
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Quote: Well, it is only natural for the "evil side" as we see it to justify what their doing by claiming they are on the right side. Remember when Palpatine addressed the Senate after his incident with Windu. He states that the attempt on his life has left him scarred, but he'll keep on leading and bring peace and justice throughout the galaxy. It's merely a way to justify their actions because there are people in this world who would have merely accepted what he just said and moved on without delving deeper into the matter. Hitler wanted to make the Perfect Race by killing off those that weren't "perfect," such as the Jews for instance according to him. You can pretend to put a valid and "altruistic" facade on the matter, but it simply boils down to being evil in the end. Of course, I do believe there are Gray Jedi out there. However, making the reference to Hitler stretches it a bit far imo. nice post, however my take on what Mini was saying was that he meant the German soldiers, i'm not sure myself you could say the entire nazi army was 'evil' good points though. Thank you DM glad you like the articles On a side note i have been wondering myself about something, in the book of episode 3 it explains how Yoda decides the Jedi need to change in order to beat what he views as the New Sith (Pappy and Anakin) and makes reference to the 'new jedi order' Luke Skywalker would found many years later. I wonder if Yoda saw that the Jedi had to embrace a view of the force similar to the Grey Jedi perspective (as has happened in the dark nest trilogy recently). In my opinion the reason Mace Windu could defeat Papaltine (at least in combat) was because he used Vaapad, which calls on your anger and thus can make it easy to fall to the darkside if you use it, so few have mastered Vaapad perhaps because they lack the control within themselves. It strikes me as quite a 'grey' type of combat. ok that was a lot of writing and i don't even know if it all made sense lol It makes perfect sense to me TCC. Quote: Wikipedia Article about the Vaapad Lightsaber Technique: The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Form VII is without question the rarest form, and only two Jedi have ever mastered Vaapad fully: Mace Windu and Depa Billaba. Sora Bulq helped Windu develop Vaapad, but Bulq and Mace's Padawan, Billaba, proved too weak to master the flow of the light and dark sides, and fell to the dark side. So yeah, Vaapad requires the use of both sides of the Force to properly use it, that's why hardly any Jedi could master it. It also means Vaapad is in some way a Grey Jedi Saber Style. 'The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms.' omg i've read that somewhere before >_> but i cant think where... if anyone knows could you please tell me. and i agree with chesh's comment that the new jedi knight game should definatly have proper styles  Wikipedia perhaps? |
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Mindrith Pride - Student 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Well, it is only natural for the "evil side" as we see it to justify what their doing by claiming they are on the right side. Remember when Palpatine addressed the Senate after his incident with Windu. He states that the attempt on his life has left him scarred, but he'll keep on leading and bring peace and justice throughout the galaxy. It's merely a way to justify their actions because there are people in this world who would have merely accepted what he just said and moved on without delving deeper into the matter. Hitler wanted to make the Perfect Race by killing off those that weren't "perfect," such as the Jews for instance according to him. You can pretend to put a valid and "altruistic" facade on the matter, but it simply boils down to being evil in the end. Of course, I do believe there are Gray Jedi out there. However, making the reference to Hitler stretches it a bit far imo. nice post, however my take on what Mini was saying was that he meant the German soldiers, i'm not sure myself you could say the entire nazi army was 'evil' good points though. Thank you DM glad you like the articles On a side note i have been wondering myself about something, in the book of episode 3 it explains how Yoda decides the Jedi need to change in order to beat what he views as the New Sith (Pappy and Anakin) and makes reference to the 'new jedi order' Luke Skywalker would found many years later. I wonder if Yoda saw that the Jedi had to embrace a view of the force similar to the Grey Jedi perspective (as has happened in the dark nest trilogy recently). In my opinion the reason Mace Windu could defeat Papaltine (at least in combat) was because he used Vaapad, which calls on your anger and thus can make it easy to fall to the darkside if you use it, so few have mastered Vaapad perhaps because they lack the control within themselves. It strikes me as quite a 'grey' type of combat. ok that was a lot of writing and i don't even know if it all made sense lol It makes perfect sense to me TCC. Quote: Wikipedia Article about the Vaapad Lightsaber Technique: The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Form VII is without question the rarest form, and only two Jedi have ever mastered Vaapad fully: Mace Windu and Depa Billaba. Sora Bulq helped Windu develop Vaapad, but Bulq and Mace's Padawan, Billaba, proved too weak to master the flow of the light and dark sides, and fell to the dark side. So yeah, Vaapad requires the use of both sides of the Force to properly use it, that's why hardly any Jedi could master it. It also means Vaapad is in some way a Grey Jedi Saber Style. 'The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms.' omg i've read that somewhere before >_> but i cant think where... if anyone knows could you please tell me. and i agree with chesh's comment that the new jedi knight game should definatly have proper styles _______________ [proud owner of talions 200th, 700th,1111th coment AND 1400th , DJK's 3001th coment! , saz's 400th coment! liso's 800th coment! Kitmitsu Aratan's 1200th comment! Cau's 100th comeent, Alexander's (aka CC) 210th, 888th and 2200th comments! Moriarti's 800th comment , Piccolo's 2000th comment! lirael's 505th comment , Quom Farlance's 120th comment, Alexander's 1800th comment , Eica's 1400th comment , Wicek's 3200th comment lady C's 999th comment, Echuu's 1100th comment, Takaru's 325th and 400th comment, Redeye's 200th comment picc's 3600th comment, Ostith's 50th comment, Elmo's 555th comment] |
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AvaloN - Student 
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yeah that sounds good ches. |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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We can only hope _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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its one of the main things i'd like to see implemented if they make a new jedi knight game, proper stances, like vaapad, ataru etc. instead of red, blue, yellow, i can't see why the next jedi knight game couldn't feature a better character system where you can focus it on a particular path (light,dark,grey) personally i'd like to see the series develop more as a star wars deus ex with a cool multiplayer instead of keeping the same formulae, we will always have these games to come back to after all; but thats a bit off topic. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student 
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Quote:
Quote: Well, it is only natural for the "evil side" as we see it to justify what their doing by claiming they are on the right side. Remember when Palpatine addressed the Senate after his incident with Windu. He states that the attempt on his life has left him scarred, but he'll keep on leading and bring peace and justice throughout the galaxy. It's merely a way to justify their actions because there are people in this world who would have merely accepted what he just said and moved on without delving deeper into the matter. Hitler wanted to make the Perfect Race by killing off those that weren't "perfect," such as the Jews for instance according to him. You can pretend to put a valid and "altruistic" facade on the matter, but it simply boils down to being evil in the end. Of course, I do believe there are Gray Jedi out there. However, making the reference to Hitler stretches it a bit far imo. nice post, however my take on what Mini was saying was that he meant the German soldiers, i'm not sure myself you could say the entire nazi army was 'evil' good points though. Thank you DM glad you like the articles On a side note i have been wondering myself about something, in the book of episode 3 it explains how Yoda decides the Jedi need to change in order to beat what he views as the New Sith (Pappy and Anakin) and makes reference to the 'new jedi order' Luke Skywalker would found many years later. I wonder if Yoda saw that the Jedi had to embrace a view of the force similar to the Grey Jedi perspective (as has happened in the dark nest trilogy recently). In my opinion the reason Mace Windu could defeat Papaltine (at least in combat) was because he used Vaapad, which calls on your anger and thus can make it easy to fall to the darkside if you use it, so few have mastered Vaapad perhaps because they lack the control within themselves. It strikes me as quite a 'grey' type of combat. ok that was a lot of writing and i don't even know if it all made sense lol It makes perfect sense to me TCC. Quote: Wikipedia Article about the Vaapad Lightsaber Technique: The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Form VII is without question the rarest form, and only two Jedi have ever mastered Vaapad fully: Mace Windu and Depa Billaba. Sora Bulq helped Windu develop Vaapad, but Bulq and Mace's Padawan, Billaba, proved too weak to master the flow of the light and dark sides, and fell to the dark side. So yeah, Vaapad requires the use of both sides of the Force to properly use it, that's why hardly any Jedi could master it. It also means Vaapad is in some way a Grey Jedi Saber Style. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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Quote: Well, it is only natural for the "evil side" as we see it to justify what their doing by claiming they are on the right side. Remember when Palpatine addressed the Senate after his incident with Windu. He states that the attempt on his life has left him scarred, but he'll keep on leading and bring peace and justice throughout the galaxy. It's merely a way to justify their actions because there are people in this world who would have merely accepted what he just said and moved on without delving deeper into the matter. Hitler wanted to make the Perfect Race by killing off those that weren't "perfect," such as the Jews for instance according to him. You can pretend to put a valid and "altruistic" facade on the matter, but it simply boils down to being evil in the end. Of course, I do believe there are Gray Jedi out there. However, making the reference to Hitler stretches it a bit far imo. nice post, however my take on what Mini was saying was that he meant the German soldiers, i'm not sure myself you could say the entire nazi army was 'evil' good points though. Thank you DM glad you like the articles On a side note i have been wondering myself about something, in the book of episode 3 it explains how Yoda decides the Jedi need to change in order to beat what he views as the New Sith (Pappy and Anakin) and makes reference to the 'new jedi order' Luke Skywalker would found many years later. I wonder if Yoda saw that the Jedi had to embrace a view of the force similar to the Grey Jedi perspective (as has happened in the dark nest trilogy recently). In my opinion the reason Mace Windu could defeat Papaltine (at least in combat) was because he used Vaapad, which calls on your anger and thus can make it easy to fall to the darkside if you use it, so few have mastered Vaapad perhaps because they lack the control within themselves. It strikes me as quite a 'grey' type of combat. ok that was a lot of writing and i don't even know if it all made sense lol Edit: hehe ok it makes sense ^_^ _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana This comment was edited by Alex Dkana on Dec 11 2005 04:32pm. |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student
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Quote: Well, it is only natural for the "evil side" as we see it to justify what their doing by claiming they are on the right side. Remember when Palpatine addressed the Senate after his incident with Windu. He states that the attempt on his life has left him scarred, but he'll keep on leading and bring peace and justice throughout the galaxy. It's merely a way to justify their actions because there are people in this world who would have merely accepted what he just said and moved on without delving deeper into the matter. Hitler wanted to make the Perfect Race by killing off those that weren't "perfect," such as the Jews for instance according to him. You can pretend to put a valid and "altruistic" facade on the matter, but it simply boils down to be evil in the end. Of course, I do believe there are Gray Jedi out there. However, making the reference to Hitler stretches it a bit far imo. Definitly, nice post man. |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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Well, it is only natural for the "evil side" as we see it to justify what their doing by claiming they are on the right side. Remember when Palpatine addressed the Senate after his incident with Windu. He states that the attempt on his life has left him scarred, but he'll keep on leading and bring peace and justice throughout the galaxy. It's merely a way to justify their actions because there are people in this world who would have merely accepted what he just said and moved on without delving deeper into the matter. Hitler wanted to make the Perfect Race by killing off those that weren't "perfect," such as the Jews for instance according to him. You can pretend to put a valid and "altruistic" facade on the matter, but it simply boils down to being evil in the end. Of course, I do believe there are Gray Jedi out there. However, making the reference to Hitler stretches it a bit far imo. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist This comment was edited by R2D2 on Dec 11 2005 03:53pm. |
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Mindrith Pride - Student
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yes i'm definatly a shade of grey i think that good is just a opinoun, for instance take world war 2, the allied forces figured they were the good guys but so did the Germans and their allies, so i ask who is EVER the 'good' guy? the article's veiw of "good is portrayed as order and evil as chaos" that sounds about right to me ^^ _______________ [proud owner of talions 200th, 700th,1111th coment AND 1400th , DJK's 3001th coment! , saz's 400th coment! liso's 800th coment! Kitmitsu Aratan's 1200th comment! Cau's 100th comeent, Alexander's (aka CC) 210th, 888th and 2200th comments! Moriarti's 800th comment , Piccolo's 2000th comment! lirael's 505th comment , Quom Farlance's 120th comment, Alexander's 1800th comment , Eica's 1400th comment , Wicek's 3200th comment lady C's 999th comment, Echuu's 1100th comment, Takaru's 325th and 400th comment, Redeye's 200th comment picc's 3600th comment, Ostith's 50th comment, Elmo's 555th comment] |
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Mindrith Pride - Student 
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sounds awesome ill take a look when i finish my coursewrok =D _______________ [proud owner of talions 200th, 700th,1111th coment AND 1400th , DJK's 3001th coment! , saz's 400th coment! liso's 800th coment! Kitmitsu Aratan's 1200th comment! Cau's 100th comeent, Alexander's (aka CC) 210th, 888th and 2200th comments! Moriarti's 800th comment , Piccolo's 2000th comment! lirael's 505th comment , Quom Farlance's 120th comment, Alexander's 1800th comment , Eica's 1400th comment , Wicek's 3200th comment lady C's 999th comment, Echuu's 1100th comment, Takaru's 325th and 400th comment, Redeye's 200th comment picc's 3600th comment, Ostith's 50th comment, Elmo's 555th comment] |
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D@RtHM@UL - Student
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Ver nice articles TCC, especially the wikipedia articles about the Force, Jedi's and the likes are nice to read! |
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SaZ - Student 
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30% in to light... but not more _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Senor Hat - Student 
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Quote: im light always will be... then why are you hold a red saber, eh? EH?!? clearly you have no idea what you're talking about _______________ I have beaten The Internet. The end guy was hard. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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Quote: Even this can go on into much further discussion. What shade of gray are you? There are many shades. i agree _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Even this can go on into much further discussion. What shade of gray are you? There are many shades. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Kenwan Obiobi - Student |
sos i havent had time to post yet, when i do, it'll prob be a long post lol... im light always will be... |
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AvaloN - Student 
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Good post Ches, I like this whole 'grey' Jedi thing. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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Quote: Yea, I haven't read through all of NJO to the point where Luke embraces that philosophy  its pretty much right at the end, and is shown in more detail in the new dark nest trilogy (they have a new academy on Ossus for example) _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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R2D2 - Staff
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Yea, I haven't read through all of NJO to the point where Luke embraces that philosophy _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Alex Dkana - Staff
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Quote: "They are also refered to as Shadow Jedi, believing that the ends justify the means." Sounds a lot like Kyp Durron to me Although, the name Shadow Jedi, is also associated to an Academy established to rival the Jedi Academy. Believe it's in the Young Jedi Knights series, or something like that. I believe there is a middle/grey zone in the Force. I can see Light Jedi going Grey, but it would be hard for a Dark Jedi to change. The Dark Side is so much more intoxicating. I have never read the young jedi knights series, but i know about the academy you mean from the NJO. Personally i don't think the ideal grey/shadow would be like Kyp Durren, Kyp is often more a rogue lightsider in my view, and recently seems to have put aside some of his more rebellious ideas, maybe as Luke Skywalker's jedi have embraced a version of grey jedi philosophy themselves. I agree i imagine the task of turning from the dark would be harder than for the light, however i still think it could be done, particularly if a dark jedi was put in a position to work for the greater good again for whatever reason. Seems to me it would be a transition point between a dark jedi turning back to the lightside as well. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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R2D2 - Staff
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"They are also refered to as Shadow Jedi, believing that the ends justify the means." Sounds a lot like Kyp Durron to me Although, the name Shadow Jedi, is also associated to an Academy established to rival the Jedi Academy. Believe it's in the Young Jedi Knights series, or something like that. I believe there is a middle/grey zone in the Force. I can see Light Jedi going Grey, but it would be hard for a Dark Jedi to change. The Dark Side is so much more intoxicating. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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