| Lightsaber, stances...related info | |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired  |
The leader for this section is Lord Exar Kun (mattijs_oud@hotmail.com). Please coordinate with him regarding anything you may be able to contribute.
-rh _______________ Back from the dead... This post was edited by Ruuk Haviser on Mar 30 2003 05:26pm. |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired 
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*talks to self* (Damn, I thought I turned it off. Now this switch...right...and with that one you...ok. So, what did I...) *saber ignites, cutting Ruuk's own head off* Oh, crap. Never never never look down the barrel of a loaded weapon! Someone give me a hand here please? -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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Rei D'Kana - Ex-Student |
lol  |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student 
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ah thanks *places head back on its rightfull place* _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Marcel Mandarijn - Student 
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I got it, here ya go. *gives Exar's head back* |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student
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nope, it sure is gone! would any1 be so kind to search for my head? sabers arent your thing ruuk, stay away from them  _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 This comment was edited by Lord Exar Kun on Aug 03 2003 11:14am. |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired 
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lol! Hey, I THOUGHT I retracted the saber BEFORE heads started rollin. Maybe I dreamed that part... OOPS!  -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student
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*runs around screaming looking for his head* edit: oops, something wrong there, I kinda cant scream when my head is gone _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 This comment was edited by Lord Exar Kun on Aug 02 2003 08:26pm. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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*touches his neck* is it still there? _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired
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Ok, well all that makes sense. OFF WITH YOUR HEADS! *ignites lightsaber* Ah, just kidding. *retracts saber* Really, you all do make good points. -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student 
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-Ruuk, np man, guess I'll just clean it up again, sigh, look at all those empty beer cans... anyways, good points aeth, but it doesnt really matter for the holocron. The holocron is made to contain everything we can think of, not to contain only the usefull stuff. So yes, in a dueling manual we would probably tell them that kind of stuff, but in the holocron we need it all. And since I'm still a guy that believes in the "learn is yourself" way, I just gave the components for a combo, not the whole combo. That way they'll learn themselfs how the combos actually work instead of having some manual that learns them every single combo we can think of. Really, a components list will really learn them more than a combos list. and about the delayed combos: those are just as easy as the normal ones, but I think a list of delayed combos would be better here, coz there arent that many delayed combos. _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 This comment was edited by Lord Exar Kun on Aug 01 2003 09:48am. |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired
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Ok, you arse! Just because I don't even know how to turn on a car doesn't mean you have to pick on me... (j/k)EDIT: Ok, ok...yeah, I see what you're saying. Good points. Makes sense. Let me mention something like this: explaining to people WHEN you come in to attack. "Wait until...bleah...then run in but make sure you are pressing attack BEFORE you start your run." Something like that. I'm just surprised at some of what Jedi Prodigy taught me, and it was little tips like that. Anyway, understand what you're saying. Although I'd STILL like some of those weird ones written down. To each his own. I'm comfortable with you and I having a slight disagreement here. np. =) Exar- So sorry, bro! Didn't mean to stink up your office! -rh -rh _______________ Back from the dead... This comment was edited by Ruuk Haviser on Aug 01 2003 02:02am. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired
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but but but... RUUK! dont tell me you cant memorize 8 swings! -forward -forward right -right -backward right -backward -backward left -left -forward left Now you have the documention. What more do you need?  Ok, I agree there are several variations and several combos. But let me tell you one thing. Most of the are bullshit. Really. Combos in general are a bit... well... unsure. You dont need to chain 3 swings in red ALL the time you do it. AU contraire. It's better to do only one swing that hits becuase you're not as open as during 3 swings. Serious, combos are for those who do hit with their first swing. they need a second and a third chance. A master kills his opponent with the FIRST swing. So instead of practicing the move, you should practise how to actually HIT somebody. That's what I was complaining about. Nowdays everyone practises moves, combos, specials... that may be nice. But what in the world are the moves good for, if they dont LAND in the enemy? Huh? Right, nothing. You better train how to get close enough to your enemy and how to aim and get your timing right, instead of simply memorizing moves. All you need to kill somebody are simple swings. If your frst swing hit and you are sure (!) a second hit would hit aswell you may do a combo to spare time. Nothing else. Get my point? You DONT need any more moves beside the lunge, the yDFA and red swings. If you're good enough with them, you're king! The only handy thing I agree to is some form of hit n run with yellow vs red, but that only works with inexpereinced red users. Again: master with red beats master with yellow. I once saw a guy using a nice combo with yellow that tricked his enemys. He was pretending to attack, leading his opponent to slash aswell, retreating with a spin and coming back with a horizontal swing. Magically taht last swing always got you. That's the only combo I've seen which is really usefull. Forget about the rest. Many others will not agree with me here, but that's my point of view. You knew Lighting rod, ruuk? Dont think so... damn, that guy would open your eyes. he not even needed specials. He simply ran towards you and no matter what you did, he did some red swings and killed you. He did not wait for your attack, he did not hide, nore escape. he simply killed you. that's the way to go! And hey, no problem with stealing threads... we dont have anything to do anyway, eh? P.S. About that "i guess you cant care about it" it was meant to sound like: I guess you have too much RL work to do so you cant memorize the combos like you memorize how to turn on a car. _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student
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aw man great, now we need a ruuk debating aeth thread, coz this way you guys will take away the thread. aeth man, what are you doing lol, you already have a JACen debating aeth thread..:p _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired
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Aeth- Yes, reading is certainly not the same as understanding. I'm not disputing that at all. And I certainly wouldn't have a bunch of index cards taped all around my monitor. As they say in my martial arts class, "if you have to think about it, you're too late.” Or was it slow? Whatever. Can’t remember. Point is, I’m going to try to practice by myself in a dark server corner away from people...for awhile before I get out and duel. One needs to drive your moves home with “muscle memory.” It takes many, many repetitions for it to get stuck into your head. So that you don’t HAVE to look at some index card to do the move. BUT...in order for me to work on the moves themselves...especially the funky ones, it would be helpful to have the stuff written down in front of me. I could look at it, then practice it until I got the move down pat. THEN, go out and duel with it and try to use it. But, if I come back the next day, and try to do it again...and forget the move (for the life of me)...well, that’s where the paper comes in again. “Ah! Yeah, that’s right.” Go back to the corner, practice some more, then go out and duel with it. Eventually I won’t forget. And by continually doing this, it will then stick in my head and become part of my bag of tricks, if you will. So...yeah, I’d like a list of swings. “maybe you just cannot care about that stuff”...I’m going to assume your translation here didn’t flow quite right. The reason why I’m trying to get something written down IS BECAUSE I care about it. I want to get better, and believe this would help me. Maybe not some other people, but me...and perhaps several others. A persons fighting style is their own. And just because all of these things would be written down doesn’t mean I’d USE them all. My keyboard setup is in a certain way, and it may be difficult for me to string certain moves in combo. Or, I may prefer doing this as opposed to that. Some people like to roll, others jump. Not that there is anything wrong with either one. But giving people the OPPORTUNITY to see what is POSSIBLE to do in the game, gives them the chance to try all the stuff out...and pick and choose what they want and feel most comfortable doing. Again, they wouldn’t have the piece of paper in front of them when they are fighting...that won’t work, for heaven’s sake...it would only be helpful for when they are training by themselves on the server. Trying things out that they never tried before. I mean, listen: when I’ve been on the server, people have done strong attacks and I’m like, “how’d you do that?” They tell me, give me the keystrokes, and help me learn to do it. This is a perfectly acceptible way to do it. But...I may find myself screwing up...forgetting a keystroke or timing issue...and they have to tell me again. One way to take care of this is to keep looking back up on the console to remember what they told me. Another way is to have them tell me again. Yet another way...is...to...have...all... this...damn...stuff...written...down. Something to look back on when you know you’ve been screwing it up. This IS the Holocron, for heaven's sake, and I fail to understand why some of the most important stuff we learn here at JA is - essentiall - nowhere to be found but live in class or on the servers. I WANT DOCUMENTATION! Dammit! Hell, it'd be nice if each class (well, maybe not EACH class!) people taught had documentation with them. Something to take home and work on. If I'm correct, a person remembers only 70% of what was taught 24 hours previously...and the figure goes down-down-down from there. But if we had something to hold in our hands, something to look back on, it might help us remember and we could practice more efficiently...and get better, faster. If you are reading a book on weightlifting, and trying the exercises out, you have to refer back to the book/pictures frequently to make sure you are doing the exercise perfectly. You say to yourself: “this is where your arms go...no, not straight out...your legs are bent a little bit....ok last time, i did this. That’s wrong. I’ll try it right this time.” I’m talking about the same thing here. Eventually you’re gonna remember how to do the exercise and you won’t have to look at the text/pictures anymore. But while you are practicing, it would be helpful. I’m rambling. I’m also drooling waiting for this Holocron to get put up. When the heck is this going to be? Dagnabit! -rh _______________ Back from the dead... This comment was edited by Ruuk Haviser on Jul 31 2003 02:24am. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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reading is one thing. understanding is another. otherwise you end up looking at your notes before every single attack in a duel. "now what I'm going to do? hm... lets choose a red horizontal swing. how was that one performed again. *checks notes* aha, left+mouse1" thats exaggerated of course, but i hope you get my point ^^ you dont have to learn the swings, you have to UNDERSTAND them. see, you can memorize every step of turning a car on. or you just understand and do it. or do you recall every single step while turning on your car? but, ya, i agree, you're an old man (well are you? my grandma would call you "young man" ) and maybe you just cannot care about that stuff. they say there were other things beside video games. weirdos.ok, i've lost my red line. what was our point again? you want a list of all swings? no you dont... do you? i think you wanted the delayed combos explained. i'm not too sure 'bout them either. i know one delayed one for sure, the double-backward-spin. well, i guess i stick to my point that it should be included later, after we've done at least some of the important stuff. this whole new fighting style is crap anyway. i mean, serious, whats a bug yDFA good for? nothing. how many guys did you kill with that move, huh? 1... maybe 2 lets say even 10. now how many guys have you killed with the normal yDFA? get my point? or this air-fighting style. like triple yellow spins while hoping. YES, it looks nice, YES you have to know it if you want to be l33t... but... actually fight with it? that doesnt work. it turns out to be one of those chicken duels. both duelers slash wildy, doing the best moves and most difficult combos... but only hitting the air. Ack, i could go on for hours. I'e actually have a finished short-comment about the three fighting styles. ghoul-fighting, red style old school and that crappy new age style. arr hm, we really should get some holocron related stuff. my thoughts are going nowhere _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired
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Aeth- First thing, SP: Damn. I'm glad you told me that. THAT - in and of itself - should be mentioned in the Holocron! Secondly...I understand what you are saying, but I'm me, and you're you, and I'm TELLING YOU that I, myself, find it difficult to remember all this stuff. :O And if I want to work on something...hell, I already forgot what Swordheart taught me the other day! Since I can't remember crap, I'm going to forget some of what I'm taught. And since I'm a little older - and have to work - I can't spend as much time practicing this stuff as some of you other guys. But if I have it written down, I can go back to where I left off and practice that move again. Trust me, I understand what you're saying...but if I don't write down my name before I go to bed every night, I won't remember what it is when I wake up! (Ok, maybe I'm twisting the truth A LITTLE bit here. )But I'll tell ya - there's gotta be a way to take some of this information and put it down on paper...er, monitor. Although I hear your argument, I have yet found a good reason why this would not be possible. Seems to me that a keystroke is a keystroke, a mouse click is a mouse click, and describing the action that you need to perform to do the move could be described in plain English/Dutch/German/whatever. You'd have to PRACTICE that move then, of course, numerous, numerous times to get it right...but why, why couldn't the basics of each move/combo/whatever be written down? Now answer me that, bubba! -rh _______________ Back from the dead... This comment was edited by Ruuk Haviser on Jul 29 2003 10:07pm. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired
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ruuk, everything we put into this holocron was discovered by the players. there was no list of swings and combos at the start (beside the specials). we all worked it out ourselves. its the only way, learning by doing now... er.. i forgot what i was going to say. damn. edit: ah yes! NEVER EVER practise in SP. neeeeeeeever! thats the worst thing you can do! really. the saber system in SP is WAY different than in MP. they've made huge changes beside SP and MP at the start and the patches even increased them. you cant do a rDFA from running in SP for example. you can turn while lunging. and the saber completly feels different. they can actualyl bounce off another saber what would never happen in MP. If you want to practise, create your own server with bots. you have 0 ping there and can train much better. cuz once you learn the wrong timing and wrong combos in SP it's gonna be hard to adept them to MP. phew _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 This comment was edited by Aeth S'kray on Jul 29 2003 10:42am. |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired
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Well, then...you all can just go to hell. (wait...whoops!) "Yeah, uh, good points you guys. Uh, ok." Although I might disagree with you, Cyb, I can understand Aeth's point. HOWEVER: I, for one (and maybe it's just me...some other people may want to chime in here) would like to have some sort of reference on how to do every swing possible. The exact keystrokes, timing (meaning, "wait until your saber is coming up next to your right shoulder, THEN press [x] and attack again"] best combos to chain together (and why)...things like this. If I had this information in front of me, I could go back to SP and practice on the bots to "burn" the keystrokes into my head, then get online and try them out in MP. But, if I don't have a nice list in front of me to work from, I gotta just take stabs at it (pun intended) like I'm blindfolded. Yeah, I know that's how a lot of people learn how to play, but dammit! There are 5 different ways to learn, and I'm one who is very visual. I need to see the keystrokes on paper, and then practice them. It's difficult to do it the other ways. I'm sure there are other people out there that would like some sort of command/keystoke listing of all these different combos. I know we've talked about this in the past and people have poo-pooed the idea, but I'm changing my mind. Again, how the hell was I supposed to know that you could DELAY combos? Criminey. I accidently push something wrong, and my dude just starts flailing about...how am I supposed to remember what the hell I pushed? Sheesh! Anyway, off my soapbox now. Just thought this might be something we may want to address at some point in time. Carry on. -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired
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Cyb has a point. We barely have any basic strategys yet, so why rush with the advanced stuff? Still it's good someone mentioned it, we can add it later _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Cyb - Student 
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Hmm.. somehow I don't think those thingys would make a significant addition to the project... I think I'll be able to think of some more important things to add to this section but don't know coz didnt read this one yet... _______________ ~~ Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none! ~~ |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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no but you can only do reverse direction spins in yellow on your own. The reverse in red only happens via a counter with an opponent, thats what I'm saying _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Lord Exar Kun - Student
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its done in red as well. not only in yellow. _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Jake Kainite - Student
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yeah delayed combos, peasey weasy easy peasey weasy Its jsut normal combos, but delayed. You have to learn the timing, cos too soon or too late and they won't work. Everyone says don't do spins cos they are too slow, but if you throw in a delayed one every now and then, you can catch people. About the spins when saber clashes, thats kinda weird. You can spin one way into someone, sabers clash, then you end up spinning the other way. You can only do this with no opponent in yellow stance, not red. Very curious. _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Lord Exar Kun - Student
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yeah I know what you mean. Like you make a swing, make another move afterwords and it turns into a nice spin combo. have been trying to figure those out, but its hard. it also includes jumps and all. Or do you mean that when the sabers clash som1 makes a spin? coz thats old style. Hux knows a lot of that. but he's not here anymore is he... any1 who knows more of this stuff? _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired
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Exar- I had some practice sessions with several people, namely Jedi Prodigy, Swordheart, and a couple others I can't remember. During these sessions, it became very apparent to me that dueling goes A LOT F-ING DEEPER THAN I EVER THOUGHT! By deeper, I mean the following: it seems that if you delay keystrokes for a certain period of time, you can open up some seemingly "secret" combos or whatever that normal people don't know about. Like delayed combo-ing. Have to ask Swordheart to explain better. Regardless, if possible I would like to include in the Holocron the keystrokes to these seemingly unknown-to-a-certain-few combos. I believe this is at the heart of JA, and they should very much be described and included. Let me know what you think. Anyone else with comments, please submit. Heck, I'm bored. Gotta do something to keep our Holocroney minds active. -rh _______________ Back from the dead... |
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