The Jedi Academy- Is the bible flawed after reaching only the third page?

Is the bible flawed after reaching only the third page?

Jul 06 2006 05:27pm

CuZzA
- Student

At the moment I'm talking about The Old Testement

Well i'm an Atheist, but i figured before I ride off religions as garbage I'd read into a few religions to save myself from being deemed ignorant.

So i'm reading the start of the Old Testament only to find what I believe to be a flaw...

'The Lord God' created Adam, then from Adams rib he created Eve. Eve gave birth to Cain, and then Able. Long story short, Cain kills Able. Then it says, and I quote, "And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch"

As far as my understanding goes, God created only Adam and Eve. And Eve, as I said gave birth to Cain and Able. But somehow Cain has married some woman and they've had a baby.

Where the hell has this woman come from, and who the hell is she?

The only possibility I can see is something along the lines of Adam and Eve having another baby, a girl, and her and Cain having incest sex.

Sorry if my post is ignorant to religous heads but I haven't read past page 3 and I'm dumbstruck as to where Cains wife came from?

Someone enlighten me...
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Comments

Jul 10 2006 10:25am

Sared
- Retired

Simply put: yes, cain married his sister. The problem with incest did not exist at thier time due to thier genetic purity. Thats the simplest answer I can give, hope it helps.

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Jul 09 2006 12:14pm

Mindrith Pride
- Student

Quote:

. As for the crusades.....I don't know much about it seeing as I haven't studied anything on it in 5 years but I would like to say that the victors write the history books. It's rare for a war to be completely defensive. Again though, I don't remember much about the crusades.

If the victors write the history books then the victors were the muslims. With the exception of the first crusade, none of them were that successful in their objectives. Which was to reclaim the Holy Land. And Jerusalem fell back into muslim hands during the second crusade. Were the crusades purely defensive? No, but they were still defensive wars. If you do the research you will find that the europeans were essentially very lucky in that they were never conquered by the muslim world during the middle ages, unfortunately the Byzantium Empire didn't get to be so lucky, another casuality from the crusades.

Then again how can we completely trust what was written in history books, they could only contain what people/races/empires/religions want US to know, in truth we dont really know what happened back in jerusalum 2000years ago, we don't know if jesus was the son of god or if he was mearly a peasant with an idea for a better world. In truth we don't really know what happens in history, imo.
Also we should remember that many terrible things have been done in the name of 'god' and 'religion', having said that humans have also done terrible things that can make us question morality.
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Jul 09 2006 06:42am

Buzz
- Student

Quote:

Jul 09 2006 12:39am

tarpman
- The Tarped Avenger

[SOMEWHAT OT]

Those calling themselves atheists in this thread:

Atheist, or agnostic?

Myself, I lean more towards the agnostic side.
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Jul 09 2006 12:36am

DarthMike
- Student

Well Christianity isn't a religion. Religions are man-made. And wether you think you do or not, you do need god to have morality.
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This comment was edited by DarthMike on Jul 09 2006 12:36am.

Jul 09 2006 12:29am

{JF}Jesse
- Student

Heh, that's funny cuz I started doing the same thing the other day without even reading this. I'm on page 4 and I already disagree with it =), though my disagreement was with the assumption of earth being created for man. However, people are right when they say not to let minor holes in the story completely derail the entire belief. I'm atheist but I usually don't use the bible against itself, seeing as it's supposed to be more about the essence of the stories than the stories themselves. From what I understand, many christians don't really agree with much of the old testament anyways.....so if you are intent on analyzing it at least make it to the new testament. I'm not there yet but I intend to read through it. The main points that are arguable in the new testament imo are whether Christ was born w/o mary ever....well.. you know....and whether Christ rose from the dead, since these two points are much of the basis of Christianity. As for the crusades.....I don't know much about it seeing as I haven't studied anything on it in 5 years but I would like to say that the victors write the history books. It's rare for a war to be completely defensive. Again though, I don't remember much about the crusades.

Jul 08 2006 01:37pm

Gil-Galad
- Student

Its true we dont need religion for morality now, I am an atheist, and believe myself to be a morally good person. However I do believe religion was necessary for the development of morality in our societies. Religion exists as a response to human fear of the unknown, which was how it came to exist. It also provided the basic rules and laws which allowed tribes to develop further into more complex organisms, creating and maintaining a basic kind of order which could not have otherwise existed. In this sense, religion was a fundamental tool in the development of society and its morals. In my opinion religion has served its purpose and should be consigned to history where it belongs, we dont need it to maintain order, we dont need it for morality, we dont need it to explain the mysteries of the natural world. This will never happen though, the primordial fear of the unknown is a human trait that will never change, and people will always use religion as a defence against those fears.
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This comment was edited by Gil-Galad on Jul 08 2006 01:37pm.

Jul 08 2006 01:13pm

Mindrith Pride
- Student

Quote:

If no one in the world believed in a higher being, a place to go when you die, then whats the point of being good? Why not kill people it doesn't matter? take what you want? I mean really the bible is just a guide to the proper ways to live your life. Whats just, fair, and proper.

i agree with masta here, imo when i walk into a store and see something i want, it's MY morality that stops me from sticking it under my shirt and walking off, i pay for it instead, fair is fair, and people dont need the bible to tell them stealing is wrong

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Jul 08 2006 01:11pm

Mindrith Pride
- Student

Quote:

besides, the pope (along with the french king) had all of the crusaders captured and tortered after they were forced from the holy lands by a huge army of ... some people >< >> <<. and if memory serves, the templars didn't serve under the pope

I know it says that in the Da Vinci Code, but did that really happen?

lol I've never read or seen the Da Vinci Code

i found that information while researching the templar knights.. it is however one of many histories that people believe happened to the templars, so it's hard to say, + im not a historian

. I do however believe it fits with most things i've read about them.
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Jul 08 2006 11:54am

Masta
- Jedi Council

Quote:

Morality does not equal religion. I hardly believe that a state with only atheistic citizen is going to be an anarchistic hellhole without any sort of moralities/social norms.
Society cannot exist without morality, and so can morality not exist without society. Both however, can exist without religion.

</offtopic>
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This comment was edited by Masta on Jul 08 2006 11:55am.

Jul 08 2006 08:52am

Smilykrazy
- Retired

This is the beginning of Genesis Chapter 5. When reading the bible you have to read it and study it, in its entirty. Adams first sons name was Seth. In vs 4 it says he had sons and daughters. So it wasnt just Cain and Able, there were others as well.

Sorry if someone posted this already, I am too sleepy to read all the other posts. But I hope this answers your question.

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat E'-nos:
7 And Seth lived after he begat E'-nos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 And E'-nos lived ninety years, and begat Ca-i'-nan:
10 And E'-nos lived after he begat Ca-i'-nan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

etc

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Jul 08 2006 07:42am

Dicemaster
- Student

I personally look at the bible, and really organized religon as a control. If no one in the world believed in a higher being, a place to go when you die, then whats the point of being good? Why not kill people it doesn't matter? take what you want? I mean really the bible is just a guide to the proper ways to live your life. Whats just, fair, and proper.
I feel the same way about organized religon. I don't personally feel that obligated to go to church. I think that as long as I pray and have a strong faith in God I will be accepted by him in the afterlife. I feel closer to God praying alone in my room then I do when I go to church. Why should the people that just come there and space off be any better then I?
Anyway I know its slightly off topic, but the basic point is, the bible, in my mind anyway, isn't ment to be 100% literal. Its your guide, its whats proper to live bye
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Jul 08 2006 01:37am

Bail Hope of Belouve
- Student

Quote:

I know it says that in the Da Vinci Code, but did that really happen?
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Jul 07 2006 06:13pm

Mindrith Pride
- Student

Quote:

Hnnh. A question like that is almost linked to the Crusades contradicting against their own beliefs. One can't really take the Bible that seriously, not even the Pope who condoned killing Muslims.

Crusades were a defensive war, to help out the Orthodox Christian lands, because they were being slaughtered and conquered by the muslims.

Jul 07 2006 05:28pm

Buzz
- Student

Quote:

Hnnh. A question like that is almost linked to the Crusades contradicting against their own beliefs. One can't really take the Bible that seriously, not even the Pope who condoned killing Muslims.

Crusades were a defensive war, to help out the Orthodox Christian lands, because they were being slaughtered and conquered by the muslims.
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Jul 07 2006 05:00pm

Nuebus
- Student

Hnnh. A question like that is almost linked to the Crusades contradicting against their own beliefs. One can't really take the Bible that seriously, not even the Pope who condoned killing Muslims.
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Jul 07 2006 04:40pm

Raziel Anjelis
- Student

At the end of the day, just because something is contradictory or oxymoronic doesn't mean it's not believeable.

I'm Christian, and I couldn't care less if Abel was spelt like Able. The meaning and moral is still there.
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This comment was edited by Raziel Anjelis on Jul 07 2006 04:40pm.

Jul 07 2006 01:06pm

Lirael
- Jedi Council

The Bible's first 'flaw' is before the 3rd page, its on the second

the first two chapters are contradictory - chapter 1, humans are made last, chapter 2, theyre not.
chapter 1 humans are a primary creation, chapter 2 theyre secondary, the list goes on...

I'll reiterate what people have said before - being a Christian doesnt mean you have to take everything the Bible says literally.

Silly example: there is a parable in the new testament illustrating the final judgement with goats and sheep. No one argues only sheep will be saved

The point is not the geanology or who married who its about the 'truth' behind the parable/metaphor/similie/myth
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Jul 07 2006 08:30am

Mindrith Pride
- Student

Quote:

It depends. If you believe the bible to be absolutely true, word for word fact, the world was created in 6 days, a great flood covered the world, and all the species of the world were on a big boat. Then there will be quite a few confusing parts. However if you're not a fundamentalist, and can accept that the bible contains a lot of allegoy, morality tales, and the rules of society, then you'll have less issue about contradiction, since these are stories past down by spoken word before finally being written down.

And anyways, even by scientific study, they've determined that humans have come from something like only 7 females. So early on incest is possibly going to happen.

Although i am not a chrisitian, i definatly agree with this. I mean, if you could speak the language the bible was meant to be read in (hebru or something i believe), in its true form, not a translated copy im sure it would make sense. I remember our science teacher showed us a funny translation once. It starts off as a normal sentance in english, then its translated into spanish, and when its translated back into english its completely different!! so i guess that could be what happens in the bible

Jul 07 2006 04:08am

Buzz
- Student

and I believe the original text also has God creating man twice. It still shouldn't be taken as literal truth. And Eve did have more than one daughter I think. Although that doesn't help to explain how the city that cain traveled to existed. Or why if the only humans in existence were his family that he would need to be marked for protection.
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When you are going through Hell, keep going.
-Sir Winston Churchill.

Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it.

Jul 07 2006 12:23am

Phantom
- Student

Well I dont read the Christan Bible, but from the orginal Torah, it says (if Im not mistaken) that God created Adam and Eve the way you said. They had Chaim, Able, and a female child who I cant recall the name of at this moment. And from there God permited incest to be commited, only this one time.
Maybe the Christan Bible is revised or something, but this is how it is in the Torah.
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Jul 07 2006 12:10am

Gil-Galad
- Student

Someone once told me that they do not have faith because they believe the bible to be true, but that they believe the bible to be true because they have faith. An interesting way of looking at it imo.
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Jul 06 2006 11:31pm

xAnAtOs
- Student

Quote:

and its just wrong to bang ya sister really aint it

hahaha

i never really knew anything about the bible but that's an interesting point cuzza, it's only heightened my scepticism. then again i think some of it should only be taken with a grain of salt, in short what buzz said.
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Jul 06 2006 11:05pm

Monteeeeeee
- Nugget

and its just wrong to bang ya sister really aint it

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Jul 06 2006 08:59pm

Bail Hope of Belouve
- Student

I might also add that incest isn't a problem per se. But it breeds problems. You see, hereditary diseases, whether you have them or not, you carry in your DNA. When you marry someone who doesn't have this disease in his/her DNA, then your children will only be carriers of the disease. And the contrary is true as well. If you are a carrier, and you marry another carrier, there's a 25% chance your children will have the disease.
If you should have sex with someone of your family, there's a very high probability that that person is also a carrier of the disease.
So generally, all kinds of ailments, from the most simple to the worst can be conceived at a high risk if you have sex with relatives.

That really wasn't a problem back then I suppose.
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