| Religion Convo | |
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Shar - ex-Student  |
So i had just finished writing my essay on the downfall of christianity when i notice Monk is online :p Following Convo Ensues
Masa Karasu says: sup Masa Karasu says: youre a christian right ? don't start a band... says: yup Masa Karasu says: so i assume youre against homosexuality ? don't start a band... says: the sin not the sinners Masa Karasu says: ahh Masa Karasu says: and also you are pro slavery `? don't start a band... says: no... Masa Karasu says: Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life. - Leviticus 25:44 don't start a band... says: lol, planned, nice try Masa Karasu says: i also assume you believe women are inferior ? don't start a band... says: men lead, that doesn't mean abusing or lowering women. men lead the family while women support them and both become one, basically Masa Karasu says: Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. - 1 Corinthians 14 And: Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authori don't start a band... says: gj, you copy and pasted someone's argument, what are you saying? Masa Karasu says: im not copying anyones argument besides gods. don't start a band... says: well if you agree with God, then there's not really a reason to tell me these things unless you're trying to teach me, which i think you're not. unless you're trying to make a point don't start a band... says: and thus don't agree with God don't start a band... says: which is always a sticky situation for a person Masa Karasu says: i ofc don't agree with god since im making theese comments Masa Karasu says: just wondering if you do = don't start a band... says: i trust God yes. the slave part you're confused on because it's old testament, whereas with the new testament all men are freed from the power of sin by Jesus; gentiles and Jews. which i think i remember remarks being made about physical slavery ending with that as well. though i could be wrong Masa Karasu says: so youre saying only certain parts of the bible counts ? don't start a band... says: if you understood, rather than simply read, the Bible, you'd know what i mean by that don't start a band... says: the New Testament is all about Jesus coming to earth and thus forming a new covanent with man; as opposed to that which was made in the Old Testament through Moses and Abraham and such Masa Karasu says: ahh then lets use a jeus quote don't start a band... says: just like Jesus healed on the Sabbath Masa Karasu says: humm Masa Karasu says: so jesus is all love ? Masa Karasu says: for everyone or only christians = don't start a band... says: equals what? Masa Karasu says: = equals shar missing the question mark button Masa Karasu says: also the religion seems to only be for a certain race Masa Karasu says: Matthew 15:22-26 we find this telling conversation: A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel Masa Karasu says: " The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." don't start a band... says: Jesus loves all. that's what Acts is all about; where it's revealed to Paul that Jesus came to die for Jews and gentiles alike don't start a band... says: and thus he takes the message to the Gentiles, specifically the Greeks Masa Karasu says: so how do you explain him not helping the woman ? don't start a band... says: let me check it quick Masa Karasu says: just scroll up. don't start a band... says: the Bible is all about context, it's the argument of fools that pulls out little parts of the Bible to make a point and doesn't observe the cultural backing, the surrounding passages and scene Masa Karasu says: ahh so what was the backing Masa Karasu says: thought jesus loved everyone. don't start a band... says: k, you're confused don't start a band... says: that's not Matt. 15:22-26 don't start a band... says: lol Masa Karasu says: oh then what is it ? don't start a band... says: no idea, but Matt:22-26 is talking about Jesus being taken to Golgotha and the time leading up to his crucifixion don't start a band... says: 15:22-26 Masa Karasu says: sec while i check oremus don't start a band... says: lol Masa Karasu says: Matthew 15.22 don't start a band... says: such a foolish world to use its intelligence to try and deny the very God who granted it to them Masa Karasu says: and still not suffer his wrath no matter how much he threatens with it. Masa Karasu says: so it was Matthew 15.22 still why didn't he help ? Masa Karasu says: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=45510893 don't start a band... says: sec don't start a band... says: and the day of the Lord is coming Masa Karasu says: you do realize saying any part of the bible is not "used" or does not count just makes my entire point since it proves god is wrong. don't start a band... says: ... Masa Karasu says: The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever. [Isaiah 40 verse 8] Masa Karasu says: saying any part does not count anymore Masa Karasu says: means god was wrong Masa Karasu says: and isen't he supposed to be this omnipotent omniscient being ? don't start a band... says: God can't be wrong. because to say he's wrong is to say you have some idea of what "right" should be. and where do you get that but from the fact that God created us with a sense of how things should be, because we're formed in His image. don't start a band... says: He is don't start a band... says: it's foolish of you to know that and not believe it don't start a band... says: but that's the ignorant foolishness of this world Masa Karasu says: still waiting about the woman Masa Karasu says: and if he can't be wrong Masa Karasu says: christianty still supports slavery. Masa Karasu says: and sexism Masa Karasu says: and believes homosexuals should be put to death. don't start a band... says: for their sin don't start a band... says: but Jesus came and delieved justification through His death on the cross don't start a band... says: and freed us from the penalty of sin, and from the power of sin Masa Karasu says: then he cleared out all the old sin Masa Karasu says: what about the new sin don't start a band... says: God is not restricted by time Masa Karasu says: and jesus also states that we should follow gods law or will never enter heaven don't start a band... says: his death purifies everyone for all time Masa Karasu says: For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:20 don't start a band... says: and he declares us righteous by his death don't start a band... says: that's what Romans is about Masa Karasu says: ah so people can then do whatever we want and still enter heaven ? Masa Karasu says: still waiting on the woman don't start a band... says: Romans 6 "what shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" Masa Karasu says: so then we aren't saved from sin for all time. Masa Karasu says: the funny thing is all the contradictions Masa Karasu says: makes the book kinda hard to defend. Masa Karasu says: so we are back at killing them Masa Karasu says: should you start the jihad or i ? don't start a band... says: ... Masa Karasu says: comeon don't give up yet. Masa Karasu says: there probably are a lot of other contradictions left. don't start a band... says: i think you're asking the wrong person. my answers are coming from the Bible, and i think if you actually took time to read and try to understand it, rather than get sections of wanna-be arguments from online sources, it would clear a lot up Masa Karasu says: well the wannabe sources are quotes from the bible. don't start a band... says: and in truth, if you don't have faith in Jesus after all he's done for you and all the glory in this world, you won't get it from a bunch of facts most likely Masa Karasu says: aren't facts what the world is based on ? don't start a band... says: the wisest man besides Jesus to ever walk the earth said himself that all wisdom is meaningless Masa Karasu says: and he was ? don't start a band... says: Solomon Masa Karasu says: and you do realise that piece of information is also knowledge ? don't start a band... says: and meaningless, because when we die God isn't going to say "so...who was so-and-so?" Masa Karasu says: so we should live like stoics in apparent apathy ? don't start a band... says: either we have put all our faith in Christ and thus been saved from sin, or not. don't start a band... says: you can take it or leave don't start a band... says: it don't start a band... says: but if you leave it you leave life behind don't start a band... says: it's black and white Masa Karasu says: haven't i already done that if i am at the gate ? don't start a band... says: it's right there in the Bible you're quoting Masa Karasu says: actually no since the bible doesn't let me have my own opinion. don't start a band... says: you either accept the Bible for what it is and what it says, or not. Masa Karasu says: its more kill the heathenes. don't start a band... says: "the message of the cross if foolishness to those on the path to the grave" Masa Karasu says: if foolishness ? don't start a band... says: is* Masa Karasu says: ah. Masa Karasu says: also the reasoning you are using atm is called pascal's wager. Masa Karasu says: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/ don't start a band... says: so many people try to question God through trying to prove something wrong in His Word, and the truth is there's no argument for me to pose though you look for one. you obviously know the Bible oh-so well if you can find "errors"; and so if after reading the Truth, you don't believe, then what hope do i have in convincing you of what God couldn't? Masa Karasu says: oh its not to convince me don't start a band... says: don't look to me for answers Masa Karasu says: banish that thought yonder. don't start a band... says: look to the Bible Masa Karasu says: its for you. Masa Karasu says: youre still kinda young and haven't wasted your entire life on meaningless ideals and valuegrounds don't start a band... says: i walk with Jesus, my life is more fulfilled if i die in the next second than yours will ever be without Him Masa Karasu says: besides how come god won't heal amputess or feed starving children in africa ? don't start a band... says: who are you, who is anyone, to demand miracles of God; who's already given so much? Masa Karasu says: sec while i find all the ask and you shall recieve quotes don't start a band... says: life is gift enough, Jesus even tops all Masa Karasu says: n Matthew 7:7 Jesus says: Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gi don't start a band... says: you can try. so why are you talking to me and not asking God for those things? Masa Karasu says: w how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! don't start a band... says: hmm...probably because you don't actually believe in Him Masa Karasu says: already did didn't work. Masa Karasu says: then how about you try. Masa Karasu says: since he can grant anything Masa Karasu says: how about a new geforce card ? don't start a band... says: and who are you to say God should do all that you want in your timing? Masa Karasu says: Matthew 17:20 Jesus says: For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. Masa Karasu says: In Matthew 21:21: I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. don't start a band... says: if God gives me nothing he's given me more than I ever deserve Masa Karasu says: The message is reiterated Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. don't start a band... says: and you do doubt don't start a band... says: lol don't start a band... says: how ironic Masa Karasu says: i don't doubt Masa Karasu says: i don't believe. don't start a band... says: black and white don't start a band... says: doubt, or belief don't start a band... says: not believing in God is doubting him Masa Karasu says: not doubt or belief Masa Karasu says: disbelief or belief. Masa Karasu says: so lets do this experiment Masa Karasu says: if this works i will devote the rest of my life to god. Masa Karasu says: In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be: "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will Masa Karasu says: hatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref] Masa Karasu says: i would like a ps3. Masa Karasu says: doesn't seem to wkr. Masa Karasu says: work* don't start a band... says: haha, i'm trying to keep up with your foolishness but there's a lot to get through... don't start a band... says: how is a ps3 bringing glory to the Father? you certainly won't do it, and the ps3 isn't going to do it Masa Karasu says: ou may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref] don't start a band... says: And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father Masa Karasu says: You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref] don't start a band... says: lol don't start a band... says: it's late Masa Karasu says: thats the actual quote. don't start a band... says: read the Bible don't start a band... says: believe it or don't Masa Karasu says: did found it lacking don't start a band... says: but no amount of argument will convince your mind if your heart is so clouded Masa Karasu says: 2dimensional storyline Masa Karasu says: omnipotence lacks any thrill don't start a band... says: but when you face God, maybe you can get in a request for that ps3 on your way down Masa Karasu says: haha.[left][/left] Offline :> _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Permanent:
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Hardwired - Retired 
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From here on out I want to see only responces taking a serious part in this discussion. Anything but that will have consequences tied to it.
Any further posts should also be without sarcasm, condescending remarks and/or phrases, slander och cheap shots. Just a purely factual and ideological discussion. [edit] Permied to make my point more clear unless it isn't. - HW _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: This comment was edited by Hardwired on May 11 2007 02:40pm. |
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Sauce - =^.^= 
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arguing about religion is bad drama. it might not seem so bad to have discussions about it but i've never seen it work out. people much more intelligent than us (ok me...) have failed many times over in the past to carry on a civilized discussion. religion is just such a sensitive topic because it's an integral part of people's lives. even a person says that such and such religion appears to not make sense, appears to be not so rooted in what the religion should be, or appears to be wrong, it's in essence an attack on the follower of the religion. so yeah that's why people can't keep a cool head. there is no better way to get on someone's bad side than to question something they hold near and dear to their heart. |
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Shar - Ex-Student 
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im all for friendly discussion, but its clear in your conversation you didnt try and debate with him, you was finding what you believe to be faults in his relgion and throwing them in his face. Thats just rude and however much you dont mind people losing respect for you doesnt really matter. If people dont like you, they wont read your post's and thus you get no discussion, we have to think about other peoples responses to our opinions before we put them here,
I just think you could of had a discussion without being patronizing at the same time. I completely agree with you. I was finding what i believe to be wrong in his religion and if someone here does not think slavery and stoning of non believers is wrong then please say so. As for thinking about the other persons feelings or the likes i think i responded to that in my previous post. As for being patronising or acting condecening if you mean against the person in the msn convo i was simply well prepared for the discussion having just written an essay on it. If you mean against dane i was simply responding with the same manner of rhetoric he used. I believe using rhetoric as i lost whatever respect i had for you would by most also be considered patronising. Shouldn't this thread get back to discussing religion instead of trying to tell me how much of a bad person i am ? Your so one minded, do you still hate the germans from the 2nd world war, todays christans had no role in the previous actions of the relgion, it has come along way since then times change, people change relgion moulds in to new things. Then its not a religion. Religions deal with constant facts. You are by this argument only fueling my own. You do realize the bible was not created by human hands right ? It's not supposed to be edited since it was according to god himself created perfect. _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Shar - Ex-Student 
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That weak attempt contains more biblical quotes than i can name.
So lets start analyzing. How about starting with the biblical quote on jesus refusing to help a woman because she was not of the right race ? Have i misenterpreted this in any way or is there some context i have left out ? But didn't we already discuss this over the last two pages before you all started to make me see what a bad person i am ? For the third. The person in the msn convo is a longtime friend of mine that used to be in KoP with me. We are buddies its not like im trying to own him or anything. He is a very knowledgeable and devout christian it's not like im assaulting some recently turned only goes to church for events christian. Besides i don't know where you guys are getting theese things from since most of the longer non "stop being a bad person" or "You don't know anything about christian" or "Close this thread people will only start to flame" Are genuine discussions that it seems people are either ignoring or just to lazy to read. Once again stop posting the same thing the last person said and actually add to the discussion instead of hindering it. _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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im all for friendly discussion, but its clear in your conversation you didnt try and debate with him, you was finding what you believe to be faults in his relgion and throwing them in his face. Thats just rude and however much you dont mind people losing respect for you doesnt really matter. If people dont like you, they wont read your post's and thus you get no discussion, we have to think about other peoples responses to our opinions before we put them here,
I just think you could of had a discussion without being patronizing at the same time. I completely agree with you. I was finding what i believe to be wrong in his religion and if someone here does not think slavery and stoning of non believers is wrong then please say so. As for thinking about the other persons feelings or the likes i think i responded to that in my previous post. As for being patronising or acting condecening if you mean against the person in the msn convo i was simply well prepared for the discussion having just written an essay on it. If you mean against dane i was simply responding with the same manner of rhetoric he used. I believe using rhetoric as i lost whatever respect i had for you would by most also be considered patronising. Shouldn't this thread get back to discussing religion instead of trying to tell me how much of a bad person i am ? Your so one minded, do you still hate the germans from the 2nd world war, todays christans had no role in the previous actions of the relgion, it has come along way since then times change, people change relgion moulds in to new things. _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are 
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Jade Jedi - Retired 
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If you want to have a discussion about religion that's great, but don't cut and past some discussion you had with someone where you blatantly ambushed them and made a very week attempt to attack them and their beliefs.
Instead, post a quote or some other biblical reference, offer up an argument, view or theory and open it to discussion. For example: Adam & Eve, Was Eve being innocently playful when offering Adam the forbidden fruit, or is she really a filthy temptress with foul play on her mind? But please don't ambush someone the post it here and say "Hehehe I pwned a Cristian" I know that probably wasn't your intent but it is certainly what it comes across as. I am not trying to mock or flam you here, just letting you know how your post come across. I hope your thread get some constructive discussion going, good luck.  _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. |
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Shar - Ex-Student
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Quote: im all for friendly discussion, but its clear in your conversation you didnt try and debate with him, you was finding what you believe to be faults in his relgion and throwing them in his face. Thats just rude and however much you dont mind people losing respect for you doesnt really matter. If people dont like you, they wont read your post's and thus you get no discussion, we have to think about other peoples responses to our opinions before we put them here,
I just think you could of had a discussion without being patronizing at the same time. I completely agree with you. I was finding what i believe to be wrong in his religion and if someone here does not think slavery and stoning of non believers is wrong then please say so. As for thinking about the other persons feelings or the likes i think i responded to that in my previous post. As for being patronising or acting condecening if you mean against the person in the msn convo i was simply well prepared for the discussion having just written an essay on it. If you mean against dane i was simply responding with the same manner of rhetoric he used. I believe using rhetoric as i lost whatever respect i had for you would by most also be considered patronising. Shouldn't this thread get back to discussing religion instead of trying to tell me how much of a bad person i am ? _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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im all for friendly discussion, but its clear in your conversation you didnt try and debate with him, you was finding what you believe to be faults in his relgion and throwing them in his face. Thats just rude and however much you dont mind people losing respect for you doesnt really matter. If people dont like you, they wont read your post's and thus you get no discussion, we have to think about other peoples responses to our opinions before we put them here,
I just think you could of had a discussion without being patronizing at the same time. _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Shar - Ex-Student
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Simply stating that something is weak with the only reason being "it hurts feelings" isen't really a valid argument.
Loss of respect doesn't consern me. Should we avoid all discussions that might led into people having a reaction ? People seem to have for to little reactions today it's all "don't bother" "Youre just wasting your time" as the standard response to anything that might require them to contemplate their current way of life. Let me quote Nietzsche. And thus spoke Zarathustra to the people: It is time for man to fix his goal. It is time for man to plant the seed of his highest hope. His soil is still rich enough for it. But that soil will one day be poor and exhausted, and no lofty tree will any longer be able to grow there. Alas! there comes the time when man will no longer launch the arrow of his longing beyond man -- and the string of his bow will have unlearned to whiz! I tell you: one must still have chaos in oneself, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you have still chaos in yourselves. Alas! There comes the time when man will no longer give birth to any star. Alas! There comes the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself. Lo! I show you the Last Man. "What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?" -- so asks the Last Man, and blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the Last Man, who makes everything small. His species is ineradicable as the flea; the Last Man lives longest. "We have discovered happiness" -- say the Last Men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it is hard to live; for they need warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him; for one needs warmth. Turning ill and being distrustful, they consider sinful: they walk warily. He is a fool who still stumbles over stones or men! A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And much poison at the end for a pleasant death. One still works, for work is a pastime. But one is careful lest the pastime should hurt one. One no longer becomes poor or rich; both are too burdensome. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too burdensome. No shepherd, and one herd! Everyone wants the same; everyone is the same: he who feels differently goes voluntarily into the madhouse. "Formerly all the world was insane," -- say the subtlest of them, and they blink. They are clever and know all that has happened: so there is no end to their derision. People still quarrel, but are soon reconciled -- otherwise it upsets their stomachs. They have their little pleasures for the day, and their little pleasures for the night, but they have a regard for health. "We have discovered happiness," -- say the Last Men, and they blink. _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Rinzler - Student 
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really weak thread shar, i'd like to say something like "i used to have respect for you man" but I don't know that I did or anything. Bringing up religion as a topic in any discussion is really poor and its like playing monopoly, you always end up in fights with your friends. Live and let live kids.
-Dane 'The Dane Train' Train S. Trainington of Danesbrough _______________ I fite for teh usars!1 |
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Shar - Ex-Student
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Theese are all valid points about religious discussion however this is not a discussion between two religions it is about only one.
Also the people who say bush is a tard or idiot are only showing themself as being one. You can not be able to fly a higly advanced jet fighter if you are a idiot. He might be higly non eloquent and i do not agree on his politics but i can hardly say he's a idiot. Also this is not me trying to make anyone abandon their faith it is just me trying to say that "My Opinion" is that todays modern christian faith has to such a degree been watered down by politic attitudes that it no longer has the right to call itself by the religion it is based on. No Flame. No Lame. No Game.  _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. This comment was edited by Shar on May 08 2007 01:17pm. |
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St3@1th - Student 
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What is there to argue about? If you have to argue with each other about certain points in eachothers religion should you not ask yourself could there be truth in what each person is saying. Thus should we not look into what the other person has said rather than argue against it. No religion can say that they are right or wrong in there beliefs as imperfection lead to different interpretations. Are any religions rights ? we see all of these factions doing things which is against the bible. I feel that only in our selves can we decide what we interpret to be right or wrong and as long as we have faith that surly is the single point that is important as even if you win the argument there is no way of knowing which is right. _______________ www.destructiveforce.co.uk |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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I practice atheism. Religiously. My reasons are my own, however, and I do not impose them on anyone. There's a quote attributed to Jeff Dee: "Disagreeing with someone's absolute moral or religious beliefs is almost always taken as a flame, no matter how politely phrased." That is only part of it, though. The rest would only fuel the flames, I'm afraid. So I leave it out, but you can look it up. _______________ make install -not war This comment was edited by Bubu on May 08 2007 06:33am. |
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Falor Windrider - Student 
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Yeah, religious arguments are like running around around in circles. Neither side ever backs down, so you end up exactly where you started: a bitter argument and two angry dudes (or chicks).
With that said, I was a Hindu for most of my life, though I don't actively practice the religion anymore, nor do I believe in God anymore. Regardless of that, I don't have any qualms about having religious friends, whether they're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc. _______________ Jedi Knight of the Jedi Order [JO] www.thejedi-order.com |
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Sauce - =^.^= 
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arguing about religion is bad drama. i say if believing in a religion makes your life and those of the people around you better, good for you! be excellent to each other.
whether or not some of us are damned is another story har har. edit: and that's a long ass convo This comment was edited by Sauce on May 07 2007 11:34pm. |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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Although my dad's side of my family is devoutly Catholic (One of his cousins is a nun, and the other a Priest who was well known here in Scotland as a writer in a newspaper as well!). Despite this, I consider myself agnostic, and I guess i'm still trying to explore my beliefs.
Despite how much of a fool I can be, I can guarantee you all that I've learned to tolerate and respect ALL faiths, so long as they do not contradict the law. For an example, one of my closest friends is Muslim, and while I greatly respect her and her beliefs, I have little to no respect towards jihadists. Haaji can go puff my weenie. 
But yeah. Let's just remember that despite our beliefs, we're all human. These kind of subjects have proven to result in angry nerds in the JA's history, so let's just respect eachother and be very careful about what we say. |
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JP - Academy Pimp 
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Argueing about religion is like fighting yourself, you both lose...religion should never be discussed cause all religions contradict each other so none of them are right....
imo...go discuss how much of a tard Bush is or something...its much more fun seeing Buzz pwnin everyone with facts rather than some opinionated BS aka religion...oh and im a Christian and my cousins a priest...religion talk only works within the same religion...i dated a jewish chick once...that got bad fast, go argue bout something else before it gets ugly. _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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SaZ - Student 
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Quote: If you are not a hardcore fundamentalist you are not a christian.
what the... _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Shar - Ex-Student
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No what im trying to say is that if you take parts here and there of a religion but lets ignore this piece right here it kinda falls apart and becomes more of a lifestyle in my opinion. _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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'I can still say i can see valid points in your argument about the credibility of the current scripture but i still believe that there is a difference between a religion and a lifestyle.
Seeing as the current christian community seem to consider theese parts of the bible unneccesary i still believe christianity as it is now is more a lifestyle than a religion.' Then I'm afraid I think you have set up your argument unfairly. You appear to be arguing that either a) Christians interpret the Bible which means they are not following a proper religion or b) Christians take the Bible entirely literally and reach conclusions which do not suit your 'lifestyle' which is wrong. The reality is that the majority of Christians do not fit into either of these caricatures. _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre This comment was edited by Lirael on May 07 2007 03:37pm. |
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Shar - Ex-Student
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Ah kinda reminds me of Nietzsches argument about one definition of the world being wrong therefore making it likely that all of them are.
As you might have noticed my knowledge of biblical history is not the greatest. I can still say i can see valid points in your argument about the credibility of the current scripture but i still believe that there is a difference between a religion and a lifestyle. Seeing as the current christian community seem to consider theese parts of the bible unneccesary i still believe christianity as it is now is more a lifestyle than a religion. _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council
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I'm afraid you have missed my point. After Harnack and particularly Bultmann's liberal approach to scripture, many fundamentalist Christians had the same concern as you - if we say this isnt strictly true, how can we justify anything being true?
My point is that the fundamentalist approach is not completely sound either as it implicitly denies free will which is essential in many other Christian arguments such as Augustine and Irenaeus'/Hick's theodicies. 'Also if leviticus is the words of god how does christians believe themself to be above his law ?' Firstly, you are again assuming the Bible is to be taken completely literally. Secondly you are still confusing the Old with New Testament even though 'don't start a band...' had originally pointed out that Leviticus is the third book in the Old Testament. It is part of the Torah - it is primarily Jewish Scripture as Christians believe that the old covenant which was made in the Torah has been replaced with the New Covenant as in the New Testament. Thus Christians do not see themselves as above the law, only that the law was reinterpreted by Jesus. This is shown by his criticism of the Pharisees 'This people honoureth me with their lips but their heart is far from me' (Mark 7:6) This is because although they claimed to keep the 10 commandments (and the other 603 implicit commandments in the Torah) they created many other laws to protect these commandments so that they could not even inadvertantly be broken. Yet this resulted in their man made laws being upheld with greater stringency than the 'God given' laws in Exodus 'Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men...And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition' (Mark 7:7,9) Examples of this would be the Sabbath Laws and Corban. I shan't lay out these disputes here as this post is already long enough, but again if you are not familiar with them, please don't hesitate to ask _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre This comment was edited by Lirael on May 07 2007 03:09pm. |
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Shar - Ex-Student
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Well theese quotes aren't all from leviticius they are spread out between both testaments.
So if then the words of gods are imperfect wouldn't that pretty much sink the whole religion ? Or did i misunderstand your argument ? I have read the full contexts of all the quotes i used but during this msn convo i was using quotes gathered on www.godisimaginary.com so there might be some parts skipped between them. If you feel anything is taken out of context feel free to post them in their entirety. Also if leviticus is the words of god how does christians believe themself to be above his law ? _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. This comment was edited by Shar on May 07 2007 02:54pm. |
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Jaiko D'Kana - Student 
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Hey guys, your friendly neighborhood jaiko here....
I dont claim to have read this thread in detail yet, nor do i wish to add to the topic of conversation. However, i do wish to request that all members participating in this debate are VERYcarefull. Religious debates are bound to be incredably biased and if you arnt intending to be open minded about anothers views then your presence in such a convo is simply not required unless you wish to destroy or contradict anothers beliefs which honestly is very dangerous. Im happy to let this continue on the basis that NO flaming of any sort is contained within the convo that follows this post. If you can't post any responce other than that of hate....take a time out before you return. Sorry for such a harsh tone, i wish you all the best in your discussion and please take into account what i have said. Stay safe guys -JaikoD'Kana- _______________ The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitudes of mind. William James (1842 - 1910) |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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Charles C Ryrie is a leading contemporary christian fundamentalist theologian. He is quoted as saying 'I believe in the verbal, plenary, infallible, unlimited inerrancy of the Bible'
In other words he is what you would call a 'proper' Christian - he takes it completely literally. Lets look at the implications of this view - although fallible humans recorded the Bible, no error has ever crept in. Then what is the role of these human 'authors'? They are little more than typewriters. This suggests that they are lacking free will. Free will is essential to 'proper' Christian doctrine. Thus 'Christian fundamentalism' that sees the Bible as 100 percent literally can be seen as a contradiction and as such interpretation is completely legitamate. May I also point out that the way you have quoted, particularly Paul on the role of women out of context and conveniently left out what he goes on to say about men is also an interpretation. If you don't understand the context of your quotation or the relevance of what he goes on to say about the role of men, please dont hesistate to ask _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre This comment was edited by Lirael on May 07 2007 02:44pm. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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Quote: Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life. - Leviticus 25:44 Doesn't really leave much up to imagination. I eagerly await my next owning. Quote: Christians believe that Leviticus is the word of God, but generally do not consider themselves to be bound by all the laws prescribed by the text, due to the implied antinomianism in some passages of the New Testament, notably the letters of Paul. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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