| War in South Ossetia | |
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Ritualist - Student  |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008)
Quote: The 2008 South Ossetia War is a state of war between Abkhazia, Georgia, Russia, and South Ossetia that began in August 2008 following several days of heavy fighting between the Georgian army and South Ossetian militias. After agreeing to a ceasefire, on 7 August Georgia launched a surprise military operation to take the unrecognised Republic of South Ossetia (a breakaway region out of Georgia), saying that the action is a response to separatist attacks on Georgian villages, but South Ossetia denies that these attacks have occurred. On 8 August, Russia responded by moving its troops across the border, bringing tanks and artillery into South Ossetia.
According to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, Russia's intention is to defend the many civilians of South Ossetia who hold Russian citizenship. He said that it aims to force Georgia to accept peace and restore the status quo, and that it is acting within its peacekeeping mission in South Ossetia, and in line with the mandate issued by the international community. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili says his country is defending itself from Russian aggression and that Russian forces are bombing its civilian population. Quote: While Georgia has no significant oil or gas reserves on its own, it is an important transit route that supplies the West, and journalists expressed fear that the war may damage the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline, 30% of which is owned by BP. The BTC pipeline was shut down before the conflict and the war created further problems for the operating company. Georgia claims that Russia is targeting the pipeline.
Toughts? Effects for europe if Russia should get a control over Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline? Can this evolve to WW3? Interesting vids/pics http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26092138#26092138 http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/articleslideshow?articleId=USL768040420080808&channelName=worldNews#a=37 http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html#cnnSTCVideo This post was edited by Ritualist on Aug 10 2008 01:26pm. |
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Pellinore - Student 
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Maybe not ww3, but a second cold war maybe.. there is this huge polarisation between different super powers.
In anyway, i hate it how western countries blame russia of everything, bush calls it bullying.. i wonder what his invasion in iraque was then, the man has the toungue of a snake.. _______________ The eternal quest for purpose. my art portfolio: www.redbubble.com/people/pellinore |
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Z�diac Grimclaw - Ex-Student 
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^^ _______________ Facta non verba. Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Timendi causa est nescire... |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Here's a site with a ton of informative links.
http://revokethegames.com/ And of course Thomas Sowell once again tells it like it is. [edit: fixed link] _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. This comment was edited by JavaGuy on Aug 20 2008 05:49am. |
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Komence - Student 
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in all honesty Zodiac, the war has been covered extensively in our newspapers and televisions. and the US is one of the world's major superpowers, i'm pretty sure if we wanted to find a goldmine of information about the war, we could. don't forget that we too have numerous (hundreds, at least) reporters over there as well. i don't think that the finding of information is going to be that tough. and that goes for just about any nation, not just the US. with today's technology, information travels very fast. |
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Z�diac Grimclaw - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Quote:
wheres the moral in this some might say ? simple. we ( my country ) see the russians as a VERY possible threath in the early future, thats why we try to gather as much info as possible, while onther countries who are and will not be affected by this are focusing on other manners. So tell me why you think russia has or should have any interest in your country whatsoever. I hope you are aware of the fact that they don't invade countries out of caprice. "who knows, maybe russians want to regain theyre influence zone they once had before WW2" russians allways wanted somekind of way to the baltic ocean and allways wanted to the teh baltic countries in ww2. and thats the point why the suspission of ww3 is occuring. maybe russia wants the ocupate countries near russia to make a front similar to the one in ww2 when russia and germany began theyre big war. in this situaction, germany would become EU and NATO Quote: Ever heard of bias and how it affects credibility? Not to mention all the dubious claims that you cannot confirm outside of your own peculiar agenda-laden sources.
nor im trying to say our info is teh best source, i only say that our info is no worse than anyothers and we are no better, nor worse than any other country. Quote: True, the US doesn't give a damn if russia is threatening NATO members with invasions or nuclear strikes and therefore doesn't provide the public with updates. Are you serious?
and why did u skip the "dont know, and i dont state anything about america but i bet americas newspapers arent filled so much about the conflict in georgia as much as the countries near russia. eg: where do u think u will get better info ? from a country where war is just outside the window ( georgia for example ) or a country who is like a million miles away ;P" ^^ Quote: Please point out to me where i said that your language makes your sources inaccurate. I said that your credibility will be undermined if you cannot back up the claims of a single source with further references, especially when we're talking about something as crucial as a revision of the NATO constitution, which would be in the newspapers all over the world.
maybe i should search for more sources yes. revision of the NATO constitution... doesnt sound cruel to me ;P and there we go again: "i dont know, and i dont state anything about america but i bet americas newspapers arent filled so much about the conflict in georgia as much as the countries near russia. eg: where do u think u will get better info ? from a country where war is just outside the window ( georgia for example ) or a country who is like a million miles away ;P" maybe some news arent so important on the other part of the world as much as on the other. Quote: I thought he "decplaires that tehre might be a "little" change in the fifth article " - that seems fairly clear to me. And you want me to take you and your sources seriously?
that might be OUR mistakes. myne, for not being good writing sarcastic thoughts. and you, not being able to understand them ( no offence ). tough i should have used another word than "declaired" but "well, i did say that some kind of high ranked guy told this (dont ask for his exact rank cuz i dunno how it is in english), but this was not declaired as law or something. he just only gave an interview from his possition and oppinion" ^^ _______________ Facta non verba. Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Timendi causa est nescire... |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: BUT, would another, neutral, person gather info when it has no actual difirence to him ? in my oppinion NO. You're right. Noone cares about Iraq, and noone really cared about the previous gulf wars anyways.
Quote: wheres the moral in this some might say ? simple. we ( my country ) see the russians as a VERY possible threath in the early future, thats why we try to gather as much info as possible, while onther countries who are and will not be affected by this are focusing on other manners. So tell me why you think russia has or should have any interest in your country whatsoever. I hope you are aware of the fact that they don't invade countries out of caprice.
Quote: e.g: i gather info from the site Delfi.lt witch yes, it is in lithuanian but what ? our info is not acurate or good enough for somebody ? Ever heard of bias and how it affects credibility? Not to mention all the dubious claims that you cannot confirm outside of your own peculiar agenda-laden sources.
Quote: witch means everyday we get NEW info about it and we will continue to gather new info everyday because we are conserned about it and even more than any other country lets like in america. True, the US doesn't give a damn if russia is threatening NATO members with invasions or nuclear strikes and therefore doesn't provide the public with updates. Are you serious?
Quote: all i say, is that we are trying harder than anyone else to get info, and if u think that our language makes our info not acurate enough, thats discrimination Please point out to me where i said that your language makes your sources inaccurate. I said that your credibility will be undermined if you cannot back up the claims of a single source with further references, especially when we're talking about something as crucial as a revision of the NATO constitution, which would be in the newspapers all over the world.
Quote: well, i did say that some kind of high ranked guy told this (dont ask for his exact rank cuz i dunno how it is in english), but this was not declaired as law or something. he just only gave an interview from his possition and oppinion. I thought he "decplaires that tehre might be a "little" change in the fifth article  " - that seems fairly clear to me. And you want me to take you and your sources seriously? _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Aug 19 2008 10:21pm. |
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Z�diac Grimclaw - Ex-Student
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here is another long one i think
for example, if you were in trouble, would you gather info about ur foe/enemy/bad guy ect. ? well i would, by seeing what he is doing to others and cauculating the possibility when it will be my turn i try to gather as much info as possible. BUT, would another, neutral, person gather info when it has no actual difirence to him ? in my oppinion NO. wheres the moral in this some might say ? simple. we ( my country ) see the russians as a VERY possible threath in the early future, thats why we try to gather as much info as possible, while onther countries who are and will not be affected by this are focusing on other manners. e.g: i gather info from the site Delfi.lt witch yes, it is in lithuanian but what ? our info is not acurate or good enough for somebody ? if so, that kind of thinking is called discrimination. just because u cant read the language doesnt mean the info is not acurate enough, in fact, the very first 25 articles are practily entitled something like "georgia vs. russia and whos next ? ". and these articles change EVERYDAY. witch means everyday we get NEW info about it and we will continue to gather new info everyday because we are conserned about it and even more than any other country lets like in america. i dont know, and i dont state anything about america but i bet americas newspapers arent filled so much about the conflict in georgia as much as the countries near russia. eg: where do u think u will get better info ? from a country where war is just outside the window ( georgia for example ) or a country who is like a million miles away ;P dunno, there might be an english site with all the acurate info in english but in my oppinion, the best info is held by the ones who are in the most dangerous possitions during this conflict. so dont say that our info is bad or anything, tough im not saying ist like the best info on the world. all i say, is that we are trying harder than anyone else to get info, and if u think that our language makes our info not acurate enough, thats discrimination tough personaly ill try and find some english sources ^^ Quote: You can be absolutely sure that i wouldn't trust -any- news site, no matter where it is located, if it were the sole source amongst all the news site around the world that claimed NATO revised their constitution because they were afraid of nuclear war.
Would you? well, i did say that some kind of high ranked guy told this (dont ask for his exact rank cuz i dunno how it is in english), but this was not declaired as law or something. he just only gave an interview from his possition and oppinion. of yeah, forgot to mention that the fifth aticle also states that the NATO countries can only defend other countries if ALL other NATO members aggree. so yeah, now we rly feel safe ^^ Quote: Quote:
its ONLY A RUMMOR that ive heard, but sometime before the conflict Russias idiot president and Bush had somekind of a secret or not, but a meeting witch is not officialy pubilicated ;P THATS ONLY A RUMMOR didn't you hear? all americans are indeed corrupt and evil. global domination really is our plan. im not saying americans are bad or anything, but i DID say that this IS A RUMMOR. so no need to take it sarcasticly or personaly ;P i hope this big post anwsered my oppinion about the questions regarding the info like: Quote: you know how to source a claim?
You need to provide somesort of reference here, since everyone can just claim to have heard things on TV. Quote: But seriously, it should be on news all over the world since declared war isn't something that happens everyday.
Quote: Saz, i can't take claims of anti-russian baltic unions or revisions of the NATO Constitution seriously if you do not provide me with an adequate source, and by source i mean to the news article that states those kind of things. 'I heard it on TV' or 'i read it on www.newssite.com' is no reference!
and btw, where DO YOU gather info if not from tv, newspapers, internet news sites ;P _______________ Facta non verba. Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Timendi causa est nescire... This comment was edited by Z�diac Grimclaw on Aug 19 2008 09:40pm. |
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SaZ - Student 
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hmm... well actually apart from growing aggression towards baltic countries from russia and some other simmilar stuff.. i didnt hear much else. the whole nato thing for example. lol
so yeah i guess you are right. still we are worried, because we were attacked by russia in a simmilar way like 17 or so years ago. the influence that damn country has on every surrounding country cannot be denied. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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You can be absolutely sure that i wouldn't trust -any- news site, no matter where it is located, if it were the sole source amongst all the news site around the world that claimed NATO revised their constitution because they were afraid of nuclear war.
Would you? _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: Saz, i can't take claims of anti-russian baltic unions or revisions of the NATO Constitution seriously if you do not provide me with an adequate source, and by source i mean to the news article that states those kind of things. 'I heard it on TV' or 'i read it on www.newssite.com' is no reference!
Also, if you can't reference it from anywhere but a lithuanian site, don't you think this undermines your credibility? hmm does that mean you only read worldwide news sites? you never trust your own countries websites and never watch news on your countries TV programs? O_o _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Saz, i can't take claims of anti-russian baltic unions or revisions of the NATO Constitution seriously if you do not provide me with an adequate source, and by source i mean to the news article that states those kind of things. 'I heard it on TV' or 'i read it on www.newssite.com' is no reference!
Also, if you can't reference it from anywhere but a lithuanian site, don't you think this undermines your credibility? _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: Babelfish!
go find Lithuanian translator, id even thank you for that 
as for your later statement... well it seems that you guys only read zodiac's 'ww3 is coming' comment and then didnt read the long one. its all about the whole conflict thing which i read in my already said website and on TV news. then again... journalists are known to exagerate (if thats the right word) everything here in our country... _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Augusta_Mintaka - Student 
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Babelfish!
But seriously, it should be on news all over the world since declared war isn't something that happens everyday. _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." This comment was edited by Augusta_Mintaka on Aug 19 2008 07:42pm. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Do you know how to source a claim?
State sources, otherwise you're just putting forth unfounded assumptions and speculations.
pretty much all main news sites and TV in Lithuania. is that enough? ;D You need to provide somesort of reference here, since everyone can just claim to have heard things on TV. i could ofcourse say that i read that on www.delfi.lt (which is pretty much the best news site in Lithuania)... how would that help you if you cant read my language? _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote:
Quote: Do you know how to source a claim?
State sources, otherwise you're just putting forth unfounded assumptions and speculations.
pretty much all main news sites and TV in Lithuania. is that enough? ;D You need to provide somesort of reference here, since everyone can just claim to have heard things on TV. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: State sources, otherwise you're just putting forth unfounded assumptions and speculations.
pretty much all main news sites and TV in Lithuania. is that enough? ;D _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Aug 19 2008 06:29pm. |
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Komence - Student 
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Quote: WW3? Get a grip. This silly little conflict will be over in a month. and lol.
Quote: its ONLY A RUMMOR that ive heard, but sometime before the conflict Russias idiot president and Bush had somekind of a secret or not, but a meeting witch is not officialy pubilicated ;P THATS ONLY A RUMMOR
didn't you hear? all americans are indeed corrupt and evil. global domination really is our plan. This comment was edited by Komence on Aug 19 2008 04:26pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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State sources, otherwise you're just putting forth unfounded assumptions and speculations. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Z�diac Grimclaw - Ex-Student
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today there will be a NATO conference and the matter of the conflict and it spreading out of georgias walls witch might become so will be discussed.
Ukraina, Poland, and the baltic countries are suggesting a union of theyre own, to form a blockade incase of an russian atack cuz all of these countries gave theyre oppinion regarding russias most aggresive attack against georgia. russia wasnt happy and even prommised that these counties will pay for this. all these countries are all in danger cuz they have the highest possibility of being atacked. who knows, maybe russians want to regain theyre influence zone they once had before WW2 ended but things dont look good. of course, these countries might seem safe cuz they belong to NATO or EU. NO ! There is some kind of the Fifth article regarding that "one for all and all for one". explanation. if one of the protected countries get attacked, others will help. and guess what ? now some high-rank guy ( i dont know how to tell his possition in english) decplaires that tehre might be a "little" change in the fifth article as he said, he thinks if russia attacks little countries like estonia, latvia or lithuania, NATO wont help cuz if they attack russia, that will bring the nuclear war and they think that these little countries are not worth it. as far as i heard, russia has been prepairing for something war-like for a couple of years and look now. the attacks in georgia were to well planned. some countries started to think that russia provoked the conflict. there was an order to stop the attacks in georgia. AND WHAT ? everyday, hundreds of ppl die. whos next in russias list ?? my country is talking about military mobilization. thats as far as i know now. i dont know whats gonna be in the future but its not gonna be pretty. thats my oppinion
EDIT: Quote: actually ww2 started quite simmilary... however unless they have some hidden ally... i doubt ww3 is going to start.
its ONLY A RUMMOR that ive heard, but sometime before the conflict Russias idiot president and Bush had somekind of a secret or not, but a meeting witch is not officialy pubilicated ;P THATS ONLY A RUMMOR _______________ Facta non verba. Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Timendi causa est nescire... This comment was edited by Z�diac Grimclaw on Aug 19 2008 01:54pm. |
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SaZ - Student
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little conflict? lol
if hundreds of people killed, half of the country destroyed and raided looks like a little conflict... i bet it doesnt look like that for those who live there. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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WW3? Get a grip. This silly little conflict will be over in a month. |
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Z�diac Grimclaw - Ex-Student
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i see WW3 cooming _______________ Facta non verba. Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Timendi causa est nescire... |
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SaZ - Student 
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Quote: tough our prezident said that theyre not happy with the way russians are acting ect. russians of course heard that and now theyre gonna punish my country so to speak ;P
as far as i know, our country helped transport georgia's troops from iraq (or whatever they were) so yeah... we gonna be punished. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Z�diac Grimclaw - Ex-Student
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tough our prezident said that theyre not happy with the way russians are acting ect. russians of course heard that and now theyre gonna punish my country so to speak ;P _______________ Facta non verba. Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Timendi causa est nescire... |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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Beyond the fact that one country has invaded another I fail to see any resemblance to WW2. _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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