| Jesus Christ | |
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Rainer - Student |
Plain and simple, I want your opinions on the following things. Please give me reasons behind your beliefs. I may or may not post my standings on the matter. I just recently resigned from such a topic on another forum because it was taking up too much of my time writing replies. I've just grown curious about how the people of the Academy view Jesus, especially after seeing MINDofSIN's profile pic. Your beliefs regarding him. - Are you a Christian? If so, why? Oh and if your an agnostic, I would rather this conversation stray away from a long debate on whether or not the truth on the matter is knowable. For this topic the term Christian should be applied to someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and who has committed their life to Him. Who was He? - This includes who do you think He thought He was. If you state that He thought Himself to be a prophet, give me reasons. If you state He thought himself to be God, again, give me reasons. If you state he never existed, you best present evidence on the matter because that is easily refuted. What of his Resurrection? - The most important story of Christianity, without this Christian Faith is in vain. Refute it or Defend it. Please make sure you are actually refuting it or defending it, and that you are not just making empty comments. I do not want an analysis of Christianity or religions in general. I do however want an analysis of Jesus Christ Himself, be Him man or God. I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again, do not make empty comments. Oh yeah, and be civil. The last thing I want is a flame war between believers and non-believers. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James This post was edited by Rainer on Oct 10 2003 05:12pm. |
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Rainer - Student |
Back again, and I still haven't read everything, lol. Gentlemen Loser, can you give me a reason why the Bible, the New Testament in particular, is not trustworthy? EDIT: As far as the finite not understanding the infinite arguement, here is an analogy I once read. A man finds a bear in a hunter's trap. The man feels compassion for the bear and trys to let him go. The bear is hostile and won't let him get close, he thinks the man is attacking him. The man then shoots the bear with drugs, and the bear still thinks he's attacking him. The man finally saves the bear, yet the bear thought all along the man was trying to hurt him. If an animal can have a lesser understanding than man, then it is entirely possible that man has a lesser understanding than God. I don't like that reasoning, because I don't like to think that there are things that I can't understand, but it still stands true. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James This comment was edited by Rainer on Oct 26 2003 04:49am. |
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MINDofSIN - Student 
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omg *eagerly awaits responses* _______________ Jedi Academy Holocron http://jaholocron.ryanmh.com/ Why should our government send our soldiers to foreign soil to protect freedom of speech, when our freedom of speech is being taking away everyday by the same government. |
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Gentleman Loser - Ex-Student 
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If I was going to be cynical, I'd say god is like santa for adults. _______________ "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" Bhagavad Gita & J. Robert Oppenheimer |
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 - Student |
Austin 3:16 : I just kicked your ass! Oh hell yeah!  |
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Sared - Retired 
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One last *BUMP*?  _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Sared - Retired 
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*BUMP*!!!! _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Sared - Retired
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*bump* Props to ya badger! _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Badger Hat - Student 
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I'm kinda busy right now, but I am a Christian, and not ashamed. (Rom. 1:16) _______________ RL bro to HawkJedi Chuck Norris pwns!(duh) Proud member of Yeah, it's a hat. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I just realize that I never really answered Ranja's forum questions. LOL I kinda did with posting scripture because it gives us a look at God's wisdom. As far as being a Christian is concerned, No, I don't believe that I am one. Not a true one anyway. Reason why I say that is because I believe one would have to be truely saved by God to qualify as a true Christian. In 1 John 3:9 we read: 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God. Also in Psalm 119:10&11 we read: 10) With my whole heart I have sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. 11) Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. And in 1 John 2:3-5 we read: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. I don't keep God's commandments not because I don't want to but because I'm a man. It's in my nature to rebel against God. Even if I did live my life according to His Word from this day forth, how am I going to pay for my sins? No, I will wait for God, if it is in His perfect will, to save me and make me to not sin against Him for I do not wish to deceive myself. Because of this simple fact that I sin day in and day out, I know that I'm not saved as of yet and therefore don't call myself a Christian. I do however read God's Word and I pray for His mercy. Who was Jesus? None other but the only begotten Son of God. The Bible tells us that within Jesus dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily. God knows the beginning from the end and He knew perfectly well that mankind would rebel against Him knowing that this would set up the greatest demostration of His love for us. All of us as a whole should be destroyed instantly for rebelling against The Almighty God, creator of the Heavens and the Earth. We should be trembling with fear before God for sinning. Just try to imagine how aweful hell is going to be. Here's God, who created everything around us, everything that we can't even totally explore or possible come close to understanding everything, by speaking and bringing it all into being within 6 days time. Look at our ecosystem before man destroyed it and how it is still somehow balanced today. Look at the solar systems and how the planets stay their courses. This same God will create a super punishment for each and every person who isn't saved and this terrible punishment with last for the rest of eternity. This life time will be nothing more then a drop is to an ocean looking down all eternity. Trust me when I say this, no matter how bad you think life is, no matter how bad your down and out, nothing here on this planet in this life time will even amount to anything compared with the supreme awefulness of hell. Please keep reading your Bibles everybody. I don't want to think of any of you going to hell. Please put yourselves in the environment in which God saves. Get to know God and maybe just maybe in His Great Mercies He might save you too. God knowing that no one could bear the aweful penelty of God's wrath, He took the sins of many, in the human form of Jesus Christ, to bear the sins of those that He had elected to salvation. Christ's resurrection was a sign to show that He was being made a curse for us. In Galations 3:13 we read: 13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: His physical death wasn't the payment for our sins for before He died on the cross, He said it is finished, (John 19:30). Also in the garden of Gethsemane He began to pay the terrible price for He was in agony and His sweat fell like great drops of blood, (Luke 22:42-44). So to who Jesus was, He was the Son of God, son of man. He had to take on a human nature in order to qualify Himself as a substitute to pay for the elects sins but never ceased being Eternal God. How truely wonderful that we have a God willing to do this for us!!!!!!! Simply amazing. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Sared - Retired
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Oh, on a side note, if human beings used any more that twenty precent or so of our brains at a time, we would die before we turned twenty-five.  Human anatomy, fun stuff, check it out. _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Sared - Retired
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Made like a mirror to reflect his glory But the glass got smashed, bought a counterfeit story We gave into pride Sacrificed life, on that day we died inside Outside we ignited a rebellion, An infectious disease that labels us felons Cold and alone, ever wandering in search of a home Hearts breaking and shaking in time with our hearts vibrating We say bridges to yesterday are burned Seasons over, all those leaves have turned But we cannot look now We can only keep our gaze locked on the ground And here we stand with wide eyes as our world comes crashing down Who am I to say right ? Who am I to say you’re wrong ? Play judge, look you in the eye, Who am I to throw the stones I remember when trust went for free Sold for a smile on the face of a fantasy Truth found her home in the pages of fairy tales Decadent words formed the phrases for dreams that failed Now trust is a costly commodity Giving it away is the mark of absurdity And truth is a homeless traveler Hoping in the night to be found Who am I to say right ? Who am I to say you’re wrong ? Play judge, look you in the eye, Who am I to throw the stones And we wave goodbye to our innocence And we wave goodbye to our ignorance And we wave goodbye to our nursery mindsets Abandoning cribs of complacence -"Who am I" -38th Parallel Don't ask me why. I just felt like I should post that here. *shrug* _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. This comment was edited by Sared on Oct 21 2003 09:35pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Hey Bandit. In response to your last post, I don't think there could be anything on or in this world that could draw me to God. The Bible is really clear that God does all the work of salvation and if it is in His perfect plan, at some point when one is or has been under the hearing of his word he would feel drawn to God. That person would start asking questions and seek out the answers and the best place to look for the answers about God would be in His Word the Bible alone and in it's entirety. Even if you don't believe in God or salvation or Jesus or anything like that but still like to read, I would read the Bible. You know, just a chapter here and there. I think a good place to start is the new testiment because it reveals alot of the meanings in the old which could quickly be mistaken, but again it is God who works through His Word to achieve His perfect will. I think it would be so cool if everyone here would pick up a Bible preferably a King James version and just read a little bit now and again. I won't hurt anyone and I when I first started reading it thought it was a great read. Then my faith started to set in as I learned more and more because I don't think any man in his own mind over thousands of years could've wrote the Bible. It truely is an amazing book with a great amount of knowledge and wisdom in it even for someone who doesn't believe or doesn't want to believe. Just give it a try. It can't hurt. I would even buy the Bible for people if they didn't want to spend the money on it. It's that good in my eyes.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Oct 21 2003 05:17pm. |
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FaDed - Student 
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no, that post was a response to the discussion on the creation. not directed at anyone. |
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Bandit - Student 
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Was that post in response to mine? If so, I think you missed my point.... Let me ask you a question. If you had been raised as an atheist, and then at age 30 you were exposed to Christianity for the first time, what would convince you there is a God? _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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FaDed - Student
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"When plans for His atonement were made in the primeval councils in heaven, a portion of that planning centered on the creation of this particular earth, for it would require an at of divine architecture, followed by a process of physical construction. Without this earth, could Christ have been born to Mary in Bethlehem? Could He have died on the cross in Jerusalem? Could He have been resurrected from the tomb? Without this earth, would there have been Roman soldiers to nail Him to the cross and afterward to guard His tomb? Could He have manifested Himself physically to His disciples as proof of His resurrection? Would "the other" Mary have been in the garden on that first Easter morning to hear the angel say: "He is not here: for he is risen"? The special creation of this earth was a vital part of the plan of salvation. It had a particular purpose. It was no afterthought. Neither was it an accident of any proportion, nor a spontaneous development of any kind. It was the result of deliberate, advance planning and purposeful creation. The Divine Architect devised it. The Almighty Creator made it and assigned it to a particular mission. This earth was not designed merely as a home for mortals, however. Not at all. It has a greater destiny than that. This earth will not reamin in its present condition. It is to become immortal. It will pass through a refining process by which it will become a celestial globe and be like a Urim and Thummim in the skies. That will require further acts of divine creation, and, of course, ordinary common sense tells us that no spontaneous accident could porduce a change like that. The Savior will reside here when the earth is celestialized, and His Father will visit it from time to time. It will then be the eternal home of those who achieve celestial glory in the kingdom of God. Such is the final destiny of the earth. Such was the purpose God had in mind in creating it, for He planned it so in the beginning." -Mark E. Petersen, "Creator and Savior," Ensign, May 1983, 63- |
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Bandit - Student
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I've never understood the finite mind argument. I mean, just because there might be things incredibly more complex than we can understand does not mean we need to understand them in order to know they are there. For example, a dog cannot understand the thoughts going through my head when I design and build a house. All the math, all the language, and all the engineering skills needed are far beyond the comprehension of a dog. However, the dog is aware of me and the house. The dog doesn't have to understand how to build a house in order to understand we are there. In the same manner, I don't need to understand how or why a god built the universe. But I should be able to identify his existence, unless he is purposefully hiding himself from me. In which case, I would say there is nothing I can do about it and his existence is a moot point. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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Orion - Retired 
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At this point in the homosapians course of evolution we are not able to comprehend the infinite..also remeber that on average we use around 10% of our minds capacity. I believe that there are people out there who are able to use more of there mind and who knows what the are capable of _______________ When a Man lies he murder's some part of the world. These are the pale deaths which men misscall there lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home? -Cliff Burton Owner of Smily's 1900th comment | <Lady_Catherine> i love your sexy white socks! | (Lady_Catherine) i adore u! | (Lady_Catherine) onion (Lady_Catherine) i lub u |
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Sared - Retired
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Big Bang Theory: God spoke it and BANG, it was there! Seriously though, finite, limited beings such as us have no chance of understanding infinite things. Just try memorizing all the Japanese/Chinese written charachters. What is that, 2400 of them or so? _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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FaDed - Student
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Feh. i was mormon before doobie was! |
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MINDofSIN - Student
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*slaps Faded* Doobie is the resident Morman. You're his sidekick. Where did the incredibly small compressed universe that "dun got banged" come from? HMM? (I don't really have a point) _______________ Jedi Academy Holocron http://jaholocron.ryanmh.com/ Why should our government send our soldiers to foreign soil to protect freedom of speech, when our freedom of speech is being taking away everyday by the same government. |
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FaDed - Student
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hi. i'm FaDed, the resident Mormon. the reason we have science is because science fits our finite minds. we use science to explain the finite things of our world. things like weather, or human emotion. we even use it for infinite things like how the universe never ends. but the problem with science is that it can only be used to explain things that have a beginning point. a place in time where things began. science can not explain eternal matters that stretch infinitely forward and backward. our minds can not comprehend it. hence the need for the big bang theory. it creates a beginning point, where everything else stems from. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
EAF, you say "how could the Universe explode out of the surface of the head of a pin" (or something close to that, my memory isn't exactly the best). Well, where did God come from, then? If he just "was there", then I'm sorry, but that doesn't make the slightest bit more sense than the theory of Big Bang. PS: Don't pull an Einstein on me, he was nothing but a weird, old German without a comb! |
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Sared - Retired
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Quaker pride! Woot! _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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EAF_fencer3 - Student 
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First of all, I believe that God (or whatever you want to call your divine entity) exists. I am a Quaker, myself. ("Quaker Pride" ) Please note that I do not believe that there is no situation in which war is necessary. (unrelated, but still wanted to point it out) Anyway, Quakerism being a branch of Christianity, I do believe that Christ was the Messiah. The reason that I believe in god, besides the fact that I have all my life, is that there really is no other practical explanation for how the Universe was created. Jacen, I looked through this thread and dug up one of your old posts in which you said that we need to use science to prove the existence of God. Well, scientists haven't done a very good job of disproving his existence, either. Really, how could all of the matter in the universe explode out of a surface the size of the head of a pin? You think that makes more sense than God? pfff... "Religion without science is blind; science without religion is lame." -Albert Einstein _______________ |"Evacuate? In our moment of Triumph? I think you overestimate their chances."|"hurray broccoli!" -Tarpman| |Godson to Carve|Ward of Flamori|Brother to Gunrow| |
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Sared - Retired
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Religion and Beliefs. Two VERY different things. Go look the words up and get together a list of definitions and compare/contrast the two. I will post something later, just got in and need a nap first. _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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