| view on the war | |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student  |
If ya feel like venting about the war or any International conlfict or problem, just put it here._______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality. |
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Doppelgänger - Student 
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You know I just heard the other day that the U.S. has officially declared a seize count on the death toll of Iracs. Why would they do that? Don't those people matter too? Or are we being sheltered from the truth? _______________ "Look not back in anger, nor forward in fear But around you in awareness." Ross Hersey |
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Xipkell - Student |
Umm Buzz the oil for food program is not from the first gulf ocupation and as I said there have been 2-3 thousand who died from missfires. Does anyone know what the US Navy did during the last decade to enforce the sanctions? They stopped all ships carrying food for trade into and out of Iraq. And do you know what Iraq's only food export is? Dates.. DATES! Does that not tell you how poor that made Iraq. Yes they had oil but it was all state controled. They couldn't even make fair trades for food. Hence thousands starved to death . That would equal one or two small medium sized towns anywhere in the US or maybe 50 square blocks here in Chicago If that had happened here in the US the people would not have stood idley by but since it was in another country no one cared. This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 14 2003 05:13pm. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Xip, you do realize that there was an oil for food program going on over the past decade to feed the people of Iraq. The problem was that Saddam was still in power and he didn't care at all for his people. So the food didn't go to them. It went to helping his pockets get fatter. The mistake we made in the Gulf War is that we went in it for the wrong reasons. We went in to free Kuwait. Once we did that we left. We should have gone in to free Kuwait and remove Saddam from power. And how poorly executed was the battle plan? How many civilians actually died? How many historic areas in Iraq were left standing and undamaged after the building right next to them was turned into rubble. Just a few years ago there probably would have been double the casualties that there were. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Moridin - Student 
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Xip, I understand your points, and I agree with them. We, as a country,have done wrong things in dealing with the Middle East. Just look at hte Gulf war. Instead of deposing Hussein's government when we had the chance, we simply pulled out. We left our allies there in the dust, and when they tried to attack, he commited Genocide against their race. That was terrible on our part. And yes, teh innocent civilians who died in the war is horrible, and maybe some of them could have been avoided, but he also used civilians as bodysheilds. Anyway, i don't htink we're going to find a "perfect" solution, but we have to do what we can... _______________ Bros. with Janus, Leif, Motrec, Aiden, 3th, Zertz, Kenyon, and Vladarion. b00m! Banana Brother to Garos |
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Stimpski - Student 
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Well, now that Saddam has been captured, w00t!!!!!!! _______________ Stimpski (formerly known as DeathScythe many, many moons ago.) JA Forum ID - 3988 <insert generic &/OR witty tagline here> |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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War is Eeeeevvilll - LOL  _______________ Website |
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Furi0us - Student 
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Right on my brother! If you'll excuse me. *Steals a Hum Vee* *Drives off into the sunset* _______________ You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Everyone has brought up some valid points. I wholeheartedly agree with the humanitarian aspect in using necessary force. The problem is that the true reasons for entering Iraq were never humanitarian. It is awesome that the people don't live under a relentless dictator any longer! What about the poor souls who lost their lives because of poorly planned and executed strikes or erant missles and bombs. Thousands lost their lives because this whole situation was not dealt with properly. What also about the thousands who starved over the last decade due to the sanctions we had in place against Iraq? Are we to say that THE ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS? Are we to say WE ARE THE USA FOLLOW US BECAUSE WE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO ARE EVER RIGHT? I console myself with the fact that Sadam isn't in power but that does not rectify the situation. BTW the whole bay of pigs fiasco would have been avoided had the CIA taken out Castro properly and not botched the job. Better yet, if they had never gotten involved with the gambling empire that Cuba was before they placed Castro into power.  This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 14 2003 05:01pm. |
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Moridin - Student 
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The post said any other international event, so here goes. I'm tired of White and black slave trade in africa and other countries. I'm tired of children as young as 9 being used as cannon fodder in wars in Africa. I'm tired of Middle-Eastern women being abused and left with no rights. I'm tired of Muslems and Jews killing each other for no reason. I'm tired of people blinding themselves to what is really going on. When they raided Hussein's palaces, they found giant shredders used in the manufacturing of plastic. Except these weren't used on plastic. He shredded his enemies and their families into little bitty pieces. slowly. Maybey sometimes, the right thing to do is hard. Maybe sometimes, there isn't a huge end all battle against what is wrong. Maybe sometimes, all you can do is try and stop one person, at one time. and maybe people don't like it, and maybe you haven't done it all for the right reasons, but at least for once, the citizens of a country don't have to worry about being shredded or hunted or maimed. _______________ Bros. with Janus, Leif, Motrec, Aiden, 3th, Zertz, Kenyon, and Vladarion. b00m! Banana Brother to Garos |
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Furi0us - Student 
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I am the General. *kills George W. Bush* Enlist in my army! _______________ You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Yes Virus, American politics can suck at times. But it is a free country. I'm not saying American democracy is the god send to international politics. But I go to sleep at night knowing I don't have to worry about some tribal war going on outside my window, or worry about being ambushed on the road by some splinter military group. I don't have to worry about the people in my community starving because of some war lord taking all the supplies. Why? The people WILL NOT tolerate such things. That, and 1/2 the people in this country have there own guns.(I have 4 of my own)The "one" thing that I'm glad Bush made clear was that if someone attacks the US, they will deeply regret it. A mentality that I think all countries and it's people should have. "Defend your home at all costs" I've been to several countries. Mexico, and Panama are the worst I've seen. I wish others could experience the same freedoms. Thats where I think the US should play a role. Not in the military form, but in the relief form. People shouldn't have to flee their own countries to feel or be safe. Every person on earth should be able to have that feeling on there native soil. I am mostly against Imigration into this country(illegally), but when I see a boat load of people risking there lives and even their children's to cross an ocean on a wooden raft, just to get away from their country, I can't be mad. I say to myself "How desperate would I have to be to do something like that?" They just want their families and children to be safe. Noone should have to go to that measure. This is where I think the US should start playing a role. Instead of fighting other countries battles. These countries are going to fight, period. Going in and giving these countries weapons and war supplies isn't the answer. Look where it got us with Osama. Only when there is no other choice, should America use force. Some may disagree with that. But I, personally, won't sit by and watch some warlord slaughter and entire town because they don't believe what he does. A town full of women and children. I's sad that there are people on this earth that would do such things, but there are. Unfortunetly, I was never able to meet such a person while I was in the Army. I would love to have that notch on my M-16 Part of my point is: Countries need to look to their own issues first, and help others in matters that won't cause war. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Mitch - Student 
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JJ, it's us having the last word that keeps you, and the rest of the world safe. Where would we be right now if Kenedy didn't get the last word when there were Nuclear missles a few hundred miles off our shores? _______________ Power Preceived, is Power Acheived.' Brother to 3th, Janus, and Vlad. |
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Buzz - Student
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"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried." Winston Churchill. I like Vasper's idea right at the start of this thread. Have the US government stay out of the affairs of the rest of the world. In fact let's take it farther. Just screw the rest of the world. Kick the UN out of our country. Bring all of our troops home. I mean how bad will that be. So South Korea will probably disappear, so North Korea will have some nuclear bombs. Who cares right as long as we're fine in the US. Just let the world disintegrate into whatever it will become. Sounds good doesn't it? Right. As for what Billy said. He's right we do need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. But what is as soon as possible for this situation? After WW2 we were in Germany and Japan for a long time. They didn't even have functioning governments there for at least 7 years. There's a reference point for you to go on for ASAP. Also Billy the economy has been on the upswing lately. And as for your job field, how far away from home are you willing to get a job? Sometimes you have to be willing to relocate to wear the jobs are. JJ and Virus: The reason the United States gets a say so is not because its actually wanted, but who else will? In today's age how many countries would be involved with some treaties if the US wasn't on them. And its not a matter of fear its a matter of reassurance. No offense to you at all virus but do you think a lot of countries are interested that Estonia is in on a treaty that affects let's say central Africa? All I want is more truth in the planning of the war with Iraq (don't say oil). I don't really care what they are because quite frankly Iraq will be better off in the future without Saddam in power. Doesn't matter to me if it was because he had 10 years to get rid of all of his weapons, and probably would have made more the moment sanctions were lifted. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Zertz - Student 
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The problem with the West is Democracy. _______________ Some friends wear pants, some don't. |
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VirusD - Student 
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i hope same.Thats the problem with american politics they think their omg wow what great and powerfull .Bah! Pathetic _______________ '** I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me saying "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.**' '**On going to war over religion: "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend.**" '**I Dont Lie! I Just Bend And Illustrate The Truth A Little**' - By me when talking to a friend. |
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 - Student |
Who the fuck is George W. Bush to think that he can get the final word in every minor or major conflict in the world? I hope someone kicks 9 bells of shit out of him when he's out of office. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Sorry folks but I feel I have something other to say about this. I'm in the same boat as Billy. I'm starving because of this guy. One meal a day is all I can afford. Now at the same time the media (oh so liberal? HELL NO!!!) just follow the lies coming from the govenment. btw it will take another 9 years to reach the economic growth we attained before 9/11. Despite what we are being force fed to believe. As for the troops I was one of them US Navy to be exact. I was honorably discharged 3 years ago after serving 4 years active and 4 years inactive service, including the south east asia campaign( the original Iraq involvement). I feel ,very deeply, for my brothers and sisters over there for I am a vet. I never had a bad thing to say about them and never will. This is not about the troops themselves. I don't think there is a sane person who would say they're the problem. It is the liars in control of the whole thing that are the problem. Sadam was never the objective money was. If he was don't you think we would have found and killed him by now? One man is not that hard to find. Believe me I know what I am talking about. If you don't look at my service record. 'Nuff said. So to all who think this is a crusade against the troops pop your head out of the darkness and believe in your fellow man's ability for compasion and then look for those who do not have it. You will not have to look far. Just follow the food chain. Oh btw this whole trick of give the corporations breaks so that they spend money and it all trickles down doesn't work. Reagan proved that. I am more than willing to discuss this with anyone. I feel those who don't agree with me also have valid points and I am always trying to see both sides. PLEASE contact me. This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 13 2003 10:39pm. |
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Axion - Student 
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n the shadows where the heads hang low you hear voices as the wind blows asking "can't you see?" reminding you to breathe it's only time before it catches up to you and all your broken luck i found a better way to get even with my memory that said we've had enough please turn that f*cking radio off ain't nothing on the air waving the despair we feel NO! describes some of us here we've had enuff leave another poor third world country alone! _______________ Axion - Yeah. |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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I'm glad that Saddam is more or less out of power. We need to get out of Iraq (but I thank our men and women over there for fighting for our country) as soon as possible. Dubya needs to start worrying about HIS people. I haven't worked in my field (PC tech) in almost 2 years because I can't find work. I've had to work in fast food and retail just to make some money to pay my bills, keep my truck on the road and eat! (thank heavens for Ramen noodles) I probably will be filing for bankruptcy because I can't pay back my student loans and credit cards, I just can't afford it. Bush and his cronies don't really care too much about people like me because I don't make 6 figures! I'm fairly confident that he'll be out of office in the next election. The economy is absolutely horrible and he's not even close to finishing what he started in the middle-east! My 2¢ _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Mitch, the question is, when do you *know* they're rogues, and the probability of them attacking you is big, and when are you *assuming*? |
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Mitch - Student 
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What to say about the war...Well it sucks. I'm really mad about all these damned Democrats who bash Bush and the War. It's ridiculous, our troops are over there fighting and giving their lives while stupid suits sit in Washington and say its wrong and that the war is unjust and we shouldn't be there blah blah blah. The other day I was watching CNN and there was this really dorky looking guy in a suit and glasses on and he was from a Human Rights organization. He had the balls to sit there and talk about the statistics of how many Iraqi's our troop's are killing. He then went on to say that our troop's shouldn't be able to kill when they feel threatend, and that they were killing people without reason. Thats the biggest line of bullshi* I've ever heard. If our troops feel threatend they should be able to kill whoever they want. We are trying to help these idiots and they kill us for it! I don't understand that at all. My best freind Todd is in the USMC and has just received his orders to go over there. I'm really worried about it and watching the news makes me sick. To think that he will be in Iraq fighting and people back home will still be bashing the war is going to really piss me off. They have the luxury of being safe at home and haveing the freedom to do what they want while he will be over there protecting us and our rights and even still, people will still be spouting this anti-war crap. Hey, I got a good idea. Lets pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea and every other place we have troops and let those countries do whatever they want. Perhaps when someone parks a truck with a Nuclear bomb in there backyard they will realize how stupid they have been, this of course after they're dead. Grrr I hate stupid people. _______________ Power Preceived, is Power Acheived.' Brother to 3th, Janus, and Vlad. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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oh dear, another long-comments-topic _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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Thats right, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. But what do the people do? Revolt? Rebel against the government. US citizens don't have control over the country anymore. The politicians don't care what we say. They have there own agenda's. Unfortunatly a lot of it has to do with money. Example: mid to late 1990's, teachers pay raises were turned down by congress, then over the next 2 years the politicians recieves something like 4-6 payraises? I can't believe that we let this happen. But, how, can or what do we do about it? It's like their becoming a monopoly over the people. How do you stop a gov.? _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Dec 13 2003 06:05pm. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Well, what can I say. Lots but I won't take up too much space. This war has never been about Sadam Hussein. He hasn't had WMD's since we gave them to him in the mid 80's. Along with the key to Detroit. Given by the mayor of Detroit himself. The Taliban, our government put them in power. Right after flying them into the US for bussiness contract talks and training Osama Binladen. This has always been and will be about money. Let that sink in and then remeber that the christian God has called for more wars and wholesale slaughter over the course of human history than any other deity. Not to bash the church but if God really talks to all of these people then the Bible was wrong and the rich have a better chance of getting into heaven than you and I. Wars have always been about the poor fighting to make the rich richer and more powerful. Don't believe me? Who has Bush put in charge of Iraq? All of his old friends. From the civilian aspect to the Miltary to the companies supposedly rebuilding it. All friends or business partners from his life or his fathers. This is just a repeat of the way things have always been done. Nothing new to see and we the people of the US just sit and let Bush do as he pleases for he speaks to God directly. Never mind the fact that he has lied to us since the begining about everything. From WMD's to the Osama Sadam connection ,btw Osama has publicly stated that he hates Sadam more than the west. To the tubes for uranium centrifuges, that were actually so overly costly to convert that no one would have spent 6 times the amount of money to convert the wrong thing in the first place. To the false statments of Sadam hunting uranium in Africa, covert oppratives that worked on these cases have stated that he hasn't done this. And many many more lies have been said and are continually made up to cover the ones that have been proven to be false. All of this can be backed up by facts unfortunatly. When are then people of the world going to say "ENOUGH!!! I'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!". At this rate never. This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 13 2003 05:39pm. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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True. Something needed to be done about Sadam. But Bush didn't really try anything else. Yeah, he had the UN ppl in there looking for WMD. but he didn't even give them that much time before he went charging in. If he wants Sadam dead so bad, just send in assassins. Then let the country sort itself out. I don't know why we (USA) have to play police to the $hithole ends of the earth. I can see helping them with food or wut not, but let them deal with their own problems. Like these mid-eastern countries always fighting with one another. They have been at war with each other for centuries, killing each other back and forth. You'd think one of them would actually realize "hey, all this bloodshed isn't getting us anywhere. Maybe we should talk it out." Or you think they could learn to respect each other and seperate beliefs. But no, some Idiot screams "Alah" and somebody straps a bomb to their chest and gets on a bus. BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 16 ppl dead.*cycle starts all ovewr again* Just let em fight, one day their contries will be silent, silent because noone is left to throw the bombs, or blow up busses or market places, no more innocent ppl to murder. I don'tsee how they can say Islam(spelling?)is such a peacful religion when they can't even stop fighting with one another. It's very sad to watch and know that they could have peace if they really wanted it. But instead "CHOOSE" to continue bloodshed. I'm not trying to judge an entire culture. I know you can't base the actions of few on a preception of an entire people. But they do have the ability to change things. As do there goverments. As for the US, our gov needs to learn how to keep its nose out of other countries business. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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