| Bush vs. Kerry | |
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Halendor - ex-Student  |
I was just wondering, now it's final that Kerry is going to battle Bush in the elections, who would you vote for, and please tell us why. This post was edited by Halendor on Mar 05 2004 04:38pm. |
| Poll | ||
Who would you vote for?
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| Comments |
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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First of all, I didn't start this poll to predict the November elections, but to poll the opinion of the members of the Jedi Academy. And sure I know that's mostly young, gaming and living all over the world, but that doesn't matter. Quote: That's like saying "well, we lost the game by 20 points by putting in our star player, but we would have lost by 40 points if we didn't have him." You mean he actually did nothing good? Everything went wrong, but 'it could have been worse without him'? To stick with your metaphor, the star player isn't just a regular player, he's a star player. How does one become a star player? By doing really good stuff. Once you've proven yourself, you're allowed to make a mistake or two. But Mr Bush has not proven himself, and he hasn't proven himself during his own term (you said yourself it was hard to find something he did right), so I'm still not convinced. Quote: "I'm a Christian, I've read the Bible, and I know you can find the clauses that go both ways. I'm not here to argue that with you" -Kerry The bible can be interpreted in a gazillion ways. I bet that if you'd try hard, you would even find some text having a hidden meaning saying God didn't exist  This comment was edited by Halendor on Mar 09 2004 04:36pm. |
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Bandit - Student 
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Quote: Oh, and BANDIT.... Look up what the word "most" means. When I say "Most of you do not...." And you fire back that "I do", then YOU don not fall under the MOST. I still feel correct that MOST fall under the categories described. But not all. Maybe "most" and "all" are the same word in whatever language you speak. I just want to be nice and clarify that I meant different with the term "most". I wasn't trying to imply that you were referring to ALL of us as being in the same situation. I was merely pointing out that I met all the criteria that you seemed to point out as worthy of having merit in terms of political worth. You seem to have a predilection for arguing why you shouldn't argue the topic, yet you keep posting. Either we are worth the time, or we aren't. Since I do fall into the category of someone who is a US citizen who votes, has large investments, owns stock, has a successful career (making a good salary), it would seem I am the prime example of someone you should wish to convince. At least you could try your arguments out on me for no other reason than to sharpen and hone your debate tactics. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student 
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Ulic, he didnt really say that it sais homosexuality is cool in the bible did he. he only said you can look at some stuff written in there in different ways. I think som1 can find those for you  _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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If you really crack open Bush's stance on gay marriages, you might be surprised as to what his stance really is. I'm not going to do it for you, but actually look at the issue, and what is said. Also, it's difficult to come up with a lot of Pro-Bush things, because you need to prove that things could be worse. Which is hard. The dot-com bubble burst, we had corporate scandals, Sept. 11th happened, we're in war with Iraq, and Bush is the second president of all time to have an overall loss of jobs in his first term. So it's hard to prove that things could be worse if it weren't for Bush. We can't prove something that didn't happen, and can't prove a negative outcome. That's like saying "well, we lost the game by 20 points by putting in our star player, but we would have lost by 40 points if we didn't have him." Tough to prove. It'd be easier if the star player made them WIN all the games, and they would lose without home. Easier to prove, but still may be difficult. And to follow the Kerry and God / Religocity (Note: Religocity is not faith, but will be a big issue in the campaign) I have another quote. This one isn't reworded now. Apparently Kerry feels that you can't spell Bible Without 'bi'. Linked Here Quote: "I'm a Christian, I've read the Bible, and I know you can find the clauses that go both ways. I'm not here to argue that with you."--John Kerry on homosexuality, speaking at a black church in Tougaloo, Miss., quoted in the New York Times, March 8 You know, I should mail him a Bible and ask him to illustrate where it supports homosexuality. Actually, if anyone HERE can find it, the ACTUAL VERSES, let me know. Seems like Kerry is sitting on the fence again. Oh, and BANDIT.... Look up what the word "most" means. When I say "Most of you do not...." And you fire back that "I do", then YOU don not fall under the MOST. I still feel correct that MOST fall under the categories described. But not all. Maybe "most" and "all" are the same word in whatever language you speak. I just want to be nice and clarify that I meant different with the term "most". _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Bandit - Student 
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Quote: Most of you do not have career jobs I do. Quote: most of you do not have lerge investments I do. Quote: and most of you don't own any stocks Me again. Quote: Most of you are still under your parents insurance coverage, so your medical benefits come from your parents. Not me. Quote: When things like this become issues for you, then you might see things a lot differently. Like how, exactly? You mean we might vote for a president just because he promises us tax breaks? I'd hope not.. Quote: Youth tend to congregate to largely different issues than adults. Perhaps. But that doesn't mean youth are unable to have opinions on the manner. Quote: And since adults-who-don't-frequent-the-JA make up a bulk of the voting population, I am not worried by the results of the poll here. I don't think anyone seriously entertained the idea that a poll on this forum would serve as a sign from which an accurate prognostication could be made about the election results. It's simply whimsical and entertaining to know what the board members think. Edited to add: BTW, Kerry is winning 20 to 11!  _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) This comment was edited by Bandit on Mar 09 2004 02:57pm. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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I don't need to find a quote to prove bush is a homophobe.  He's dumb, but he's not that dumb enough to come out and say it. He is, however, willing to amend discrimination into the constitution. He supports a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the military. It seems like kind of a "I got no problem with gay people, just keep your fag perversions away from me" kind of thing. Perception is reality. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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OK, real quick: One: Commentary on the poll was commentary on the demographics. Which, for the most part, describes a good portion of the people here (Young/ International/ Gamers). So, since we have no way of knowing who votes, we can only assume that the poll is a sample of the JA population, which is Young/ International/ Gamers. We do have adults here, that do vote and are knowlegable, but I simply wished to point out that this poll is not reflective of the American voting public, and hence can't really reflect the November outcome. 2. As for my statement on limited time, etc. I'm not looking for gratitude, but rather trying to explain that I may not have the time to get into long, drawn out discussions. If I were to get into these long discussions, it would be for something I get paid to do. So basically, you guys get whatever free time I have. Not a bulk of my time trying to discuss things with you. And three: I'll put some pro-Bush up here if you so desire. I know I've posted Anti-Kerry, but no Pro-Bush, so I'm not very convincing. I'll try to also put out the real facts as to why people have reason to not like Bush. I'll put a portion facts out on the scale, and you can see how they weigh. I just need to get into both sides, I guess. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Kenyon, I didn't hear him discredit any of the people disagreeing with him. He was talking about the poll. where 20 out of 30 votes at the moment are going towards kerry. I don't see 20 comments from American citizens over the age of 18 disagreeing with Ulic. So his statement isn't false at all. Never did I directly said it was false. If that was the impression, my apologies. There are, however, plenty of adults in this thread disagreeing with him, and I was wondering why he made the comment regarding Halendor's poll. It's only self-serving and not particularly friendly to boot. Quote: Yes most of this poll reflects underaged or EU folk who dont know crap about kerry. I'm a few years older than you, Tallepyon, and I'm from the EU. I think you guys are severely underestimating how much we know about both candidates. If you don't think we're worthy of this discussion, don't reply to the thread. Halendor himself is Dutch, and I see him putting forward some very decent comments. Now, it's not our responsibility, granted. But the elections of a superpower like the United States reflect something on the rest of the world, and we recognize that. As such, I have done my research (hell, back when Bush had his elections, my research was my homework). Do the people here strike you as particularly superficial or unintelligent? I disagree. This comment was edited by Mookie on Mar 08 2004 11:10pm. |
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Tallepyon - Student 
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Yes most of this poll reflects underaged or EU folk who dont know crap about kerry. Dont vote against if you dont know about the other canidate. He could be a communist and half you wouldnt know Learn the facts. Btw: I am 17 now but i will be 18 before election. This comment was edited by Tallepyon on Mar 08 2004 11:06pm. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: You could use the neat "edit" function instead of spamming posts. Also, why do you insist on discrediting our member userbase? Is it a self serving argument? Why the self-justification? Obviously it doesn't serve any other reason.Edit: Also, it might be worthy to note that the people discussing and disagreeing with you here in this thread are mostly adults. Never assume. Discrediting the people who don't see eye to eye with you has been a major mistake in poltical campaigning that's frowned upon by those that would rather see a mature and serious promotion. Don't let yourself be subject to the same mistake. Kenyon, I didn't hear him discredit any of the people disagreeing with him. He was talking about the poll. where 20 out of 30 votes at the moment are going towards kerry. I don't see 20 comments from American citizens over the age of 18 disagreeing with Ulic. So his statement isn't false at all. conservative = all black and white liberal = all grey I think that's right. Those are the two poles of the magnet and most are in the middle. They see some stuff as black and white and other things as grey. And I do agree with Ulic about the anti-Bush stuff. I hear a lot of the rhetoric that you'll hear on television and in the news, but never strict facts. All I've heard about Bush's policy on homosexuals is that he doesn't believe they should be able to get married. If you have any evidence of him actually hating homosexuals then please bring it forward. I've heard Kerry really F up a word too. At least Bush knows he's screws them up and jokes about it. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Halendor - Ex-Student
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Yeah that money thing is so odd. On the Dutch news they said: "Kerry is going to have a tough time, because Bush has more money to spend on his campaign" So the amount of money is a big factor in who is going to win? That's just sad  |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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Just a few points: I can't see how my vote counts if I don't directly vote for someone. Sure, the members of the electoral college take an "oath" to vote for the candidate they say they're going to. However, all politicians take an oath when they get into office and they lie like no one's business! Not all the time, but they still do! Another problem with the "system", is the Two-Party System. True, there are more than just the Republican and Democratic parties, but unless they can spend an ungodly amount of money on a campaign, there is no realistic way that any of these minor parties stand a chance of winning. I recall hearing that Bush is spending $10 million on his campaign. THAT IS SICKENING!!! That's $10 million that could be used to feed starving people (yes, there are some here in the US), combat pollution, etc. (Don't even get me started on filthy rich celebrities). Quote: Conservatives == World is black and white Liberals == Everything is grey So saying that the world is not black and white depends on who you talk to, and where they are on the scale of Conservative-Liberalism. I believe that the truth lies somwhere in the middle. Some things are black and white, while others are grey, regardless of who you talk to. _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Halendor - Ex-Student
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Quote: I was not the one to reword it, but various sources have reworded it as such. [..]JOURNALISTS ARE WORTHLESS BASTARDS!!! NO BUSINESS DEALING WITH POLITICS, YOU BASTARDS!!! Then why do you use a quote that has been reworded by those worthless bastards? And even if other sources reworded it, it's still not fair to do it. Quote: And like I said before, I'm not going to invest too much time in you guys. OK, we got the message. Please stop trying to make us (or at least me) feel like we have to be ever so grateful for you, the all knowing Republican, to invest some time in us ignorant minors. Quote: [..] there's a quick Anti-Bush, happy? It's not that I'm not happy because you say nothing Anti-Bush, it's because you say nothing Pro-Bush. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student
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You could use the neat "edit" function instead of spamming posts. Also, why do you insist on discrediting our member userbase? Is it a self serving argument? Why the self-justification? Obviously it doesn't serve any other reason. Edit: Also, it might be worthy to note that the people discussing and disagreeing with you here in this thread are mostly adults. Never assume. Discrediting the people who don't see eye to eye with you has been a major mistake in poltical campaigning that's frowned upon by those that would rather see a mature and serious promotion. Don't let yourself be subject to the same mistake. This comment was edited by Mookie on Mar 08 2004 04:42pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Oh, ant this is how it is going to work out: Yeah, current poll here has Kerry with 64% of the vote. But, er, yeah, he gets 64% of a group that plays games online, is still mostly young, most of them too young to vote, and a bulk of them not from the country. So Kerry gets the majority of the Too-young-to-vote-or-not-from-this-country-or-apathetic-gamer-community. That'll win the November election. Sure. Most of you do not have career jobs, most of you do not have lerge investments, and most of you don't own any stocks. Most of you are still under your parents insurance coverage, so your medical benefits come from your parents. When things like this become issues for you, then you might see things a lot differently. Youth tend to congregate to largely different issues than adults. And since adults-who-don't-frequent-the-JA make up a bulk of the voting population, I am not worried by the results of the poll here. Oh, and not to mention how erroneous such a JA poll would be. I would not use it as any official basis. That's like the CNN online polls? Who do they poll? People who already have the internet, are always at CNN (concerned with news), and are concerned enough with the issue to cast a vote. Online polls tend to have a strong lack of credibility. So don't use the current poll as a basis for houw things are going to be. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. This comment was edited by Ulic Belouve on Mar 08 2004 03:36pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Oh, and one last little political note, maybe for Ruuk: Conservatives == World is black and white Liberals == Everything is grey So saying that the world is not black and white depends on who you talk to, and where they are on the scale of Conservative-Liberalism. And you have conservative media and liberal media, which reiterates the point that the media are bastards. Or, at least in America, most are. I go with international stuff, mostly. Or collective media, to where it's a combined revision of the stories out there. I don't read papers, I subscribe to these scholarly journals, academic journals, and I get daily stories from there, that they tend to only cite the noteworthy stories. (The reworded Kerry quote on God came from those collective academic sources. Not me, not some bum with a pen that decided to rewrite this.) Nothing I read in the local Sheboygan Press is going to amount to anything. But, yeah. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. This comment was edited by Ulic Belouve on Mar 08 2004 03:25pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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OK, to clarify some points: 1. I'm not trying to convince anyone of any direction. If I find decent things against Bush, which I can do and am working on, I'll put that out (like something to do with restructuring disability services). I merely toss out what I can find as well. As for the "I'm not very convincing" I haven't seen many people provide evidence of what they say about Bush. Bush is homophobic? Prove it. Show a quote. I know you'll find something to use, so use it. THIS is what I try to do. Make you THINK, not just call Bush the next Hitler and vote for Kermit the Frog. 2. I work for a Republican, a State Senator, in a minor capacity. So I really don't work for the REPUBLICAN PARTY, but indirectly I kinda do. See my point? I said that I work for the Republican Party just to make it clear what side I am coming from, that I am Republican, and will most likely have that bias in the facts I try to toss out. I tend to hear more things against Kerry than against Bush. But I have heard doses of Anti-Bush stuff, but since no one gives any good references or evidence, I have to look it up for them which slows down the Anti-Bush facts that I could put out. So if THEY call Bush a homophobe, but have no solid evidence, they make ME look into it, and ME, being REPUBLICAN, have a bias towards doing it. It's a little harder to bash the guy you support. But yeah, Republican Party was a statement of where I stand. 3. The rewording of the Kerry quote about God came from some other editorial sources, to where they decided it can be credibly reworded. I was not the one to reword it, but various sources have reworded it as such. In addition, much of the quotes used against any politician are quotes that have been reworded by the press, or taken out of context. So again, for those that never follow my passion, I will make this clear: JOURNALISTS ARE WORTHLESS BASTARDS!!! NO BUSINESS DEALING WITH POLITICS, YOU BASTARDS!!! I think that's all for now. And like I said before, I'm not going to invest too much time in you guys. I'll simply post what I find for other items. And don't trust the media. Again, any one point can be twisted by the media to help and harm the same person. I'm just going with the guy that will NOT be giving more nuclear weapons to North Korea: the guy that can't say 'nuclear' properly. It's NUKE-CLEE-ERR!!! Not NUKE-YOU-LER!!! (<--there's a quick Anti-Bush, happy?) _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Bandit - Student
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Ruuk, all I gotta say to that is, "AMEN!" And that's pretty strong agreement coming from an atheist. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Not sure how this will really work out but, as of this post the poll is: Bush: 37% Kerry: 63% _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Lian Del Rey - Student 
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Quote: lian are you following elections at all? Dean was the one who had the temper, and he's been out of it for a while. D'oh! I always get presidential candidates mixed up.  There I edited it _______________ slorp This comment was edited by Lian Del Rey on Mar 08 2004 05:12am. |
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Ruuk Haviser - Retired 
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Ok, look: Kerry is in an uncomfortable position. A significant portion of the population has a thing against homosexuals, especially homosexual marriage (although most in the USA would not support a Constitutional Amendment banning it). He is, like most politicians, trying to straddle the fence to appeal to the largest number of voters. If he can be a little bit one way, and not supremely irritate those on the other side, he'll go a long way toward picking up votes from those who both support and oppose the issue. Bush, on the other hand, has it a little easier because he thinks everything is black and white: hence, to him North Korea, Iraq, Iran, and Homosexuals = the Axis of Evil. Life is not black and white, however, which is one of about, oh, a million reasons I can't stand the character. I'm done. -rh _______________ Back from the dead... This comment was edited by Ruuk Haviser on Mar 08 2004 03:00am. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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Who would you vote for? [ ] Bush [ ] Kerry [x] Kermit the Frog _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Bandit - Student
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Quote: This stems from the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", where gay rights activists work to kick the ROTC off campuses because of their opposition to this policy. So in essence, Kerry-who-by-the-way-served-in-Vietnam basically says: I support your fight for equality, but I'm not willing to sacrifice national security for it. So yeah, Kerry-who-by-the-way-served-in-Vietnam seems a bit wishy-washy on supporting gays, by ending their fights against ROTC. This is an issue that I like to bring up sometimes, because a lot of gay activists feel that Kerry-who-by-the-way-served-in-Vietnam is on their side. I don't believe it.. Are you trying really trying to say that gays aren't any better off voting for Kerry than Bush? Do you honestly think one gay person would or should vote for Bush? I think Bush has made his stance on gays pretty clear and it is not a position that will elict a positive response from the gay community on election day. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Sup, Ulic, I can't beleive someone working for the republican party is going to try, to make fun of a Kerry speech, are you kidding me? George W. Bush, making political satirist obsolete since 2000. Serious, remember this speech: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice wont get fooled again. (The above for people who may not have heard of this saying is: "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shamge on me." _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Buzz - Student 
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lian are you following elections at all? Dean was the one who had the temper, and he's been out of it for a while. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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