| Windows vs. Linux | |
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n00b - Student  |
Well, here it is, the great debate. I'm not going to post my opinions quite yet. What I'd like to know is how you feel. Is Windows XP the greatest thing since sliced bread or does Linux just r0x0rs yo b0XX0rs? Post your horror stories, your successes, your frustrations, your epiphanies, whatever you like. Please, we are all intelligent beings so no Ad Hominem arguments are allowed. Please stay on topic and be civil. Also, please try to keep the canned rhetoric down to a minimum. I want to know why you like what you do and I want to hear more than one sentence  _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This post was edited by n00b on Jun 24 2004 05:42am. |
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What is your preference?
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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whoa  http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/07/01/207235.shtml?tid=106&tid=185&tid=190&tid=201 _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. This comment was edited by _cmad_ on Jul 02 2004 12:53pm. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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It depends whether it's a client-side or server-side scripting language, and the context in which it is used. I've written plenty of PHP that the users never get to see because it lives and executes on the server side of things. JavaScript lives in the client and is open for all the world to see. If a Perl script is mass-marketed like shrink-wrap software, rather than custom-written for a client, then yeah, the source is visible. But PHP and Perl scripts are not mass-marketed like that. Somebody who has a need for one hires a developer to write it. Of course, any software can be reverse-engineered. It's just a lot easier to have the author's original source. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Orion - Retired 
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Quote: What about perl programs or scripts they are compile at run time, which means you cant hide the source. Perl and scripting languages are not compiled languages, they are interpreted languages. Some interpreted langauges, like lua, you can use a program they made for lua to 'compile' the source into a encrypted file if you dont want anyone to read the code. _______________ When a Man lies he murder's some part of the world. These are the pale deaths which men misscall there lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home? -Cliff Burton Owner of Smily's 1900th comment | <Lady_Catherine> i love your sexy white socks! | (Lady_Catherine) i adore u! | (Lady_Catherine) onion (Lady_Catherine) i lub u |
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o2b - Student 
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I've tried Linux on my 'big' system (the one I use the most, my gaming/web/everything computer) I've tried it twice. And both times it's screwed my computer for some reason. BEFORE I started fiddling with it lol. So it's never going near my big box again  However, I did recently get another computer, which I'm now running as a small web server, more for the experience than anything else. I haven't yet been game to look at compiling the kernel to fit my hardware, but atm it's running fine. I find it much harder to configure than windows...and really, why would I bother with something that's harder, and does exactly the same thing? But it depends on what you're after I guess...if you like messing around and seeing what you can do and get away with, then sure, linux may be for you. It's great as a web server btw hehe \/\/1n|)0\/\/$ 4 l1f3!! until Linux 'grows up' lol |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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w1nd0w5 + 4 + 71f3 _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider This comment was edited by Gradius on Jun 28 2004 06:41am. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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There's more to software work nowadays than selling shrink-wrapped product. Many of us make our livings as consultants writing custom solutions. Having your work feature prominently in a widely used open-source application is a hell of a thing to be able to put on one's resume. Interviewer: Are you familiar with the Blah Blah Blah device driver [or whatever]? Job Applicant: I wrote it! Remember that many of us, even those of us in the software industry, have a skewed view of the software world. When I think of commercial software I think of the software that I personally buy, which is mostly games. But the shrink-wrapped end of the software industry is just the tip of the iceberg. Most software that gets written is the software we never see or think about--factory machine controls, hospital data systems, aircraft control systems, telephone switches, and so on. The custom software world is very different--you write each application for a particular client for a particular purpose. The client always insists on strict secrecy, not because he cares whether anyone gets a copy of the software, which nobody else could use anyway, but because he doesn't want the competition to know his capabilities. I've written mountains of code in my life, but I don't think I've ever sold a single line that went into a shrink-wrapped application. And yeah, open-source projects are very good for a programmer's career for a variety of reasons. It's not charity. Charitable, yes, but not charity. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. This comment was edited by JavaGuy on Jun 28 2004 04:57am. |
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cHoSeN oNe - Retired 
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Quote: Cant imagine giving your source code away? Well 1st I will assume you work for a steady employeer or are a contractor, so either way the source code belongs to the company, and I would guess that they would go ape-shit if you gave thier source code away. Now "your" source code, why not give it away I have MANY times. The guy who wrote JediMod 1.2 open his source, which Mars used for vulcanus, and then was given to C1 for the base of the JA mod. Look at how good that worked out. What about perl programs or scripts they are compile at run time, which means you cant hide the source. Mars didn't use any of the JediMod 1.2 code. In fact, I was the only one who added features from that mod in my first version of JA Mod, the NPC stuff. He used it as a reference to see how things were made. The VAM was coded much different.  _______________ Get busy living, or get busy dying. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Cant imagine giving your source code away? Well 1st I will assume you work for a steady employeer or are a contractor, so either way the source code belongs to the company, and I would guess that they would go ape-shit if you gave thier source code away. Now "your" source code, why not give it away I have MANY times. The guy who wrote JediMod 1.2 open his source, which Mars used for vulcanus, and then was given to C1 for the base of the JA mod. Look at how good that worked out. What about perl programs or scripts they are compile at run time, which means you cant hide the source. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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n00b: That's what *NIX is all about. Opensource means people can see your code. This means that if they find a bug, they might as well try to fix it before they submit it. It ALSO means that after seeing your code they might find security holes. Even if 4096 people are making the OS (or even some program), the general summary of the users who will get the source code, will find waay more bugs and security issues. IMO Opersource is more than great. And yeah, you're a programmer. You say you can't imaging giving out your source code for free. That means that if any bugs or security holes are found, only YOU get to have the ability to fix it. Which means tough time for you. At some point you might even get pissed off and hand your source code to a friend to help you. Well handing out the source code in the first place, is a better idea. Oh and yeah, they do this for free. The original idea was a free, stable OS. Just because they code for some *NIX variation, doesn't mean they don't have a work Okay, last but not least to n00b: There's been some time since I read the GPL, but I'm under the impression that if someone borrows stuff from your program and uses them in his program, in his (c) part of the source, he must include your name or something alike. I'll have to double-check that... -- For Obi: Amen dude! FreeBSD forever! I love the idea of the ports and how the work. I'm gonna put it on my server Rock on FreeBSD!!!! _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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I want both.  Is there any way? |
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DJK - Student 
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In love with XP all the way  |
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n00b - Student 
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Yeeha, got the mouse to work right under X. I'm so happy to get that going right. Next to tackle is this lovely Nostromo Speedpad. Anyone have any experience with this controller or USB gamepads in general under Linux? Any advice is welcome. Quote: I got JA running using Cedega You mean you payed to get it?  ugh; linux is all about free stuff. WineX/Cedewhatever ruins this happy thought :\ Yeah, the GPL is a real bewildering thing to me. People programming for free on their spare time. I mean, they have created quite a masterpiece, but I hope they can feed themselves. I program for a living, I would never think about giving my source code out for free. Holding your source code is the only way to "patent" your thoughts. People will plagarize code in a heartbeat because it is a lot of work. Even MS does it but they are learning their lessons. I hear the TCPIP stack code for the new Windows (or existing Windows, can't remember) is borrowed from FreeBSD. Given the chance, people will steal your source and claim it for themselves. I had it happen to me, its not fun. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Jun 26 2004 01:44am. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Yes it does cmad, I have been running FreeBSD for years. I tried Linux but I honestly think the ports ( and ever the netbsd pkgs ) are better than rpms or anything of that for linux. I also find all of the BSDs to be more stable than linux. I also think that the idea behind Linux makes it a little worse than the BSDs. I mean there are people who make the linux kernel, then you have 72+ groups that just through differnt file systems on top of that kernel. Any BSD ( Free, Net, Open ) and make so that the kernel and filesystem are made for just each other. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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My new profile picture says it all (best viewable in my profile) _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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I would love to continue to use Linux. I had to take it off when redoing my computer (Look at my sig to see my specs.) I need to run Windows because of exclusive/confidential tech/beta/security items I do through work. These I can't talk about, really. But I need the Windows platform. But I agree with whoever said that Windows is much better once you dump the Microsoft crap. I don't us IE at all, I don't use Outlook, I don't use Word or Office either. The only Microsoft stuff I use is Windows and the Windows Updates (and, erm, some of the exclusive stuff that I may or may not actually get and may or may not actually use. Plausible deniability. Hehe.) But, when I can (or because they gave me a free 64-chip and board, so I now have TWO 64 chips, and TWO boards for them) I will build a Linux-only system. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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D'Loko - Ex-Student 
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I've been using Windows since '93 and I've been using Linux (haven't tried any other UNIX-ish OS) since 2002. At home I've always had Windows, from 3.1 to 3.11 to 98SE to ME to XP Pro. I can't say its great, but once you replace those other Microsoft apps (Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Outlook Express, etc.) that come with it, its pretty good. Windows is great for people who don't know how or want to configure their pc. Its the plug & play mentality of the 21st century and its here to stay. That and it tends to have the biggest entertainment software library of all OS. You can say what you want but, sadly enough, Windows XP Professional is THE current gaming platform. Linux I've only used in school projects. Installing the OS itsself, installing hardware, software, printers, setting up a server. Been there, done that. I didn't mind it that much. The great thing is I had 2 computers available, a Windows XP setup to chat and surf the web on while I installed Linux on the other without any haste at all. It was a very pleasing experience to slowly but surely get it all set up. But as platform for things as gaming or design it ain't to good. That's more than enough typing for today. _______________ Owner of the Gradius Telegraphman Award This comment was edited by D'Loko on Jun 25 2004 01:18pm. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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Quote: I got JA running using Cedega You mean you payed to get it? ugh; linux is all about free stuff. WineX/Cedewhatever ruins this happy thought :\ _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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n00b - Student
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All very nicely spoken comments so far! Well, another install of Linux and here I am back to Windows XP. I have gotten very good at installing Linux, setting it up and making it work. Almost everything worked this time. The AGP would not work on my last motherboard with Linux, but it seems this MB's AGP likes Linux just fine. So, I have pretty much everything working, the Nvidia card, the Audigy card, the USB cable modem, the mouse, and the cd rom burner. Its all up and going great. I got JA running using Cedega, played with the Internet programs, even got to chat through Team Speak. All in all, not bad. But, framerate drops due to the windows emulation layer of Cedega, a weird mouse "thang," and a very nice, but incompatible game controller has me back. I couldn't find any software on it I don't already have, so it was more of a "oh, that's nice, <shrugs>." I mean, KDE seems to be more Windows-like everytime I take a look. Gnome was nothing to write home about and the other desktop managers were dreary. The good old *nix command line I remember from school is always there, so I fooled around with that for awhile, but it makes me think I'm reliving a bad DOS nightmare all over again. I'm not really cutting Linux down, I'm just not all that thrilled by the desktop managers and software that come with it in these Linux distros. I think Windows XP has those desktop projects beat. Linux is the command line OS, not the desktop, I know. I love using GUI's though. I hate typing commands into a black box. I did that for many many years and I am glad I am away from it. It might still be the cat's ass for some, but really, give me a decent GUI and I'm happy. So, Linux may be the most stable OS on the planet, but the desktop managers run me off. I am so mouse driven and click-happy, I can't get myself to want to use the command line that much. I need a desktop manager that is better than Windows XP for me to want to use Linux on a regular basis. Its a shame that Linux has to be dependent on that for people like me. I really think the OS is awesome and I can tell it runs very well and efficiently. Windows NT is just as awesome in my book. So many people went out and bought Windows 95 when it came out, but really NT 4 was where it was at. I'm disturbed by the BSOD arguments by Linux users because really, BSOD was mainly a Win 95/98/ME trait. It happens once in a blue moon on NT 4, but almost always due to a hardware failure. When Windows 2000 came out, adding the full capabilities of Direct X and the very stable NT platform, I was thrilled. NT was the right model to use for a GUI based OS. The old Windows on top of DOS model failed. So, since Win 2K, I have enjoyed a stable system with little effort on my part. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Jun 25 2004 06:55am. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student
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Check out the SWG on Linux thread _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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3th - Retired 
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are there windows emulators or something like that, that will let you play windows games on *nix? i know nothing about linux stuff and this could be the world's stupidest question _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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Seems like a great book, but I prefer newsgroup & IRC questions Yeah I kinda like being told to RTFM _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student
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w00t!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is it for all you nay sayers, I dont want to here another word about anti-*nix talk until you read this. [ not the article, the actual book, that article refers too ] http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/22/2020258&mode=thread&tid=106&tid=185&tid=190 So since, most people wont even bother to read the article let anlone the book: The book is called: Linux for Non-Geeks: A Hands-On, Project-Based, Take-It-Slow Guidebook" And it covers: Ch 1&2 - The first two chapters of the book cover the 'penguinista' mindset (why you're even looking at a book on Linux), hardware compatibility and the install process Ch.3 - nnecting to the Internet is the next chapter, with information presented on hardware, connection options, using the browser, email and IM. Chapter 6 to explaining how the reader can achieve good printing karma with printer support, printing to PDF, changing settings and handling queues " Chapter 8 - Install "stuff" package management 13 and 14 deal in depth with music (audio formats, mp3 support, apps like Grip, Rhythmbox and XMMS) and 'getting arty with the GIMP' (including how to scan and use your digital camera). several office suites including OpenOffice.org (the clear winner) as well as KOffice and some stand-alone apps like AbiWord, Dia, Gcalctool and GPdf Now, if everything is working well so far and you can connect to the Internet, print, get your work done and play games. So what's left? Doing it all from your living room, bedroom, even bathroom! In short, going wireless. Grant succinctly explains what it means, what you need and how to do it. The book also comes with RedHat install CD's _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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Amen * high-fives Obi * _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student
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My real question is WHY windows. Seriously no one I know has "dumb" reasons for using *nix. Im not even sure I plan to buy anymore computer games? I mean why, would I, PS2 is online, Xbox live, you know this will carry on to PS3, and the Xbox2. All I want is a keybaord and mouse for the consoles ( admit it keybaord/mouse pwns almsot any controller for a 1st person shooter ) So at this point, I can hopefully get just a *nix box that can be used to BE PRODUCTIVE ( yes that was the original point of the computer ) Then play on my console. Lets Weigh this idea out: Pros: 1.) Not feeling the need to upgrade my computer every week. ----- a. A good 16mb video card can run 1600x1200 true color, so my computer wouldnt need 17,00 fans to cool my absurd graphics ----- b. *nix isnt nearly as bloated as windows I good P3 ( or AMD equivelent ) would be plenty of horse power for 90% of people and I wanna say 256 meg of RAM would be more than enough 2.) If this were the case, the consoles would get better. Think about it no more computer games would mean all the people makeing them would migrate over to consoles. There would be some lose, but it would proabably be the companies that were putting of=ut crap. 3.) People might pull thier heads out if thier asses and realize that gameplay is more important that graphics, oh wait no, Im wrong I will have to hear people talk about that retardness forever 4.) You really wanna have some fun, MOD you Xbox, download and burn all the NES, Sega, PS1, and Dreamcast games then play those. Look at how awesome that would be. a.) You would learn how to mod something b.) Your Xbox wouldn't suck c.) You would learn how to create the images for playing the older games on an Xbox. 5.) *nix is FREE! ( well its free more often than windows) Cons: Ok Ill let other find these, then Im gonna come back with the, "Think about how nice it would be, if there were only Apple and *nix" _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) This comment was edited by (Jedi)Obi-JK on Jun 24 2004 03:13pm. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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I like Win2k more than WinXP. Both reasons are extremely silly though 1) I don't like the blue bar And I'm too lazy to change it (although I did it some weeks ago )2) mmm I prefer C:\WinNT (the one Win2k has) instead of C:\Windows (the one XP, and many others have). Yeah, I know; silly reasons Bail: it depends on what you learn first. If you learn *NIX first, Windows seems weird. On the other hand, if you learn Windows first, *NIX seems weird... EDIT: n00b, I ain't votin until you change the second option to "*NIX" _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. This comment was edited by _cmad_ on Jun 24 2004 12:20pm. |
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