| Christianity vs.Tolerance? | |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student  |
ALRIGHT WE MOVED THAT DISCUSSION OVER HERE. Was Jesus too tolerant? IMHO, The person who is grounded in faith, has convictions, and speaks out to expose and reprove error (Col. 1: 23, I Cor. 15: 58, Eph. 5: 10, 11) is often charged with: "you have no tolerance! The charge presupposed we are to be unconditionally and without qualification tolerant. Your question focuses on Christ regarding his life and teaching. For those of us who believe Jesus is the promised Messiah, Jesus' attitude toward error and sin is very important. Jesus was tolerant in matters morally and doctrinally indifferent. The Pharisees were very concerned and intolerant at Jesus' disciples plucking and eating corn ("wheat," dm) on the Sabbath. However, Jesus was tolerant (Matt. 12: 1-8). The Pharisees were also very intolerant regarding Jesus' disciples eating without "washing." Jesus, on the other hand, was tolerant (Mk. 7: 1-13). Jesus was intolerant. The casual reader of the New Testament has observed many instances of Jesus being intolerant and outspoken. In the foregoing cases regarding the Sabbath and the washing of hands, Jesus was intolerant with those who bound their traditions (Matt. 12: 1-8, Mk. 7: 1-13). The most wonderful sermon ever delivered is the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7). This sermon actually is an expose of Phariseeism. Jesus expressed much intolerance and was very plain and outspoken (Matt. 5: 20, 27, 6: 1-8). Was Jesus inconsistent? Upon closer examination one sees that when Jesus was tolerant, there was no sin involved, when Jesus was intolerant, sin was involved. Christians are to mimic Christ (I Pet. 2: 21). Hence, in matters not involving sin, the Christian is tolerant; but in matters involving a violation of God's laws, the Christian must be intolerant. God's word is also the standard to determine right and wrong - not emotions or what is politically correct (Gal. 2: 14). These are just my opinions and the opinions of people who make sense to me. We as Christians, as a whole have become more and more tolerant of things these days. I feel that primarily because, if we don't we will be labeled as "hate-mongers" and such. As I feel i am not as tolerant as some, how can you not be? You would have to throw your TV out the door pretty much, keep your children home and school them yourself, (which we do), and basically not participate in life in general. I am not going to go into specific points and my specific views and specific things. But if you really want to know. Everything I beleive is based on the Bible. If it says it is wrong, then i beleive it. If it says it is Godly, then I beleive it. Of course you can completely bash apart my stance on the Bible being God's word. But, IMHO, TRUTH IS TRUTH and that is the bottom line. Alright Ioshee, HIT IT!!! /me flips on suspensful music.....  -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This post was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 01 2004 12:32am. |
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Are Christians Too Intolerant?
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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I do expect thier to always be resistence against Christians. The Bible says we are to be down right persecuted at times. NP, I can deal with that. Mara Jade, Apology accepted, but I still don't know where you got, "we are the only right religion" out of this thread? Sounds like your judging us based on a bad experience you may have had with other, "Christians"? I dunno, but I assure you, this lot here, although we are Christians, we are still the coolest Mofo's on the Planet so please, keep asking us questions and/or talking to us, we'll gladly get it on with a good debate. Vasper, Nothing is beyond God's forgiveness. No sin is too great, too awful, or too prolific for God to forgive. No person is so deep in sin, so ingrained in a lifestyle, so steeped in evil, that he or she cannot be saved. Amazing Grace man.  Oh and /me snogs Koyi -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 08 2004 03:25pm. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student 
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Sorry i was outa order, just shocking that people think like this, i will leave your posts alone. Geuss i will go make a "Buddism is the only right Religion" post, quote and ignore anyother comments.. _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! This comment was edited by Aayla Secura on Jul 08 2004 02:29pm. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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lol. Lets just say I'd prolly burst into flames if I walked into a church. So i think I'll stay outta this one. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Quote: I know you mean well, Koyi. I got nothing but respect for you and your convictions. But think of it if every well meaning man comes along and tells you "some day you should come to church with me" or "Here's a flyer for our next meeting. We're looking out for you. God bless." It can drive you nuts after a while. What's wrong with just waiting for people to come to you? If they want to find Jesus or whatever that's fine, but let them come to you. I totally agree with you here. I wouldn't want a bunch of people coming up to me trying to get me to use Axe body sprays and deoderants or Avon products. I look at things more like this though. Imagine that you have a large group of peoples (A) that you love and have a deep seated concern for and you heard through the grape vine that someone was going to destroy the building that they all worked at. Wouldn't you want to let them know that they could be in great danger or would you just let them continue blindly going to work day in and day out until it was too late? Even if a great many peoples (B) shared the same feelings as you about these people and are told the same thing about the building, would you wait for them to break the news? Thinking of myself as a friend, I can't stand idly by knowing that 7 years from now, 7 days from now, 7 hours from now, or maybe even 7 minutes from now might be the return of Jesus and the Judgement day that comes with that. I totally see your side though, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want someone to try to sell me something I don't believe in, but try to be more passionate to the views and feelings of those trying to sell these things to you. Also, in Mark 16:15 we read: 15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. I am sorry if I've treaded on your feelings in anyway in the past, present, or future. That's really not my intention at all my friend.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. 
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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Quote: It'd be different if we had christian articles or me making news posts saying how we should all discuss the talmud. My visuals just kicked in. That would be awesome... and I'd leave. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Both of you chill out. Mara they keep their christian talk to the christian threads. If you don't want to read it you don't have to. It'd be different if we had christian articles or me making news posts saying how we should all discuss the talmud. But for now it's kept to a small part of the forums and I'm happy with that. DM: intolerant and prosletyzing christians can bring out the worst in people from Mara Jade to myself (in my younger days ). Expect a little bit of resistance. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student
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Mara: You should back off, Moby didn't do anything to warrant those kind of comments. Moby: Is this a discussion thread? Then you can expect opposing views. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student
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DM Go preach in the real wold _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Mara Jade, No one is touting any, "in your face" views here. We are all debating and having a conversation. We all respect one another and one anothers views. Where do you get off, cause NO, it "Did not need to be said". Don't like the conversation? Then don't read it. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council
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Quote: All I do is try to keep scriptures ready and availible and invite them into whatever I do dealing with them, but never try to force them. I just let them know that I have a deep feeling of concern for them and wouldn't want to see them get caught off guard when judgement day is here. That I love them and only wish the best for them, but it is strictly for them to decide. I know you mean well, Koyi. I got nothing but respect for you and your convictions. But think of it if every well meaning man comes along and tells you "some day you should come to church with me" or "Here's a flyer for our next meeting. We're looking out for you. God bless." It can drive you nuts after a while. What's wrong with just waiting for people to come to you? If they want to find Jesus or whatever that's fine, but let them come to you. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student 
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Eveangelical christains, lets just leave it at that. Do not force you belifs on to others, and they well not force theirs on to you. And please get of your high hourses its really getting me down about this "we are better rubbish" which i feel is being presented here. Believe what you want just do not force it on to other people. Its not your right to dictate what people should believe. I'm Happy you have your faith but do not go forcing it in peoples face, hmm like on a Star Wars Fourm. Sorry for loosing it but i think it needed to be said. _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! This comment was edited by Aayla Secura on Jul 07 2004 11:24pm. |
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DJK - Student 
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Quote: Here's my observations: I gotta agree with DJ there, Though sometimes its nice to belive in someone/something, im not saying its "GOD" just something i like to trust all my secrets to Religious christians around here* are some of the most intolerant people I've met. If you're not baptized or saved or whatever then you're going to hell and it's their obligation to tell you about it and change you around. I don't care what Jesus said or did. It was 2000 years ago. It's been re-written, re-translated, re-interpreted, and beaten to death over the ages. Let it all go. Fine. Find God. Believe he has a son. Believe he walked on water, died for your sins, traveled through time in his magic holy tardis, saved the earth from the hordes of phaloosakopaca using only a thimble, and whatever else is written about him. Just keep all of that away from me. I don't mean to offend anyone. This is just what I see. If you're christian and are good about it then more power too ya. * edit: I just re-read that. "around here" means Texas. Not the JA. |
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StarWarsGirl - Ex-Student 
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I mention the word church and she ignores me all cuz another friend has been trying to force her into it even before i met her i just say something like oh we played a fun game at church or something to that extent and she ignores me. I don't force it on her she asked me a question about it once and i answered with scripture and i'll she said was you must be bored. _______________ Be strong & brave.Don't ever be afraid. Joshua 1:9 Fear is the path to the darkside. -Jedi Master Yoda |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote:
Quote: I am not close-minded thank you very much! Sorry people saying we're close-minded bugs me! We bekieve in the Jesus Christ firmly and are not afraid to show it so why should it matter what none believers think because they refuse to believe?!?!?! I have a friend I've been trying to convert but she ignores everything me and another girl says now that at the moment I find close-minded! Can you blame 'em? If you try to convert someone, you're essentially pushing your beliefs upon them. That's why alot of Christians are seen as closed-minded - because there are alot of Christians who will force their beliefs on people. Give your friend a break, i'm sure you're driving her nuts. Agree with ya totally there Mike _______________ Website |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Well, I do agree, and know from experience as a leader of a College Christian organization, that you get some Christians to go off their rocker all of the time, and you generally get all Christians to go off their rocker some of the time. We all get passionate and heated in defending whatever we believe. Just look at politics (ok, shield your eyes now, that was long enough). But I'd say in general, we're pretty cool about it. Sure, there's the old guy on the corner who spits at you and tells everyone they're going to hell. Or the guy that has conversion verses painted on the side of his van as he drives around, and sometimes he uses his loudspeaker. And then there's always some normal person, who just gets too agressive when trying to teach Christianity to a friend or colleague. It's in all of us, to some degree, the intolerance. But I think Christianity (or possibly religion in genearal) makes the natural intolerance of man, much more tolerable. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: I have a friend I've been trying to convert but she ignores everything me and another girl says now that at the moment I find close-minded! I know how you feel my friend. I feel as if I'm kinda blossoming out of the old and into a new. Not like I'm being saved but more like trying to find truth and cling to it and my friends are the same old friends. One thing that I knew before I started is that I can't make anyone come to God or except Jesus, Jesus has to move them through His Word. All I do is try to keep scriptures ready and availible and invite them into whatever I do dealing with them, but never try to force them. I just let them know that I have a deep feeling of concern for them and wouldn't want to see them get caught off guard when judgement day is here. That I love them and only wish the best for them, but it is strictly for them to decide. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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rofl @ JJ _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Quote: I am not close-minded thank you very much! Sorry people saying we're close-minded bugs me! We bekieve in the Jesus Christ firmly and are not afraid to show it so why should it matter what none believers think because they refuse to believe?!?!?! I have a friend I've been trying to convert but she ignores everything me and another girl says now that at the moment I find close-minded! Can you blame 'em? If you try to convert someone, you're essentially pushing your beliefs upon them. That's why alot of Christians are seen as closed-minded - because there are alot of Christians who will force their beliefs on people. Give your friend a break, i'm sure you're driving her nuts. |
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StarWarsGirl - Ex-Student
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I am not close-minded thank you very much! Sorry people saying we're close-minded bugs me! We bekieve in the Jesus Christ firmly and are not afraid to show it so why should it matter what none believers think because they refuse to believe?!?!?! I have a friend I've been trying to convert but she ignores everything me and another girl says now that at the moment I find close-minded! _______________ Be strong & brave.Don't ever be afraid. Joshua 1:9 Fear is the path to the darkside. -Jedi Master Yoda This comment was edited by StarWarsGirl on Jul 06 2004 11:11pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: And I thought we were supposed to love God because he is omnibenevolent, not because we fear his capacity for eternal crushing damnation? I know that it is hard to reach out and love someone or something you can prove to be there. I have a hard time reaching out and loving what's right here in front of me sometimes. My father has never really been a father to me growing up and I have a hard time even thinking about having any type of relationship with him. God wants for us to worship Him. We shouldn't love Him for a reason, we should just love Him. Just like I should and do have love for the father I never really had. It's just the right thing to do, but from your side of the fense, it's more complicated then that because of your unbelief. Quote: If I'm unwelcome, here, forgive me. Bandit, I for one have always welcomed your insight in all my conversations because you are well educated in your statements and don't just blow smoke. You really give people something to chew on and that's important to me. Quote: I believe Jesus was a very tolerent person. He tolerated those that hated Him, those that persecuted Him, the occupiers of the land in which He lived..etc. He openly accepted and tolerated, tax collectors (who were universally despised), prostitutes, beggars, thiefs, criminals in general and of course, Gentiles. While he disagreed with their deeds, and beliefs, and tried to change people's views, he was not intolerant of others. At least, IMHO. Again, I don't really think Jesus was tolerant/intolerant. Jesus came to fulfill the scriptures, to pay the price for those He came to save, and definately not to judge but to teach. John 12:47-48 reads: 47) And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jesus is shown to be the Word in the first chapter of John so He is definitely coming again to judge, but that wasn't what He had come at that time for. He will not tolerate sin and what was around Him. He may forgive it, but never tolerate it. Everything with the Pharisees was more or less a message to us all. All of us! Here are the men who were intrusted with God's Word to follow and preach it faithfully and they couldn't because of unbelief. Unbelief that is very alive and present today as so many so-called Christians who believe that they are following the Bible. So many believe that they can reach out and confess their sins and be baptised and work towards not sinning and then it becomes a works/grace gospel where God supplies the way out and it's up to us to run for it. If we just think about what it took to save us, we would understand that there is nothing we can do to become saved. Again, I'm not saved so don't listen to this anyone. It is not supported by scripture nor do I feel I have God's Spirit leading me. I just take the scriptures for what they say to me. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 04 2004 04:45pm. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote: And I thought we were supposed to love God because he is omnibenevolent, not because we fear his capacity for eternal crushing damnation? That's not what he said As I said in the other thread (the Bible Study one), fear has a second meaning - respect. I, personally, respect God and his capacity for specifying eternal damnation. I have such a high respect for this power, that I don't want to get on the wrong side of it, so - for me - that leads me to steer well clear of it. _______________ Website |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: I question the point of posts like these. Whatever is said is going to be a gross generalisation, and probably going to offend some people. You cannot stick all Christians in one big group, as there are so many denominations. The same can be said of Muslims, Jews, Hindus Buddists etc. The message of all the major religions is basicly the same: Be nice to each other. Is this realy so hard? Like you said Menaxia anything people say will be a generalization. That doesn't mean people should be offended. It is how people deal with things though. Sometime you need to have a simplified view. So you will lump a certain religious group into a category, but you still need to realize that all members are not like that. I'm a Catholic but I doubt if I could be used as an example of all other Catholics. Just like you can't just assume all Catholic priests are pedophiles and sexual deviants. A big point of this thread is tolerance, so just hope that people will realize that opinions are being expressed here and be able to address them in a polite manner. As for Jesus and tolerance. He was very tolerant of people and did forgive many. However if you remember the story of him kicking the money changers out of the temple. The action these men were doing was obviously not something he could tolerate. So there is obviously a point where you shouldn't tolerate things and try to make a change. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Bandit - Student 
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Quote: God is the ultimate judge and I don't fear those who can only destroy my body, but Him who can destroy body and soul in eternal flames where the smoke of my torment will go up forever and ever. And I thought we were supposed to love God because he is omnibenevolent, not because we fear his capacity for eternal crushing damnation? If I'm unwelcome, here, forgive me. I just wanted to say that I think the majority of Christians are too intolerent. I believe Jesus was a very tolerent person. He tolerated those that hated Him, those that persecuted Him, the occupiers of the land in which He lived..etc. He openly accepted and tolerated, tax collectors (who were universally despised), prostitutes, beggars, thiefs, criminals in general and of course, Gentiles. While he disagreed with their deeds, and beliefs, and tried to change people's views, he was not intolerant of others. At least, IMHO. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: Koyi: Its all down to interpretation, if we followed the rules from that time you would most likely be in prsion for blasphomy Mara, I couldn't agree with you more. A large number of Christians died clinging to their faith in Christ. I would like to believe that if I was under those conditions, I too would cling to my believes in what God's Word tells me and die for Him if I had to, but I don't believe that I'm saved nor do I know if I would have the courage to stand and face death. Me sitting here right now, if my beliefs seem like blasphomy, I would except whatever people would do to me. God is the ultimate judge and I don't fear those who can only destroy my body, but Him who can destroy body and soul in eternal flames where the smoke of my torment will go up forever and ever. As far as being nice to people goes, how does that solve anything? How does that pay for sins or makes anything better? I personally do it because I feel that it's the right thing to do and would want for myself. Other religions may boil down to do good and be rewarded, but not the Bible. It's very difficult to find truth in the Bible and I think it is very profittable for it to be discussed openly especially if concepts or ideas actually come from and are posted with scripture for God is true but let every man be a liar. Don't ever trust what I say on here, but I pray and hope that some may find the faith the believe in the Bible. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Aayla Secura - Ex-Student
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Like normal, mena got it in one _______________ IN UR FACE I'M NOT BLONDE! |
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