| To peope who beleive in God | |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student  |
If you choose to beleive in God that is fine, that alone doesnt bother me at all. But I have a few questions for those of you who do believe in God. 1.) Heaven - Can you really belive in this as it is depicted? Everyone is always happy, nothing bad ever happens. Everyone always gets what they want. 2.) Hell - This "ALL FORGIVING" God people have been debating about forever, is actually going to let people suffer for ETERNITY, think about this he is ALL FORGIVING, which mean he wuould be required to forgive you for everything your did including not beleiving in him. 3.) I threw this out on another thread but it was overlooked. 1.) God is "All Knowing" 2.) God is "All Powerful" 3.) God is "All Forgiving" I am sure God is a few more "All <insert something>" but those are the important 3 for now. Look at "1" ALL KNOWING, now think about that, in the year 65 million B.C. God knew what you were going to have for breakfast this morning. He also knows every sin you will ever commit, and weather or not you will go to heaven or hell. Face it, if you beleive in God, you must give up your hopes of having "free will" beleiving in God basically means you are a "determinist." From above it follows that God, knew always wheather or not you were going to Heaven or Hell, so basically just by creating the earth he banished people to hell. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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The beautiful thing about salvation is nobody knows who will become saved. God knows, but we don't. So to say that this person doesn't believe and surely he will go to hell isn't valid because God may not have saved the individual as of yet. It's like Saul. This man hated the worshipers of Christ and sought to do them much harm, but then Christ came to him and saved him making him an apostle known by the name of Paul he followed Christ's ways and preached the gospel. The all knowing, all forgiving, all this and all that isn't intirely Biblically related and thus is creating all of this confusion. If knowledge is wanted about God and His ways, one must read the Bible. All are welcome to visit, to read, and to comment in our Bible study forum as long as it isn't disrespectful and is constructive to the topic at hand.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. 
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Ok I have been to busy to participate in this thread for now, but there have been alot of great posts on this thread. I am going to need some help with the below statements though. Quote: Just to answer your other question: He IS All powerful to those who call on his name and exercize thier authority in Christ as his children. He is only all power to those who believe, in him? That means his power is LIMITED. If God were truely all powerful, he would have power over even the non-beleivers. Quote: He IS All Knowing as to say that he knows everything, past, present and future. 100% Agree Quote: He IS All Forgiving to those who ask for forgiveness and truly try to turn from thier ways. Again, this can not be true. If he is truely all forgiving he would forgive those who ask and those who don't thats where the "ALL" comes in. Quote: And Jedi Jenko, if "I AM" is good enough for you, than you have exercized your free will to make that choice and you have every right. IMHO -DM- Again not true, Basically from the time God creates the earth, he know Jenko wouldn't beleive in him and therefore he is going to banish Jenko to hell. The statement "Just because God knows what is going to happen, doesn't mean you don't have a choice." isnt valid either. Thats like saying just because I watched the Super Bowl ( who cares which one ) 97 times, I wont be able to tell you how it end, as if the players are somehow going to jump in my VCR and change the past. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Thomasooo - Student 
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Quote: i refuse to debate about religion it only makes enemies from once friends I don't know the background story for that statement, but those friendships can't have been solid. :-/ _______________ In the navy and LOVING it!
Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!
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Jenko - Student 
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Im with Jello! _______________ Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg? rhyw ar y traeth! |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Just saying... try and keep it to the most relevant, imho. Just to avoid it being a new bible thread. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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The way I see it, it would be like having a forum about some type of sport but not allowing someone to bring satistics to the table. From now on, I will try to limit all scriptures to the forum where it will not offend anyone. Sorry once again for the inconvenience. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Jello` - Student 
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<- Agnostic, so I'll stay out of it, but I have about the same questions as you Obi I think the scriptures are fine as long as they pertain the main topic of Obi's questions. _______________ Brady Brothers: Orion-Greg, Furi0us-Peter, Me-Bobby. Long lost cousin to Flash. Midbie Council #007. Ex-JAK. This comment was edited by Jello` on Jul 30 2004 05:42am. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
I saw it, I was referring to the rather heavy amount of scriptures being posted already. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: Please, guys..... don't make this into a new bible study thread... this is for the questions, and why one should believe in god or not; not for spreading the word. Did you miss the end of my post where I requested the conversation be moved to the Bible Study forum? Quote: Could you please post these in the Bible Study forum and bring light to this subject? Natually, any subject relating to God should be supported with scripture, but when the subject went off point I did what I thought would be enough. Sorry about that.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 30 2004 02:09am. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Please, guys..... don't make this into a new bible study thread... this is for the questions, and why one should believe in god or not; not for spreading the word. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: i refuse to debate about religion it only makes enemies from once friends The only thing a Christian would ever really want is to please God. In knowing His Word and what He wants of us is key in pleasing Him and there is no other way then for Christians to come together and study His Word. With God's Blessing, our eyes will be opened to greater understanding and knowledge and wisdom. May God Bless us all in the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 30 2004 07:39am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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We have the option of believing that we are following Him in our own mind. In Colossians 1:9, 10 we read: 9) For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10) That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; In Hebrews 13:20, 21 we read: 20) Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21) Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. The whole key is doing what is pleasing to God. The scriptures posted in Romans chapter 3 show us that we are not righteous or seekers of God out of our own wills. The whole human race has become unprofitable to His and without Him it is doomed. I've studied the laws of faith and they clearly state that it is by faith that we are saved, not by works which you would probably be quick to agree with me on. Only problem is we never question who's faith and once we check other scriptures we find that it is Christ's faithfulness that saves you seeing how all the work of salvation is fulfilled in Him and faith is work. I would really like to see the scriptures that show me that I've misunderstood something. Could you please post these in the Bible Study forum and bring light to this subject? Let us search for the truth together DM for I am confident if we put aside our thoughts and understandings, search out the scriptures diligently, we will come to an agreement on this subject. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 30 2004 07:39am. |
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JP - Academy Pimp 
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i refuse to debate about religion it only makes enemies from once friends _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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We do have free will. We can choose to follow God or not. If your saying you have no choice, then that makes no sense to me. If your getting back into the your only saved if he chooses you debate, then have fun. It still does not have anything to do with whether or not we can choose to serve God or not. LETS SAY YOUR RIGHT KOYI. We still have a decision to Follow God or not. Regardless whether or not we are as you put it, "CHOSEN". Maybe you should study what the LAW OF FAITH actually is. JMO -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 30 2004 12:04am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: That is why pre-destination does not hold water. It is not like no matter what, we can't do anything because God knows and has a plan. We do have free will. We can choose to follow God or not. -DM- I don't agree with this at all. The questions posted above are all very good questions from someone seeking knowledge. As far as believing every letter and every word of the Bible as we have it is kinda difficult through the translation but us who would believe in the God of the Bible would have to believe in His Word. As far as all knowing and pre-destination goes, let us listen to His Word. In Romans 9:8-23 we read: 8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9) For this is the word of promise, AT THIS TIME WILL I COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON. 10) And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) 12) It was said unto her, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. 13) As it is written, JACOB HAVE I LOVED, BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED. 14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15) For he saith to Moses, I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I WILL HAVE COMPASSION. 16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. 17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, EVEN FOR THIS SAME PURPOSE HAVE I RAISED THEE UP, THAT I MIGHT SHOW MY POWER IN THEE, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE DECLARED THROUGHOUT ALL THE EARTH. 18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? 22) What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, In Romans 3:23-28 we read: 23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Christ's work saves us as faith is shown forth to be work. In Thessalonians 1:3 we read: 3) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; As far as Heaven and Hell is concerned, who are we to judge or to comment on what God has laid out for us? I believe what most have heard about Heaven is more out of the thoughts of men then actual scripture. The Heavens and the Earth will be destroyed and pass away on Judgement day when God will create a new Heaven and a new Earth infinately more wonderful then what we have here. About Him banishing people to Hell, yes and it is all to His Glory. Glory be to our Almighty God on High. Let His will be done. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Khâ D'Kana - Student 
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Obi, I will try to answer you the best I can with my toughts First of all, I'm sure God is Love. So if God is Love, our time here on earth has an other reason than suffering. For me this reason is a kind of love training. Learning to love even your ennemies. It's surely impossible to be perfect on earth with it and it's not the goal. The goal is simply to improve us each day of our life in this loving training How many time do I have really loved my brother today ? my mother ? and so on...But when you will die you will have two choices : 1. you accept the love God is giving you and you go to heaven or for a short while in the purgatory. The purgatory is simply there to teach you the perfect love. And the God's favours (or mercy, I'm not sure of the english word) will do the rest to give you the ability to love perfectly. 2. you were really bad during your life. You never loved people. You will not love people and you're really proud of you like that. In this case you will refuse God's love. Because you simply will not love him, so you exerce your free will. Hell will not be a so horrible place, except that it will be the non-love place. Nobody will help somebody. Nobody will greet you, nobody will simply become your friend. You will be alone for eternity. I sincerely think it's more horrible than the classical suffering view of hell. I hope it will help and if I'm totally wrong, don't hesitate to debate  my 2 cents -Matthieu _______________ In light of day, nor dark of night, no evil shall escape our sight. Proud member of the D'Kana family |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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"God is dead." Nieztsche. here _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
I believe in science (not that it's perfect, there are some flaws, but I believe those to be "untill we know more"-flaws), and what I can see/touch/smell/taste/you know what I mean.. I really have no reason to believe in a greater being, or such, untill I have *proof*. |
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Dicemaster - Student 
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my one thing to those of you who don't believe in god, HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN ALL OF THIS????? i've never been a dvote christian, and mostly i blame that on my boring catholic church. I believe there is a god, and i believe you must give him the respect he deserves. Now what i'm curious about, is serioulsy how do you explain everything in the world. Do you realize how many chances would have just "happened?" i mean look at humans.....we are more complex then almost anything out there, evolved from a single organism? I THINK NOT. Furthermore, i believe the following helps. I was told at a scripture reading once, that when Jesus was born, he in one second fullfiled 300 profacies from the past. The chance of fulfilling 8 of those was something like 1 in 300000 (can't remember the exact number but it was huge). I know its not completely acturte, but right there is enough for me to believe in a God, yet alone all the other signs out there -Dice P.S. not trying to force my relgion on anyone, i'm simply bringing some things to light, from someone who believes in God, but has no bible versus' memorzied or anything like that _______________ Dicemaster |
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Jenko - Student
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_______________ Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg? rhyw ar y traeth! |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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Just to answer your other question: He IS All powerful to those who call on his name and exercize thier authority in Christ as his children. He IS All Knowing as to say that he knows everything, past, present and future. He IS All Forgiving to those who ask for forgiveness and truly try to turn from thier ways. And Jedi Jenko, if "I AM" is good enough for you, than you have exercized your free will to make that choice and you have every right. IMHO -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 29 2004 07:39pm. |
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Jenko - Student
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yeah im definately agnostic _______________ Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg? rhyw ar y traeth! |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Those are pretty pesimistic words coming from a "Practicing Catholic", Menexia. Obi, Just because God knows does not take away from the fact that we choose our own destiny. It is true that God is the Author and Perfector and his ultimate plan is set in stone. But just because God knows what we may or may not choose does not take away from the fact that it is still our choice. That is why pre-destination does not hold water. It is not like no matter what, we can't do anything because God knows and has a plan. We do have free will. We can choose to follow God or not. It is our choice not God's. Of course he wants us all to believe in him and follow his words. He wants all of us to be with him in heaven. But there are alot of people who rely on thier own understanding and do not turn to God for help because society is predominately wrapped up in the whole, "I AM" theory. This takes the emphasis off of God and empowers everyone to control thier own destinty. Ironically, that statement still shows that we have free will. As far as the Bible goes, it is like anything else that can not be proven to be true. You have to have faith in it. You have to have faith that God was just and fair enough to give all of us the chance to read his Word and know what we are to do. You have to have faith that he did not let man, whom he created MESS it all up for the rest of us. I personally believe the Bible is the Word of God. I believe every word was annointed and written under the expressed hand of God. If I doubted that for a second, then I would have no reason to be a Christian. But no matter what, it comes down to faith. I would much rather put my Faith in things of the Lord than myself, because I know I would just let myself down if I didn't. Anyways, that is just my point of view. Hope it offers some insight. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Jenko - Student
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i suppose im agnostic _______________ Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg? rhyw ar y traeth! |
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Menaxia - Student 
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Yr forgetting - These words are written in books like the Bible. These were written by HUMAN BENGS not the hand of God directly. IT is going to be imperfect - especially as it was quite a few very prejudiced men who wrote it in the first place. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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