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..:: "DaRtH-MoBiLiTy" ::..
Student
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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OMFG1!!1! WTF LOL THIS GUY RAWKS!1!11!11!!1!11 WTF LOL I LOV3 THIS GUY!11!!1 OMG H3 OWNS SO MUCH! MOBY!1!!11!11 I LOV3 U MAN U BAN A BROTHER 2 ME SINCE DAY ONE IL1!!11! WTF LOL N3VAR FORG3T IT AND I HOPE TAHT U FEL DA SME FOR MA ROK!1!11 OMG WTF ON MAN!!11!!!!11! OMG LOL _______________ Academy Architect |
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Tido - Student 
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Hope you have an awesome Christmas, moby!  |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Very interesting study Steve, but I believe that the choice isn't ours. I understand clearly now that it is your belief that a mankind's will plays a part in their salvation, but that would make God a liar. He clearly states over and over again that no man seeks after Him or that it is not by our will, but by His that we are saved. The study on Pharaoh I believe was misleading for if you read back through what you posted along with the scriptures pertaining to this subject matter, it is clearly written that God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't bend. It doesn't say God allowed Pharaoh this but it was done unto him. This fits with scriptures such as those found in Romans about the vessels that God created for certain purposes. Also, before you posted the scriptures in Obadiah you said something to the effect that they show God's undying love for them. I read it and I see their judgement as all of them will be cut down. They also speak on the day of the Lord which can be shown to be judgement day and refers to all of the nations. It is my belief that this is highly parabolic language of our day refering to the end times. What's the message, I don't know.  But I'm sure it has something to do with God's people and maybe the churches of our day. Judgement begins in the house of God as His Word says.You also said that God blames us when we don't obey, but the problem is once again that God tells us that none of us obey. I feel that this conclusion doesn't fit because God would never had said that all of us will not seek after Him when your saying we will to seek after him and do. There is a popular scripture that I once read and will post as soon as I find it, but it goes along the line of this. God works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. Another problem I see is when they were going into the land that they were promised, the inhabitance didn't have a choice but were ruthlessly slaughtered. God didn't make any annoucements nor did He give them the chance to leave what they had. He lead the people of Israel, His chosen people, and commanded them to kill every man, woman, and child they came across. Most of the time, everything was to be destroyed and no spoils were even collected, but sometimes there were spoils which the people were commanded to take. No choice lies in these instances and when it came to God bringing about His promises He underlined the fact that it was Him that did it. When they fought all of those people, sometimes heavily outnumbered, they were delivered into Israels hand because of the Lord and He goes on to say that their bows nor swords won them their battles. The people did the fighting, killed their opponents with their weapons, and the Lord took all the credit for it. The people chose to fight as the Lord commanded them, but the victory and the fight was won by the Lord. I find the whole subject of the stumbling stone to be very interesting holding so much truth. Why did Israel stumble? Because God commanded them to do thus and so to become saved and because these people had no faith, they perished. Are we any different? Is it because we have the whole Bible and the message of Jesus Christ that puts us in some sort of new bracket that now we can believe in God and have faith? I have to stick to my guns and firmly say no. Why? Because this is the stumbling block. Remember when I quoted out of Romans where Jesus was the end of the Law of righteousness which was described by Moses when he said, "A man can live if he does thus and so."? Do you remember that verse? I'll look it up again, but I believe it to be somewhere in our study. What did God say right after those verses? Do you remember? He said a man can live if he does thus and so. This being said right after He said Jesus was the end of all that. Why would Jesus be the end of that? Because it is Jesus who chose His people from before the foundations of the earth and wrote their names in the lambs book of life. It was He who took all of the sins of those people to the cross to pay the penalty in their place. It is He and He alone who can cause one to become saved. Once you take these little scriptures here and there and start piecing them all together, you can't deny them, you can't ignore them, you can't disregard them or remove them from God's gospel. They all fit together with perfect harmony and when we see the verses of how God works within His chosen people, all the other verses saying if one does thus and so will fit because we can understand that if someone is truely saved and being moved by God's Spirit, they will be doing these things. God doesn't command us to do anything for our salvation. It's like the parable of the Pharisee and the publican where the Pharisee was boasting about what he did to make himself righteous while the publican just begged for mercy actknowledging that he was a sinner. God says the publican was in better standings with Him. Now if we look at the Pharisee's position, what he was boasting about would be considered mighty noble and righteous in his time just as us reaching out and accepting Christ and believing on Him and making confession of faith and being baptized is today. All of these things are mechanical things we do nowadays to bring ourselves (in our minds) closer to God or into His salvation, but God's Word tells us that He baptizes us. That it is God's work that we believe on Him which in turn would allow us to confess His name once we would truely know Him. It is very easy for us humans to set up false gods in our heads. God warns us that not everybody who hears His Words will truely hear them. Alot of people will hear the Bible being preached and set up a god that they will follow much like the idols in the past. We can't pick and choose what sounds appealing to us when it comes to God's Word. If He says that He hates sinners or workers of iniquity then that is truth and we must humbly bow before it. If God says that He gives the power unto men to become Sons of God by His will and not by our own, how can we argue that? I myself may be doing this (picking and choosing what I want to hear) and I am fully aware of this, but I'm willing to bend to every letter of God's Word. Trouble is with all of the pieces is getting them all to fit together so that you have a nice picture of what it is God is saying. If God was even more horrible that what I believe, I would follow whatever He told me and I would serve Him (God willing). As you clearly stated, you would not. This scares me terribly so because it's telling me that you don't want nor will you accept that type of a gospel message even if it is true and trustworthy as it might be found in the Bible. I haven't had a chance to read those links that you posted, but I read your posts completely. I will read them probably Sunday time allowing me to do so. Take care Steve and please know that I hope and pray for the very best for you and yours as well as myself and mine. The only one who can humble us before God's Word is God as it is He who gives ears to the deaf and eyes to the blind and life to the dead. I believe that we are just like Lazarus whom was a stinking corpse (if God hasn't worked salvation in either of us yet [who am I to judge]) and very much like him we are unable to breathe, speak, hear, see, or walk. God had to do a mighty miracle that day to raise Lazarus from the dead and annouced it as a sign that He is the life and the resurrection. Until God does the same for our souls by sending His Spirit, we can't do anything for we are that dead, stinking body with no life to obey or function. Lazarus being dead didn't have a choice or will to obey, but with God working in him raise him from the dead so that he could obey. God bless us Steve as we are patient with each other and with God praying that He will continue to be patient with us and thanking Him for His wonderful blessings. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Dec 22 2004 07:52am. |
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3th - Retired 
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yo dude! nice work with Jerry! he's kicking ass these days!  hope you're well my man. miss running into you on TS anymore. guess i have to get my moby love vicariously through JP _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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What you posted is indeed very convincing and makes alot of sense. That is until you get to verses that say man's will does not enter into his salvation like in John 1. Verses like a man isn't saved by works but by faith. Verses that tie into that showing faith to be work. Read Romans 9 again very slowly. Before Esau and Jacob were born we prophicied which would rule which with the fact that He loved one and hated the other tied right into it. It speaks about how He creates vessels of mercy prepared unto salvation and vessels of wrath prepared unto destruction. Would I want to serve a God like that? Yes. I understand law and order and God is absolute justice personified. His perfect integrity demands that our sins be punished. If Jesus had payed for all sins, all past, present, and future, then everyone would go to heaven because the ultimate payment has already been paid, but that isn't the case. Jesus prayed only for His own, not the whole world. I'm willing to pay for what evil I have done in my life time if it's to God's glory, but I really don't want to. I know that God is a merciful God and that Jesus (which can be paraphrased into the Word of God) came to save sinners. Jesus constantly states that no one will come to Him unless the Father draws them. Where's the choice in those statements? Or what about in John when Jesus said that it is the work of God for men to believe on Him. That statement doesn't sound like a choice either. Reading through the old testament, we get alot of pictures of God highlighting over and over again that it is He that does everything for His people. He lead and made is possible for the Israelites to slaughter the inhabitants of the promised land. He also commanded them to slaughter all men, women, and children! Cattle, crops, food, housing, and spoils of war in most cases. God calls Himself a consuming fire and He is. He will destroy like no other on the last day. He gives us scriptures pointing to the fact that there will be a multitude of people saying Lord Lord, have I not prophecied in your name and done great mericles in your name and cast out devils in your name. To those, He will say, Away from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you. Show me where the choice lies in these verses, please because I would love to believe that I can choose to serve Him. He says that it was He who loved us first while we were yet sinners, but if we chose first to love Him and our salvation came from that, I don't understand how that it can be. Just because God stands outside the limits of time wouldn't make Him first to love us if our choice is our vehicle to become saved, would it? I thank you very much my friend for your warm thoughts and prayers. It's such a blessing that together we can search out God's Word together. Thank you DM for everything. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Dec 16 2004 02:15am. |
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Mirror - Student 
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< JASE. Hah. _______________ Viva emptiness. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Hey DM? I was just wondering if I could ask you a quick question outside of our study if you don't mind. I don't need a huge, drawn out answer or very clear explanation, but I was just wondering about our study together on salvation. See, I posted alot of scriptures pointing to the fact that God saves us through His will and that our will has nothing to do with it and I was just wondering if these scriptures have shined any light in your life? In other words, I was wondering if you accept these scriptures and maybe have changed your outlook on God's salvation plan at all? To tell you the truth, I'm still stuck in my study on God's chastising of His people, examples in the Biblical history, and the true believers in general. I am very far from truth in this subject and am still seeking to put this puzzle together God willing. It is exceedingly difficult to tie together the scriptures stating that a true believer will follow God's commandments perfectly and that the flesh still sins while the spirit doesn't. It's hard to picture God's perfect Spirit, our Lord and savior coming into our beings to abode with us, and we still stumbling in sin when God says there will be no occasion of stumbling. I pray very deeply for us both, for your family and closest people to you as well for mine. I really hope God opens our eyes my friend. I'd rather see my faults clearly and fall then to be blind and without wisdom falling to the same fate. I long to be God's child and I hope I am of His elect. I don't want to be His enemy and I don't want to be a slave to Satan and to sin. I'd gladly be the lowliest of the lowest in God's kingdom then to face payment for my sins that continue building every second of every day. Anyway, sorry about that. Sometimes I get thinking about God and it's hard to stop my mind. God bless you and yours DM. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Coogee - Student 
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Welcome aboard -QG- _______________ Bro of many in a very deformed family tree || Formerly a Padawan of Motrec, Kenyon & Aphex AKA Quiet Guardian, QG and Coogie |
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ozzcoz - Cosplay Nerd 
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Welcome aboard the good ship MOTREC  _______________ A wizard did it. |
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MOTREC - Student 
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welcome. tonight we can train. give me a hollar on messenger. |
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skyler_ - Student 
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Wiggy Wiggy Bloooooop!!! |
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cHoSeN oNe - Retired 
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Sup dude? Just saying a quick hello. I really hope we can pull this NYC meeting off. I'd be a great time! Cheers! -c1 _______________ Get busy living, or get busy dying. |
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Katan - Student 
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Hey, nice seein' ya, and HEEEEELLLLLLOOOOOOOOO too you too! _______________ |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Thank you so very very much DM for your thoughts and your prayers. They are very much appreciated by me. I too am very happy and thankful that with God's mercy, we have been blessed with the opportunity to look together into God's Word and search for truth. What a wonderful blessing not only for us, but for everyone who might read through out of curiousity and be exposed to the scriptures. How truely wonderful it would be if God came into the lives and saved a great many people here by the chance of them thumbing through the threads and God blessing them with what they read in the study forum. I love that you are one of the more active members of the thread sharing your knowledge and insight on a great many subjects adding to our discussions. Again, thank you for caring and stopping in to let me know that your still out there caring about me. You made my day. Thank you. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Mirael D'Kana - Student 
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aww thanx, Moby. _______________ -The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven.(John Milton)- Mirael D'Kana, daughter and Padawan to Jaina D'Kana, proud mastress to Crash D'Kana and Saige D'Kana. Winner of Henkes' Pure Pwnage Award. Proud owner of Jaina's 999th post. Proud user of Odan Wei's JA Logo in my avatar. -SWG random quote: People use hammers to knock holes in the wall. I use a hammer to knock Bounty Hunters' teeth out.- |
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Ashyr - Student 
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Not really, the only gaming friend I have that actually lives here doesn't have internet, so he just playes Xbox. _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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3th - Retired 
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hahah! as long as it's kick ass chicago-style then it's all good to me! _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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awwww /blush!! I feel so <3! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Ashyr - Student 
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Hey! I actually saw you on the server. Maybe we could actually duel next time.  _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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Mirror - Student
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Unbelievable. _______________ Viva emptiness. |
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Ashyr - Student
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We ended up going for the Pyramid property. _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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3th - Retired
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3th is thankful for thrown pizza!!! (and DM ) happy turkey day to you my man _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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Happy Thanksgiving!!!!!!!!!! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Ashyr - Student
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Really? Wow, more Renoians. Sure, I'd be happy to catch a concert over there. Btw, did your church just move? Because we were going to buy a building from you. _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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Ashyr - Student
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http://www.thejediacademy.net/forums_detail_page.php?f_id=10775 _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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FaDed - Student 
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Hello old friend. I just stopped into an internet cafe here in downtown Nuku'alofa, Tonga to check my email. I figured I'd take the opportunity to see if the academy was still up an running. I saw that you still post here so I thought it would be fun to leave you a little note. I wrote you a letter about 2 months ago while I was still in the states. I never got a reply from you, so I don't know if you got it, or if you are choosing to not write back. In either case, I'm going to give you my mailing address here. I hope that you still want to keep up contact. My address is: Elder Colin Slade Tonga Nuku'alofa Mission PO Box 58 Nuku'alofa, Tonga You can reply to this post if you want, but I'm being transferred in the next few days out to a remote island without internet and very limited other communication. I can still get mail though. I love you, man. I still pray for you and your family and ask God to help you out in everything you do. Hope to hear from you soon. 'Ofa atu, Elder Colin Francis Slade aka FaDed |
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