| Where George Lucas Went Wrong -Buzz - May 29 09:08pm | |
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Alright so the whole world has seen the Star Wars Prequels. If you are of the group who believes they are the best possible movies George Lucas has ever made, seek professional help immediately. This essay however is not for that group but for the group who has accepted that the prequels are merely good enough as movies on they're own. For the people who have gotten over the mistakes and decided to accept them, the people who don't realize how wrong they are. So you’ve gotten over Jar Jar Binks being in the movies. Hey he’s a cheap comic thrill for the little kids. You’ve gotten over the ridiculous idea of making an action/kids movie about a trade embargo. You’ve gotten over that the Midichlorians were a stupid thing to introduce. You’ve gotten over Jake Lloyd’s horrible performance and stupid lines. You’ve gotten over the completely unbelievable romance between Padme and Anakin. You’ve gotten over the horrible dialogue that came from said romance. You’ve gotten over all the lackluster performances of the actors in the movie, because George Lucas doesn’t know how to direct actors. You’ve gotten over the horrible makeup job and voice changing of Palpatine. I mean come on, you got the same actor, make him look and talk more like he did in Return of the Jedi. You’ve even gotten over George Lucas’ desire to have 500 special effects going on in every shot of every scene throughout the movies. He obviously doesn’t know that people can become desensitized to a constant bombardment of images. He was probably hoping to distract you from the horrible dialogue he had written. You’re spending so much time going “ooo, ahhh” to notice that “Hey this dialogue sucks.” Quite a lot to get over isn’t it? And yet you have, good for you. And yet you’ve still missed the point. George Lucas has completely screwed up the Star Wars movies from a chronological/revelation standpoint. His intention was that you would be able to watch Episodes 1-6 in order and still have the Original Trilogy give you the same feelings from your first viewing. This is the reason he never shows star lines for the ships entering hyperspace in the Prequels. These errors are on the scale that if for some reason someone had made a prequel to the movie Citizen Kane, and every 5 minutes you see the sled with “Rosebud” written on it clearly. And so here we are at why he screwed up, and it might be something you haven’t even realized yet. 1. Yoda being shown in the Prequels. “But he was so cool and great in the Prequels. It was awesome seeing Yoda kick butt.” I’m talking revelations here. In ESB we are introduced to Yoda having no clue who he is. This small green little muppet is simply acting as a guide and will show Luke the way to find Yoda, the great warrior. Revealing that he is the great Jedi Master at that point in the story is a great shock and good cinema. But now that’s ruined You see him throughout the Prequels and you now know who he is. Forever when new people watch the Star Wars Movies for the first time in order “as they were meant to be seen” there will be no more amazing revelation. He should simply have been mentioned as being a great Jedi Master, essentially retired living and training Jedi on Dagobah even throughout the Prequels making everyone wonder who this great powerful Jedi is and adding even more anticipation to seeing him in ESB. 2. “Luke, I am your father.” Watching Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader. The ultimate “whoa…” of the movies. Nothing can come close to this beautiful piece of work. Something so secret that the line in the script was “Obi-wan killed your father.” It would have been simple to keep this great moment perfectly intact if Lucas had been smart in his creation of the Prequels. Having Anakin go to the Dark side and Obi-wan fighting him could still have been included. Just simply having another student of Obi-wan that turns to the Dark side as well, and being severely injured and left to die before the final duel would have solved the problem. This allows Obi-wan’s “a pupil of mine, Darth Vader, betrayed and murdered your father” line of ANH to seem to have even more truth. You think Vader was this other student. Anakin’s fall still remains the same and his being left for dead as well works. You just have an ending sequence of deciding not to tell Luke what really happened to his father. This allows all things to be in balance for the original trilogy. 3. Luke and Leia are known to be twins from the end of Episode 3. You’re now going into ANH knowing that Leia and Luke are sister and brother. Everyone knows now that when Luke first sees the hologram of Leia he’s got a lusty gaze at his sister. Leia kisses Luke 3 times before its revealed they’re siblings. And the audience watching this knows it now from the start. Doesn’t that just make you go “ew?” Face it, there were ways that a good screenwriter could have kept it hidden that Luke and Leia were brother and sister. It could have been done by only talking about Obi-wan taking the boy. No real mentions of names. No actual hint as to where the other twin would end up. It would leave you wondering where “There is another” might be hidden away and giving you your first suspicions by Leia being able to hear Luke’s call for help. The revelation still stays in place. And remember this is from a purely chronological standpoint. I would never recommend a first time person to watch Episodes 1-3 before the Original Trilogy. Always watch the originals first due to the above facts. It would have been nice though to direct people to watch them all in order, and more importantly would have made sense. So there you have it, George Lucas’ failures to make his Prequels work with the greatness of the Originals. Of course he’s never really cared about that, he’s more willing to carve up the Originals to fit with the Prequels rather than the other way around. And you wonder how a Star Wars fan could pray and pray that George Lucas doesn’t make more movies. This is why. |
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InuYasha - Student 
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Quote: Of course I could be wrong, but I doubt it  i doubt it too _______________ Quote: Ahh, yeah that InuYasha dude r0x like hell !  "When You Earnestly Believe You Can Compensate For A Lack Of Skill By Doubling Your Efforts, There's No End To What You Can't Do." |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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Quote: Also, I agree with whoever agreed with Doobie's post. Thread over. good luck locking the thread  _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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One comment I have about the whole Obi being trained by Yoda is towards the end of RoTS, Yoda was going to train him a bit more. It was more specific about the area, but wasn't exactly limited to it. Also, the answer given about Masters teaching the yunglings would fit quite well. Another thing is that Obi never really spoke direct truth in the OT. Many of the things he said swayed heavily on his own point of view so maybe just have Yoda as being top dog on top of the council on top of the whole Jedi Academy was enough for him to be under his training. No real straight answer to this one I feel, but many different answers could be right. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Carve - Student 
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Quit trolling. It's dumb. Also, I agree with whoever agreed with Doobie's post. Thread over. _______________ © |
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Lucky Mintaka - Ex-Student 
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If you read the books in order then you would know who yoda is and that Luke and leia are twins and that darth vader is lukes father the suspense isnt the fact that you know its that the characters dont know and that they find out new mysterys along there journy. if george lucas screwd up his movies so bad then it doesnt need an article telling why. yes alot of lines that the actors say are corny but you try writing a script for a whole nother universe and how they would talk and say things. hell you try acting like your from another universe and see how corny it turns out george lucas made good movies and thats all that needs to be said since your playing a game about them. -Lucky _______________ Vasper Adept-1600 Comment Raydoe-150 comment Pink -Floyd 425 comment |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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Buzz said
Quote: Get a clue and stop telling other people how they should feel about the movies. Buzz, isn't that what your doing? If I happen to feel about the movies like George Lucas feels about the movies, why is that wrong? why are you telling me how I should feel about the movies? can't we just agree to disagree without you calling me a bootlicker? If people agree with you are they a Buzz-bootlicker? It's ok Buzz, were no longer 12 anymore, I wish I had a time machine to bring us back but we can't. Can another JAC make another article then, saying "Where George Lucas went right" or is it your way, or the highway, Buzz? _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Jun 06 2005 12:39am. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Plo I'll state this very simply. A lot of times when people watch movies, they want to take the journey with the characters. What you're saying is that no one should care if there's a guy standing outside of the theater before you go to see the movie shouting everything that happens. You shouldn't care because hey its not happening to you right? Get this through your Lucas-bootlicking head. People want to take the journey with the characters. They don't want to merely be spectators. Seeing Ep 1-3 first fully makes them spectators in the originals. Get a clue and stop telling other people how they should feel about the movies. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Plo Koon - Student
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I would've lied for half an hour and said "no no, are you crazy?" to her reply from the scene but that's right bail, there shouldn't be any suprises, have her watch 1-6 in order. He put that new dialogue into the DVD because people should already know that Darth Vader is Luke's father. What your not thinking about is all these suprises that where for you, are gone. The characters suprises are still there.The first time Luke knew who his father was. The revealation is for Luke. The only reason we got suprises and revealations is because he couldn't make and didn't think he would, make 1, 2 & 3, so he cut right into the middle of the action. What's really freakin' hilarious is young kid's now are acting just like you are about 4-6, with 1-3, because when we all saw Star Wars for the first time it was 4-6, our era. Kid's now a days like 1-3 more because it's there era. I was raised on 4-6 first, then 1-3, both while growing up so I feel I'm of both eras. For me, you shouldn't go seperating the two like they are different parts. It's all one huge book. The suprises where amazing and shocking but the story doesn't start at part four, you can say "oh bah forget that, I'm not gonna start anyone on starwars with 1-3," even though it's ment to be seen that way. She'll never have the same suprises we had, because it's a different time, unless you go back to the 2D vasaline speeder VHS versions  _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Jun 05 2005 06:53pm. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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I just watched ESB with Greet (my girlfriend). I found one new scene (dvd-version) to be particularly annoying. The new scene with the emperor (scene changed with Ian McDiarmid's voice, and some new dialogue). I found that the Emperor actually says "Luke is your son" (not literally, of course, but close enough). Greet didn't know anything about Star Wars whatsoever, but after watching that scene she said: "Darth Vader is Luke's father, isn't he?" Kind of takes the fun away from the Duel Scene in ESB. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. This comment was edited by Bail Hope of Belouve on Jun 05 2005 12:20am. |
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Dreamless - Student 
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Let's think about it this way. You dislike the prequels because Lucas tried to explain everything that happened in the OT. But if Lucas would have just picked a few things to include in the prequels and hadn't gone overboard with explaining everything there is to the Original Trilogy, you guys would be hating him for not explaining it all.He really can't do anything right with so many whining fans. There's just as much bad acting and corny special effects in the OT as there is in the PT. Look at them without bias. Sure, you're gonna' pick out all the bad things in a film if you're looking for things to complain about. |
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3th - Retired 
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Quote: Doobz comment = ownz all your opinions IMO doobz puckered butt cheeks = ownz memphis' lips much <3 memph! couldn't resist buddy _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! This comment was edited by 3th on Jun 04 2005 02:54am. |
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Memphis - Student 
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Doobz comment = ownz all your opinions IMO _______________ We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. <-=RA-NR=-> |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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Quote: We're never going to get that official LucasArts endorsement now. we were going to get an official endorsement?  _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Quote: I see, Obi Wan was a JAS 1st, taking classes done by Yoda, and became a JAP, the paddy of Qui gon Thx, I see now LOL, if you want to give him those tags, then yes. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor 
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I see, Obi Wan was a JAS 1st, taking classes done by Yoda, and became a JAP, the paddy of Qui gon Thx, I see now _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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We're never going to get that official LucasArts endorsement now. _______________ make install -not war |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Yeah, I remember at some point it was brought up Dash. From what I remember, all Jedi start out as having a master instructing them, before they become Padawans. So, Yoda was Obi-Wans instructor before he became the Padawan of Qui-Gon, or something along those lines. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider This comment was edited by Gradius on Jun 01 2005 11:22am. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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In some of the books (the jedi apprentice series I believe?) there is obi wan as a younglin/adolescent being trained by yoday and a whole group of other young jedi hopefuls. Every year or few months or something, jedi knights come along and choose who they want to be their padawan. Qui gon comes....you get the picture So technically he was trained by both. _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor
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Heh, wasnt Yoda supposed to have been Obi Wan's master instead of Qui gon Jinn? (Go to Dagobah, there you will meet Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me. [ESB]) _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. |
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doobie - Jedi Council 
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Here's what I think, having just rewatched (literall, seconds ago I finished) the Original Trilogy: Yes, the shock of finding out the relationship between Luke, Leia, and Vader is lost if you watch the prequels before the originals. but you know what... we ALL watched the originals first. I am 100% for suspending disbelief to enjoy movies, but you can only suspend it so far if you expect a modern adult to not know the relationships between the main characters, even if they've never seen the movies. That being said, I love all of them in their own ways. I'd put phantom menace last, mainly because I feel it did the least to move along the plot (outside of the whole finding anakin part, which could be summarized easily). I really enjoyed AotC (especially the IMAX version which cut out some of the stuff on Naboo between Anakin and Padme), I loved RotS, and of course the original trilogy rocks. BUT, I think we should look at it 2 ways. One way is as Star Wars fans or even just has people who were alive before the prequels. We know the connections inside and out in the OT. But I'd argue that it's difficult to watch the OT the same way after watching the prequels. Whether he consciously meant to connect the stories or not (and really who cares, who could blame him if he didn't have it all planned, he was just coming off a HUGE flop with THX-1138, his first movie, and while he was making ANH his second movie, American Graffitti was becoming a hit, even though his "thing" was THX-style weirdo films. Film history helps), he was able to take his original films and write the story around it so that when Luke tries to sway Vader in RotJ and Vader turns him in, then we're left with a shot of Vader looking out, you know he's struggling with the mere fact that he has a son who obviously embodies a lot of what Padme embodied. And when Ben talks to Luke on Dagobah in RotJ and discusses good and evil and how point of views can skew them, you connect directly to Anaking in RotS saying how in his view he was doing the GOOD thing by trying to harness the power to save Padme by turning dark. Granted, he didn't know he was being set up and Palpatine was a filthy liar, but his intentions were there . I can go on and on, and maybe I will someday, but I do feel strongly that the prequels, specifically RotS explain pretty much everything about why Vader is who he is.The second way to look at it is for the next generation, like your future children. How do you want them to see the movies? In 1-6 order, which logic says makes sense? or in OT-PT order, which is how we saw them? I think the episode titles are misnomers. Obviously Lucas had to put the stories in some sort of order. However, I don't feel it's his intention to have them viewed 1-6. He knew full well that we all would know about Luke and Leia and Vader when we saw the prequels, so he didn't try to hide anything that had been revealed 20 years ago. Instead, he filled in the backstory, providing us with a rich (yet often flawed) look at how things got to the point they were at in ANH. Knowing that real, honest to goodness time can't be altered, that the OT is the ORIGINALS, and holds the initials "shocks", I'd say a good idea would be to have your children watch them in this order. A New Hope (to establish the universe, Luke, Leia, Han, Vader, etc, as characters, but not to give anything away), Empire Strikes Back (to continue the story, have the "big reveal" still be a big reveal, and leave our characters at a very low point), THEN, in traditional cinematic flashback mode, go back to Phantom Menace and watch the Prequels through, then finish with the clear conclusion to the story, Return of the Jedi. I think that in this way we keep the major surprises (unfortunately losing Luke's recognition that Leia's his sister, although we as an audience do know of the connection and can cheer along when he figures it out), while taking the opportunity before Anakin's redemption to show Anakin's fall and to explain how his whole concern was to save those he loved no matter the cost to himself. Of course I could be wrong, but I doubt it _______________ -Academy Leader/Dictator/Defeater of DJ Sith and JACen Solo in the JAK+ Tournament -I do think it (the JA) will help convert dozens, maybe hundreds, to the dork nation... --me This comment was edited by doobie on Jun 01 2005 07:21am. |
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Odan-Wei Belouve - Student 
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Well, I have to say a few things about this: Georges Lucas is really not a director/writer. He's the creator of Star Wars, and I thank him for that. For the rest, a little modesty would have put a better Director and a better writer to make these episodes 1-3... Now concerning what should/shouldn't have been shown/told... Well, from the longest time Lucas intended to tell Anakin's story and its implications that lead to episodes 4-6. I believe he succeeded in that. I dislike the overall performance of the actors in all 6 movies, especially because the dialogues are crap, except for a few sentences that will remain for the posterity As a Star Wars fan, I'm quite satisfied, even though I dislike Jar Jar and the crappy romance between Anakin and Padme (it could have been done so much better!)... As a movie fan, Star Wars is poop in a nice package, yet it doesn't matter because it's the Star Wars fan that watches the movies Now, concerning the spoilers from episodes 1-3 toward episodes 4-6, I don't think they would ruin the experience, just modify the feeling. Sure full surprise is cool, but somehow, knowing things in advance builds up the dramatic effect, especially in a universe such as Star Wars where FATE is so important. My $0.02  Odan-Wei Belouve _______________ Padawan and brother to SmilyKrazy - Adopted in the Belouve Family by Fizz and Bubu, BELOUVE ON! - Vladarion, you'll always be in my heart and memories - Spam-Padawan of Jacen Aratan - [DJ is my beloved wife! - JA Family: Brothers:
Virtue, Furi0us, Vladarion, Hardwired, Janus, Axion, D@RtHM@UL, Motrec, Mike , xAnAtOs , Luke Skywalker; Little bro to SilkMonkey ; Special kind of brother to Kenyon ; Sisters in-law: Rosered, Ain-Soph Aur] Photoshop works: click here |
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Roan Belouve - Retired 
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I love to see all these passionate comments about the films. When people stop caring is when the magic, that is Star Wars, will finally die Just to pick up on Kha's point I would love to find out what the OMG parts will be for the people that get to watch 1-6 for the first time. The ones we had are gone but maybe others have been created. Also the prequels will make them view characters (Episode 4-6) differently to the way we did. It's been far to long between Articles BTW _______________ *Bro to Vaxxla,Padawan of FiZZandOdan-Wei Part of the mighty Belouve Dynasty-Knight of Nippledom.Twin of Selphestal!**Proud Master to Kaelis and Acura Friend to anyone who would call me the same . Pic by the amazing Majno (merry)
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Plo Koon - Student 
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Jeez, if you put it down that bad don't see it again . Some people buy art and keep it in they're house, some people make art and want to share what they created. I can only imagine he wanted to be a film maker, and he shared what he made, and some people liked it George, thanks for sharing _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on May 31 2005 04:57am. |
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3th - Retired 
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i'm not saying you're a jarjar loving kid. it's like a conversation i had with a friend of mine the other day. we were talking about the old dungeons and dragons books we read when we were younger, how cool we thought they were at the time. we've gone back and read them and we're like, "wow, that was really bad." now another book i read around the same time was Childhood End, by Aurthor C. Clarke, that still holds up as being a good book to me today. so was i wrong to love the crappy books as a kid? not at all, but i don't think i ever really expected them to win any awards. not only that but i think i might recognize that my love for drow elf assassins somewhat colored my appreciation for the real quality of the book. i guess you could say it's frustrating to see such a wonderful thing that Lucas presents become something less than it's potential. it could be so much better if he would just surround himself with some people that would tell him, "no, George that's crap, don't do it like that." and if george is making the movies for himself, then he shouldn't release them. that's the biggest crock argument for making art in the world. if YOU think it's art, then fine, keep it in your own house. but as soon as you put it out in the world, it is no longer yours. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Plo Koon - Student
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LoL 3th, don't act like I'm some jarjar loving kid, I just say he's fine, I've been raised different then you, I don't get so worked up over a character span of 1-hour, spread throughout 4 films. Get over it. And who are you to say there failures or mistakes? There mistakes to YOU, not to everyone, to YOU. you can say what you want, because Lucas said himself "I don't care what you think, I make it the way I want, for me". I have that attitude too, I'm happy there are people better than me, I accept there are better people, because I can't make something like that out of nothing, it's amazing - so I just say "thanks man for making something fun". _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on May 31 2005 03:32am. |
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