| Cursing and drawing the line | |
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Mookie - ex-Student  |
I no longer play on the servers, but I still sometimes frequent the chat and the forums. I don't want to be controversial on purpose, but I've lately had several conversations with our members on cursing in the Academy, on both sides of the argument. Obviously, the first rule on cursing in our Academy is 'don't'. The Jedi Knight games can be sold to anyone who is twelve years old, or older. The f-word has no place here, really, and I agree. But some recent developments (and I've been with the Academy long enough to know that these developments are indeed 'recent' and not a policy that has been active throughout my 1.5 year stay at the Academy) have caused me to write this post because I'm curious how you all feel about the question I'm going to pose you. Maybe a little information about myself is handy for you guys. I'm twenty years old, and I'm officially studying the English language. I'm no linguist like Casual, but in International Communication you obviously deal with the language enough to develop some sensibilities regarding its usage. I realize that a lot of young people visit these forums, our servers and our chat, and that we should keep them in mind when conversing. However, a few people (including myself) have become concerned about the JA's policy because it also extends to words like 'shit' and 'damn', and people have even been reprimanded for using 'bastard' and 'crap'. So where do you draw the line? As four-letter words become an ever more popular form of communication, it's hardly surprising that athletes might use them, or that one might slip out in a TV interview. NBC's Matt Yocum had just asked Dale Earnhardt Jr. how it felt to win a race at the Talladega Superspeedway for the fifth time, and he replied modestly that his famous dad, Dale Earnhardt Sr, had won there ten times. "It don't mean s---," he said. The sky fell in. Earnhardt was fined $10,000 and docked points, knocking him out of first place in the Nextel Cup series. But what's interesting is Earnhardt's defense of his naughty word. "It was in jubilation," he said. "When you're happy and joyous about something and it happens, it's different than being angry and cursing in anger. Of course, we don't want to promote that. But if a guy's in Victory Lane, jumping up and down, and lets a 's---' slip out, I don't think that's something we need to go hammering down on." Is he right? Does it make a difference whether the word is used in anger or exuberance? Does it matter whether it's literal or figurative? Is there a distinction among different types: obscenity, profanity, cursing, and blasphemy? When forbidding words such as 'bastard' or 'crap', are we becoming insensitive to the context of a situation? Do we realize people are becoming very self conscious in an environment where we are supposed to be relaxing? I'm not supporting the use of insults in our Academy, but I'm pointing a finger at our censors for becoming sloppy and insensitive to the use of our language. We have many members from many different backgrounds here, and I'm sure there are a lot of opinions on this subject. However, I for one wouldn't be at ease if I had to worry about using the word 'crap' in a room and getting a reprimand for it. Would you? -Ken This post was edited by Mookie on Apr 09 2005 11:48pm. |
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Aron - Retired 
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I prefer to see this place as a democracy with five people able to overrule anything they don't like  |
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 - Student |
Gradius for JA Plumber! |
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Tallepyon - Student 
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Gradius for JAC! |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Different JAK+ have different standards of what they concider "Bad language" and the council is looking into this. Right? I'd doubt it. It doesn't matter what standards we try to put in place, we will do things by our own standards when it comes to swearing. Look guys, this shouldn't be this big of a deal, honestly. Just don't use foul language. It's not that hard. I've been doing it for a year with no slip ups, you can do it too. No, we're not going to change things just because the lot of you want them to be changed. This is a dictatorship, not a democracy, remember? _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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 - Student |
You have to keep in mind that it's quite literally a case of when someone passes an exam and trial, they get given some extra forum access, an admin password, a pat on the back, and are told to have fun.  Not to piss anyone off, but at the end of the day, this is an amateur organisation. It's non-profit, there's no qualifications, there's no formal administration training, or any of that crap. Sometimes I think people expect too much from the JAK+... but then again, I think the JAK+ expect too much from themselves, and eachother. |
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3th - Retired 
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Quote: You know what? Swearing is bad! That's why it's fun! What bothers me is the standards of punishment. One dude might be like, "Dude, don't say that again!" while another might be like, "OMG BANT!11". It's silly. the JAK are pretty much like your local police force. what's the law? the speed limit is 30mph (kph, whatever you like )if you go over it you know you CAN be written up. chances are you won't get a ticked for doing 35, but what if there's a cop that's had a bad day? he might give you a ticket for doing 31. so yeah, that pretty much sums it up, not everyone is gonna enforce things the same, ever. because we're all human and not robots. how else are we like your local cops? the JAK also love doughnuts and are quite corrupt. _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Squibit - Student 
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Summary: Swearing = bad, Swearing only very rarly = not so bad Swearing not targeted at a person = not so bad. Different JAK+ have different standards of what they concider "Bad language" and the council is looking into this. Right? _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once 
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SaZ - Student 
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i TRY not to swear but when someone is expert at annoying ppl... hrrrr i cant do anything about it. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
The fact they cuss in every sentence doesn't mean they can't communicate well, though. They may just be used to it. I know plenty of people with communication skills and intellect that STILL swear. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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You people who have posted on here all rock. And we should all be in a massive orgy with Grad at the center. Unless I'm so tired that I really shouldn't be around at all, I think about what I say (includes typing) before I say it. I rarely swear because, following Orwell's rules, there are usually ways to express myself far more accurately, though not always more concisely. When I do swear, it's generally because a well-placed bomb will have more effect than more sober language. As far as I'm concerned, when I play JKA or CS and see people who never have less than one swear word or otherwise insulting language in each message, all I think is that instead of playing, they should go and learn to communicate more better. And I like saying "wtf?" because it makes me think of some nerd going "double you tee eff?" IRL looking all confused. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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DJK - Student 
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I dont like it when people curse directly to me, however, I dont take it so seriously when people say "Darn" or "shit" or "crap" when they loose a duel or just die at some point. Thats just the normal complaining and I do say "Darn" alot when I loose duels my self. I dont consider it an Insult since its not directed to anyone and its by far NOT the worst cursing word out there. So my point really is, if you have to curse do it mild and do it alittle, like once in a while, but I agree that people who curse all over the server for nothing and against others SHOULD be kicked. ::EDIT:: Btw, luv the picture, ken. This comment was edited by DJK on Apr 10 2005 11:28pm. |
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Roan Belouve - Retired 
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So many long posts so little patience. Can someone summarise  Leif I'm registered as a Jedi by our government, nuff said _______________ *Bro to Vaxxla,Padawan of FiZZandOdan-Wei Part of the mighty Belouve Dynasty-Knight of Nippledom.Twin of Selphestal!**Proud Master to Kaelis and Acura Friend to anyone who would call me the same . Pic by the amazing Majno (merry)
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SilkMonkey - Distributor of Cold Ones 
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Quote:
Quote: If it seems to come out in your typing as naturally as it does when you speak, then maybe you need to start typing slower. Wouldn't people need to start speaking slower as well then? Yep. Thats exactly what everyone needs to do. Anytime you are going to say anything, or type anything, take a 5 minute pause. That should give you time to "clarify" your thoughts in a way that leaves out all these naughty words... Which reminds me...I learned to swear at age 6. From my babysitter. After I learned the words, I noticed my parents used them too. But I didn't get the meaning (especially the f-bomb) until age 11 or so. I don't tell people to stop swearing in RL unless its involved in some kind of attack on somebody, and I won't do so online unless its a similar set of circumstances. Booyah. _______________ |-HK-47 -SilkMonkey: You are receiving a warning for being_too_sexy. If you do not stop, action will be taken against you.|| (11:13:43) � Virtue dances for Silk ||Smiling owner of Smilykrazy's 6000th comment =) ||Odan Wei's Proud Big Brother|| Janus is my official TaruTaru Cuddly Animal Type Person. ||(@Virtue) Or you could just be a man and set fire to your genitals.....you won't fall asleep for days after that.......trust me.||Thomas Skywalker er for sexy for sitt eget beste!!!!| Not changing sig until the JA loosens up. (Started: Aug 31, 2005) |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Quote: If it seems to come out in your typing as naturally as it does when you speak, then maybe you need to start typing slower. Wouldn't people need to start speaking slower as well then? |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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When I was a very small child, my parents would get upset with me. They would use these swear words, which is how I learnt them. This, and many other posts in this thread prove that each and every one of you are setting the example. Still, there are always people out there who won't set such a good one, and due to this, you will hear these words at some point. But even if you do hear them, that doesn't mean you should use them, especially excessively. It just really disgusts me when I see someone constantly swearing. I hear a lot of swearing, but too much just gets to you. If every line you wrote included a swear word, chances are, I wouldn't feel so good, since most swear words, if not all, refer to common, but not-so-pleasant-to-think-of actions we do in our lives. Getting back to my main point, you are all setting the example, so you may just want to think about what you do before you do it.  |
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Gradius - Ex-Student
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Quote: i'd like to tell a little story i was on a public server the other day and there where alot of ppl, and lots of swearing going on, ppl were going out of their way to swear and used every single swear word i've heard, one guy even had them as binds. neway eventually the word B**ch came up and somebody asked "what does that mean?" then he said "i'm 9 years old and my mum doesn't let me use bad words". this just made me feel guilty even though i hadn't been swearing. well that's the story, just think about how u would have felt once u found out there was a 9 year old kid on the server, easpecially if u were swearing. there really is no point to swear, i admit i swear alot in RL being a teenager but on servers nothing is gained by swearing. i find that in most situations where i would swear, "oops" does nicely as a replacement, only time that won't work is if u wanna swear at someone which u shouldn't be doing neway  but, that's all just imo You rock Akkarin _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Akkarin - Student 
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i'd like to tell a little story i was on a public server the other day and there where alot of ppl, and lots of swearing going on, ppl were going out of their way to swear and used every single swear word i've heard, one guy even had them as binds. neway eventually the word B**ch came up and somebody asked "what does that mean?" then he said "i'm 9 years old and my mum doesn't let me use bad words". this just made me feel guilty even though i hadn't been swearing. well that's the story, just think about how u would have felt once u found out there was a 9 year old kid on the server, easpecially if u were swearing. there really is no point to swear, i admit i swear alot in RL being a teenager but on servers nothing is gained by swearing. i find that in most situations where i would swear, "oops" does nicely as a replacement, only time that won't work is if u wanna swear at someone which u shouldn't be doing neway but, that's all just imo |
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Evil Squirrel - Student 
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I 100% (well no, 98.5%) agree on this, but would **** count as a curse word? _______________ "I'm leaning more towards the cookie side" - leif two time winner of the "SilkMonkey Award for Best Evil Squirrel Based Avatar Picture" award! Geology Rocks! |
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. - Ex-Student |
 Truth be told 'cursing' isn't really necessary but your going to have it no matter what you do. But when in doubt "/ignore (insert name here)" _______________ 4/20/2005----Left the academy because I did'nt feel welcomed. |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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Quote: Some people have to realize that there's no such thing as "Jedi". Well of course my friend, but they sure act or look like they act alot more composed and mature than some babling cussing spaz _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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Quote: The Council is working on it. (God, I love saying that ) Those are my favourite words, too. |
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Aron - Retired 
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Quote: Then the next time they get punished. I don't think a list should be produced. But I do think the JAK+ should agree on a certain level of what is classed as "bad language". The Council is working on it. (God, I love saying that ) |
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Katan - Student 
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Quote: I'd like to extend what Casual said about acronyms like 'wtf' and 'stfu' to "censoring" bad words. Typing ***** stars all over the place doesn't make your words any less offensive. exactly, its an all or nothing proposition. consistancy is important. I dont think it should be an all or nothing. I think we need to "meet half way" or something. We arnt the "NOT-NICE-WORDS-NAZI'S" or something As Aron said, Quote: Agreed. We should set an EXAMPLE. A REALISTIC example, not one that requires us to do a triple check on every line we type. Quote: What the Academy will NOT do is make a "list" of the "forbidden words". Quote: Personally, I really don't get offended by "shit" or "crap". HOWEVER, what I do find an important factor is the amount of using it, and the occasion. _______________ |
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Furi0us - Student 
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Stfu Grad! Your threats mean nothing! Anyone would think after how many times i've been kicked, banned, told off, whatever for swearing, that I'd stop. I don't. Why? It's just me. How I was brought up. Supposedly I can control what I type, which is fair enough for some people, but others see these as part of their everyday language. I'm one of the worst people when It comes to swearing. When I say something like 'shit' or any other 'bad' words, that's me controlling what I type. If I wasn't trying to control what I typed i'd have been banned long ago. I didn't really have a point I was just raving on, but yeah, you know... :/ _______________ You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count. |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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Quote: I'd like to extend what Casual said about acronyms like 'wtf' and 'stfu' to "censoring" bad words. Typing ***** stars all over the place doesn't make your words any less offensive. exactly, its an all or nothing proposition. consistancy is important. _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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