| Exploits/Protocol/Style - let's discuss | |
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Ian Jandos - Student  |
I was just on a server with a very angry dark side  user who was very upset with the imperfections that this game presents.Parrying on the 2nd hit was among his frustrations...and although better than myself...it is hard to reason with someone when you are not trying to cheat them. Even though my training seemed to dictate that as part of my offensive strategy. I suppose, you can play to just win (spam)...play to master standard swings...or play to master these "loopholes." What are thoughts about that in regards to playing here and outside of here? Also, which way is most efficient? Thanks -Ian _______________ Member #7625 | Since 7.6.04 The Archives This post was edited by Buzz on Jun 11 2005 07:30pm. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Quote: where is your honor? These are video games, not real life. They really don't need to be taken seriously. The simple fact is most everyone uses exploits in some game. I mean seriously my favorite move of all time in JK2 was the air-ydfa. That was not supposed to exsist. If exploits do exsist for whatever game you are playing, then its up to you. Personally I find they tend to be more trouble than they are worth. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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SaZ - Student 
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i dont see any honor in exloits. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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POYG - Student 
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Getting handed to me along with my a** about every time I walk on the mat with one of you guys. _______________ If you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at. |
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SaZ - Student
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Quote: I'm new to ja, so you can take my comments or leave them. I've played many online games and in every one of them there are ways to what some call "Cheap Kills". My philosiphy has always been "If its there use it". On the otherside when someone takes me out with one I don't whine.  where is your honor? _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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POYG - Student
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I'm new to ja, so you can take my comments or leave them. I've played many online games and in every one of them there are ways to what some call "Cheap Kills". My philosiphy has always been "If its there use it". On the otherside when someone takes me out with one I don't whine. _______________ If you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at. |
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SaZ - Student
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actually you can call ppl noobs if they cant tell if its spam you are doing or not... for example i scissor using movement at my best (scissoring without good movement is crap imo) and he says that i just spam... so after this i always have a question : if its spam... you will know what i will do next... so why you dont counter me? _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
oh forgot about this thread actually. What i meant by not a personal shot is about those who use and don tlike exploiting. Just used your name cause we were debating I think, cant remember actually. My other sentence said that if those exploiters stopped they would still be decent players regardless of exploits or not. _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Tido is 100% right (about the witch hunt thing, I won't agree with him on the exploits being cheap).. how come there's a new topic about these so-called "cheap ways of winning" every week? The few times I go on servers, I see students talking about exploits, and pretty much nothing else.. Quote: ...he said it was because of the popularity of JK3... LOL. |
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Carve - Student 
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From a purely personal standpoint... I'm a decent duelist as it is. I probably won't improve much further than I've gotten now; I'm at my best (when I'm playing at 100%, anyways). If it weren't for my obsession with not acting completely out of character and looking ridiculous, I would exploit the hell out of everybody. Why? Well, it's the same reason you shoot people in UT. Points. You get points for killing someone. If you have a bigger gun, you whip that gun out and use that instead, unless you have something to prove. I don't because I just don't want to. Same reason I don't do aerial fighting. _______________ © |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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How ironic, youve stated that your post is not a personal shot at anyone, but you are still using names in it. You can say a lot about a persons character if you talk to them over a game or see how they are acting sometimes.I have never said im judging anyone by the way they are playing this game, to do such a thing is just absurd. As ive stated already, there are ppl who play online games just for fun and dont care if they win or lose.If you constantly strive to be the best and only get satisfaction from winning duels, then its pretty logic that you will get worked up and/or frustrated after losing a few duels in a row. Quote: I can guarantee as well at least half the people you know that exploit can not use them and still win consistently. Im not sure how to understand this sentence. Most of the ppl i know who exploit are really great in doing so, which means that they are going to instakill their opponents nearly everytime they hit them.Nearly all of the aforementioned ppl are unable to win the same amount of duels without relying on exploits. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
Well here I go! *NOTE* this is by all means not a personal shot at ANYONE in the jedi academy* Masta I think you are talking about a person who is the extremist not just general people who like to win. Face it everyone likes winning and I think everyone gets satisfaction from it. When u win a duel you don’t go “aww man I won that disappoints me” And when I first started I wanted to win every duel. I measured myself, at the time , by which Masters I could beat or what was the best hit points I ever got on them. Slowly it increased and I saw improvement. I know a lot of people that exploit and I don’t think you should judge their character or morals by it after all it is a game. I can guarantee as well at least half the people you know that exploit can not use them and still win consistently. <3 da masta. SOS if someone is spamming one move you should eventually be able to figure out how to counter it because it is the same move over and over again. _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. |
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Ian Jandos - Student 
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Good stuff Tido...that sums it up succinctly. Be all you can be, and enjoy yourself while doing it _______________ Member #7625 | Since 7.6.04 The Archives |
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Tido - Student 
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Quote: to say the red overhead/backflip is an exploit is to say any move that takes advantage of the velocity engine (or whatever it is called) in the game is an exploit. you can flip out of just about any move to increase the damage and use speed/momentum to hit your opponent harder with just about any move. i have to respectfully disagree very strongly with Thomas on this point I'm also going to have to respectfully disagree with my beloved Thomas . Unfortunately there is no fine line on what is exploiting in jk3 and what is not. Everyone has a different definition. There are people in jk3 that think I'm a 'clean' fighter. There are people who think I'm a heavy exploiter. It really comes down to if you think aiming your saber at someone is unethical or not as I do not poke (moving your saber back and forth rapidly during a horizontal swing), wiggle, or sway. I've been playing the game for awhile now, and to be honest I just don't care if someone is exploiting against me anymore. I don't even give it much thought. It's just another opponent and you fight him - plain and simple. Complaining about how someone fights just isn't much fun. I'd rather focus hard and find a way to beat them (without exploiting); that is what is fun for me. Unfortunately the JA is getting a bit absurd about exploits and its advocates. It's almost becoming a witch hunt. I've watched students crucify each other because one thought he detected a 'slight wiggle' in some obscure swing. It's becoming too common for students to brand people as exploiters when they most certainly are not. I almost half-expect someone to create a skin and a mod feature that allows admins to brand a big 'X' on your jacket if they think for one second that you are an exploiter. The JA needs to offer more than just a lesson in jk3 ethics to confront exploiting. Anti-exploiting techniques need to be established and taught. It's always been my interpretation that the JA's mission (along with other things) is to educate and prepare students so that they can hold their own in the game. But Jk3 in June of '05 is not the same as JK3 in June of '04. The game evolves, and unfortunately exploiting has become a common practice. The JA's teachings have not kept pace with the rest of the game. The only antidote the JA offers its students against exploiting is for them to shake their finger at the offender. Instead students should be empowered with the knowledge and confidence to take on exploiters without dropping to their level. Exploiting is cheap. It's pretty desperate to be honest. But no matter how much complaining is done, people are going to exploit today and even more will exploit tomorrow. Might as well figure out how to stand up to them and take them down. Otherwise just spending your time playing the game feeling bitter and critical of everyone isn't going to be much fun. |
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3th - Retired 
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to say the red overhead/backflip is an exploit is to say any move that takes advantage of the velocity engine (or whatever it is called) in the game is an exploit. you can flip out of just about any move to increase the damage and use speed/momentum to hit your opponent harder with just about any move. i have to respectfully disagree very strongly with Thomas on this point _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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bono_bob - Student |
Losing is the secret to wining :p. Anyhow is the red overhead/backflip considered an exploit ( you can actauly do it better with a front flip if you time it perfectly) Sorry if it is, I just thouhg of it as a realistic maneuver you slice straight down cleaving through him and then baclfiping slicing out of him again. Ill try to do it less if you consider it a exploit, althouhg I have actauly done more damage with a red overhead/front flip. (100 hp and 100 shield to be precise) In other words its is slicing traight down and if you time ti right you do a front flip over them, raising your saber upwards and as you do the flip you pull your saber out of their head making massive head contact. (sounds painafull doesn't it) it isnt really easy to pull off, I did it more in a sense as a fluke shot, I mean the chances of actauyl hiting them witha vertical slice and then have the front flip over them pixel perfect are pretty low, I was surprised my self.) but yeah if that is an exploit I guess I wil be doing less Red Overhead. _______________ "Darkness is simply the absence of Light" "Is it not easier to snuff out the light completely than to make no shadow or darknes at all and create pure light?" "Is there a limit to Light?" - Jawa Jedi from a galaxy far far way of the one Lucas describes ( not in that galaxy ) |
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Jeramia Adept - Student 
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i play to have fun. and those who are serious need to step away from the PC for a while _______________ The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is. Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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I admit that I have to watch my Overhead Red/backflip I think thats bout it though. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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!SoS! Death Dealer - Student 
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I think move spammers are ones of very little skill. To rely on the same move over and over again, that is a shame. Learn to fight right and earn greatness don't be cheap at getting to the finish line before you should. Taking short cuts in life never really gets you ahead, but further be hide. _______________ DD "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice." ~Yoda |
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Ian Jandos - Student 
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Quote: Oh, and why was that guy you met even playing JK3 when all he did was to complain about imperfections in the game? I asked him the same question...he said it was because of the popularity of JK3...which makes me think that he is in it for the social aspect and is not there for "purist" sabering. As said before...you can't get bent...its a game. Use it as a tool for character. Moving to another point... So then, you could classify duelists perhaps in three different ways... 1. Spammer - Noob w/no instruction or little 2. "Exploiter" - who just wants to win/fun and perhaps doesn't realized that their repetoire contains a mixture of clean & exploitive moves. 3. Movement based, pinpoint accurate saberist, who looks for clean blows relying on superior timing & strategy. I would consider myself #2, moving towards #3. I hadn't heard much of exploits until recently...so obviously, I want to be a true student of the game without reproach...but without prior version (JK2) experience or lectures on the topic...it isn't something I arrived at through the evolution of my skill...but rather learning through incident.  Good Stuff -Ian _______________ Member #7625 | Since 7.6.04 The Archives |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Yes noone plays this game to lose.Theres a difference between getting satisfaction from winning duels and getting satisfaction from playing the game in general though. Most ppl cant have fun without winning duels and thats what ultimately leads to frustration and anger.Just imagine someone who cant have fun without winning duels AND is unable to win duels most of the time.This sort of ppl usually start relying on exploits to make it up for their lack of skill. Once even these techniques fail, they get even more worked up and frustrated and usually just give up and leave the server after a loss. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Jun 11 2005 06:19pm. |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
I dont think anyone plays this game to lose everytime, winning is just a way to measure your success and improvement. As far as exploiting to win etc... I quote Master Predator from 2 days ago actually. "If someone wants to use exploits against me I dont care, and if they beat me with them more power to them its just a game." Um effeciency wise exploits are faster and kil faster if thats what u mean. I only exploited just to get the duel over with quicker but now im like 2 months exploit fre so go figure! Also, Every swing can be countered by another and it is all a matter of footwork so you master that and you have a good base to go off of. _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This comment was edited by Balian on Jun 11 2005 06:06pm. |
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bono_bob - Student |
The most efficent way is the honorable way, since we all play for fun (which ironicly is the arguement that exploiters use) then it is not big deal to lose to an exploiter, unless its on a server that specifically bans it of course, now if you beat an exploiter without exploits on the average smoe pub server, I guess you got bragging rights (when bragging is not necessary a cool thing, but hey it is a pub server.) or you can just be the guy who beats everyone fighting clean and be very humble, and be well respected for it. _______________ "Darkness is simply the absence of Light" "Is it not easier to snuff out the light completely than to make no shadow or darknes at all and create pure light?" "Is there a limit to Light?" - Jawa Jedi from a galaxy far far way of the one Lucas describes ( not in that galaxy ) |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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Well I try to play without any exploits though Like most I do them by accident sometimes. I think to base ur style around them and too rely on them is noobish. On the pubs I'm pretty good even with the exploiters. But ask one of them to fight you w/o their exploits and they get mad. Why? Cause they reallyt know your better than they are without them. I say Master swings, timing, movement, and aim! _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Masta - Jedi Council
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The most efficient way of playing the game is by spamming certain moves.Its very easy to learn, very easy to perform and its very successful most of the time. Spam, spam, spam.Is it a poked right swing, butterflies, yellow scissors, aerials or overheads...everything is very efficient as long as you spam it. Spamming is imo the easiest way to win a duel and most ppl just play this game to win duels anyway. The only downside is that spamming is easily countered by more experienced users because of its predictable nature. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Jun 11 2005 01:09pm. |
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Thomasooo - Student 
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In my opinion, the most honorable way of winning is by playing it clean by not using any exploits (wiggling/poking, swaying, red overhead ---> backflip etc.). Oh, and why was that guy you met even playing JK3 when all he did was to complain about imperfections in the game? _______________ In the navy and LOVING it!
Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!
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