| The Jedi Academy - Light in the Darkness | |
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Balian - ex-Student |
This comes from Tido’s post in the other forum about the game and exploits but includes nothing about exploits. *NOTE* this is by all means not a personal shot at ANYONE in the Jedi Academy or a shot at how things are run, it is merely my perception of what I believe the JA to be* Now I am not a really outspoken person about the Jedi Academy but I have had something on my mind for awhile and think it should be said. This is not to be an insult or to show disrespect to anyone at the Jedi Academy and is highly opinionated. This also has nothing to do with me as well, except for the fact that I wrote it. I understand that this post may even destroy what relationships I have or even terminate my membership at the Jedi Academy but I believe it is for the good and hope that people will read this with an open mind and take serious thought about it. I know its long but please finish all of the post before commenting cause the most important stuff is at the end. The Jedi Academy should become a place where people can learn to navigate all aspects of the game at a competitive level, as Tido stated. If we can’t prepare people for the world outside of the Jedi Academy then I think we have failed in being a successful teaching Academy. For instance when I came to the JA sauce referred me and out of the goodness of his heart taught me the basics. I then actually got mad at some of the acts going on at the JA and swore it off for about 5 months. I came back and thankfully it had changed when I came back but I had learned a lot from the outside world. Now it is about the only place I play regularly because my BWN career is pretty much done. I think with the with new restructuring of the JA that the JAK+ should go outside the academy walls and fight and learn new techniques that are coming out or have been out but just hidden. Bring these techniques back and teach people to use them or how to fight against them. Even possibly take their Padawan’s to a CTF or Duel server with TS,and explain techniques and on how to strategize against other people. The reason for this is because in the Academy most students who have undergone classes or were taught by people there, is the same general style of play. Now everyone has their own variations but there are many more outside of the JA walls then inside them. I’m not saying everyone in the JA plays the same Id go with about 50 percent of the populous has similar techniques that they learned in classes or was passed down master to master. So for instance just a theory, we take people like Leif, Tido , Sauce, Masta, Kain or whoever else, who has played on various servers make them JAK+ and teach, then we’d have 5 or so people who have seen various techniques teaching different students all kinds of things. Students would be able to mirror a style they like that they’ve found in the outside world and the JAK+ would be able to teach it. With that we will have an Academy that is pumping out advanced students into the JKA world and making a name for itself not only as a really fun place to play with no flamers and lamers, but a good place to learn the basics but also to learn to be very skilled and be humble about their skills/winnings. The way I see the Academy is that it is the light in the darkness of JKA. It is THEE ACADEMY there is no place like it in the JKA world and I think it should be the best, have the best instructors and even better students.*not saying it doesn’t have the best instructors now either.* People should be able to come here and be taught how to be a well rounded player WHILE still having fun and obeying the written and unwritten rules of the game. Just think we make some sort of tag or way to identify that a person in the “Pubs” is in the JA. They play with great honor, respect and great skills on a public server. If just one person sees that, gets the info and comes to the Academy, learns great skills, humility, and more importantly to have fun that is one more person we can change in the JKA world and help bring back the honor the game once had and more importantly since it is the JEDI ACADEMY we can per say be “Jedi-like” in what we do. I think we are currently heading in the right direction with the restructuring. Please remember ---->; *NOTE* this is by all means not a personal shot at ANYONE in the Jedi Academy or a shot at how things are run, it is merely my perception of what I believe the JA to be* I personally would like to know what other people think about these ideas and my post. I hope this isn’t taken as an insult to anyone because it is not. It is just an idea to help spark other ones that people have cause face it as great as the JAC is 100 heads are better then 5  . I think other people have some good ideas too but haven’t thought to put them down on paper for others to read.To close I want to say that this post is not meant to be a flame fest and is not directed at anyone on an individual level it is just to spark ideas to better the Jedi Academy. I will not respond to flames or personal attacks as well and I don’t want this thread deleted either so please be civil and remember it is to better the Jedi Academy! *NOTE* this is by all means not a personal shot at ANYONE in the jedi academy or a shot at how things are run, it is merely my perception of what I believe the JA to be* So please tell me what you think! _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This post was edited by Balian on Jun 12 2005 07:27am. |
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| Comments |
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solitude - Jedi Council 
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actually, i think many people learn things from watching others better than them  _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge  Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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To be honest guys, we can't show all of you the best techniques to fight people outside of the JA. That's your job. Most people within the JA have the same style, with variations. So you know how to beat them. The only way you can truely learn how to fight those you consider to be the best, is to go out and fight them, figure out your own techniques. We can give you a start, but you have to take the initiative to do the rest. And to be honest, every basic technique that I've learned throughout my time at the JA as worked just fine on the public servers. I always get compliments on how good I am, although I use an alias so nobody knows it's me. Take baby steps. But watching demos of others play? I fail to see how that can be useful at all, other than to show you how other fights. You can't learn from watching other people. That's like saying you can learn how to drive by watching your parents. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider This comment was edited by Gradius on Jun 13 2005 01:33am. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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The JA is in the process of restructuring the ranks, if you havnt noticed sir.With time, there will be a lot more new JAK+. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. This comment was edited by Masta on Jun 13 2005 01:22am. |
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Attius Kaar - Student 
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I agree with smooth but why dont we go outside of ja like deq says to learn... we should be like jedi. In the Single Player, Luke say We here at the academy belive in Learning by doing" and thats what we should be doing... I have been on the team now for about a month and i have to say... Virt and grad tell me one thing or another like your doin this wrong or ya need to do this but that really never helped me... The only thing that really helped is when Carv or Deq or Vasper i came to them and said... look man i need some serious help and im not getting any... and they helped me... IT SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY! THIS IS THEE PLACE FOR JEDI TRIANING YET WE HAVE NO MORE THEN ABOUT 4 TRAINERS! now im sorry but if you sit here and do the math with me for a sec.... 4 trainer + 9000 members - 6000 member "inactive" gives you about 500 to 1 trainer to student ratio... in my view it should be like maby .... well smaller... we need more knights.. if i could get a master... it would be good... i think most of the people here need masters and its not gonna happen... I know people dont like my opinon so above this critic all you want but im going out with ONE quote.... "In this time of need why do we hold back the Chosen One?" What is the need? More Knights Who is the chosen one? Good people like karv and vasp and deq... all VERY GOOD and VERY DEDICATED and really good teachers.. This comment was edited by Attius Kaar on Jun 13 2005 01:17am. |
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sm00th! - Student 
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Quote: I like what sm00th! is saying. To expand on his idea, I say make these things scheduled events, like shooting a movie. I do believe that we could go into production mode, like a factory system. This would require the following (in order): 1. The Idea A group of people, players included, would sit down and decide a string of related events that can be put together to create a tutorial movie. 2. The Research This means hours and hours of demos to watch of top ranking events and duels. Then breaking down each part of the duel, or rather, several duels. Take slicing on the Staff for example. We would need several hours of footage from many different duels just to effectively show it to put our tips into pratice. 3. The Writing and Pre-editing After our research is collected, we need to write the script for the movie. This is key because it want the language to be simple and understandable Then the cutting and grouping of footage. 4. Voice-over recording and final shooting After the cutting and grouping of the existing footage, we need to shoot some scripted footage for the breakdown, then voice-overs for the scripted parts and finally.. 5. Final Editing and Advertising Putting it all together and making it all look good. I just realized that this is like the second part of the Holocron. What i am proposing is much more... how shall i say.. "do-able". We simply need to post a library of demos, organized by saber type, of the best players in the game dueling against eachother in 1v1 format. Naturally these demos will be screened before posting. I'm proposing getting demos from the likes of the following: Single saber type: -sh0! (probably the best all-around north american dueler, though ironically he is banned from the ja for misconduct) -dureal ([euro]team axiom, number 1 in the esl duel ladder) -Ransom -VIPER (some of the best med in the game) Staff saber type: -Kiddy -Evilwindu (euro) -Cube (euro) -Merlin (euro) Dual SAber type: -Dark Knight (the only person i've seen to truly make duals competative... really, really competative.) Anyway, i'll take the initiative and host some demo's of people for you, just so you can all get a taste of what i'm talking about. _______________ Go Ahead, Enlighten Yourself. This comment was edited by sm00th! on Jun 13 2005 01:05am. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Thats not very nice to say bono_bob. And thank you sete for explaining it to me. =) _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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bono_bob - Student |
Quote: Please don't take my post the wrong way. Speaking as a player who has competed with and as one of the top north american players in the game @BWN as well as competing in the international arena against the best clans from europe with my clan, Wovian, I feel I must divulge my opinion that the Jedi Academy is failing in its role as an entity tasked with teaching those members who have shown an interest in not only becoming a good "jedi," but a good saberist. This, of course is not an opinion that will curry me much favor with those currently in power at the ja, but I feel it is one which should be listened to. As for the community aspect of ja, it is one which i both enjoy and respect, and should not be changed. Recently, I was nearly banned from the ja by gradius for the decidedly egregious offense of teaching a student how to poke and wiggle. While many members of the ja abhor these types of tactics, it is important to note that there is not nor was there ever a specific line drawn in the sand which outlined one habit as "wrong" or "right". It seems to me common sense that the best strategy is the one that works the best. Unfortunately, many (leaders) here seem to disagree with this notion, and artificial limitations have been put in place, restraining ja members from experimenting with different styles, for fear that they will be labeled as "dishonorable". I do not propose a complete overhaul of the academy, but rather a more open mind from those in power here. Additionally, much more emphasis should be put on learning by watching. This means that demos of things like 1v1's between elite players should be made available at the jedi academy for veiwing. This is simply my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Sounds so much like a persausion line froma dirty sith lord  _______________ "Darkness is simply the absence of Light" "Is it not easier to snuff out the light completely than to make no shadow or darknes at all and create pure light?" "Is there a limit to Light?" - Jawa Jedi from a galaxy far far way of the one Lucas describes ( not in that galaxy ) |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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Quote: So you have silenced him because he didnt do what you have told him, which was to stop his teachings Not exactly, but you're close, it was because... Quote: and made fun of, and you continued to do something that I asked you not to do. That is why I first silenced you. It would stop his teachings, but it would have also stopped the "making fun of" bit. Anyways, we shouldn't be discussing that. Let's just stick to the topic of the thread. This comment was edited by Setementor on Jun 13 2005 12:11am. |
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JA > Yun - Student 
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I like what sm00th! is saying. To expand on his idea, I say make these things scheduled events, like shooting a movie. I do believe that we could go into production mode, like a factory system. This would require the following (in order): 1. The Idea A group of people, players included, would sit down and decide a string of related events that can be put together to create a tutorial movie. 2. The Research This means hours and hours of demos to watch of top ranking events and duels. Then breaking down each part of the duel, or rather, several duels. Take slicing on the Staff for example. We would need several hours of footage from many different duels just to effectively show it to put our tips into pratice. 3. The Writing and Pre-editing After our research is collected, we need to write the script for the movie. This is key because it want the language to be simple and understandable Then the cutting and grouping of footage. 4. Voice-over recording and final shooting After the cutting and grouping of the existing footage, we need to shoot some scripted footage for the breakdown, then voice-overs for the scripted parts and finally.. 5. Final Editing and Advertising Putting it all together and making it all look good. I just realized that this is like the second part of the Holocron. _______________ Bringing newbies closer to perfection since 1998. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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So you have silenced him because he didnt do what you have told him, which was to stop his teachings.But you havnt silenced him for teaching exploits, yes? _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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First of all, this is not the place to discuss what happened that night, Intrepid. Second, I didn't nearly ban you for trying to teach our members exploits. I asked you nicely not to do it on our servers, as a request from one respectable player to another. A request which you completely ignored, and made fun of, and you continued to do something that I asked you not to do. That is why I first silenced you. Then, you insisted on reconnecting to have yourself unsilenced. I silenced you again just for that, at which point you decided to go around laming people, which got you kicked. Get over yourself and respect the wishes of others, even if you don't agree with them. Third of all, your opinion is respected and appreciated on this matter regaurding our "out of date" teachings. However, we WILL NOT teach our students how to exploit, no matter how well it works. It is all about the honor, wether you want to accept it or not. We teach people how to properly play the game, not how to use cheap tactics in order to win constantly. If you want that, go join a clan. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider This comment was edited by Gradius on Jun 12 2005 11:43pm. |
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sm00th! - Student 
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Please don't take my post the wrong way. Speaking as a player who has competed with and as one of the top north american players in the game @BWN as well as competing in the international arena against the best clans from europe with my clan, Wovian, I feel I must divulge my opinion that the Jedi Academy is failing in its role as an entity tasked with teaching those members who have shown an interest in not only becoming a good "jedi," but a good saberist. This, of course is not an opinion that will curry me much favor with those currently in power at the ja, but I feel it is one which should be listened to. As for the community aspect of ja, it is one which i both enjoy and respect, and should not be changed. Recently, I was nearly banned from the ja by gradius for the decidedly egregious offense of teaching a student how to poke and wiggle. While many members of the ja abhor these types of tactics, it is important to note that there is not nor was there ever a specific line drawn in the sand which outlined one habit as "wrong" or "right". It seems to me common sense that the best strategy is the one that works the best. Unfortunately, many (leaders) here seem to disagree with this notion, and artificial limitations have been put in place, restraining ja members from experimenting with different styles, for fear that they will be labeled as "dishonorable". I do not propose a complete overhaul of the academy, but rather a more open mind from those in power here. Additionally, much more emphasis should be put on learning by watching. This means that demos of things like 1v1's between elite players should be made available at the jedi academy for veiwing. This is simply my opinion, take it for what it's worth. _______________ Go Ahead, Enlighten Yourself. This comment was edited by sm00th! on Jun 12 2005 11:24pm. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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Carve's second point is exactly what I've been thinking for a while. Not that it's a bad thing, but playgrounds often have rules that need following too. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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Setementor - Jedi Master
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That's true, Darth Carvonus, the game may be slightly dying, but there are still many active servers around. Classes are packed, the Academy's just slowly getting more up. I still see people learning, including myself. It's always been a school to me, and a fun one at that, whatever may have changed over time. |
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Carve - Student 
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JKA is a dying game? Since when? Maybe the populations have died down a bit but that's unavoidable with exposure to newer games. I load up the in-game browser and there are tons of servers with 10, 15 players in them. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong (right?) places? Anyways, I agree with what Deqlyn has to say for the most part, except the Academy has become less a place to learn and more a place to chill out and relax over the past couple of years. While, of course, things used to be silly now and then, there was an undeniable atmosphere of underlying seriousness and dedication when I first joined. Classes were always packed, for instance. I've always tried to stress the importance of being here to learn things and while I'm not going to get to the point where I'm saying everybody is here to suntan rather than learn how to attack and defend themselves, I still think that people view the Jedi Academy as a playground, not a school. That's one of the major reasons why we're having so much trouble with respect, obeying the rules, etc. There. Those are my two credits. _______________ © This comment was edited by Carve on Jun 12 2005 05:33pm. |
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bono_bob - Student |
All I have to say, isnt there isnt really much to learn out side the walls of JA + besides the cheap stuff, or the stuff I havnt shared yet :p *twitches eyes funny* (trust me its just useless easter fun eggs on the normal pre made levels) I have pretty much seen it all before I even got the game for computer, the academy is just a great atmosphere to train and dueling over and over with a determined mind is a way too go besides the other training techniques that the academy knows. Ok maybe I havnt 'seen it all', but my mind constantly comes up with every little possability that i may not even seen ( and some moves which I unfortunately can not pull off do to my poor motor, reflex skills ) Yes all the training and teachings will be similiar, after all everything is like each other since it is all using a saber, all about timing, all about right swing motions, it is all on the same boat. I would like to especiall thank everyone in the academy for making the academy the place it is, and for allowing us to not only master our saber skills, but to enjoy an awesome community ( sorry of this post does not contribute that much and is more of a bob rant ) _______________ "Darkness is simply the absence of Light" "Is it not easier to snuff out the light completely than to make no shadow or darknes at all and create pure light?" "Is there a limit to Light?" - Jawa Jedi from a galaxy far far way of the one Lucas describes ( not in that galaxy ) |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Well I wasn't gonna be ur friend anymore Deq but I said "oooohhh well, what the heck!" Great post. I play on the pubs alot. I see all kinds of styles. There are alot of good ppl out there. Its expected to want to bring that knowledge back to the Academy. Once you get past the ppl that are in it just to win for the sake of winning, it's fun. I always keep my eyes open or new moves ro movement techniques I havent seen. When it comes to JA members coming out and finding these things it should be more experienced players or JAK+. Newer members wont really know what to look for because they'll still be learning the basics. I do think there should be a class or a lesson plan made up about how to get past exploits and other things. It should be taught to the more experienced players. That way they can pass that knowledge on as they help each other out. This is just a game. A fun game. Those who know me know I'm a dueler and not much eles. I have fun dueling. I have fun learning as much as I can about new techniques so that I can have better duels. Anything that gives the JA members a better understanding of JKA is a good thing. The way the JA approaches it should be considered carfully I think. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Setementor - Jedi Master
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I've learned just about everything I know here, and it works fine on public servers. |
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Tido - Student 
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Oh noes, I've been quoted! eek! On TS, we call it the 'bubble effect'. Within the JA, you can make yourself into a very formidable weapon, but you'll have to play hard outside of the JA to really get that weapon sharp. And yeah my analogies stink. Also I don't think you'll be seeing jk3 'die' anytime soon just yet. And yeah, Gradius and I can never come to an agreement on this issue lol. Oh wells we still <3 eachother. We just have different views on what is the priority of the JAK+. There is the admin side and the teaching side, and everyone has a different opinion on what should be more the focus of the JAK+. Anyways, what you just mentioned Deq is easier said than done. It takes a lot of work to stay razor sharp in jk3, and doing that ontop of all the other duties the JAK+ has is quite a feat. This comment was edited by Tido on Jun 12 2005 02:38pm. |
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Krazzed - Student 
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i think is a good idea epically about the JAK+ going out on other servers and learn new techniqes (i need a dictionary cuz i cant speel 4 beeanz) and bring them back to the academy and teach em. just my thought though krazzed _______________ (\__/) (O.o ) (> < ) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
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AvaloN - Student 
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A very good post Deq Being open to style-influences from outside can only be a good thing if u ask me. Gradius has some good points tho, differences in Mods used can make certain techniques/styles less effective or even overpowered. I also found (as a new player) that almost everything u guys have taught me so far works surprisingly well on other servers. So if there is a general JA-style, its a good one. Still, i think its good to expand our horizon and keep an eye open for good style/techniques from outside the Academy. |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
A tag to use on pub servers? JAS. _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade 
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey 
Jools is my best friend.
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID |
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Gradius - Ex-Student
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I don't see why a thread like this would make you lose friends of even get your account disabled. I think you're a little too cosed minded about what can be said around here without being offensive, Deq. But anyway, Tido and I have talked about this on many occasions, we can't ever reach an agreement on it though lol. Yeah, the styles of JKA players have evolved alot, especially over the past 7-8 months. Especially with the different mods being used on the servers. I go "pubbing" almost every night. I go to random clan servers under an alias, and test my knowledge of the game against players who consider themselves to be the best. And honestly, I've found that the most basic tactics work just as good as anything else. We as teachers could probably work harder to teach the students every single tactic in the book on how to do better against players on public servers. But what would it do really? Three factors are to be evaluated. First and formost, the mods. What works in one mod may not work in another. As well all are aware, no two mods are the same, so certain tactics could become irrelivant when playing on other mods than JA Reloaded. Blocking, parries, damages, all play a factor there. Second, JKA is a dying game. So we go and figure out awesome new tactics and teach people to use them. How long would that last until the game completely dies. Six, seven months tops? Yeah, JO is still a pretty lively game. But that's due to alot of those players hating JKA with a passion. Third, part of the way we teach the students is to have them create their own style. We can only show you so much, it's up to you to figure everything else out. We can show you beginner techniques, all the way to advanced ones. But they will only cover so much. And we can only do so much at one time with the number of active students attending classes. Now look, all of this is just my point of view. I know that as I read over it my thoughts are going to seem a bit uncollected, but it's midnight and I'm tired.  Basically, all I really want to say is that what we can teach here is limited to each person. Some people may not have the patience to show you every little trick in the book. Does that make them a bad JAK+? Not at all. I myself prefer that the students learn these tactics from eachother, or on their own. I am only going to show you so much throughout my time here. Ask my padawans. I have taught them everything I know about using staff, including fighting other saber types. But I tell them to create their own style, and not to mimic mine. That's what we want encourage. We can show you the door and hand you the key, but you have to take the extra steps to walk through it and see what's on the other side. This is a good thread Deqlyn, and I admit at some point it needed to be said for many reasons. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Balian - Ex-Student |
Just imagine how good the JKA world would be to play on if just 25% of it were model Academy members! _______________ What man is a man who does not make the world better. This comment was edited by Balian on Jun 12 2005 07:59am. |
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JA > Yun - Student
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I agree that there is a definitive style of dueling within the Jedi Academy walls -- perhaps we should be looking to expanding our horizons a bit more? If you're suggesting to use a tag outside the JA, may I suggest that this be it: JA > Padawan The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Deq has the rest of the points covered, including mine. _______________ Bringing newbies closer to perfection since 1998. This comment was edited by JA > Yun on Jun 12 2005 07:53am. |
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