| Lightsaber Forms Project | |
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NofrikinfuN - Retired  |
Calling all hardcore modders! http://forums.filefront.com/showthread.php?t=198950 Here is a little doozy I stumbled on over at JK3files. I had actually been drawing up designs for such a mod myself, before I even found this, but was only doing so as a hobby... Ya know, since I don't know the first thing about modding. The basic idea is this: Rather than having the same 3 forms we've been using since the beginning of JK2, why not make 7 forms based on the EU descriptions? Here they are on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat Now, I'm not talking about doing all of this at once. Saber stances already in the game, or variations based on the dual and staff saber (Having one of two blades turned off) could yield between 9 and 11 total stances, depending on whether JK3 still has Desann and Tavion's stance. These could be used as fillers for the big 7 until we could organize some serious animation modifications. Now, beyond the physical forms themselves, I think it would be VITAL to include a system to limit which forms can be taken together. My proposal for this problem is a point system, not unlike the current system for selecting force powers. I've drawn up an outline to this idea here: http://www.geocities.com/nofrikinfun/ Another thing I would be interested in including is an attribute system, as seen in MANY RPG's, with attributes to modify damage, defense, force points, special attack costs and force regeneration. (Maybe even HP or something.) I don't know if attributes are possible, but my guess is that they will be hella complicated. The reason I want an attribute system goes back to the chart I made up for the forms. Basically, I want each form to have latent and active modifiers for various attributes the form compliments. For example, Form III is a heavily defensive form, so it should have a small latent defense modifier, and a larger defense modifier when its in use. Anywho, I'm rambling now. If you want to know more, check the various url's I posted.  This post was edited by NofrikinfuN on Jun 29 2005 03:15pm. |
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Do you think a Lightsaber Forms mod would be cool?
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Pink_Mintaka - Student 
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 /is speechless (in a very VERY good way0 |
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Vruki Salet - Student 
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How could you make a demo while not playing?  |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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Here's the list of commands: /g_synchronousclients 1 /record "name you want for the demo" /g_synchronousclients 0 /stop Note, if you are demoing while playing the game, you don't need to do the synchronous clients commands I believe. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Vruki Salet - Student
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It's still too much in pieces with too much work left to put it together to make anything cool looking, or at least I think. Wait til I get the control working at least for the basic swings. I hope that'll be by this weekend. Can you tell me how to record a demo or a movie from inside JKA? |
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SaZ - Student 
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wow! it would be cool if you could make some in-game-footage of how everything looks in game. yeah i know you are far from finishing it but i believe you could still show us some parts  in other words you got me excited lolz!  _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Vruki Salet - Student
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Since last time there wasn't much I wrote that had to do directly with the saber forms themselves I thought I'd come back and tell some of the ideas I have to make them. First remember the "duelling advantages" score I mentioned before. That's important because the tide of battle can turn on it. Having a higher duelling advantage then your opponent can increase your damage to him if you hit, increase the strength with which you can knock his saber away and/or the amount of control you take over his saber in a cross. It can also let you use any openings he makes in his defense to le t in a quick strike or stab. If you don't have enough DAs then you can't. (Perhaps you're too preoccupied with covering your own butt to think about it or something.) The different forms vary from each other in the following ways: ______________________________ +Offensive or defensive bonuses An offensive swing will be strongest in forms 4,5 and 7. Form 3 will be quit a bit stronger in defensive swings, especially when deliberately parrying. Form 5 will have a slight bonus in defense, more so when deliberately blocking. Form 2 will do the most DDP "damage" in a successful duelling attack even if it's swings won't do the most actual health damage against a body. Form 3 will do the least amount of DDP damage in a duelling attack but the neat thing is that Form 3 is good at wearing away an *attackers* DDP when his attack swings are defended against even with a block. It might take a while but a Form 3 user can sometimes win just by defending until an attacker tires out. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Different swing animations Even before I or whoever helps makes any new animations there are many variations in the existing animations I can use. Each stance of the five single saber stances includes a set of quick basic swings, then those can be made a bit longer, slower and "heavier" by adding on their starting sequences, then even more so by playing adding on starting transitions. Some unique swings can be made from pieces of other animations like the the flurries and katas, and from the saber lock "win" animations. Then slight variations of these aren't super hard to make in Dragon or if anyone wants to bother XSI or 3ds Max. I have some animations, including a lot of blocks, that a guy named Keshire made and released but they need to be prepared first and that's a bit of work. If anyone wants to do it maybe I could teach him how. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Swing speeds Different forms will have different swing speeds in various modes. Form 2 will be a bit faster all around. Form 3 faster in blocks and better at speeding up parries to match attacks. Form 4 will be faster in attack swings and slower in defense being less capable at catching up to attacks. Form 5 is slightly slower all around. I'd like Form 7 to actually have a bit of randomness in the speed of attack swings but I don't know if people will like that so it's optional I guess. In any case Form 7 will inhibit an opponent's ability to speed up parries to catch attacks since it's famous for its confusing timing and I want some feature to demonstrate that. Form 8 will have very fast critical attack swings. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Different costs to do different moves Some moves will cost Force Points, some will cause reductions in DDP and some will reduce Duelling Advantage points. Some moves will be off limits to certain Forms, while the Form is being used in combat. Most swings will cost FP. How much these might be is broken down here to give an idea: Form 1: 8 pts to block 4 pts to parry 4 pts to attack 20-60 pts to critical attack ------------------ Form 2: 8 pts to block 4 pts to parry 4 pts to attack 20-40 pts to critical attack ------------------ Form 3: 4 pts to block 2 pts to parry 6 pts to attack 20-60 pts to critical attack ------------------ Form 4: 12 pts to block 6 pts to parry 3 pts to attack 20-60 pts to critical attack ------------------ Form 5: 6 pts to block 5 pts to parry 4 pts to attack 20-60 pts to critical attack ------------------ Form 7: 8 pts to block 4 pts to parry 4 pts to attack 20-50 pts to critical attack ------------------ Form 8: 10 pts to block 4 pts to parry 4 pts to attack 20-80 pts to critical attack The amounts for "critical attack" aren't for sure at all. They might go down. They will vary according to the type if attack. If you run you will have a penalty to your DA (or your opponent will get a bonus to his) in all Forms except 4 and 8. Running speed will be reduced in Forms 3 and 5, and walking speed also in Form 5. Walking speed will be increased in Form 7 and running speed will be increased in Form 8. A slow walk forward while attacking with Form 5 will increase your DA against an opponent unless he retreats or unless he uses Form 3 and doesn't try to move forward. If your DA is quite a bit higher than your opponent's and you use Forms 5 or 8 then you will *force* him to retreat unless you using Form 5 and he is countering it with Form 3 (or unless moving back would kill him like make him fall in lava or something). Jumps, rolls and cartwheels will cost DDP unless you have Form 4 or 8. They will cost the most for Form 5 I think. The highest jumps will be for Form 4. Likewise only Form 4 will be allowed to do wall gripping, wall running and possibly flips in saber combat. Maybe Form 8 can do flips I don't know yet but anyway flips are just decorations anyway. I'd like to add in some more special moves like a quick dart based on the hop animations and a forward moving whirling dervish-like spin for Form 4 that covers a lot of ground fast. Does anyone care to animate Sidious' flying corkscrew act he does in his office? ______________________________ ______________________________ +Ability to block blaster bolts Forms 1, 4, 8: deflect to random direction: fair reflect back at shooter: poor deflect to crosshair point: no can block while swinging: no ------------------ Form 2: deflect to random direction: poor reflect back at shooter: no deflect to crosshair point: no can block while swinging: no ------------------ Form 3: deflect to random direction: excellent reflect back at shooter: poor deflect to crosshair point: no can block while swinging: defensive swings ------------------ Form 5: deflect to random direction: good reflect back at shooter: good deflect to crosshair point: fair can block while swinging: yes ------------------ Form 7: deflect to random direction: good reflect back at shooter: fair deflect to crosshair point: no can block while swinging: yes Form 7 Special: Reflected bolts do more damage back at the shooter than when they came out of the gun to begin with. Think like so: excellent = 9.99 out of 10 complete success good = 9 out of 10 complete success fair = 8 out of 10 " poor = 7 out of 10 " even poor is high since "complete failure" could mean death ______________________________ ______________________________ +Saberthrow Only Forms 4,5 and 8 will have saberthrow though I'm open to arguments for the other Forms. Tell me about who did it and I'll decide if it's a case for another Form to have it. I want Form 4 throw to be straight and fast like Yoda's in Episode III, and Form 5's to be the strongest. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Critical attacks The Forms will vary in the types of critical attacks they can do and when the can do them. All Forms will be able to do a variety of criticals easily against any opponent with no DDP. These can include simple yet deadly slashes and stabs, or flurries or katas or what-have-you. I might want to have some in pre-scripted animations in the fashion of saber locks to make the "marks of contact" you read about in lightsaber combat articles, in cases where a death blow is practically guaranteed. But sometimes you might be able to make a special criitical attack even if your opponent still has DDP. All Forms will be able to "earn" criticals by making certain combinations of successful duelling attacks. An example might be 2 successful attacks to his right chest followed by a third to his head, or something like that. Remember that since he has DDP left these attacks won't actually wound him to be called "successful." They'll just lower his DDP like usual and they'll probably be auto-blocked in the animations but they're still "successful." Also I know this isn't realistic but it's mainly a gaming device to add more strategy into duels. Pretend it's a sequence of swings intended to distract your opponent's attention or something. Also of note is that Form 2 might be better at these if I allow them to count hits to *adjacent* hit locations in the combos as well as the proper hit locations, in order to mimic it's "precision." Anyway in addition to these cases are some others: Any dueler with enough DA points over his opponent can do a critical attack when his opponent is in a vulnerable position including: a big saber knockaway from a parry, a wide open transitional move like one of those spins you do sometimes, a knockdown, maybe special moves like rollstabs and katas etc. You will lose DA or worse if your opponent blocks or parries you though. A Form 2 user will often be able to bypass DDP and do small critical attacks right to his opponent's body, unless his opponent is very cautious in his moves or parries & blocks well. These are just well placed slices and jabs that can penetrate defenses. Form 3 users will be poor in critical attacks. Boohoohoo. They'll have some though like good disarming techniques (with or without the opponents hand off too) and some simple cuts and stabs to kill with after a while. I'm going to try to think of some cool kinds of special criticals for 7. Any ideas? A Form 8 user will have a slightly tough time getting criticals in unless circumstances are just right and his opponent is in a certain kind of disadvantaged position but when he is watch out because Form 8's criticals are the most devastating. Don't try any fancy moves on slippery slopes in a fight with an Form 8-er or there won't be enough bacta in the galaxy to put you back together. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Force powers Some Forms will restrict the use of certain force powers while in a duel. I can't remember the details atm but I wrote them down somewhere. Also some Forms can aid in defense against offensive powers. I know I want Forms 3 and 7 to be able to defend against lightning for example. Forms 2, 4 and 5 can use push/throw as can 7 if we accept that Darth Maul used 7. 2 & 4 can certainly use lightning and 7 & 5 can use rage. I'm open to suggestions on this idea. Eventually I'd like to make more, enhanced powers that go with different Forms in combat. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Dealing with multiple opponents Since my system mainly deals with duelling a single opponent I want to make special ways to quickly, efficiently deal with multiple opponents. Sometimes this will mean using special force powers (like 360-degree force wave) and sometimes special Form-dependent attacks. This is another "eventually." Once my saber system is being used, at least by testers, I'd like suggestions on how to make it work in when fighting multiple opponents. Like how to make a kind of dueling view mode like the one I've got but for 2 opponents. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Whatever else I think of later or you suggest & I like & is possible. Some of this might be confusing since maybe my saber system isn't really clearly explained. I'll try to answer questions if you have any. So far my mod is for single saber only. After that's more-or-less done I will tackle duals and staves. I want to transform the way those are used, especially staves since control of a lightsaber staff is supposed to be nothing like controlling a regular lightsaber sword. Aiddat and I had the idea, that we think is cool and funny, that since using duals and staves is supposed to be hard not only should it cost a lot of game points to "buy" such skills but if you mess up your controls you won't just do a wrong move, you'll introduce yourself to the blender. Yukyuk. And so it shall be insha'Allah. "Put that staff in TRAINING mode Padawan!" This comment was edited by Vruki Salet on Feb 06 2006 06:33am. |
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Vruki Salet - Student 
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OK I'll try. My mod is more than just forms and even just the saber part is ("going to be" quite a new system altogether, so a good part of what I've done so far is for saber combat generally.I've implemented a few ideas one at a time, using a fresh clean source code for each, to test the concepts. Lately I've begun sticking them all together. The source code I've used is from the OJP project although The feel of saber combat in my system will not be much like theirs. I've disabled their most obvious saber system features such as autododging, mishaps, fatigue (residue of their fatigue system might still be there atm but it will be removed or replaced with my own that isn't tied to force points), stuns etc. I'm using OJP mainly for their bug fixes, some improved saber hit detection code, and most of all the potential to script NPCs with Icarus like in SP maps. That's really cool and a big deal. (If only I knew how... I'll need mappers esp with knowledge of Icarus or seige maps!) Things I have got working separately so far, in no particular order: ______________________________ +Less randomly-bouncy saber clashing This makes for more cinematic fights by far. I had implemented this nicely in basejka code but the OJP code has a similar thing going already that's good too. I plan to make the control of your own and your opponent's saber in a parry a significant part of duelling like it is in real fencing. The end result ought to be a much more controlled look and feel when sabers hit then there is in basejka. ______________________________ ______________________________ +New saber controls and new view mode for saber duelling I'm having two systems for controlling your saber. When fighting against gunners the normal controls will be active. Your view will be free and mouse-controlled, and swings will be controlled by your movement directions as in basejka. But when you're in a duel with another sabrist you need more control so I've implemented a more sophisticated keyboard-based saber control system. At the same time your mouse hand is freed by a new view mode where your view is locked on to your opponent. Your hand can be off the mouse and the movement keys move you towards or away from or around him in relationship to your facing him. This mode is disabled and you go back to mouse control while you press the USE button or if your saber is off (i.e. so you quit the fight and run away haha). With these new things you can stand in front of your opponent and swing and counter-swing much more that you can in basejka where you know the style is mostly to run by someone swinging as you pass or jump back. You can concentrate better on your blades and hopefully have nice volleys. ______________________________ ______________________________ +A way to break the existing saber swing animations down into 3 each: a light quick version, a medium version, and longer heavy version This is kind of like saying that each of the five single saber stances has it's own blue, yellow and red sub-stances. Combined with control over other swing attributes such as speed makes for a lot of variation in swing animations needed to differentiate the Forms. I'd like to make custom animations too but more basic kinds of swings are already available than basejka gives access to. The process also makes a lot of other animations available for swings too like some used normally in saber locks. Some of those might look good, or not. The timing has to match or be tweaked or they don't work well. (There's a cool kick in there but I haven't got it to work right yet.) ______________________________ ______________________________ +Defense points based on your saber instead of personal energy shields I have this thing called Duelling Defense Points. A saberist gets them when his saber is on. They're lost little by little from your opponent's attacks and/or reflecting blaster bolts. As long as you have some left most saber attacks won't touch your body because you fend them off with your saber. When they are gone though you're done for because any successful attack by your opponent will make contact with your body and do the kind of damage you'd expect from a lightsaber. A few kinds of attacks can get through DDP and go right to the body: critical attacks you can earn in combat according to your form, and attacks to parts of your opponent's body that he has made vulnerable with a risky move or that you have made vulnerable by taking control of his saber in a cross (that is, in a saber-clash event). DDP regenerate quickly or slowly according to what you're doing. Meditating is best, running around with your saber lit is worst. I originally got rid of personal shields altogether because I don't like them and they're not starwarsy but I decided to keep them in the code for potential use by gunners. ______________________________ ______________________________ +Character attributes read from a special RPG data file This was necessary as a way to record what form you use and has grown into a limited RPG character record. The important thing for my mod is it makes RPG-style character development possible. (Not so relevant to just saber forms though.) ______________________________ There are a few other things I've done too, like part of a system that gives you a "duelling advantages" score that increases and decreases according to circumstances in the duel and environment combined with your saber form. Also some improvements of the OJP tab-bots when it comes to their saber duelling style was necessary to test stuff on them before it's ready for human testing but that's not relevant to the final game. Probably a few other things I'm forgetting or that won't make the final cut. Oh I'm using a combination of where in the swing your saber hits something combined with what part of the blade hits to increase or decrease damage. Most swings are strongest around their midpoint and reference to that is already in the code for red stance. Also in RL swings are strongest toward the tip of the blade while blocks are stronger closer to the hilt. I put in code to detect that. It can't be too precise though because even with the OJP trace fixes the game's hit detection is inaccurate. You'd be suprised at the variable numbers that result from standing in one spot whacking the same frozen NPC's stationary saber with the same swing animation over and over. I'd guess there's an average 15% variation with all factors equal so I can't do much better than determine which third of the blade has hit but that works out OK. I have a couple things I want to try to help manual parries because they are hard. One is to give the HUD (which I'm minimizing btw) a kind of "early warning system" about which direction a swing is likely to come from. Another is a way to speed up a parrying counterswing according to how close your opponent's attack swing is to its mid-point or maybe it's 40% point or whatever turns out best. In practice I've found that even a quickly lauched counterswing passes between the duellists after the attack swing has already passed and a speed boost is needed to catch up to it. But it has to be the right speed boost because passing by too soon isn't any better than too late. Other stuff irrelevant to saber fighting that I've done is get rid of glowing force effects and spheres like the spawning sphere and duelling glow because they're un-movie like and I hate them. I'll consider making them optional instead of losing them entirely but I lean towards ditching them. (I'll keep the way that when you're in a duel everyone but your duel opponent is in shadow because it helps you concentrate on your opponent. In fact I've increased it a bit.) Only some of them are removed in the source code I'm using atm but it's not a big deal to do. I made an all Aurebesh HUD which was funny but hard to work with especially when you wanted to change your controls or read the scoreboard. Anyone for Huttese? Really I mean to put in a nice new font, plus a little Aurabesh for most ppl or ancient Sith letters for sith characters for effect. Lately I've been putting these things together into a package. Now I'm re-implementing my control system I hope even better than my test and at the same time implementing Forms swing animation differences. You can go to http://www.taddia.com/vruki/mod/ for some more details but some of that stuff's out of date. Sorry! I'll try to get it in shape soon but I think I'm too tired today. I'm pretty close to needing human testing but if I don't get some good progress done today I'll probably have to wait til next weekend to do it. This comment was edited by Vruki Salet on Feb 05 2006 09:52pm. |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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Could you give us an update on your progress Vruki? _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Vruki Salet - Student
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I understand that. I just hate to see it expressed that way. Anyway let's get back to the topic at hand. I wish anyone who is interested in discussing this mod get in touch with me. Some testing ought to be needed soon. I'm going to need someone on the server who can take direction better than a bot. Besides that I'd like to have a pool of ideas and convsersation about the topic. This comment was edited by Vruki Salet on Feb 04 2006 05:53pm. |
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R2D2 - Staff
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Quote:
Quote: if you can pull this off...........YOUR GOD! Please don't say such things. You can't imagine how offensive it is.  I don't believe Vasper meant for it to be offensive. He's quite an avid Star Wars fan and was expressing his excitement concerning the project. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Vruki Salet - Student
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Quote: if you can pull this off...........YOUR GOD! Please don't say such things. You can't imagine how offensive it is. |
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Vruki Salet - Student
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I have no idea about anyone else's project but I am still working on it, slowly though constantly. |
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Pink_Mintaka - Student
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Wow, this sounds like a Great idea! it hasnt been posted in in a while. is it still under construction? has it stopped completely? i realllllly hope you guys can pull this off, it sounds Awesome!! |
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O'Liin Onasi - Student 
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player skill,luck,and experience play a large roll in which style would win. _______________ Comments Owned- Darth Mike's100th. Stig's 300th. BDKawika's 400th. Grycen's 200th Ryu's 222th. Kenwan Obiobi/C'au Onasi's 150th. Tidus' 30th. Padawan of Tido. Master to Fox-AJ-Onasi, and Ryu. Brother of BDKawika, and Enoch/Vamushka. Founder of the Onasi Family. Friend to many. This comment was edited by O'Liin Onasi on Dec 12 2005 02:00am. |
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Oscar Eto'o-lene - Student 
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Whoa. If you guys manage to pull this off, it really is big news. Have any of you ever noticed the immensity of the saber forms (as measured by the size of the Wikipedia article)? Balance will also be a big, big issue. We're going to have 7 forms here, and with seemingly contradicting attributes. Consider Form II, Makashi, and Form III, Soresu. Makashi is supposedly the 'best' form against lightsabers, yet Soresu provides the 'best defense'. If these two forms were to clash, which one would prevail? However, due to its immensity, two people, no matter how skilled, are not enough. If there is anything I could help with, please enlist me. But I can't animate... I can do research and contribute ideas tho... P. S. : If a system where more than one form can be learnt, it would be best to allow 'students' to master one form more than the others. _______________ "The ultimate skill to learn is to hit your enemies so fast that they don't even know what hit them." This comment was edited by Oscar Eto'o-lene on Dec 06 2005 01:50pm. |
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R2D2 - Staff
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Whoa, this is a great idea. I don't have a lot of experience with modding in particular but I'm quick to learn. If this project gets going, I would love to contribute wherever I can _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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El Vee For - Student 
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How it goin so far? _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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bono_bob - Student |
PULL IT OFF!!! _______________ "Darkness is simply the absence of Light" "Is it not easier to snuff out the light completely than to make no shadow or darknes at all and create pure light?" "Is there a limit to Light?" - Jawa Jedi from a galaxy far far way of the one Lucas describes ( not in that galaxy ) |
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AvaloN - Student 
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my guess is that u are gettin in way over your head, but id like to see u prove me wrong. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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same here. It almost sounds easier to make a whole new game altogether. But if you can pull this off...........YOUR GOD! _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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O'Liin Onasi - Student 
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I cant mod and cant animate anything either but if you need sum 1 to research or beta test i will be more than glad to help you. _______________ Comments Owned- Darth Mike's100th. Stig's 300th. BDKawika's 400th. Grycen's 200th Ryu's 222th. Kenwan Obiobi/C'au Onasi's 150th. Tidus' 30th. Padawan of Tido. Master to Fox-AJ-Onasi, and Ryu. Brother of BDKawika, and Enoch/Vamushka. Founder of the Onasi Family. Friend to many. This comment was edited by O'Liin Onasi on Sep 01 2005 11:50pm. |
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DarthMike - Student 
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wow great idea go for it! _______________ "You can't get Windows on a Mac because the drivers are not compatible." --- Some dude from the Geek Squad "So if you have quad-core, you have four times the RAM, right?" --- Some guy at Best Buy |
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Vruki Salet - Student
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I intend to do this. I have started in a small way making animations, but it's harder then I thought and I need more practice before they're satisfactory. Still, I'm going for it. |
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Dash Starlight - Jedi Instructor 
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O M G !! If thats mod gonna be completed, Im pretty sure it'll rock big time. WOW! It just so happens that I dont have a shred of knowledge about modding, so I wont be any good Such a pity, as it'd be great to take part in this. Actually Im a bit of a fan of those Forms, I think it'd allow the JK players to come even closer to being 'real' jedi _______________ The name is Bond. James Bond. |
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Ecks - Student 
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Even if you just make one (preferably Soresu, hehehehe ), you'd have my respect, since I can't even animate a ball rolling lol. _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." |
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