The Jedi Academy- Would you join the Army?

Would you join the Army?

Jul 21 2005 11:09pm

Bail Hope of Belouve
- Student

I don't want to see any flaming. if this turns into a flamewar, I'll ask one of the JAC's pronto to close it down

In the light of the recent threats and attacks done by Al-Quaeda-Europa I want to ask you the following thing.

If your country is attacked, and your country decides to join in on the War Against Terrorism, but no draft is executed, will you join the army?
Yay or nay, why?

Or the second option:
After a couple of countries in the European Union have been attacked, the EU decides to fight Terrorism all over the globe.
Again, no draft.
Will you join the army? Yay or nay, why?

It was only this evening, in the lights of threats executed against Belgium, the capital of the European Union, that I had the same conversation with my girlfriend.

I would join. I would feel it is my absolute duty to do so.
Why?
Because I feel it is necessary to protect other people's freedom. The day you lose faith in society, is the day you lose it.
If I have to spend the remainder of my life fighting some terrorist or tiran, so that other people have the freedom of falling in love, getting married and raising thier own kids, then so help me God, I will gladly give my life for it.

All I ask is that when it is my time and I get hurt, is that I die for a cause that I completely support, for something I believe in.
I want the world to look back at all the deaths and be grateful. Not my death in particular, but all deaths, of all those who died to protect that which we hold dear, what we hold self-evident.

When I have died, I want to be able to say to myself "I died for a reason!"
That's all I ask.

What about you?

Again, no flaming. If someone decides something not to your liking, please, please please show respect for this choice and leave it be.
_______________
Visit the Belouve Family Website!
Quote:

I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion

Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here.

This post was edited by Bail Hope of Belouve on Jul 22 2005 10:57am.

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Aug 01 2005 10:30am

Ulic |retired|
- Student

I'm not saying the United Nations operate extremely effectively, because sadly, they don't. The point is, that we decided to prevent war by trying to talk first. I agree that it did look like the magic word weapons of mass destruction was applicable to Iraq, but where are they now? By ignoring the United Nations, and invading Iraq, the US, being the most powerfull nation, have given the right to any state now to violate souvereign states. That's what I meant by destroying the authority of the UN. What if Chad attacks Burkino Faso against the will of the UN security council, it would be very easy for them to reply: Why should we uphold the rules of the game when of all nations the US, co-founder of the UN and proud member, doesn't bother? Now that brings the UN in an awkward position, and that worries me.

I know how frustrating it is when emergency situations arise and the UN can't respond immediately because there needs to be talked first. I agree that the decision making is too slow, and it's frustrating that, although the UN should be able to have a taskforce, hospitals, and supplies at any location in the world within 48 hours, it takes months. It should change, reforms should be made to quicken the process, but untill it changes, we must cope with it because we need to follow our own rules.
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

Jul 31 2005 11:09pm

Buzz
- Student

Quote:

Of course entirely hypothetically speaking, should Iran be as you described, the United Nations would create a resolution trying to solve the problem. Should Iran refuse to, the United Nations could declare war and try to invade. This would indeed be a difficult job, since unlike Iraq, Iran has weapons of mass destruction, and it would lead to greater unrest but let's say it would happen. Even in this situation, my joining the army would be completely unnecessary. The United Nations can raise a huge taskforce. I would rather fight as a diplomat in the UN than in the army, and I'm sure I would be more effective.
Of course the US might've invaded Iran on their own, destroying the authority of the UN as is their habit.

About your view on the evolution of humanity, I agree that large parts of the middle east are at the level we were in the middle ages. That's ok, Europeans fought holy wars so many times, why shouldn't they. The problem is however that unlike the Europeans in the middle ages, the warlords in the Middle East have got internet, and bombs and biological weapons etc. But I'm sure they fully understand the effects of their actions. They're not stupid, but unenlightened.

Yes, destroying the authority of the UN. You know their authority to not to declare genocide so they don't have to help in places like rwanda or sudan. Their authority to pass resolutions against Iraq that if not followed would result action. Their only way of acting is for Hans Brix to write a letter saying how angry they are. I just love you clain of Iraq not having wmd, information which prior to the invasion was pointing in the other way. The UN can't raise jack squat than opposition to what needs to be done, or rape gangs.
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When you are going through Hell, keep going.
-Sir Winston Churchill.

Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it.

Jul 31 2005 08:37pm

Sauron-the-rasta-mon
- Student

Ecks, with the society I amn growing up in now, I'm not suprised to hear that alot of people say that. At this point in world history to be afraid of Death is foolish in my opinion. Now that I think of it, it always has been foolish, Death is natural, it is unescapable. Death and Birth are nearly the same thing. Birth being the end of your non-existance (I hope you understood that)while Death is the end of your existance. They are both ends, yet at the same time a begining. This is halfly understandable for each, Death is an End, Birth is a begining. Death brings non-existance as far as living humans know. Again come to think of it, Death is a continuation of the period before birth. Enough of my ranting though. Basically what I'm trying to say is that Death is just as natural Birth, and in turn should be accpeted just as much as Birth. Not so much embrace Death but respect it not fear it.
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Ω Allehelgens Død Helveds Rike Ω

Jul 31 2005 06:12pm

Jeramia Adept
- Student

Well "turning the other cheek" isnt really what i had in mind. I Guess im looking at it in a defensive stance you know, you can only evade so much right. I do support just the Soldiers that risk there lives for our freedoms, however i still think we should spend less time fighting and more time rebuilding and helping those in need, like homeless children.
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as far as my opinion goes, Idiots still run the world.
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and by thinking formyself i refere to having my own opinions about everything lol, and questioning authority,is by asking myself "are they even doing that right"
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The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is.

Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius

This comment was edited by Jeramia Adept on Jul 31 2005 06:14pm.

Jul 31 2005 09:13am

Ulic |retired|
- Student

Jul 30 2005 09:19pm

Bail Hope of Belouve
- Student

Quote:

I try to not only think of myself as a person belonging to a country but a world. Humanity. Mankind will never advance to where I think we are destine to go until we see each other as equals. Terrorists deny us that. They kill innocent children, men and women who do nothing more everyday other than go to work and try and feed their families. All they know is hate. They are so set in their sick ways that they call this hate, Love. Faith. Loyalty. To a religion. A supposedl peaceful religion.

Actually I personally believe that the problem lies with evolution of humanity. The Middle East is certainly not on the same level as we are, but they got bombs because we invented them.
I do not believe they have yet the correct attitude towards dealing with these bombs. They do not realize the effect the bombs actually have, I think.
One day they will, and it might stop. Until that time, we might as well shoot everyone we can that is a known terrorist. Any terrorist of the streets is one not blowing himself up the next day.

Quote:

No, I would not join the army - not because I don't support my country, but because I believe that whilst it is necessary to defend one's country, I do not see that killing people is "justified" by that fact. I do, however, accept that defense in that fashion is part of life.

Quote:

Meh...pacifism for the win.

But how would you defend your country then? Do you imagine a possibility of peace?
Please understand that I think I know what you mean, but I do not believe that "turning the other cheek" (as Christ tells us) would work in this case. Look what made September Eleventh possible. That wasn't Al-Quaeda's first terorrist attack, but America failed to respond to the first attempts on lives by terrorists, and this made Al-Quaeda bold enough to act as they did.
More pacifism could have the same effect.
Ever since Spain retreated their armies after a terrorist attack, the terorrists seem to think they can do the same for all the allies of America.

Quote:

i think the 'war' on 'terror' is a big joke. and i joined the army.

Now this is something I agree with.
Afghanistan was a good move, as we completely liberated this country from the Taliban, and this in its self was a move against terrorism, as we had even brought damage towards Al-Quaeda's leaders.
Iraq is a battle that shouldn't has taken so long. It's time we took our troops out of there, and went over to other countries that
1) harbor terorrists
2) surpress its people

But this is my belief, of course. Feel free to disagree

Quote:

If your death has had sense I can understand you want to die for something. But what if your death just has been totally useless? I do think the part of soldiers who died for absolutely no reason in war is pretty big, and they all leave behind family and friends.

Because I died in the war, the reason for my death would be the war. I would have died for other people's freedom, a sacrifice that I am willing to make. My life cannot (of course) guarantee that these people will be free, but it will be one step towards keeping them out of our homes.

Quote:

Exactly the same for me - I'd rather go to jail than join the army. I believe you'd be classed as a "consciensious objector" - and, at least in the UK, you can't be jailed for that.

You do know that the UK was very well known for shooting traitors and cowards during war-time?
They actually have the record on that.
During war time, I'd hide if I were in the UK ...
even if it is said that it's no longer allowed.
Who'll know right?

Quote:

Threatening though terrorism is, it isn't threatening our countries so bad that the army can't handle it. I would not join the army unless absolutely necessary, in case of an invasion for example. We already have armies, they don't need reinforcement by a draft. Besides, the terrorism won't disappear if there would be a draft. What are you going to attack? I think I could do much more outside the army than in it.

That's true, Ulic, very true.
But let's see my question a bit in a wider view.
Let's say we discover all terrorists came from Iran, and that there is more than substantial proof of this.
Let's say the government of Iran knew about it all along, and harbored them. In that case we'd have to fight an entire country and its own army, which is a struggle that will take a long time. Would you join then?

Quote:

too many idiots run the world for me to decide whats correct to do anymore.

Evil hasn't changed since yesterday, and one can make its own decisions regardless of leadership.

Quote:

So i think for myself and question authority.

I know you probably didn't mean it like that, but are you accusing us of not thinking for ourselves?
Again, I know it probably wasn't ment like that, I just want to make sure

Quote:

In a crisis situation, with Finland ending up in war with some other nation, all male citizens who are fit(meaning younger than 65 or so) will have to join the army in means of using their (usually) 6-month army knowledge in war..

Yeah same here.
The only problem I have with it is that they can shove you a gun into your hands and point you towards the enemy, "because you've had the training"

In my army, the obligated army-time has been recalled, until a time of war. I think that's too bad, because I was looking forward to it.
No, not the war, but learning how to do stuff, like even repairing things yourself.

Quote:

If i didnt have asthma i would be in the marines right now...tried to get in this year..that kept me out

You can't join the army if you have asthma ?
damn, I hope this isn't like it in this country.
Otherwise I don't stand a chance.

Quote:

If my country was being attacked head on, with another army on the doorstep I would join, but I would take some role that wouldn't force me to kill others.

I see. I don't think you can expect to the ability of choice at the time being, actually, but I could be wrong. Most knowlegdge I have from the army in war time tells me that you'll get a gun shoved in your hands as soon as the enemy is on your doorstep.
But I could be wrong, I have no idea actually.
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Visit the Belouve Family Website!
Quote:

Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here.

Jul 30 2005 04:05am

Plo Koon
- Student

Quote:

I know that I am doing absolute good - that is, for no apparent reason other than protection of citizens from evil.

Whereas protecting your entire country from evil

hehe, but you do have a point about your other...points

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Jul 30 2005 12:53am

Ecks
- Student

I've given it some thought, and I would much rather be a cop, because there, I know that I am doing absolute good - that is, for no apparent reason other than protection of citizens from evil.

As opposed to the army, where I have very little moral say, and I can be fighting for anything, even a cause I don't believe in. Whereas a cop would always be fighting for his cause - to serve and protect.
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"To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first."

Jul 30 2005 12:50am

Kueller
- Student

I would not join the army because I would feel I would be making no difference. You can't fight terrorists with army's, and you can't defend you country against terrorist attacks with the army. Only through expert intelligence, and most of the time it would fail. If my country was being attacked head on, with another army on the doorstep I would join, but I would take some role that wouldn't force me to kill others.

Again, I think the best way to fight terrorism is to take the source of the troubles away from your country. Make sure the people feel respected and free enough so they won't be tempted to join some murdering religious group. And make sure we also extend that respect to the Arab countries. I am not saying we should agree to demands from them, or otherwise follow orders from them, but make sure the Arab countries know we aren't out to eradicate all their beliefs and convert them to the (certainly not so perfect as our leaders let us believe) capitalistic way of the West.

I wish ppl stopped to let other ppl believe, with force, what they believe. The terrorists are doing it now, but we are doing it too, but more subtle, and with much more hidden force. I hope to see the day that the arrogant leaders of country's and religious groups would stop to argue about what is right and finally see that the only thing that is right is what you yourself believe.
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Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda!
-Taught Gradius all his laming skills

Jul 30 2005 12:15am

JP
- Academy Pimp

If i didnt have asthma i would be in the marines right now...tried to get in this year..that kept me out
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Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??"

This comment was edited by JP on Jul 30 2005 12:15am.

Jul 29 2005 04:07pm

Ataris
- Milwaukees Finest

In Finland the system works so that every male citizen of age 18 HAS to join the army and train for a minimum of 6-12 months, and that way learn to defend your country if neccessary..
Some people go there to work as well, so you can basicly stay there for the rest of your life, teaching new privates the stuff you've learnded perhaps decades earlier yourself..

In a crisis situation, with Finland ending up in war with some other nation, all male citizens who are fit(meaning younger than 65 or so) will have to join the army in means of using their (usually) 6-month army knowledge in war..

In my opinion this is a good thing. Even if it's something that the Finnish society demands you to do, even if you wouldn't want it, it still builds character, discipline, and is useful when applying for a job as some leading person in most companies..

I would join the army, even if it wouldn't be obligatory..

Peace..

PS. I wrote this post with only just seeing a glimpse of the stuff that the last few persons wrote, and decided to remind people what the original question was, I didn't bother to read any further down the page.. I'm just trying to stop what could become something called 'flaming'..

Jul 29 2005 03:05pm

Ecks
- Student

Quote:

I don't fear death.

You'd be surprised how many people say that...

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"To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first."

Jul 29 2005 02:24pm

Jeramia Adept
- Student

nope, im a pacifist, and too many idiots run the world for me to decide whats correct to do anymore. So i think for myself and question authority.
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The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is.

Padawan Brother to Darth Sirius

Jul 27 2005 08:26pm

Sauron-the-rasta-mon
- Student

I would join for the adventure, and the risks don't bother me, I don't fear death. Besides you get cool equipment adn normally your in good health and your physically fit. Though I hear the food aint so great.
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Ω Allehelgens Død Helveds Rike Ω

Jul 27 2005 05:24pm

Ulic |retired|
- Student

Jul 27 2005 05:04pm

Thomasooo
- Student

Meh...pacifism for the win.
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In the navy and LOVING it!

Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!

Jul 27 2005 02:56pm

Ecks
- Student

If it came down to fighting for a JUST cause that I believed in, then yes. But nowadays, there are so few "just" causes, that I'll probably never even join the militia.

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"To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first."

Jul 27 2005 02:35pm

JamesF1
- Student

Quote:

Out of religious conviction, I would not join or support any army in any way, not even when drafted.

so you would go the army and sit on your butt?
Not making fun of you, just want to make sure I get what you mean.

Aren't you afraid for the treasonal penalties then? I think I would be.
They can't force me to kill someone I think, but being labeled as "traitor" is bad enough I think.

I would not go to the army, or support it in any way.

As for treasonal penalties, I'd take them for granted. And yes, that DOES mean I would serve jail time or accept any other penalties that would be the consequence of refusing.

Exactly the same for me - I'd rather go to jail than join the army. I believe you'd be classed as a "consciensious objector" - and, at least in the UK, you can't be jailed for that.
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Website

Jul 27 2005 01:38pm

Phantom
- Student

Well first off If I were old enought to, I would join but as a reserve. This why I am going to help my country when they need it, I can go on with my daily life, and you get benefits.
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-Phantom
Ex-Master to Threat.
Proud owner of Sazabi's 1500th comment! And Threats 50th comment
"Insanity: a perfect rational adjustment to an insane world"

Jul 27 2005 01:04pm

Aron
- Retired

Quote:

Out of religious conviction, I would not join or support any army in any way, not even when drafted.

Jul 27 2005 11:12am

Bail Hope of Belouve
- Student

Quote:

Out of religious conviction, I would not join or support any army in any way, not even when drafted.

Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here.

Jul 27 2005 02:11am

Demo Strike
- Student

If we were attacked front on yes, otherwise no.

Jul 27 2005 01:06am

Aron
- Retired

Out of religious conviction, I would not join or support any army in any way, not even when drafted.

Jul 26 2005 04:20pm

..PJ..
- Student

After the attacks on london, i've been thinking about it.
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JK2 pwnz0rs JK3.

Jul 23 2005 12:57pm

SaZ
- Student

i would join only if bad guys start to attack MY country. ofcourse if its massive threat... well i should help

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playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Zï¿½diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana

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