| Who is the Best Saberist in History ? | |
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Ian Jandos - Student  |
I suppose there is not a clear cut answer to this. However, I'd like to see what opinions are out there. Obi-Wan and Anakin seemed to be an equal match, perhaps Anakin on flat ground might be better...but considering he lost his cool, perhaps that would happen in a different scenario as well. Dooku, a viable contender, but if Anakin could beat him, then he obviously doesn't rank at the top. Additionally, Palpatine, who diced several Jedi quickly could not dispatch Windu, even with force aiding him. Yoda, who held his own with Palpatine and Dooku did not demonstrate onscreen at least, the ability to land any blows. Whereas Windu was able to win his duel w/Palpatine. Then there are wild cards such as Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, and Luke Skywalker. Maul obviously was very talented, but did not prove he could overpower a youthful Obi-Wan with his saber alone. I wouldn't necessarily give Obi-Wan the advantage, but that brings up enough doubt for me to rank Maul out of contention. Qui-Gon-Jinn, obviously since he died, that kind of takes him down a notch as well. Luke, I would consider to be in the same boat as his father, with the exception that his lack of formal training would probably give him less rank. Sure he bested his father, but that victory came over a simply less capable saberist due to Vader's reliance of robotic limbs. Luke's "win" only came through rage more than say his control. Having said all of that, my vote is for Mace Windu. A solid, polished saberist, who should have been the one that ended the Sith. -Ian _______________ Member #7625 | Since 7.6.04 The Archives This post was edited by Ian Jandos on Jul 22 2005 10:13pm. |
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Who is the Best Saberist in History?
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Nuebus - Student 
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Quote: I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Obi-Wan mentioned to Anakin during Episode II something equivalent to your lightsaber skills are nothing compared to Master Yoda's. he said that during the chase of Zam Wessel, and that was pretty much true, but does not account for Mace Windu/Palpatine or DOoku. _______________ Sanity is for the weak -Let the madness consume you... I'ma moron, i'm the master of morons, i even got a club of morons... so how do u beat me at bein a moron?... and no, not by being u. Ex-Padawan of Chaos~ |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Obi-Wan mentioned to Anakin during Episode II something equivalent to your lightsaber skills are nothing compared to Master Yoda's. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Nuebus - Student
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dude... check ur info, Sidious used a different style, which i believed was Ataru. anyway Mace used a style that was the completion of Juyo, a form he alone mastered and completed, a form which had not been completed for several millenia. so the definate best saberrist would definately be Mace. oh by the way the forms artent not lvls, they are called Form 1 (shii -Cho), Form 2 (Makashi) etc. Juyo was Form 7. mmm.. and teh factor about Dooku's age i'd agree that he was getting old. Dooku was no so corrupted by the Dark Side to start to rot and become empowered in its thrall. Palpatine was. Yoda's species allowed him to go on like that at 900 years old. and Anakin... anakin was young and strong he battered Dooku down because Dooku was surprised when he realised that he had 2 stop toying with Anakin too late. _______________ Sanity is for the weak -Let the madness consume you... I'ma moron, i'm the master of morons, i even got a club of morons... so how do u beat me at bein a moron?... and no, not by being u. Ex-Padawan of Chaos~ This comment was edited by Nuebus on Jul 24 2005 12:51am. |
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Lucky Mintaka - Ex-Student 
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The best saberist would either have been Mace or Sidious Mace knew Vapaad and something else and was the only jedi ever to accomplish that without falling to the dark side. Sidious knew Vapaad. These were lvl.. 5 ability i think? _______________ Vasper Adept-1600 Comment Raydoe-150 comment Pink -Floyd 425 comment |
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Ecks - Student 
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I agree. I believe barring Anakin, as we know, Yoda had the highest midi-chlorian count ever. The only Jedi who came before Yoda that can equal him in sheer Force ability would be Revan... and Revan also used the Dark Side of the Force. _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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His ability to absorb and deflect Force Lightning should tell ya that. I would really Like to read some books on Yoda and how he's become so powerful a Jedi Over 900 years. The Sith he's faced. That would be an amazing story. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Ecks - Student
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Well, the article in point on Wikipedia that we're talking about is not even an official one, so caution is thrown to the winds anyway  And yes, Yoda is more powerful than Palpatine, at least in terms of dueling and Force Mastery. _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." |
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Thomasooo - Student 
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Quote: He [Palpatine] owned almost everyone in the hole saga even Yoda couldn't beat him. I think Yoda could've beat him. Palptine knew that he was about to lose the lightsaber duel, so he resorted to the usage of Force to disarm Yoda (as we all know). And regarding the Wikipedia subject: Don't believe that everything you read there is 100 % correct! Keep in mind that anyone can edit it to their liking. _______________ In the navy and LOVING it! 
Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!
This comment was edited by Thomasooo on Jul 23 2005 08:40pm. |
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Ecks - Student
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Quote: EVERYONE uses force to guide their attacks so you can automaticaly forget this point age- well its only counts fault that he was a bad stundent in his young days ^^ luke did not fall to the dark side. i think the falling to the dark side process is when someone complets this process. yes luke was angered but managed to control himself. in his youngster days anakin couldnt control his anger so he fallen to the darkside. (replace anger with something else equally bad lol) Yes, everyone uses the Force to guide their attacks... I think that was my point...?  And I never said Luke fell to the dark side. I said he could only defeat Vader by using it. Even against an aging robot Luke had to resort to anger to batter him down. It was not the Count's fault that he was a bad student. Count is an uber duelist, and was very good at using the Force in his duels. It's just that his saber style relied more on physical talent rather than Yoda or Palpatine, who use Ataru, and use the Force to empower themselves to allow them to fight with the acrobatics required for Form IV. Again, check Wikipedia. I edited the article myself.  _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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I was looking on info on form seven and found most of it to be the same, even on star wars sites. This is a quote I took from Stratics.com Quote: Form VII Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate descipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Form VII is still under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art. Form VII master Mace Windu fights alongside Form III practitioner Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Battle of Geonosis. This spiritually dangerous regimen cuts perilously close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability. Mace Windu is one of the only current practitioners of Form VII. Jedi Masters Mace Windu and Sora Bulq developed this style together. It is also known as Vaapad. This form is rather dangerous, when used by untrained and unfocussed minds. The deep well of emotions can lead to the release of anger. And trigger temptations towards the Dark Side. Form VII I think is really it's own form now. Though it is still in development. When it comes to age playing a difference. I don't think it reallydoes with Jedi. Theres a strange circle of defeats in Star Wars. But the same is true on our servers. Say you can't beat GUY1, but you can beat GUY2. GUY1 can't beat GUY2but can beat you. It's not that you instantly lose your ability. It's just you are better at defeating certain styles. Just as Count Dooku can defeat Obi-Wan's defensive style, while Anakins offensive style drives Dooku into a defensive postion. Anakin simply wasn't ready to fight a Sith Lord 1 on 1 in Episode II. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Jul 23 2005 06:53pm. |
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SaZ - Student 
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EVERYONE uses force to guide their attacks so you can automaticaly forget this point age- well its only counts fault that he was a bad stundent in his young days ^^ luke did not fall to the dark side. i think the falling to the dark side process is when someone complets this process. yes luke was angered but managed to control himself. in his youngster days anakin couldnt control his anger so he fallen to the darkside. (replace anger with something else equally bad lol) _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Jul 23 2005 06:15pm. |
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Ecks - Student 
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Some replies to Sazabi: Age has a lot to do. Dooku's didn't have the Force mastery of Yoda and Palps, so his old body was not sufficient enough to stand against the sheer kinetic power of Anakin. Had Dooku been younger, he may have been able to withstand Anakin's burst of anger. Mace Windu still uses the Force to guide his attacks. He actually uses the dark side energies of his opponent against them, he 'absorbs' there energies, and focuses it back in through Vaapad. Juyo is not Vaapad. Vaapad completes Juyo. Check Wikipedia for that. And Luke never did defeat Vader. All he did was resort to the dark side. You said so yourself, death is not the only defeat. Well Luke used the Dark Side to beat back Vader, thereby failing his own resolve not to fall to the Dark Side. Yes, he redeemed himself, but that does not hide the fact that Luke resorted to the Dark Side to defeat Vader, rather than control. _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." |
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SaZ - Student
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some comments about Ecks post: mace windu used emotions to power his attacks (see wikipedia or something like that for proof). i think vaapad is subform of Juyo... not vice versa age has nothing to do about powerfullness why? check palpatines and yodas age luke did not defeat vader? lies, coz defeat doesnt mean death for the loser. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Ecks - Student
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Quote: it depends on the 'rules'. in a saber duel with absolutely no force advantage would definately b Mace Windu's due 2 his mastery of Juyo and its expansion Vaapad. i doubt even Tulak Horrd, being a sith lord and master saberist could take Windu on because he'd b usin one of the other forms most likely Makashi due 2 his timeline of existence. in a force/saber duel i'd put my money on Yoda, with his flexible use of Shien, capable of mixing force in the oddest of situations. in a full force pummel money's on palp simply cause he pwns every1 else the above is the timeline which Ian's question is based. In KOTOR and b4(aka Old Republic) timeline i'd say Tulak Horrd would b the best saberist of the time. force/saber i'd put my money on freedon nadd because of his ... unusual species which would basicly pummel a wookie 2 the ground with a fist, in force even kreia admits he was strong in it. all force then i'd say that i have no bloomin idea, probably Revan or the Exile. ...*silence except for the rustling of paper* STAR WARS NERDS PWNZ0R J00Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yoda uses Ataru And I would still say Yoda as the best duelist ever. So what if he hasn't landed a hit? That's because all his opponents, i.e. Palpatine and Dooku, had to resort to cheap tactics to escape from Yoda's onslaught of saber skills. I'm sure even Windu uses the Force to empower himself when using Vaapad (not Juyo, Juyo is a sub-form of Vaapad) Dooku, while perhaps the best overall duelist, is too damn old. The only reason Anakin beat him is because Anakin was just physically stronger and faster than Dooku. If Dooku was younger, he would've taken apart Anakin. Luke uses Form V style, same as Anakin. If we are only counting movies, then Luke is nowhere near the best. He could not defeat Vader without turning to the darkside. And Obi-Wan. No doubt he is not the most athletic or skilled duelist, but he is the smartest. I wouldn't hesitate to put my money on him if he was dueling. Finally, if games and EU count, then Revan or Tulak Hord, yes, would be viable contenders. Revan may not have proven himself, but his cunning and intelligence, like Obi-Wan, would have been an incredible asset. And of course, Tulak. He never proved himself, but again, if the game says he is good, we have no choice but to believe it. _______________ "To become a greater man, you must be a lesser one first." This comment was edited by Ecks on Jul 23 2005 03:09pm. |
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Nuebus - Student
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it depends on the 'rules'. in a saber duel with absolutely no force advantage would definately b Mace Windu's due 2 his mastery of Juyo and its expansion Vaapad. i doubt even Tulak Horrd, being a sith lord and master saberist could take Windu on because he'd b usin one of the other forms most likely Makashi due 2 his timeline of existence. in a force/saber duel i'd put my money on Yoda, with his flexible use of Shien, capable of mixing force in the oddest of situations. in a full force pummel money's on palp simply cause he pwns every1 else the above is the timeline which Ian's question is based. In KOTOR and b4(aka Old Republic) timeline i'd say Tulak Horrd would b the best saberist of the time. force/saber i'd put my money on freedon nadd because of his ... unusual species which would basicly pummel a wookie 2 the ground with a fist, in force even kreia admits he was strong in it. all force then i'd say that i have no bloomin idea, probably Revan or the Exile. ...*silence except for the rustling of paper* STAR WARS NERDS PWNZ0R J00Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _______________ Sanity is for the weak -Let the madness consume you... I'ma moron, i'm the master of morons, i even got a club of morons... so how do u beat me at bein a moron?... and no, not by being u. Ex-Padawan of Chaos~ |
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SaZ - Student 
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i think you should throw up maul or countdooku and put luke in whos the best saberist in history? nobody knows. we dont have history book of all events of all star wars history. i think we should talk about specific period like for example period in the movies i cant really choose Palpatine - was very powerful but powerhungryness,anger etc always blinds dark jedi so they cant show their true skill Mace - is cool i like his slow precise style he was outnumbered in mace vs palp fight so that fight doesnt count too much Luke - he just pwnz anakin - noob. i hate him obi - i dont like him too much but he is very skilled. the only things he need is better resistance to force powers like someone said there is no best saberist - its only a matter of style. like i like mace style and someone likes maul style. everyone can pwn everyone _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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AvaloN - Student 
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I agree, Yoda is the best saberist, with Mace coming in second (close). Palpy is good, but more of a force spammer. I also think we shouldnt underestimate Darth Maul. Sure he lost to Obi, but that was his own cocky mistake. He pwned Qui-Gon will relative ease, and had Obi right he wanted him (hanging on the edge of that pit). He was foolish enough not to just finish Obi tho. |
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angel - Student 
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Quote: If we are going off of any timeline I believe it was Sith Lord Freedon Nadd. It was said in the KOTOR2, that lightsaber abilities of that time wer childs play compared to his ability. You have to remember that These Sith Lords and Older Jedi were in a time when Saber vs Saber fighting was VERY common. Back when the Oder still taught Jedi Form II (advanced saber vs. saber style). hell yeah im with you vasper If I had to choose a more current Jedi......Yoda's Lightsaber skills impress me the most. _______________ my honor is my life |
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Buzz - Student 
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Tulak Horrd _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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I think it's a fairly even match between Yoda and Windu, but my vote's going to Mace, for his performance in the Arena. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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If we are going off of any timeline I believe it was Sith Lord Freedon Nadd. It was said in the KOTOR2, that lightsaber abilities of that time wer childs play compared to his ability. You have to remember that These Sith Lords and Older Jedi were in a time when Saber vs Saber fighting was VERY common. Back when the Oder still taught Jedi Form II (advanced saber vs. saber style). If I had to choose a more current Jedi......Yoda's Lightsaber skills impress me the most. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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DarthMike - Student 
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Quote: The problem with questions like this is everybody loses kind of randomly. Anakin loses to Dooku, Anakin beats Dooku. Obi-Wan loses to Dooku twice but beats Anakin. Just like in any duel you can beat a better saberist once in awhile. Hey look at me I win a few but I'm terrible. How good would Luke be if he had formal training? We'll never know. It would just come down to who's style you like. Anikan beats dooku second time cuz he gets better. Plus dooku didnt beat obi wan with his saber. Obi got a position advantage. Besides, none of them are even close. _______________ "You can't get Windows on a Mac because the drivers are not compatible." --- Some dude from the Geek Squad "So if you have quad-core, you have four times the RAM, right?" --- Some guy at Best Buy |
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Trooper! - Student 
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The problem with questions like this is everybody loses kind of randomly. Anakin loses to Dooku, Anakin beats Dooku. Obi-Wan loses to Dooku twice but beats Anakin. Just like in any duel you can beat a better saberist once in awhile. Hey look at me I win a few but I'm terrible. How good would Luke be if he had formal training? We'll never know. It would just come down to who's style you like. _______________ Honor those better than you would yourself. |
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DarthMike - Student
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Quote: We could see Palpatine was holding back vs Mace why? He gets owned in it, but if we watched the Yoda vs Palpatine fight we see he is much better. Maul was suprised by Obi cause he didn't watch Qui Gon's saber. Count Dooku one of the most powerful Sithlords(yup) He could beat Obi and Anakin(Obi was a Jedi Knight in Episode 2) and he gets owned by Dooku. Obi is a Padawan in Episode 1 and beats Maul.In Episode 3 Dooku was toying with Anakin he wasn't thinking that Anakin really become that powerful.(Watch Dooku's face when he says somthing like: I can feel your anger.. He is laughing) Obi gets owned again in Episode 3 against Dooku(and like someone once said on the forums) "Obi gets pushed like some dummy" Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi only his lack of training makes him weak and look like some newb. Anakin indeed strong but when he falls in the lava he gets weaker and slower. So my vote has to go for Palpy. He owned almost everyone in the hole saga even Yoda couldn't beat him. The only diff. in yoda/palp and mace/palp was that palpatine force spammed yoda. Since this is a question of the best saberist, id say yoda is better than palps. Its a competition between yoda and mace, at least if your only counting the movie timeline. Im voting for mace since yoda's so ugly though. _______________ "You can't get Windows on a Mac because the drivers are not compatible." --- Some dude from the Geek Squad "So if you have quad-core, you have four times the RAM, right?" --- Some guy at Best Buy This comment was edited by DarthMike on Jul 23 2005 01:39am. |
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Tyrant - Ex-Student 
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We could see Palpatine was holding back vs Mace why? He gets owned in it, but if we watched the Yoda vs Palpatine fight we see he is much better. Maul was suprised by Obi cause he didn't watch Qui Gon's saber. Count Dooku one of the most powerful Sithlords(yup) He could beat Obi and Anakin(Obi was a Jedi Knight in Episode 2) and he gets owned by Dooku. Obi is a Padawan in Episode 1 and beats Maul.In Episode 3 Dooku was toying with Anakin he wasn't thinking that Anakin really become that powerful.(Watch Dooku's face when he says somthing like: I can feel your anger.. He is laughing) Obi gets owned again in Episode 3 against Dooku(and like someone once said on the forums) "Obi gets pushed like some dummy" Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi only his lack of training makes him weak and look like some newb. Anakin indeed strong but when he falls in the lava he gets weaker and slower. So my vote has to go for Palpy. He owned almost everyone in the hole saga even Yoda couldn't beat him. This comment was edited by Tyrant on Jul 22 2005 10:25pm. |
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