| Removal of JAS sub-ranks | |
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.Templar. - ex-Student  |
Ok guys, I've finally gotten up the courage to make this post, whether it gets me kicked from the JA or not.
I respect the JAT/JAC decision on removing the JAS sub ranks, but I personally, and several other members of the academy think it was a bad idea - and here is why, ALSO - guys, if you agree with me, please post and add what you want so I'm not alone on this - 90% of the students that join the JA dont know how to perform a DFA or YDFA or lunge or any of the likes, nor do they know what they are called, I was like that when I joined, now granted I could dfa and ydfa and lunge n such, but I knew ZILCH about doing combos, the ONLY thing that made me stay in the JA instead of just going to another random FFA server - Was the fact that you had ranks, goals for me to achieve, and to measure my progress by, and I knew if I stuck with it, I'd increase my game, which I did, if it had been like the JA is now, where you had to sign up for classes and meet appointments not knowing what to expect, I would have said forget this and removed the website from my fav's list, but the ranks kept me, and I know I'm not the only one who experienced that,I learned everything I know not from the few classes I've attended, but from the other students and people in the academy, and myself of course, and the only thing that got me headed in the right direction was the Jman trial, which taught me how combos worked, how to make them, how to extend them, limits, and all that good stuff, and I went on from there, now I understand even with the new change - there are still students to teach other students the stuff, but if someone had asked me if I wanted to go over combos with them, I would have been dumbfounded, and more than likely said no, thinking it was something too difficult, so yet again, I have to re emphasize how important the learner trials are, they teach you the basis of all saber combat in the game, and with preset goals to achieve, it makes it easy to learn it all. In a way, the system as it is now "join any class you want, learn what you want, dont learn what you dont, have fun" is basically the same thing as having children, and saying "Well kids, you can study science if you want, or math.. hell, dont even go to school if you dont want to, just have fun with your life!", in the longrun, they realize how much help it actually was, and that in the longrun it was actually enjoyable - And that, everyone, is why I think ranks should not have been removed, they were the SOLE thing that seperated the JA from being just-another-clan-run FFA server with rules - With that last statement I'll end this post, I hope mabye some others will post and we can get the JA back to the way it was. |
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| Comments |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Hmm maybe we can have pop quizzes in class... _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Well the ones that aren't going to behave in class and on servers need to learn a simple message. You really shouldn't be rewarded because what you are doing is right, which is what these people were doing with the ranks and points. You will be punished for doing what is wrong though. It should never be "be good or else you won't get a point" Its "be good or else you won't be around here. I never told you you should leave, I understood what you meant in your first post and I stand by what I said. There really doesn't need to be any motivation other than your own to want to learn to play a game better. I mean think about all the other games you play. Is there any other group giving you a set path to gauge how you are doing in the game? If your motivation to play a game is so you can get better at the game you seem really backwards to me. That doesn't sound fun to me. That sounds like work. My motivation is to learn so I can get better at playing the game. I don't need someone else telling me what constitutes improvement in my skills. I can gauge that on my own. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Acura Belouve - Student 
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Okay maybe ppl didnt understand wt i wanted to say the first time. Im staying here no matter wt this is the only reason i got JO is to learn at the academy. I dotn play pub i cant even connect to to PUb servers lol. As for ranks yeah sure i enjoyed having it but its just a title and shoudnt be a race. AS for newcomers we should give some sort of trial to keep them motivated and keep them intersted into learn more and more as they stay longer. Im just waiting for soem new classes that all with that i can go to the next level of play. So i have no problem with ranks gone im just worried about the people that learn maybe leave fast and the people that think that since there are no more points and trials they no longer need to to behave in classes and on servers. _______________ |
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Buzz - Student
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Your emphasis really seemed to be on ranks to me. Did you even read my posts? I suggested methods for trials without trials. Just list what you should know to consider yourself a begginning student, intermediate student, and advanced student. I mean the classes already have skill levels. All you need to do is list the moves like they were listed in the trials. You don't need the trials though. Without trials it frees up the JAT's for other things. I mean if you really want to you can ask a JAT if you are doing a move correctly. But you really don't need trials since anyone that knows what a move looks like can tell you if you did it right. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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.Templar. - Ex-Student 
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Buzz, if you notice, I'm making my emphases not on rank's, but on trials, I personally dont care if we have ranks or not, but we need some way to give the newcomers the trials that were given for learner and jman ranks previously. |
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Buzz - Student
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Yeah, you guys my words weren't directed at Metroid. They were in response to his comment about people just leaving after they learn some things since there's no rank to keep them around. That's just not true in all cases. There are always going to be people who come here to learn and go off and leave. That's fine, that's actually what the academy is for. To help you learn to play the game better on public servers. As for the end of my post. I'm tired of listening people to complain about not having the ranks. They're gone and what they were meant to accomplish can be done using different methods. So if all you cared about was what rank you are, you can leave because obviously this is no longer the place for you. But if you actually cared about what the ranks said that you could do, then stay and wait and see if something else comes around that will give you your benchmarks without creating a hierarchy that DJ didn't really like. Being just a student now doesn't mean that you know less or more now that you aren't a j-man or initiate. So its not like you suddenly lost some skills when that j-man rank was removed from under your name. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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well, usually I dont show them the moves, I duel them and tell them to interrupt me when I do a move they dont know. Its more interesting, thus, and they see and learn how and when (or when not) to apply that move.
never experienced anyone that wanted to own using rDFAs on public's. but I guess these are rather young folks that dont get the idea. *sigh* _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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MINDofSIN - Student 
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"When they learn a few things they leave. WHAT?! I've been here since June or May. I've learned a lot. I haven't left. It was never about rank for me. It shouldn't be about rank. There are other ways to motivate people to come and learn and stay than just saying oh if you learn this you get a shiny new rank. You want your rank go join a clan. If you're not happy with not having ranks you can leave. I don't think many people are going to miss you."
I taught a guy how to rdfa today. He said "Thanks Mindofsin, I'm going to a server now". I was shocked.  _______________ Jedi Academy Holocron http://jaholocron.ryanmh.com/ Why should our government send our soldiers to foreign soil to protect freedom of speech, when our freedom of speech is being taking away everyday by the same government. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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indeed. that was not jedi-ish at all.
you're bigger then that.  _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Mistral - Ex-Student 
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Way to go Buzz. You really know how to make a guy feel welcome.
Ignore him MetroidBlade, I'd miss you  . |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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C'mon Java, give him a Wookie Hug. A stormtrooper hug just isn't the same.
_______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Aw, come on Buzz, tell us how you really feel! You're holding back on us. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Battlin' Billy - Student
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Be nice Buzz.
_______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Buzz - Student
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When they learn a few things they leave. WHAT?! I've been here since June or May. I've learned a lot. I haven't left. It was never about rank for me. It shouldn't be about rank. There are other ways to motivate people to come and learn and stay than just saying oh if you learn this you get a shiny new rank. You want your rank go join a clan. If you're not happy with not having ranks you can leave. I don't think many people are going to miss you. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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"When soldiers have been baptized in the fire of a battle-field, they have all one rank in my eyes." -- Napoleon
I always liked that quote. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Acura Belouve - Student 
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I agree i even ptu a post when it was first announced but everyoen was cool with it in the long term its going to be chaos in the academy. People wotn worry about anything they dont need poitns or anything no motivation no passion there just learn a few thigns a leave the academy..That wt i think will happen. _______________ |
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.Templar. - Ex-Student
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Whats up Chainer? You got my back |
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.Templar. - Ex-Student 
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I only want the ranks back in the intrest of new students, I'm always posting adds for the JA at www.jediknightii.net forums, not just for people who dont know how to do a DFA, but for people who think they are hot sh** too.
My point is this - No matter what you say or do, its a fact that the learner and jman rank's helped more people then they hurt. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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well, despite all the efforts, we shall face RL (TM). sadly that most ppl just dont care about others, they walk blindly through a colorful world, yet do not miss the possibility to pick on others and boast around their superiority. *sigh*
These creeps, although I think we dont have lots of these peeps in here, are the cause for the system to have failed. as always, just my thoughts. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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Right on buzz I'll support your rank
Think I'll have [ULODHD] which is Uber l337 Owning Duelist Haxor D00d _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Master Lew - Student 
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Let's have a brick point system. Here, have a brick. _______________ Brick Assassin for Hire Here, have a brick! 
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Buzz - Student
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See I think all of this can be solved without ranks. What the ranks started to do was separate the classes saying that this class is for learners, this class is for journeymen, this class is for more advanced journeymen with a lot of class points. Like I've said before this can be solved with some more structure. Just put something on the FAQ that says you can consider yourself a beginner if you only know this list of moves. You can consider yourself an intermediate if you also know these moves. You can can call yourself an advanced student if you know how to do these things. I mean the classes already list the skill level of who it is reccomended for. So then everyone can try and reach for that next level of skill that some people have said the ranks motivated in them. It also eliminates the heirarchy that DJ didn't really like. And its easier on the JAT's because they aren't spending a half hour giving out points and trialing people since if you want to judge your skill just go look at the FAQ page and see which moves you can do. And if you want your rank just go join a clan or make up your own. I think I'll start using [GSDOTG]which stands for Grand Supreme Dueler Of The Galaxy. That's now my rank so it must mean I've got a lot of experience and deserve respect _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Jake Kainite - Student 
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Bout the no pride thing, I think people have more pride now when they acheive something new. When the points were about it was "wicked now I've learned this I can pass the trial" whereas now its more sort of "wicked now I've learned this, I can show other people and add it to my dueling arsenal to improve my skills"
I think getting rid of points was without a doubt a good idea. The ranks though I'm still undecided. Don't want people being all egotistical (ooooh big word, 5 points to me)and only worried bout who is what rank and how they can get to the next one. But some sort of level of skill might be needed so that training can be done constructively. For the advanced players, fair enough, if you don't want to go to a beginners class then you won't. But for the newer students who end up in a more advanced class without learning the basics first are kinda thrown in at the deep end, and advanced students that did want to attend can't because theres no space left. In an ideal world the points and ranks would of worked perfectly, but this isn't a perfect world and some people are in it for more than the knowledge (what they thought they would gain by getting to top rank eludes me, they think they could get away with not fulfilling the task ?) The way I see it, the way it is now seems to be the best thing, simple, uncomplicated and hassle free. _______________ Apprenctice of Jedi Master Ascari (deceased) Descended from a line of great Jedi Will argue any point of view from any side
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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well, I think the folks in here discussing the problem aint the folks that _caused_ either the points/ranks system, or the removal of this very system.
To my mind, A rank should reflect one's skills, thus, the trials have to be hard. the old ranks were ok for me, but it seemed that the points system was just awkward. here's how I'd have done it with the points: 1.) depending on performance/behaviour in class more or less points are given to the JAS. 2.) a JAS doesnt know about his amount of points, in the best case, a JAS doesnt even know there are points 3.) there is a certain amount of points that one _should_ have for a trial. 4.) JATs, JAKs whatever can and should give points for good skills, nice acting on the servers or any other efforts within the JA 5.) otherwise trials can be performed with a nomination/recommendation thats my thoughts. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Chainer - Ex-Student 
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"You'll have people constantly trying to get the JAT's to give them a trial because they think they are ready for it. That's the reason they brought in the points system, the JAT's were getting pounded with requests for trials and had to fail many because they weren't ready"
Failing is a part of learning Buzz the jats i think should have been able to cope with this in a miture way ( not saying they didnt) i thought trials at classes only was great and every class was full on the last month or so. Failing a trial isnt the end of the world but i think it helped many students figure out they needed more practice and learned for THEMSELVES a pace at wich they should take trials and learned from this and continuied to take the classes to pass this time round. I dont think what the jats/jacs did was wrong but i think it was a off descision if a system doesnt work we should refine best we can not do away with it. Just my 2 cents |
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