| Broda Dagre's News Post (here to stop cluttering news page | |
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Loaf - ex-Student  |
Here is a message from Broda Dagre:
Dear Jedi Academy Students, Council members, Trainers, Knights: In December I joined the Jedi Academy. I joined for several reasons, not the least of these being that, when it came to playing JKII online, I sucked. I was like most n00bs out there. I swung, I hacked, I got fragged…a lot! But more importantly to me was the fact that I wanted a place to learn the finer points to the game and, even more importantly, I sought a community. An online community that was conducive to learning the skills of JKII without laming. A place where every other word wasn’t “f*** that” or “you” or “your mom” or “your dog” or whatever. And I truly found that community right here in the JA. When I first joined, I was hesitant about certain things, namely, the points issue. I thought that it was weird and kind of distracting from the purpose of learning. But I stuck it out and figured I’d give it a shot. Time went on. I attended classes. Was usually pretty quiet and desired to learn all that I could while having a good time as well; this is a game after all, not real life. *shock grips the masses* I made Journeyman last month thanks to hard training, attending classes, dueling often, and pestering the hell outta Shannon one day! = ) I was proud. I felt like I had accomplished something within this really cool community. Like I had really achieved something cool. (Reasonably speaking of course…still…a game). All the while I still didn’t like the points. So, at that point I decided that I didn’t care anymore about the points. I would attend classes and do the whole thing but I really wanted to do the whole community thing more. Then, the powers-that-be decided to change the structure that had evolved within the academy. Now let me stop right here and include, once again, that I never liked the points. I agree with mostly everyone that the points motivated certain individuals to concentrate more on the accumulation of points than building viable Jedi skills. However, the removal of the rank structure, in my opinion and I believe in many other’s, was a step too far taken. Now, I may be in error, but it is my understanding nevertheless that the point system and the student ranking structure were created at the same time or close to. This is where I believe the assumption was made that since the point system was being abused (as it was doomed to be from the outset) that the rank structure was flawed as well. I believe that this assumption and the hasty removal of the ranks caused us all to overlook, by conscious effort or not, a certain leadership mistake that was easy to make. Ladies and gents, the ranking structure itself provided an excellent motivator. What failed us were trials. Whether it was pushover JATs and JAKs or the trials themselves I am not sure. What I am sure of is this: The Knight rank structure was kept. However, the Knight trials were upgraded. Why? This was to insure the “weeding-out” of those who might be excellent students but not the proper outlook for a position of higher leadership. I stand by the fact that the ranks were removed slightly over-zealously and instead should have been restructured. It is due to their removal that we have seen the servers more empty than ever. And while the argument can be made that those who left were bound to leave anyway, that is not for us to decide (nor can we anymore) until it has been shown a fact. Plenty of those who have left were a great asset to this community. “But some abused their ranking, particularly Jmen”. Well, isn’t that the responsibility of the leaders of the community to confront these individuals, instruct them, document them and if needs be, ban them? Leaders: All the students can do is take a cheesy screenie of them or a demo and send it in. It is up to you to discipline the individual. But not slap them so hard that knock out all the other students as well. I am not sure that my point is made. I am not sure if anyone still remaining agrees with me. I do not write this lengthy letter out rebellion but out of loyalty. I love this community. But I have seen it do something that, I believe, has hurt itself. I just want to let my opinion and voice known and if any one agrees let them follow suit. Thank you. One Voice in the JA, ~Broda Dagre~ _______________ The Notorious Conversation Killer |
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| Comments |
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eljeton - Student 
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lol!!! ,..i understand ur post jello,...dont worry,... ,..anyway,..my tought is,..er..,..well,..i hate those darn points!,..:p ,..(btw,..i got a cookie isnt it jello?,..lol) ,,..(cool...),....so,..i didnt agree with the point sistem coz i could see others students going to class only coz of the points,..and , there for,..get a higer rank,...i , personaly,..really hate that,...but i dint matter  coz , while days past ,...i found some new friends every time (like jello say,..) and we start joking around and ofcourse,..we duel,..but the main thing here,...is,...(kind of what exar thinks..),..the community,...the ppl,...the friends(to be more specific),..and of course,..to have fun,..coz thats what a game its all about,..(altough,..is not ONLY a game,. ),..so,...i can say that im agree,...with FUN!,..lol 
P.D : im no longer a initiate!!!  ,..lol!!,.j/k!  _______________ '...its better to light a candle, than cursing the dark,...' -> 0_< |
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Buzz - Student 
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Not wrong Flamori, just your viewpoint. I'd call it misguided though. You think that the journeymen and learners have been knocked down to initiate or something. That's not true, and its also not true to say the initiates are raised up to journeyman. There are still differences in skill, you just can't assume that someone isn't as skilled as you because he is only this rank and has x number of points. Now its a lot more like it would be if you were to go on other servers. You don't really know who is going to be better than you until you fight them. Out on other servers though, these guys might make fun of you for not being able to win or call you dirty or lame for being able to consistently beat them. Here they'll probably try and help you with what you're doing wrong or ask you to help them.
Of course the other night I had someone call me a "lamer" because I knocked him down in saber lock and then got off a dfa that landed on top of him and killed him. I'm not naming him because simply I don't know it. He was using Padawan and then some other wierd name that I don't remember but wasn't listed in student accounts. But he didn't do anything wrong unless you consider trying to insult me and then immediately leave wrong. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Flamori Athena - Student 
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Hehe, nice post.
The points system isn't that bad. Having only the student rank is not as specific as having the other two as well. I know there have been some problems with the points system, but by imposing stricter requirements on the trials, couldn't that problem be solved? Having only the student rank (mentally) takes learners and J-men back to initiate level. (Not that I'm complaining mind you I was an initiate b4 this whole thing started. )
All of a sudden it seems so weird looking at all those names and seeing the rank student beneath almost everyone of them. It was better when there was more specification in the academy. Of course, I'm probably wrong, but just my two cents. _______________ «±» 21st on the Midbie Council, Profile ID: 2027 «±» True wisdom is the knowledge that you know nothing. |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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That's true Buzz, but any system you put in place is gonna have flaws and unforseen things pop up. I just think that would be the best idea if the ranks were gonna be brought back, or just a couple of them.
_______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Buzz - Student 
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The only problem with nominations only Billy is that you don't get people asking about points or ranks, you get them asking for nominations. You can say "well not if we all know that" But what about the ones that join a month after the "nominations only don't bug the JAT's about it" Also using all nominations won't help with people getting big egos. It could hurt some. You'd have people thinking "Not only am I a god but the JAT's recognize my skills" I'm not saying this would happen but there's a possiblity. Afterall I bet when the points were started they didn't think that people would abuse it by just going to the classes to get the point and not learn anything. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Battlin' Billy - Student
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When I got here (Jan-Feb) the we had both ranks and points. I wasn't too crazy about the points, but I liked the ranks. I was just about ready to take my Learner trial when everything got nixed. The only thing I needed was like 2 points. I had trouble getting them bcuz I was never sure if I'd be able to take a class. If I signed up for it, a lot of times I had to un-enroll bcuz something came up in RL™. I found that the ranks gave you like a stepping stone to reach for as you made your way up to Knight. That's how the NHL coaches (at least the Isles coach) talk to their team. Just concentrate on one period at a time, don't think about the whole game.
I think what would have made the ranks work, would have been if for ANY trial, you would need a nomination from one(or more) of the JATs, JACs or JAKs. That would have cut down, if not eliminated, the JATs getting inundated with requests for trials. I don't know, that's my 2 pieces of copper with a picture of Honest Abe on them. _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Jello` - Student 
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Well, i dont know how to word what im trying to say, so if i type somethign that makes no sense... umm yeah...
I joined because i got tired of another game and decided to go back to JK2, so i emailed some old friends from a clan that played on the jolt.co.uk servers (The clan included Shadowsith, trad, and Eclipse) and i emailed trad to see what was going on. he said he joined the academy and it was a fun place to learn. So i decided to join. It was about in November, i think, when they had ranks, but no point system. So, after about a week of re-learning my past skills, i decided to take the Learner trial, i passed with flying colors (except for the fact that i got the "what rule is a person breaking if he brings weapons in the temple and starts shooting people?" question) and so after about another week or two, i decided to take the Jman trial. I passed (and luckily i got the weapons in the temple question again, lol) and then shortly after that, i met a cool guy named Blade_Knight. Well turns out he was in a new clan called Koi, just for fun, so i joined, and was the 4th member. So a while after that they incorperated the points system, which i thought was a bad idea... people just joining classes for points, and then they stopped taking classes after 20 points, so they wouldent forget and get points taken away [i dont know if this is entirley true, but it was what i would of done(not the go to classes for points, but stop taking classes so i wouldent lose any)] so i made some new friends in Koi and in the academy, and met some cool people. And then the point system was removed, which kind of made me mad, and happy at the same time. I was working towards Knight (and still am) and i thought Jman was an accomplishment. OK enough of my story of my joining of the academy. Now, what i think students think, is that not being knight prevents them from helping people.(if that past sentence makes no sence, re-read it) I mean, what is the difference between Knight and student besides admin, and having 'official' padawans, and being 'that' much closer to JAT, which you might even not want to do after youve reached knight. All im saying is that being a student shouldent prevent you from helping people or having 'official' padawans or anything, hell i have someone who is my 'unofficial' padawan and will be my 'official' padawan when, if ever, i make knight. My teaching him wont be any different when i reach knight. So, if this post makes any sense to you, give yourself a cookie. and if it dosent... read it 3 more times... or something, just my opinion. PS. Damn, this is the longest thing ive ever typed. PSS. Fizz, i am 13, and maybe my 'personality' isnt fully developed or whatever, but i use the academy to take a break from (gasp) my real life (tm) [ok 3rd edit] I have also gotten 2 comments on how i dont 'act' 13. Those people shall remain nameless.. for now (and im sure i could actually act 13 and flame you for saying that stuff, but im not that kind of person ) _______________ Brady Brothers: Orion-Greg, Furi0us-Peter, Me-Bobby. Long lost cousin to Flash. Midbie Council #007. Ex-JAK. This comment was edited by Jello` on Mar 26 2003 01:32am. |
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Broda Dagre - Student 
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Well, it's me. The instigator. The guy poking the anthill with a stick.
Proud of it too!! I wanted to make sure everyone understands something and that everything is clear. I DO understand the reasoning for the removal of the ranks and points. I DO agree with the removal of the points. They WERE a distractor and people got a little crazy, and well, stupid with them. But to reiterate the last two posts. The problem was in the trials and the points. If the trials did their job only the select few would advance and those few would be the caliber of student that would NOT abuse their position. The trials did not do their job. The upper echelons of the JA have not disbanded the knight rank. They simply restructured it. So let me ask those upper echelons this: Has this worked so far as you can tell? Second, Aeth is right. I want a new friggin' toy!!!!!!!  _______________ Fact of the day: In New York City, rats bite about 311 people in an average year. However, 1,519 residents are bitten annually by other New Yorkers. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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well said, Aeth.
The major issue here is, that there are, most of the people that post in here, as I believe, elder or at least more adult people, and some youngsters on the other hand, that are just here for fun, and who's personality aint possibly fully developed. I already see ppl flaming me for writing this, but its my point, and I state it out. These people need guidance, and the JA is only a very rough guide as of now. The ranks were not the problem, the trials and points were. I hope the JACs come up with something at a given time, because I think most people are just stranded in here because there simply is to much to learn. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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Well, honestly, I dont feel too much difference between the times with and without ranks (and I have been here in the time without even the padawan ranks).
The only difference i see is that people were extremly focused on the ranks. It not only motivated them, but boosted egos, made some of them arrogant or it frustrating. On the other hand, i liked that older members got some recognition aswell... and it was nr. 1 thing against boredom. So what is my fazit? I don't know. I honestly dont know... but one thing we should do: get the students a new toy to play with _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Katan - Student 
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Ok, I know, I wasnt here when there were the rank, and point system, but to me it sounds like there was good, and bad, such as some people, it gave them goals, to become better, while others, did it to be better than others, it sounds like the JAT's were being overwhelmed by trials, so I can see taking out those ranks, and while the point system was meant for good, from the sounds of it, it didnt help, to taking away the point and rank system, some good came out, while some bad came out. Some people abused the point and rank system, and ruined it for all. Now we are all equal, no one thinking, "Ok, I am better than almost eveyone on the sever." While some people, I think needed the ranks, because it gave them goals as I said, that I think was the whole reason for the rank system, for goals, maybe I am wrong, maybe I should have kept quiet. But this is what I think. _______________ |
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[JAS] F O R T E - Ex-Student ![[JAS] F O R T E](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=65&f_image=metroid.jpg&f_odd=1)
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when i first started to play JKII multiplayer, i was just a novice compared to people on public servers... a noob if u will... i dominated the bots and i thought i was pretty good so i started playing in the public servers thinking i could probably get a challenge. but i was utterly defeated and amazed by the skills of everyone. the one thing i didn't like about those public servers was how they were very disorganized. being fragged by no reason really sucked... so i sought out a place where i can learn in an organized fasion, and so i found the JA. everyone was very friendly here and the JAT's happily taught me. i had no idea about ranks here, all i saw was the learning. that's what i liked about the JA. until the point when i found out about the ranking system, i started to have fun and attending some classes here and there while some i couldn't attend. when ppl looked at my profile they acted as if they were superior because of my negative points. what i'm trying to say is that the JA shouldn't be about minority/superiority or trying to be better than somebody else. like i started out i was preoccupied with learning, *not* the point system. the word academy should mean a place where knowledge takes place just for the fun of it, to broaden your horizons, to expand your mind. not to earn your skills just to prove yourself to everyone else. i think it was a good idea to take away the point system/rank system. people mostly come here to this community to show everyone that they can kick anus,(don't know if i can say @$$, or even if this is appropriate) and earn the points just so they can climb to higher ranks and laugh down at the non-epirenced students. if they were really a knight they would teach the students instead of fragging them.
-F O R T E |
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Loaf - Ex-Student 
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yeah, good job man. _______________ The Notorious Conversation Killer |
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Broda Dagre - Student
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Wow, I wrote a long letter. _______________ Fact of the day: In New York City, rats bite about 311 people in an average year. However, 1,519 residents are bitten annually by other New Yorkers. |
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Loaf - Ex-Student
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before you joined exar, the ranks were:
Student (all new people) Padawan (Jedi Apprentice) Apprentice (Sith Apprentice) Jedi In Training (Training rank for JATs) Trainers (JATs) Council (admins) At that time, I was a padawan, to the famous Dante (ryo). It was better back then. _______________ The Notorious Conversation Killer This comment was edited by Loaf on Mar 24 2003 09:08pm. |
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cHoSeN oNe - Retired 
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The two smaller ranks "Journeyman" and "Learner" were removed for several reasons:
1) Everyone was striving to be a Knight or better anyways. 2) We added the requirements for a Knight from the Learner and J-Man trials. So they are all merged into 1. 3) There was way too many people greedy for trials. With the underpopulation of the JAT's/JAK's, students would claim that the JAT's/JAK's are never online, when in fact they were doing as much as possible. There was a lot of disrespect towards the JAT's/JAK's. 4) People were more obsessed with how many points they had rather than giving a damn about the game and its community. 5) Students would also sign up for a class just for points, they would idle and leave. 6) The "Student" rank is just like true to the movies. There are padawans, students, knights, masters, council. I know for a fact that if we kept this point system and all these ranks that it would have drove the JA to sure destruction. It's like Luke training...the only way he could become a knight, was to defeat vader himself. But before that, he had no rank...he wasnt a journeyman. Basically a student/padawan of Yoda and Obi-Wan. I hope this clarifys things a little bit better. This was in the interest of fairness for everyone, not just one person. This way, you can really strut your stuff when you become a knight!! _______________ Get busy living, or get busy dying. |
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Lord Exar Kun - Student 
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Ok, first of all, I want to say that I think it's brave of you to write this .
But I'm afraid I cannot agree with you about the ranks. The ranks were indeed first made to let people have a goal in the academy. It was, I think, no meant to stay forever, but as an experiment. When the leaders saw that people were mroe eager to get a higher rank and more power then to expand their knowledge, they decided to make a point system. That system would make it harder for people to get their trials, and it would make the trial flood slow down. I myself joined the academy by the time the ranks were coming, and I never really saw how it was before that. I did however see the race for ranks in the beginning of their existance, and I didnt like what I saw at all. People were asking their fellow students what rank they were only to determain wether they were better then others or not. If they had a highrt rank, they would think: hah, I'm higher, and think that they were more important then the other guy. This is quite the oposite of what the JA was all about: learning people things off course, but also this JA was a a place where people respected eachother as equals, unlike the public servers, as you pointed out, where people are harsh to eachother. That attitude started to come to the JA as well, with the ranking system. People were no longer trying to learn for fun, but they were trying to gather as much skill and knowledge as they could, only to get a higher rank. Therefore I think the ranking system was a mistake. The point system was only ment to save the ranking system, but in the end it only killed it. I think it's better this way. People who left because of the change op plans, were exactely those people who thought that they were a higher being when they had a higher rank. we don't need that kind of people here at the academy. We want people who are eager to learn, and who respect their fellow students the way they are, and dont judge them by rank. PS I don't think the servers are more empty then before at all.... _______________ -Retired april the 19th 2004 |
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Loaf - Ex-Student 
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lol, it looked smaller than that in the email... _______________ The Notorious Conversation Killer |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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I feel the same - we joint at about the same time, u, as I, were Journeyman.
Step by Step we achieved goals - goals that would lead our way - goals that we were eager to achieve. I feel with you brother, and I am for sure on of those who remain and agree with you. - fiZZ of Belouve _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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