| Michael Moore Being Sued Over Fahrenheit 9/11 | |
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Ex-Rauc - Student |
Click and discuss, as per usual. |
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Buzz - Student 
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The first amendment is actually pretty solid. The case you list there is akin to shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theater. I would say that Damon has a pretty good case. Would you be embarrassed if several million people you make a statement that was made to look like you were saying something you didn't agree with? In a world of frivolous lawsuits, this one actually has sense behind it. And the only ones calling Iraq the new Vietnam are those desperately hoping that it will be. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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skankerkid - Student 
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Quote: Damon, 33, claims that Moore never asked for his consent to use a clip from an interview Damon did with NBC's "Nightly News." that will most likley be the kill shot for moore. but as for Quote: loss of reputation, emotional distress, embarrassment, and personal humiliation , that's a different story. the thing is that you have the burden of proving it. it is quite difficult to show or establish one's "reputation" in an authoritative group. it requires an exhorbident amount of proven impartial testimonials and accounts. personally,(and this is just my opinion) with iraq being today's vietnam, we have to be careful of what and how we say what is our minds. the 1st ammendment isn't at all solid. Schenck v. United States showed us that. we just have to figure out what the hell we're going to do.ari out. _______________ Shout out to DJ Sith cause he's my big bro. Shout out to Debbie because she's my sister in-law. Also it aint cool if aint skewed. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: The national debt we've accumulated from the war and the horrible idea of tax cuts for the rich, especially during a war, has made us weaker than ever. Tax revenues have increased due to the tax cuts. There is issue with the fact that congress has agreed on continuing the cuts that have more benefit to the rich already, and still pussy-footing around with the breaks that benefit the middle class but hopefully that will get changed. Quote: American dollars are worth less, we are trillions of dollars in debt, The dollar has recently made gain against the Euro again, but it was weakening before Bush took office too. Trillions in debt, but not because of tax cuts. Its because of spending. Bush has never vetoed a single spending bill and that's a major gripe among conservatives. Basically they're spending money like democrats and that's not a good thing. Quote: we have no true exit plan at the moment for Iraq. Iraq was all about oil in my opinion Oh you want an exit strategy? Like Clinton had in Bosnia right? "Home by Christmas" I believe it was. Good thing he didn't specify a year. "When the Iraqi's can stand up, we will stand down." There's the exit strategy and its probably the best one you can get. And just because its your opinion doesn't mean its true. Quote: If we had spent all those hundreds of billions of dollars that we spent on the war on say.....improving and creating alternative sources of energy, we could have a major upper hand in the economy when the oil runs out in anywhere from 20-50 years(there are varying estimates). I thought you were complaining about our spending that money on the war. Now you're saying you just want it spent differently. And we do have viable energy alternatives. One of them is nuclear power. Guess which groups are going heavily against a power source that has next to no pollution? Even then we won't lose dependence on oil though. Guess what plastic is made out of? Its also not likely we'll run out of oil. As its price goes up demand for it will drop. And if it continues to go up, utilizing oil from shale could become a profitable venture. Guess which countries have more oil, than any middle eastern cointries when you include shale oil? Quote: I also don't buy this "we're safer with democracies in the middle east than with tyrants" stuff. Couldn't hurt to try though could it? Quote: Look at Iran....it's got elected officials and all and they have only threatened that if the western world interferes with THEM developing WMDs that they will destroy Israel. Elections do not mean democracy. Cuba and Iraq under saddam both had elections. In Iran the mullahs get to decide who is on the ballots, and in the last election a lot of the popular "moderates" were forbidden from running. By international law, Iran is not allowed to develop nuclear weapons. And that is their goal. And if you think that their word is good on only attacking Israel if we try to stop them then I would refer you to research Neville Chamberlain. Quote: Just because they are a democracy does not make them our friends or make them safer. Have any historical examples to show this as the case? As far as I can tell, the US has never gone to war with another democracy. Quote: Saddam may have been a monster, but his violence is nothing compared to the results of our actions. Now I don't blame the United States directly for these deaths seeing as it is the terrorists that do most of the killing. However, through our actions we have erased the order of the country established by Saddam and we opened it up to a huge increase in terrorism, leading to the deaths of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Iraqis. Saddam killed millions of his own people, along with using chemical weapons on them. He and the cronies at the UN used the oil for food program to line their pockets while even more suffered. But we're worse. Sure thing. And order through tyranny is a lie and no way to live free. As for opening it up to terrorism, you're right. The administration dropped the ball big time in not planning for that and everyone is suffering for their hamfisted approach on dealing with Iraq post-invasion. Quote: We've only made an unstable situation worse And I hope you realize that leaving now or setting a specific date for when we will leave will only exponentially increase that. Leave now and I think you can imagine the chaos that will result. Set a specific date and those that want a return to tyranny only need to bide their time and gather their resources and wait for the day with a big red X on the calendar. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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El Vee For - Student 
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Interesting view, very interesting... _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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{JF}Jesse - Student |
Before you all read this I want to make sure you know I have the upmost respect for your opinions. I don't think that people realize the magnitude of Bush's mistake. The national debt we've accumulated from the war and the horrible idea of tax cuts for the rich, especially during a war, has made us weaker than ever. American dollars are worth less, we are trillions of dollars in debt, and we have no true exit plan at the moment for Iraq. Iraq was all about oil in my opinion, its a major basis of our economy and bush has proven he has a knack for limited sight. If we had spent all those hundreds of billions of dollars that we spent on the war on say.....improving and creating alternative sources of energy, we could have a major upper hand in the economy when the oil runs out in anywhere from 20-50 years(there are varying estimates). I also don't buy this "we're safer with democracies in the middle east than with tyrants" stuff. Look at Iran....it's got elected officials and all and they have only threatened that if the western world interferes with THEM developing WMDs that they will destroy Israel. Just because they are a democracy does not make them our friends or make them safer. Saddam may have been a monster, but his violence is nothing compared to the results of our actions. Now I don't blame the United States directly for these deaths seeing as it is the terrorists that do most of the killing. However, through our actions we have erased the order of the country established by Saddam and we opened it up to a huge increase in terrorism, leading to the deaths of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Iraqis. We've only made an unstable situation worse. This comment was edited by {JF}Jesse on Jun 13 2006 07:31pm. |
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Buzz - Student 
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You're right we did have other reasons for invading Iraq along with the freeing of the people(Operation Iraqi Freedom.) The fact that he violated the ceasefire agreement is one. Whether you want to believe he had wmd or not is something different, but even the reports that say he didn't admit that he had every intention, and was prepared to immediately restart production and development as soon as the world turned their backs to him. He also supported terrorists as well: Paying $20,000 to the families of suicide bombers in israel, and if you ask a clinton appointed judge in new york he owes the families of 9/11 victims money for his part in that. There are other reasons as well, and other factors also, but the thing that we have learned is that the US isn't allowed to just sit back and worry about its own interests and say to hell with the rest of the world. We're still worried about our own interests but we just see that helping to stabilize other countries and giving them freedom is in our best interest as well as theirs. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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Actually, think of it this way ... Remember the oil-crisis in 1973 (Europe had one, I'm willing to bet America had one too). I'm not old enough to remember it, but we learned all about it in our Economics Class. The results were terrible and the governments started taking on huge debts, most of which has not been payed off to this day. Imagine that the middle-east would one day decide (yet again) to close the tap on oil. We would get no oil, the prices in these parts would sky-rocket, meaning that we have less money, so we pay less taxes. Paying less taxes means that the government gets less cash. The enterprises would have to pay big time to get their hands on some oil and continue with their production, which no doubt would make sure some go bankrupt before long. It's the government's job then to give money to the enterprises so they don't go bankrupt (to put it simple) So, not only do the governments have less cash, they also have to spend more. Now imagine if we actually have allies in the Middle-East (such as the new Iraq) that would prevent such a thing from happening. It's a win-win situation for the future. That could have been George Bush's plan, I think. Having allies in the Middle-East is good for everyone. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
Okay I'll take your word on that, but I'm pretty sure there would be other factors to determine that than looking solely at gas prices. I know jack all about economics and anything remotely related so anybody feel like shedding some light? EDIT: If I didn't make clear my scepticism before then I'll do so now - I find it hard to believe that Bush would invade Iraq simply to 'save the Iraqi people' without expect to gain something in return, namely - oil (and who knows what else). America's track record is proof enough, at least to me, that their motives in invading Iraq lay in the developments of their own interests as opposed to the concern they held for the Iraqi people. They would not do so unless they stood to gain considerably. Bush also invaded under a veil of concern for the world's interests by claiming that Saddam was developing/planning to utilise the so-called 'weapons of mass destruction.' I understand that some weapons or traces of chemical agents etc have been found but these, as far as I have heard, are nothing you would invade a country over and are most certainly not of the magnitude Bush had claimed. As such I continue to use the word 'veil' to describe the weapons of mass destruction argument as a motive to invade Iraq. I also read Javaguy's post about the cost of invading being greater than to simply buy oil from Iraq, but with the points I've just mentioned above (only the first two that popped into my head, mind)... I'm not quite satisfied. I need a little more convincing. _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade 
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey 
Jools is my best friend. 
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID This comment was edited by xAnAtOs on Jun 12 2006 12:42pm. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote:
Quote: Javaguy says: Have we stolen their oil? No. Just out of curiosity... how the hell could you possibly know that for a fact? Definitely isn't showing up in our gas prices. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
Quote: Javaguy says: Have we stolen their oil? No. Just out of curiosity... how the hell could you possibly know that for a fact? _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey
Jools is my best friend.
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID |
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Maher - Jedi Knight 
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Quote:
Quote: What ever you said about Iraq, UN and USA...USA did wrong in that allready they attacked to IRAQ and WAR is always wrong in our tiny planet...also killing people and such but heck, This thing would have taken care of nice way but Bush and Goverment of USA did what they want... It is destiny to have to choose a lesser of two evils. That what the US has done. While all we see now is Iraq in shambles we shouldn't forget about what it was 15 years ago. Tyranny is unacceptable on our tiny little planet.There isn't enough room on this earth for tyranny and republic based democracy, lol, they will always but heads. Democracys hinge on trade. We want to trade with Iraq. Yes we want their oil. Is it wrong to remove a dictator that kills his own people so that we can open trade to the region and our citizens will be safe to do business there. No it isn't. Yes it is and our mission isn't to choose lesser of two evils...We need to take care of them way like earth will live long and happy...and if people thinking just their own contries and theirselves, We have nothing left...just bunch of idiots who trying to stay on first place... _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
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Maher - Jedi Knight 
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oh so you guys truly assume that you arguing with facts...Ok so this world is truly better place and where are you from??? Hmm guess naw I don't want... I am from Finland btw...  Buzz You aren't tyrant stop that and EVF sstop saying Buzz is tyrant...We are all just great guys and I am the only noob so beat me....beat me... JavaGuy is just JavaGuy who kissing somethingWhat I don't know.. Quote: What we have here is a hard-core conspiracy theorist. But I would have impressed very much if this statement have had for me _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Jun 11 2006 03:16pm. |
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Buzz - Student
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I've figured that javaguy. Plenty of those out there. He'd love those movies that "prove" the wtc was rigged to blow and flight 93 actually crashed in ohio. But you know "this is my site" and I'm the big bad tyrant here always telling people to shut up or I'll ban them in every thread I post. I do it all the time, reminding them that I'm an admin. I bully people away with my opinions and if they don't agree with me they're gone. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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El Vee For - Student
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Quote: What ever you said about Iraq, UN and USA...USA did wrong in that allready they attacked to IRAQ and WAR is always wrong in our tiny planet...also killing people and such but heck, This thing would have taken care of nice way but Bush and Goverment of USA did what they want... It is destiny to have to choose a lesser of two evils. That what the US has done. While all we see now is Iraq in shambles we shouldn't forget about what it was 15 years ago. Tyranny is unacceptable on our tiny little planet.There isn't enough room on this earth for tyranny and republic based democracy, lol, they will always but heads. Democracys hinge on trade. We want to trade with Iraq. Yes we want their oil. Is it wrong to remove a dictator that kills his own people so that we can open trade to the region and our citizens will be safe to do business there. No it isn't. _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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What we have here is a hard-core conspiracy theorist. Buzz I think you're wasting your time trying to discuss facts with such a person. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Maher - Jedi Knight
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Quote: Last resolution against Iraq was that Saddam must comply or there would be consequences against him. That was the last of something like 17 resolutions against him since the ceasefire agreement, which he repeatedly violated. We went to the UN first and asked them to agree to actually follow through with what they said would happen. They didn't we did. Saddam received brief CIA training. He was involved in a coup that failed and he wound up in prison. Eventually the government did change there and he got into power, all while the US still had no diplomatic relations with Iraq. When Saddam truly became the leader of Iraq in 1979 we still had no relations with them. And didn't until around 1984. As for anything else you might have to say: Quote: Is Osama still for service of USA and CIA so they can frighten people with threat of terrorism... Something such as that removes you so far from reality, that if the idea of a multiverse were to be true you wouldn't even be within any of them. That won't remove me from anything because I looking for truth, I haven't found it, I don't say that I am right but at least I have been and still discovering...I don't build my arguments for assumptions, I building them for what I have read from books and news papers also from internet heh and conclusions of my own but no, I don't never say I am right... What ever you said about Iraq, UN and USA...USA did wrong in that allready they attacked to IRAQ and WAR is always wrong in our tiny planet...also killing people and such but heck, This thing would have taken care of nice way but Bush and Goverment of USA did what they want... _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber |
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Buzz - Student
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Last resolution against Iraq was that Saddam must comply or there would be consequences against him. That was the last of something like 17 resolutions against him since the ceasefire agreement, which he repeatedly violated. We went to the UN first and asked them to agree to actually follow through with what they said would happen. They didn't we did. Saddam received brief CIA training. He was involved in a coup that failed and he wound up in prison. Eventually the government did change there and he got into power, all while the US still had no diplomatic relations with Iraq. When Saddam truly became the leader of Iraq in 1979 we still had no relations with them. And didn't until around 1984. As for anything else you might have to say: Quote: Is Osama still for service of USA and CIA so they can frighten people with threat of terrorism... Something such as that removes you so far from reality, that if the idea of a multiverse were to be true you wouldn't even be within any of them. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Maher - Jedi Knight
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Quote:
Quote: For me, I really don't like from Bush, It was too obvious when U.S.A attacked to Iraq, The Main Goal was Oil and not the mass-destruction-weapon(hmm right spelled). It was good when Sadam went down but still in my perspective, Sadam was highly trained by CIA as well as Osama was too... How much training did saddam receive? Was it a lot? could have fooled me since him and the 5 others who attempted to over throw the iraqi government failed. And oil... its always about oil. You can say the US did it for oil, but that's also the reason France, Russia, Germany, and China did what they did too. Oil is the only reason any government cares at all about the hell hole that is the Middle East. The Mid East without oil is worse than Africa. Eh take it easy Buzz...I just saying there is too many uncleared points...and they said they will go for mass-destruction-weapon and they attacked without the United Nation's permission to Iraq, many countries respect the United Nations but USA's goverment didn't and It was Bush who gave those orders... But still there is so many unexplained things... Hmm and I dare to throw out argument that Sadam was trained by CIA, actually He was trained for Iraq and keeping USA's Oil taps on from Iraq to USA, but one day when Dog ripped him leash out..b00m War of the Persia was borned... But still there is so many unexplained things... Need to read history more because it is interest ,made by USA's history professors and state science professors...Own People of USA.. Which says Saddam and Osama were trained by CIA and what I meaning unexplained things Is Osama still for service of USA and CIA so they can frighten people with threat of terrorism... You know money and greed of people, It is blinding, make people fight from money, killing each other.. I hate human nature allready and that because people don't understand they need to pull together and forget money for all good and start thinking how we will survive together... and heck I don't care if Middle East have oil or Africa is as bad...I care about people of those lands and how to help them...Damned to Bush will be and all what he represent, Wars, Oils, Ruins of the World... That so I like these kind of communities like JA.net we living in peace, making friends, get to know people...This is like ghetto of Serenity.... but I don't say It isn't good for little arguing.. _______________ Still here | My Lightsaber This comment was edited by Maher on Jun 10 2006 10:52pm. |
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El Vee For - Student 
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ok, you were talking to all, not just me my apologies, sincerely my experience has often caused assumptions, as it will do, hence forth I will consider your comments as you direct. peace Lv _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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Hardwired - Retired 
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Quote: El Vee For said: This angered me just a little bit when I read it. Hardwired is on Buzz's side always will be. I begged Buzz to take this elsewhere, again and again but he kept it going with rebuttal after rebuttal didn't he. Then Buzz it thoroughly condescending to me. Acting like my father deciding what is and isn't good for me. Protecting me. I protected him, and the precious freedom he covets, when he was still learning to tie his shoes!! You too most likely, depending on your country of origin and your age. Sweden, nice place my Dads side of family immigrated from there, beautiful place with a much better political ideal than that of the US. Stay there, its a good place to be now that the Soviet Union is no more. So if you don't like the color of my posts maybe you should weigh the content of the posts that came before mine and if you still think that you are doing good work by scolding me mate. Then you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Excuse me? I have never, nor will I ever pick sides in a foreing politics discussion. Myself and Buzz do not share any close connection what-so-ever. I was not refering to you excusivly. But seeing how you thought that speaks volumes to me. Quote: Buzz said: You don't want to see where I talk politics. There's no such thing as civilized discussion on the internet, and its just proven there. What I do here is like using kid-gloves in comparison to what goes on in other places. This statement alone should have easiely been connected to my own suggestion. Bottom line is that I am speaking to everyone that takes part in this discussion, at present time and in the future. Do not put words in my mouth that are not in plain text. I have my own view of US politics, one I will not share here. But rest assured that I favor no one in this discussion. - HW _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: This comment was edited by Hardwired on Jun 10 2006 10:36pm. |
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JavaGuy - Student
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It's unfortunate that nobody who follows the U.S.-did-it-for-oil conspiracy theory ever bothers to examine the facts. At the time we invaded, the U.S. was buying about $5 million worth of oil per day, if memory serves. The estimated cost of the war was, at the time, $80 billion (!). So it would have been much cheaper for us to do like the French and give Saddam a free pass, pretend he was complying with the terms of the truce and drop the embargo. Buying oil from Saddam would have been much cheaper than the war, even if the war had been as cheap as it was projected to be. Saddam had been ripping off his people (not to mention murdering them by the thousands) for many years, and the French had lucrative contracts with him, at the expense of the Iraqi people. The French objected to Saddam's removal because they didn't want to lose their blood money. Ironically they called the U.S. invasion motivated by oil. And of course the conspiracy theorists insist that the U.S. invasion was all about going in and stealing the Iraqis' oil--at a price far greater than what buying it from Saddam would have cost--but look at Iraq now. Have we stolen their oil? No. The Iraqi people are profiting from their oil for the first time in many years. To anybody willing to examine the facts, the U.S. clearly acted against its financial interest by deposing Saddam. We could have simply pretended that Saddam wasn't a problem and gone about our business. But we weren't interested only in our wallets. We were interested in what was morally right, in getting a mass-murdering sociopath out of power and removing a threat to his neighbors and to us. Amazingly, I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Give them back their oil and leave Iraq." By "them" I can only assume it meant Saddam and Chirac. It makes me sick to know there are people in this country who would like to see a resumption of the mass murder of Iraqis. (And no, the currently level of violence in Iraq does not compare to the mass murders and torture that took place routinely under Saddam.) Here's the other part I love: Throughout the days leading up to the invasion, the liberal media were incessantly abuzz with talk of how ousting Saddam would bring the price of gasoline way down and how that was the real reason for the war. Bought a gallon of gas recently? _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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El Vee For - Student
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Quote: The entertainment level of this thread just went up 200%. sniff sniff, antagonist lol we are taking this elsewhere, link in my profile. _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance 
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The entertainment level of this thread just went up 200%. |
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Buzz - Student
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And I would like to have a discussion without someone like Michael Moore putting out movies full of lies and deceptions that people eat up as truth. You spend all your time pointing out to people that the things he claims are complete BS and sometime never get into an active discussion. And plenty of people get hurt and left in the dust behind He of Massive Waistline. Lila Lipscomb and Sgt. Damon are 2. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: For me, I really don't like from Bush, It was too obvious when U.S.A attacked to Iraq, The Main Goal was Oil and not the mass-destruction-weapon(hmm right spelled). It was good when Sadam went down but still in my perspective, Sadam was highly trained by CIA as well as Osama was too... How much training did saddam receive? Was it a lot? could have fooled me since him and the 5 others who attempted to over throw the iraqi government failed. And oil... its always about oil. You can say the US did it for oil, but that's also the reason France, Russia, Germany, and China did what they did too. Oil is the only reason any government cares at all about the hell hole that is the Middle East. The Mid East without oil is worse than Africa. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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