| Japanese Dolphin Fishing | |
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planK - Jedi Council  |
I warn you, this is a very graphic video, but it's absolutely sickening that these animals are slaughtered so inhumanely. I personally don't have a problem with them being used for meat, but the methods used must change.
Again, I warn you, this is a graphic video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEEmmIGtFg |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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Sure maybe meat would have a little less fat and perhaps it tastes better; the few health issues in developed countries regarding fresh meat might be solved. Now what are the significant changes?
Better tasting meat actually comes about with a higher fat content. That's why people say meat is a little bit more bland after you cook it on a foreman grill: you've taken a lot more of the grease and fat out of it. Yeah, generally speaking leaner meat lacks flavour, but is obviously richer in protein and thus costs more. |
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Augusta_Mintaka - Student 
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I care, but I think also. If you cant consider our economics and links to primal instinct then how can you truly understand the situation? I take side with every perspective of the situation because they all are right and wrong in their own way. You talk about poor animal conditions and how we "rape" hordes of animals. Well I also consider that, but I think about the necessity to meet our demands. I think about how we are linked to other meat eating animals and how distorted our similarities are purely because humanity advanced itself to heights far beyond other predators.
As I said, I care. Yet, I consider necessity of humanity in context to our numbers and economic situation. I eat meat, I like meat and I don't plan to stop eating meat unless my doctor tells me to. If I watch a cow being thrown into some shredder machine I wont cheer it on, but I wont cry my face off either. Appalled? I might be disgusted by the sight of the gore, but I wont be disgusted at humanity because I view it from every perspective and find that I understand. Call me heartless, call me inconsiderate, but at least I understand humanities needs and I have enough consideration to support exterminating things like veal production and this dolphin hunting. _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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Quote: Predator killing is the same as what were doing, just to a greater extent. I cannot see how the natural give-take part of our ecological system imbedded in the "predator-prey" analogy is compatible with the status quo of the meat industry. Infact, i think a far more realistic analogy with regards to how we feed ourselves in the west would be with the use of the word "rape". We chemically enhance what is natural to feed our gluttony - environmental, ethical and health issues are largely swept under the rug in favor of profit maximization, the maintenance of artificially low prices, and to make sure McDonalds et al have enough meat this month.
Quote: We use our technology to gather all the food we need You imply the necessity of survival - and yet, the massive slaughter of drugged animals that spend their whole life in small cages standing in crap is completely insignificant to our survival. The abundancy of low-quality meat that is produced this way is an unnecessary luxury.
Quote: To us, meat is meat; less than 1% of us wants to know how we got it. Were just like predators, as long as there is dinner on the table we wont ask questions. Exactly, the vast majority of people live by this type of blanket-apathy-policy, where ignorance is bliss and avarice, gluttony, intoxication, sensationalism and selfishness reigns supreme.
- I'm wondering, for someone who is happy to publicly proclaim their compassion, if you actually are aware of the horrible suffering that is going on in slaughterhouses thanks to careless or uncaring technicians. For someone who claims to be compassionate, or at least interested in compassion, your affirmation strikes me as contradictory. Would not be a compassionate person, for consistency if not by definition, naturally appalled by the issue at hand? _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Augusta_Mintaka - Student
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Well taste is more opinionated, some people prefer the high quality free range meat. I cant tell the difference, myself. Just using it as an example for what could be a plus side. _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: Sure maybe meat would have a little less fat and perhaps it tastes better; the few health issues in developed countries regarding fresh meat might be solved. Now what are the significant changes?
Better tasting meat actually comes about with a higher fat content. That's why people say meat is a little bit more bland after you cook it on a foreman grill: you've taken a lot more of the grease and fat out of it. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Augusta_Mintaka - Student
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Predator killing is the same as what were doing, just to a greater extent. Sounds stupid, huh? Yet, if you think about it, predators use every resource at their disposal to increase the amount of food they receive. We use our technology to gather all the food we need; do you believe animals consider morality when hunting? No, morality is a luxury given to us (and a few other animals to a lesser extent) which is the reason our species is still even alive. If it was up to a predator, it wont care how it gets the food, just that it gets the food.
Now apply that to our meat farms. If we suddenly made all the farms produce meat from animals that led healthy lives in good conditions, what would change? Sure maybe meat would have a little less fat and perhaps it tastes better; the few health issues in developed countries regarding fresh meat might be solved. Now what are the significant changes? To us, meat is meat; less than 1% of us wants to know how we got it. Were just like predators, as long as there is dinner on the table we wont ask questions. I don't support poor animal conditions, but I know that were doing what any creature does to survive: use what we have and use it the best way we can. Of course we can make it more efficient, but morality has enough of a hold to keep us from going completely overboard. _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: The farmers want to make money, and the simplest way to make money is to have healthy livestock. That means making sure they have water and enough food, having facilities to help with the removal of waste to prevent the chance of diseases. They also need to be in relatively decent shape too because you get more for muscle than you do for fat. The process of maximizing ones profit is mostly (if not solely) done at the expense of quality.
In this case, it is way more profitable to confine great quantities of livestock into an extremly tight indoor space or cage, instead of letting them roam and graze on a pasture. In such an enclosed space, preventing the decomposition of manure which would result in the emission of high levels of toxins, is almost impossible - it is thus more profitable to counteract the arising diseases inherent in such conditions with constant doses of antibiotics. Exposing the animals to unhealthy additives like pesticides and hormones in order to stimulate growth and/or the production of an unnaturally high amount of eggs/milk is very profitable aswell. The resulting insanity drives some of the animals even as far as cannibalism, thus their bodies are deliberately mutilated (searing off the beaks of chicken, cutting the pig's tails et al) to prevent them from hurting each other. Such animals are anything but healthy - and such farms are anything but exceptions. Especially the US is affected, where only a handful of big companies is controlling the processing of meat, and over 80% of all pigs suffer from pneumonia upon slaughter. Quote: I'll be more concerned about how livestock is treated when you can convince a lion that ripping out the throat of a gazelle is and inhumane way of getting food, or a wolf taking out the feet of a deer, or a crocodile from grabbing hold and drowning its food or spinning around to rip off pieces of flesh. The act of a predator killing it's prey hardly justifies the extremely harsh conditions and severe animal cruelty which we raise our livestock in. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Farm animals are not inhumanely treated the majority of the time. They live very good lives with few exceptions, and the reason is simple. The farmers want to make money, and the simplest way to make money is to have healthy livestock. That means making sure they have water and enough food, having facilities to help with the removal of waste to prevent the chance of diseases. They also need to be in relatively decent shape too because you get more for muscle than you do for fat.
I'll be more concerned about how livestock is treated when you can convince a lion that ripping out the throat of a gazelle is and inhumane way of getting food, or a wolf taking out the feet of a deer, or a crocodile from grabbing hold and drowning its food or spinning around to rip off pieces of flesh. Dolphins are a different story. They are intelligent creatures, capable of communication and even having names for themselves. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: I was talking in too broad terms. I'm all for the abolishment of the conventional methodology of livestock farming - standards for the breeding, feeding and raising of livestock should be increased greatly, with organic farms as an example. This in turn would result in higher prices and less availability for meat.
Even though organic meat does cost about 10-50% more than conventional meat, it hardly does ever come close to $50 per pound for beef. Also, the argument of quantity only works if the world's demand for low-quality, cheap and abudant meat is not curbed - otherwise, organic farming could easily replace conventional agriculture.
That's wrong. Organic farming could at best feed 2/3 of the current world population. The idea of it being so great for the world is a western guilt trip idea. Go ask a family on the brink of starvation if they care how their food was acquired if you told them they would finally be able to eat. However, i do think that conventional farming of vegetables, fruits, grain etc should mostly remain intact, since the overall increase of prices for all kinds of food would prove very disadvantageous for the poor, and the global adoptation of an organic methodology would spawn forth a series of additional troubling issues :S _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student 
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the conclusion is simple - humans are inhuman. _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: Even though organic meat does cost about 10-50% more than conventional meat, it hardly does ever come close to $50 per pound for beef. Also, the argument of quantity only works if the world's demand for low-quality, cheap and abudant meat is not curbed - otherwise, organic farming could easily replace conventional agriculture.
That's wrong. Organic farming could at best feed 2/3 of the current world population. The idea of it being so great for the world is a western guilt trip idea. Go ask a family on the brink of starvation if they care how their food was acquired if you told them they would finally be able to eat. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Laziana - Jedi Instructor 
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But what I really cannot accept is the way those animals are killed. At least dolphins are free up until the point of capture and slaughter. Animals in conventional pork, poultry or beef "farms" have it way worse, since they are literally being raised in inhumane ways - not just killed. I partly agree, but it sounds a bit like a generalization. I just can say this from my own experience: I live in a pretty small village and we have some fields and animal farms and I am there once in a while. And I cannot say, that those animals are raised in an inhuman way. They have their fields to run around, etc. Not imprisoned in some boxes or something. Altough when it comes down to mass production, I totally agree. The cases I got to know were just inhuman, as you said. greez, -Laz _______________ Proud owner of Buster Senatu's 200th & 300th, Muro's 370th, Maher's 2100th, Henkes' 1639th, Johauna's 400th, 666th and 900th, Sho Koon's 2000th and Kain Sol's 600th comment Download Laziana's lightsaber here! Glory to Arstozka! This comment was edited by Laziana on Mar 28 2007 12:22pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council
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Quote: cmon lets just start killing every living creature We already do that. The current ongoing human-caused rate of mass extinction of species is about 10-100 times greater than any of the mass extinction events in the history of the earth.
Quote: But what I really cannot accept is the way those animals are killed. At least dolphins are free up until the point of capture and slaughter. Animals in conventional pork, poultry or beef "farms" have it way worse, since they are literally being raised in inhumane ways - not just killed.
Quote: The cost of humane processing of animals would be fairly expensive and the economy would really be in the gutter if the price of beef (for example) rose to 50 dollars per pound and the meat turn out would not meet national demands. Even though organic meat does cost about 10-50% more than conventional meat, it hardly does ever come close to $50 per pound for beef. Also, the argument of quantity only works if the world's demand for low-quality, cheap and abudant meat is not curbed - otherwise, organic farming could easily replace conventional agriculture.
...no chance though. _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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SaZ - Student
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i remember this picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bison_skull_pile%2C_ca1870.png cmon lets just start killing every living creature especially lets go and make human hunting official and recommended activity already. it sounds so right. i couldnt watch the whole video tbh... _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana This comment was edited by SaZ on Mar 28 2007 11:35am. |
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Laziana - Jedi Instructor 
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Ah... this video is gross.
I mean, I personally don't have a problem that those people eat dolphin meat. For I love a good beef stake and in some countries the cow - for example - is a sacred animal. So I guess I can't blame or judge anyone for eating the meat of some animal, as I am doing to same. But what I really cannot accept is the way those animals are killed. Spiking them up and then let them just lay there while they fight for survival, that's just cruelty and nothing more. Greez, -Laz _______________ Proud owner of Buster Senatu's 200th & 300th, Muro's 370th, Maher's 2100th, Henkes' 1639th, Johauna's 400th, 666th and 900th, Sho Koon's 2000th and Kain Sol's 600th comment Download Laziana's lightsaber here! Glory to Arstozka! This comment was edited by Laziana on Mar 28 2007 08:26am. |
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Ash - Student |
I think your right, its just inhumane how these animals are killed, like many are. Its cruel and they suffer so much, i mean they are intelligent enough to know they are in danger, all animals are and knowing that you will be killed is sickening. These are intelligent animals, and they are disappearing very quickly. |
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Emlock - Student 
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opinions _______________ I hate stupid people. Yeah you. |
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Augusta_Mintaka - Student
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Most animal processing is inhumane and all of it needs to change for the better. The cost of humane processing of animals would be fairly expensive and the economy would really be in the gutter if the price of beef (for example) rose to 50 dollars per pound and the meat turn out would not meet national demands. I hate the fact things like that are happening to beings (some of which are very intelligent), but decisions cannot be based on morality, even if it's hypocritical.
Although dolphins seems to be more of a luxury food like veal. That in itself is wrong and just a plain waste. _______________ "Deos fortioribus adesse." |
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