| BREAKING NEWS: V-TECH KILLER SENDS PACKAGE TO NBC | |
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CuZzA - Student  |
NBC has just recieved a package from The V-Tech mass murderer (Cho Seung-Hui). The package was believed to have been sent during the 2 and a half hour time gap between the first 2 killings and the other 30+.
Click Here _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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El Vee For - Student 
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Quote: Comparison of an item that can be made in your home with an item that can be made in your home. Valid _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: Uhm, didn't I just say that? except that I said 'something will replace it' instead of 'they will make them at home'? No need to contradict me here.
I took that as meaning knives, swords or sharp pointy sticks. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Wolfwood - Student 
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Quote: Actually not true. You destroy all the guns and you will have accomplished essentially nothing. Guns can be manufactured in a home with materials anyone can legally acquire. They'd be crude implements, probably not even on the level of late 18th century weaponry, but hey you've gotten rid of all the other guns so you don't really need technological advancements to be the big dog in the yard now. America once tried banning something deemed dangerous to society that people can make in their homes. It was a complete and utter failure. Uhm, didn't I just say that? except that I said 'something will replace it' instead of 'they will make them at home'? No need to contradict me here. _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ This comment was edited by Wolfwood on May 01 2007 01:21am. |
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Hardwired - Retired 
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I would like to remind people to post things that contribute to the debate at hand. Smart remarks end up in a place we do not what this to end up.
- HW _______________ ::Nothing wrong with a little shooting.....as long as the right people get shot:: |
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Buzz - Student 
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Comparison of an item that can be made in your home with an item that can be made in your home. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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El Vee For - Student 
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Quote: Buzz lost when he first posted, yet he doesn't realise.
Check my sig.. And he'll probably ban me for expressing my opinion aswell  _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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El Vee For - Student
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Quote: America once tried banning something deemed dangerous to society that people can make in their homes. It was a complete and utter failure. ROFL
<comparison of modern gun control with prohibition> Less guns more booze!! Yay Democracy!! _______________ “Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.” |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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omg, the JA has a black panther-like group! except instead of angry black dudes, its a group of idiots  |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: 'But just because I don't know, doesn't mean its right to take away the guns from every single person on the street'
You know that im not arguing for a complete ban on guns My point remains: you accuse the other side of the argument of labelling everyone as criminals, but you are doing just the same I'm not doing the same. Not everyone is a criminal. Not everyone is a potential criminal. However, I cannot know who is and who isn't, even while acknowledging that almost all aren't. But even despite not knowing who is a criminal I am advocating allowing citizens who are not criminals to have guns. They though are arguing that everyone is a potential criminal and thus you should punish them for a wrongdoing that they have never committed and probably never will. Quote: On a more serious note, guns are... well, guns are there . Not much you can do about it. My opinion on guns is that they should all be collected, destroyed and completely forgotten. However, that will simply mean we will kill eachother with knives or sticks, or whatever object we can find. Point is, you can ban guns, remove them, destroy them but the only thing that will happen is that something else will replace them.
Actually not true. You destroy all the guns and you will have accomplished essentially nothing. Guns can be manufactured in a home with materials anyone can legally acquire. They'd be crude implements, probably not even on the level of late 18th century weaponry, but hey you've gotten rid of all the other guns so you don't really need technological advancements to be the big dog in the yard now. America once tried banning something deemed dangerous to society that people can make in their homes. It was a complete and utter failure. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Alex Dkana - Staff 
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Quote:
Quote:
Just imagine if we had lightsabers instead of guns!
 then there would be lots of dark jedi... There would be a lot of killers certainly, both accidental and otherwise. _______________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield | Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken | Rhaiko D'kana - SWTOR EU Guild Co-Founder | Is it what the teacher, teaches? Or what the student learns? A Dkana |
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SaZ - Student 
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Quote: Just imagine if we had lightsabers instead of guns!
then there would be lots of dark jedi... _______________ playing jk3 since 30th of january (2005), member since 1st of february. [Unofficial Master to Vision and Z�diac ] If you can make a fool of yourself infront of 300 people you can do anything - Jaiko D'kana |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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Quote: Buzz lost when he first posted, yet he doesn't realise.
And he'll probably ban me for expressing my opinion aswell Fight the power! _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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Zack - Student 
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Just imagine if we had lightsabers instead of guns! _______________ You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try. |
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CuZzA - Student 
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Buzz lost when he first posted, yet he doesn't realise.
And he'll probably ban me for expressing my opinion aswell _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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Wolfwood - Student
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Just look at Southpark!
Guns 'r bad Mkay? there, heed that advice! On a more serious note, guns are... well, guns are there . Not much you can do about it. My opinion on guns is that they should all be collected, destroyed and completely forgotten. However, that will simply mean we will kill eachother with knives or sticks, or whatever object we can find. Point is, you can ban guns, remove them, destroy them but the only thing that will happen is that something else will replace them. I for one, am glad that guns are illegal in the Netherlands  _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ This comment was edited by Wolfwood on Apr 30 2007 07:30pm. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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'But just because I don't know, doesn't mean its right to take away the guns from every single person on the street'
You know that im not arguing for a complete ban on guns My point remains: you accuse the other side of the argument of labelling everyone as criminals, but you are doing just the same _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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Majno - Padawan 
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Quote: You don't like Buzz, we get it. Buzz gets it. Everyone gets it. Even before you posted in this thread. Totally random post, I like Buzz. and that he stands by his convictions and isn't afraid to speak them. This has been a good debated thread except for the few blueberrys here and there.
Rock on dudes! _______________ " You've just taken your first steps into a larger world. " - Ben. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: you've said
a) you're not psychic so you don't know who are and are not criminals out of a random bunch of people walking down the street so you have to have your gun at all times just incase one of them is and decides to attack your or something b) you dont assume that anyone is a criminal to me these two statements contradict each other. Hope for the Best Prepare for the Worst. Hope for the Best is your B. Preparing for the Worst is A. You are right that I don't know who could be a criminal. But just because I don't know, doesn't mean its right to take away the guns from every single person on the street, just so you can hope that maybe one crook got his gun. The likelihood is that you've only taken the guns away from the people who weren't a threat to begin with. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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well - from what i've read (only skimmed this page) its quiet simply a discussion on wether you can trust the public to have a weapon, and not use it - or wether to take the right away, for example if you let people have the rights to use a weapon simple for defence - you are giving them that weapon for criminal or non defencive uses. However if you change gun laws (as over here in the uk) to not being allowed to carry one on you (as far as i know lol) you are making it harder for someone to get there hand on one for criminal uses aswell - its quiet a matter of opinion and trust the goverment has in there people to use the guns for or again crime..
sorry if thts badly typed, im kinda just going and typing rather than making it all buffed out. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
This comment was edited by NotSoLittleCaesar on Apr 30 2007 03:50pm. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council
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you've said
a) you're not psychic so you don't know who are and are not criminals out of a random bunch of people walking down the street so you have to have your gun at all times just incase one of them is and decides to attack your or something b) you dont assume that anyone is a criminal to me these two statements contradict each other. sorry about not directly quoting but im being bad at school etc. As a side note, i don't think this discussion is going down the flame war route at all, infact i think its been quite productive to see the two different views and cultural differences which has only been hindered by condescending comments from one area...although personally i dont see what is wrong with being called a girl _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: It really is taking you a while to understand this, huh? I'm not calling them criminals, i'm calling them potential criminals
And I'm saying they're not potential criminals. Quote: "an increase in the number of guns will result in an increase in the risk of gun crimes."
An increase in the number of guns will result in the increase in chance of defending yourself from criminals. Quote: Nothing to justify limiting? How about the people across the US getting injured from gun accidents, and criminals who can buy a gun as easily as a carton of milk.
Sorry but gun accidents occur at about the same level or lower than accidental deaths with other household objects. And I don't need to pass an FBI background check to get a carton of milk. Quote: I acknowledge that guns can be and are used in defense, and that not all gun owners are irresponsible, but overall I think that allowing possession of guns can only worsen the situation
In other words you acknowledge their benefits but still want them banned because you don't like them. Quote: This was as I said an extreme case, but if you want to look at it that way I wonder whether US gun laws made it easier or harder for the killer to get hold of his two pistols
Failure of the system. Mental hospital should have labeled him a danger to society. Virginia gun law shouldn't allow people who are a danger to themselves the ability to get a gun. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Ventrel - Student 
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Quote: Well, when they are threatening me, or breaking into my home I would say the question of their criminality is answered. So if people aren't doing that they're not criminals.
It really is taking you a while to understand this, huh? I'm not calling them criminals, i'm calling them potential criminals. "Well, when they are threatening me, or breaking into my home I would say the question of their criminality is answered." Thats right, the question is always present. Quote: Correlation does not equal causation. Learn it. Attemtping to apply one standard to the whole of the world is also worthless
Im applying what standard to the whole of the world? Quote: And learn this too. What you are saying is not correct. No matter how much you wish it to be true, the number of gun owners is increasing in the US and the crimes don't reflect your beliefs of what should be happening.
"an increase in the number of guns will result in an increase in the risk of gun crimes." Quote: But it does. You believe everyone to be a potential criminal. As such you are wanting to limit the freedoms and liberties of individuals who have done nothing to justify limiting those liberties and freedoms.
Nothing to justify limiting? How about the people across the US getting injured from gun accidents, and criminals who can buy a gun as easily as a carton of milk. Quote: But it is. Tough luck.
Hey it's just my opinion, not like US gun law will affect me very much. Quote: No matter how much you want that to be true what is occuring in america doesn't support your belief.
Quote: I'm just stating my opinion that guns should be banned from the general public because they increase the risk of gun crimes. Quote: Just because you don't want your justification to be the exact same as people use to justify other things being banned doesn't mean its not true.
An 82 year old woman prevent criminals from robbing her because she had a gun. Can you honestly say that her gun didn't serve a good purpose because it wasn't in the hands of a cop? The police are not responsible for the safety of me or my family. The response time for the police means that I and any number of people could be killed before they get there. "gosh it was so good of the cops to get here in under 10 minutes. A shame everyone was killed though." I acknowledge that guns can be and are used in defense, and that not all gun owners are irresponsible, but overall I think that allowing possession of guns can only worsen the situation. Quote: Nice of you to have such trust in your government. 32 people placed their safety in the hands of the police and because of that they are dead.
This was as I said an extreme case, but if you want to look at it that way I wonder whether US gun laws made it easier or harder for the killer to get hold of his two pistols. Quote: Order of importance in the United States:
1) Constitution 2) Individual 3) Society When what is at the top is protected it guarrantees that what is below will be as well. Using this logic, how is it that so many people die of gun related crimes in the US? |
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Buzz - Student
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The context would be that from 1775 to 1783 they fought a war for independence against a government they decided no longer properly represented them. A war that the beginning battle occurred because of the redcoats plans to move into two towns and take the arms.
I would say that the context is that after just fighting and beating the former government of the land due to their ability to keep and bear arms they wanted to make sure that the people would be armed so if the government again no longer represented the people it could be overthrown and the power of the people restored. One more quote: "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." George Washington _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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You also need to take into the consideration the context that those quotes have come from. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: Moving swiftly on from the mongoloid below...
"Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and co-operation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace." -Dwight D. Eisenhower I ain't arguing with someone who saved the world. Unfortunately those emergencies can pop up a lot more than you would like. As I've said, its more about that one day where you might need a gun and could be without one than all those days you have a gun but never use it. And I don't want to argue with the men who founded the country that allowed him to do it: The Constitution shall never be construed ...to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. - Samuel Adams Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - Patrick Henry Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. -- John Adams A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms... - Richard Henry Lee When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have freedom. - Thomas Paine (bet you thought V for Vendetta came up with that line) Democracy is two Wolves and a Lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed Lamb contesting the vote. -- Benjamin Franklin _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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