| BREAKING NEWS: V-TECH KILLER SENDS PACKAGE TO NBC | |
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CuZzA - Student  |
NBC has just recieved a package from The V-Tech mass murderer (Cho Seung-Hui). The package was believed to have been sent during the 2 and a half hour time gap between the first 2 killings and the other 30+.
Click Here _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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Majno - Padawan 
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Quote: You don't like Buzz, we get it. Buzz gets it. Everyone gets it. Even before you posted in this thread. Totally random post, I like Buzz.  and that he stands by his convictions and isn't afraid to speak them. This has been a good debated thread except for the few blueberrys here and there.
Rock on dudes! _______________ " You've just taken your first steps into a larger world. " - Ben. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: you've said
a) you're not psychic so you don't know who are and are not criminals out of a random bunch of people walking down the street so you have to have your gun at all times just incase one of them is and decides to attack your or something b) you dont assume that anyone is a criminal to me these two statements contradict each other. Hope for the Best Prepare for the Worst. Hope for the Best is your B. Preparing for the Worst is A. You are right that I don't know who could be a criminal. But just because I don't know, doesn't mean its right to take away the guns from every single person on the street, just so you can hope that maybe one crook got his gun. The likelihood is that you've only taken the guns away from the people who weren't a threat to begin with. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student 
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well - from what i've read (only skimmed this page) its quiet simply a discussion on wether you can trust the public to have a weapon, and not use it - or wether to take the right away, for example if you let people have the rights to use a weapon simple for defence - you are giving them that weapon for criminal or non defencive uses. However if you change gun laws (as over here in the uk) to not being allowed to carry one on you (as far as i know lol) you are making it harder for someone to get there hand on one for criminal uses aswell - its quiet a matter of opinion and trust the goverment has in there people to use the guns for or again crime..
sorry if thts badly typed, im kinda just going and typing rather than making it all buffed out. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
This comment was edited by NotSoLittleCaesar on Apr 30 2007 03:50pm. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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you've said
a) you're not psychic so you don't know who are and are not criminals out of a random bunch of people walking down the street so you have to have your gun at all times just incase one of them is and decides to attack your or something b) you dont assume that anyone is a criminal to me these two statements contradict each other. sorry about not directly quoting but im being bad at school etc. As a side note, i don't think this discussion is going down the flame war route at all, infact i think its been quite productive to see the two different views and cultural differences which has only been hindered by condescending comments from one area...although personally i dont see what is wrong with being called a girl _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: It really is taking you a while to understand this, huh? I'm not calling them criminals, i'm calling them potential criminals
And I'm saying they're not potential criminals. Quote: "an increase in the number of guns will result in an increase in the risk of gun crimes."
An increase in the number of guns will result in the increase in chance of defending yourself from criminals. Quote: Nothing to justify limiting? How about the people across the US getting injured from gun accidents, and criminals who can buy a gun as easily as a carton of milk.
Sorry but gun accidents occur at about the same level or lower than accidental deaths with other household objects. And I don't need to pass an FBI background check to get a carton of milk. Quote: I acknowledge that guns can be and are used in defense, and that not all gun owners are irresponsible, but overall I think that allowing possession of guns can only worsen the situation
In other words you acknowledge their benefits but still want them banned because you don't like them. Quote: This was as I said an extreme case, but if you want to look at it that way I wonder whether US gun laws made it easier or harder for the killer to get hold of his two pistols
Failure of the system. Mental hospital should have labeled him a danger to society. Virginia gun law shouldn't allow people who are a danger to themselves the ability to get a gun. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Ventrel - Student 
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Quote: Well, when they are threatening me, or breaking into my home I would say the question of their criminality is answered. So if people aren't doing that they're not criminals.
It really is taking you a while to understand this, huh? I'm not calling them criminals, i'm calling them potential criminals. "Well, when they are threatening me, or breaking into my home I would say the question of their criminality is answered." Thats right, the question is always present. Quote: Correlation does not equal causation. Learn it. Attemtping to apply one standard to the whole of the world is also worthless
Im applying what standard to the whole of the world? Quote: And learn this too. What you are saying is not correct. No matter how much you wish it to be true, the number of gun owners is increasing in the US and the crimes don't reflect your beliefs of what should be happening.
"an increase in the number of guns will result in an increase in the risk of gun crimes." Quote: But it does. You believe everyone to be a potential criminal. As such you are wanting to limit the freedoms and liberties of individuals who have done nothing to justify limiting those liberties and freedoms.
Nothing to justify limiting? How about the people across the US getting injured from gun accidents, and criminals who can buy a gun as easily as a carton of milk. Quote: But it is. Tough luck.
Hey it's just my opinion, not like US gun law will affect me very much. Quote: No matter how much you want that to be true what is occuring in america doesn't support your belief.
Quote: I'm just stating my opinion that guns should be banned from the general public because they increase the risk of gun crimes. Quote: Just because you don't want your justification to be the exact same as people use to justify other things being banned doesn't mean its not true.
An 82 year old woman prevent criminals from robbing her because she had a gun. Can you honestly say that her gun didn't serve a good purpose because it wasn't in the hands of a cop? The police are not responsible for the safety of me or my family. The response time for the police means that I and any number of people could be killed before they get there. "gosh it was so good of the cops to get here in under 10 minutes. A shame everyone was killed though." I acknowledge that guns can be and are used in defense, and that not all gun owners are irresponsible, but overall I think that allowing possession of guns can only worsen the situation. Quote: Nice of you to have such trust in your government. 32 people placed their safety in the hands of the police and because of that they are dead.
This was as I said an extreme case, but if you want to look at it that way I wonder whether US gun laws made it easier or harder for the killer to get hold of his two pistols. Quote: Order of importance in the United States:
1) Constitution 2) Individual 3) Society When what is at the top is protected it guarrantees that what is below will be as well. Using this logic, how is it that so many people die of gun related crimes in the US? |
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Buzz - Student
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The context would be that from 1775 to 1783 they fought a war for independence against a government they decided no longer properly represented them. A war that the beginning battle occurred because of the redcoats plans to move into two towns and take the arms.
I would say that the context is that after just fighting and beating the former government of the land due to their ability to keep and bear arms they wanted to make sure that the people would be armed so if the government again no longer represented the people it could be overthrown and the power of the people restored. One more quote: "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." George Washington _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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R2D2 - Staff 
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You also need to take into the consideration the context that those quotes have come from. _______________ "Do or do not, there is no try" Jedi Master Yoda Dual Saberist |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: Moving swiftly on from the mongoloid below...
"Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and co-operation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace." -Dwight D. Eisenhower I ain't arguing with someone who saved the world. Unfortunately those emergencies can pop up a lot more than you would like. As I've said, its more about that one day where you might need a gun and could be without one than all those days you have a gun but never use it. And I don't want to argue with the men who founded the country that allowed him to do it: The Constitution shall never be construed ...to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. - Samuel Adams Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - Patrick Henry Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. -- John Adams A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms... - Richard Henry Lee When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have freedom. - Thomas Paine (bet you thought V for Vendetta came up with that line) Democracy is two Wolves and a Lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed Lamb contesting the vote. -- Benjamin Franklin _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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Kenwan, your first comment on this thread saw you taking a shot at Buzz, then patronizing pretty much everyone else who has posted in it (barring Menaxia and Lirael):
Quote: Buzz v1.0 (and co): Childish bickering at a place near YOU
Come on girls, keep it clean  Im not quite sure what you were trying to achieve with that, to be honest. You are in no position of authority here (and I'm not suggesting that you think you are or anything), so I'm assuiming that you were trying to joke around with the "Come on girls" bit - but in order for something like that to be funny, you have to know people pretty well and be friends with them for them to get it. As it stands, it just looked like you were trying to be spiteful and elevate yourself above everyone else. May not have been your intention, but that's how it came accross. Same with the "Come on children...and Buzz" comment. You are not more mature or intelligent than everyone else here, this is a fact. You are also a Student (at the JA), the same as almost everyone else who has posted, so talking down to them isn't fair, appreciated or funny. This thread isn't an argument, it's a debate. People like Buzz aren't trying to change anything, the reason people are posting is because they are explaining why it is they feel the way they do about their rights and the rights of others, and their thoughts on the opinions of the other posters. You don't like Buzz, we get it. Buzz gets it. Everyone gets it. Even before you posted in this thread. You're probably thinking that Buzz needs to be making a good impression because he's a JAC, and that he should be trying to be a role-model, be nice to people, be diplomatic about everything and take some responsibility regarding his role in the JA and not express his opinions like he has. Well to be honest mate, it's not Buzz's job to do that, it's mine. Buzz is the cheif of security, he deals with troublemakers, bannings of those who have broken the rules, keeps our Server passwords in check so that randomers don't show up or leaks don't get far, monitors applications, IPs and hotmasks so that offenders don't have the opportunity to rejoin after being banned and cause more unrest aswell as other, usual duties that we all have as JACs. And you know what? He does a damned good job, aswell. You don't have to like him, heck, you don't have to like any of us. It's not in the rules that you have to like the JAK+. But Buzz has just as much right to express his own personal opinions and beliefs as anyone else and to try to suggest that he shouldn't because he is an administrator is more than unfair. Buzz can be a little overly sarcastic at times but so can all of us, including me. The fact that he is a JAC is irrelevent. Not once has he ever threatened to ban someone, or even mention the fact that he is an admin to anyone who has disagreed with his personal opinion or doesn't like him. Not once. Your comments on this thread however have been patronizing, egotistical, disrepectful, self-elevated and rude to more people than just Buzz - and that actually is a rule violation on your part. Have a look back through the last few comments, even the people who have outrightly disputed Buzz's views still didn't appreciate your comments and have stated such. Quote: What is more to the point is that it's still pretty pathetic. You're BLATENTLY getting touchy over sucb a petty issue of which you can't really affect/change anyway... Again, you are calling all posters in this thread pathetic for a reason which is irrelevent. Again, no one is trying to change anything, they are merely explaining why they feel the way they do about the laws and rights that are in place, and they are well within their own rights to do so. It's not pathetic. Again, I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve by saying what you said in your posts, but please realise that it has pretty much turned this thread into what you were telling people (in a condescending way) to avoid in the first place. So please, refrain from doing this as you're not helping anything, not even slightly. And as a general statement to everyone: Let's try to avoid resorting to personal jibes in this thread because we're running out of points to make from here on, yes? 
- Virtue.  _______________ Academy Architect |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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Moving swiftly on from the mongoloid below...
"Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and co-operation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace." -Dwight D. Eisenhower I ain't arguing with someone who saved the world. |
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Kenwan Obiobi - Student |
Quote: Kenwan, deleting offensive posts and replacing them with less objectional ones is really cowardly. If you have something to say, be a man and say it.
 Did that now did I? Care to...explain what posts they were? Because i sure as hell have no memory of them. Shut up if you haven't got anything to say which even REMOTELY makes any sense chap
Ssssh... |
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planK - Jedi Council
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Kenwan, deleting offensive posts and replacing them with less objectional ones is really cowardly. If you have something to say, be a man and say it. |
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Buzz - Student
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Because believing we're in a civilized society where everyone is happy and there are no dangers to your personal safety so there is no need for a gun is a fantasy world. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Kenwan Obiobi - Student |
Quote:
Quote:
I've also belittled no one.
Quote: Living in a fantasy world is so nice, isn't it?
Yes, you have. Both quotes are from this thread. Touché... |
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Kenyon - Lord of the Dance 
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Quote: I've also belittled no one.
Quote: Living in a fantasy world is so nice, isn't it?
Yes, you have. Both quotes are from this thread. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: How about they explain why I should not be allowed to protect myself, how I choose to.’
No one is saying you shouldn’t protect yourself, simply that there are other means. As for how you choose to, I’d let you choose any way you like as long as it doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others, as I think more widespread gun ownership might. In the words of the Utilitarian JS Mill ‘ your right to punch me ends at the start of my nose’ ‘Because I don't need to protect myself from everyone’ Then why do you need the right to carry a gun everywhere at all times? ‘Can you tell me who has given me the right to carry my gun?’ Since im not so sure you have a right, I couldn’t tell you, sorry. My carrying of a gun does not infringe on the rights of others. For your example from the utilitarian, just because I have fists doesn't mean I'm going to punch him in the face. And why do I need to carry a gun at all times? That's very simple. I'm not psychic. I might never need to use a gun for protection ever, but there also might be that one day where I would need it to protect myself. That'd really suck if that was the day I decided not to bring a gun along wouldn't it? And we'll save some semantic discussion about your indecision on my right to have a gun. I'm in the United States, I have the right to carry a gun. Who gave me that right? _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Buzz - Student
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Sticking smileys behind your insults doesn't stop it from being an insult kenwan. It just makes it a smug insult by someone who thinks he's being clever. And frankly its getting old real fast. You were allowed to come back because you claimed you changed, and everyday its becoming painfully obvious that you haven't.
I know you wish everyone in the world could all just get along and never have any disagreements. That would be so wonderful if people were all to stupid to decide that there were different ways of doing things. I've not exploited anyone's views on the subject as you apparently think. I've also belittled no one. Using phrases like 'childish bickering' 'you're a funny boy' 'chap' calling something 'pathetic' 'sweetheart' that's belittling. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Kenwan Obiobi - Student |
I didn't start the fire. It was always burning as the world was turning. |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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omg I am so overwhelmed by how utterly cool Kenwan is. Seriously. He's so edgy, and funny, and cool, and omg I think I just peed!
Seriously. Yikes, dude. |
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NotSoLittleCaesar - Student
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Kenwan - if i was you, i wouldnt add fuel to the fire.. _______________ Quote: I mostly agree oh Lord of the squeezy mop
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Kenwan Obiobi - Student |
Awwww sweetheart...Does this mean we're finished? |
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Menaxia - Student 
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There's a difference between not tip-toeing and bashing every chance you get.
Kenwan - go be a wanker some place else. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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i find it funny people tip toe around buzz  _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Kenwan Obiobi - Student |
Quote: Nope. I don't feel the need to. That doesn't mean I don't have the right though. And my right to own a gun is not predicated on my desire to own one.
And Kenwan, if you're not going to say anything constructive, then don't come in here commenting on what you wanting us to do. I haven't seen anyone in here complaining about "arguing" You're a funny boy
Lol i couldn't give a crap if no one else has complained about it. What is more to the point is that it's still pretty pathetic. You're BLATENTLY getting touchy over sucb a petty issue of which you can't really affect/change anyway...it's not just you...but you seem to want to exploit EVERYone's views on the subject...which is quite sad really . Just because someone else has an opinion...it doesn't mean you have to belittle them all the time. What am i expecting you to say from this? Little fragmented 'quotes' of parts of what i've said...in exactly or similar layout as to the structure of your comments below? Probably...but then again, it's totally fair to say that this Bee doesn't like other opinions apart from his own ...
"I AM right!!!111" Lighten up chap. This subject is going no where...apart from down the quite sad route of arguing? *WAVE* Show a smile! Hug a Buzz!!!
This comment was edited by Kenwan Obiobi on Apr 29 2007 05:33pm. |
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