| Conscription/national service/drafting | |
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planK - Jedi Council  |
Hey folks. As some of y'all may know, there's a bit of a recruitment crisis with the British Army at the moment. It's made a lot of folks, particularly in the service community, hope for the return of national service over here.
Now obviously folks will be dead set against it, but frankly I think it's a great thing. It'll help build character, and keep the yobs off the streets and put them to use. They'll also make a buck or two in the process. I know a few folks in the academy have a similar kind of service in their home country, and I was just wondering what you folks think of this thing.  |
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Jaina D'Kana - Jedi Instructor 
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Quote: People need to stop citing Michael Moore as a source. The guy is an absolute master of spin. And eating pies.
I hear he taught Tony Bliar _______________ INTP |
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JP - Academy Pimp 
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Fighting with Buzz when it comes to politics is like trying to win a fist fight with a break wall, sure you'll get to land your punches but they dont do shit except hurt yourself _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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planK - Jedi Council 
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People need to stop citing Michael Moore as a source. The guy is an absolute master of spin. And eating pies. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: Before I go into other things, I first want to say that the United States spends more than half of it's discretionary spending budget on funding the military, not GDP*
Let's forget about discretionary spending. The Total Budget is so much more interesting. http://www.thebudgetgraph.com/poster/ Its the bottom corner, and so so fascinating. Quote: the facts in Michael Moore's movies are overwhelmingly accurate
Facts, by the very definition of what they are, are accurate. The problem isn't Moore's facts. The problem is with the lies, half truths, editing tricks, deceits, misinformation, that he attempts to pass off as fact. Quote: But unfortunately (for all of us), and according to reports released by our own CIA, Iraq has become a breeding ground for terrorism
And most places when they are being honest after stating that will point out that our leaving would make it even WORSE. There's also the fact that a lot of those groups that were once fighting us in Iraq, are now fighting with us to kick out the foreign terrorists. Quote: I suspect that you might be one of the ever-diminishing percentage (41%) of Americans still clinging to the disproved belief that Saddam Hussein had strong links to Al Qaeda.
Strong links? no. Links to Al Qaeda, yes absolutely. If you didn't spend time reading talking points memos you'd know that as well. Quote: Or worse, that Saddam Hussein actually helped plan or finance the terrorist attacks of 9/11 (22%),
No those people are just uninformed. Of course you probably believe that because he didn't finance 9/11 he had no connections at all to terror groups, nevermind that he was paying the families of palestinian suicide bombers. Quote: or worse that the weapons of mass destruction which supposedly justified the war were, in fact, real (26%).
The UN had a list of what Saddam had. It was known what he had, and he was required to allow them to verify that these were destroyed. No verification was given for a lot of it being destroyed. In the lead up to the invasion with Iraq a lot of fishy stuff was happening involving Iraq, Syria and some Russian Generals. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But you probably believe everything Moore said in F9/11 is actually true. So pointing you to real information would be an exercise in futility. Quote: which for starters could be used to enact some of the measures recommended by the 9/11 commission report which we currently don't do (for lack of funding.) Article.
Something the democrats promised to do if they were given control of congress. Yet afterwards they changed their minds and still have not yet done this. Quote: I was not talking about economic sanctions, which by their nature take money away
I know you weren't. You're talking about playing suck boy to a bunch of people that hate us and our allies. You want to decrease military spending. Fine, let's pull out of Germany, Kosovo, South Korea, Japan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait. Let's stop using the military to engage in humanitarian missions. All that aid we sent to the pacific tsunami via the Navy, gone. Quote: vast increases in Katrina relief and rebuilding efforts.
Mississippi doesn't seem to need any extra increases in Katrina relief and building effort. Oh that's right they're not run by a corrupt disfunctional government like Louisiana and New Orleans are. For someone who believes michael moore is honest, taking anything else you say seriously would be an insult. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This comment was edited by Buzz on Jul 10 2007 05:36pm. |
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JP - Academy Pimp 
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Quote: /me sits down with some popcorn and one of those cute little choc-top icecreams
/me takes a seat and steals some of Dane's popcorn _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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sm00th! - Student 
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*Before I go into other things, I first want to say that the United States spends more than half of it's discretionary spending budget on funding the military, not GDP*
Quote: Using ANY information coming from a Michael Moore project, is like using me as an unbiased source for views on the Democratic Party.
I am not quite sure what this is even supposed to mean, since I don't offhandedly know your party affiliation. However, the facts in Michael Moore's movies are overwhelmingly accurate, as documented by the vast majority of mainstream media articles on the subject. Here is CNN's. Quote: Because attacks on our embassies, Naval vessels, and flying planes into buildings occurred only after the Iraq invasion. And they just couldn't recruit people to this cause beforehand.
I have to concede to your correctness on this straw-man-esque point - the invasion of Iraq did not predate the invention of terrorism. It did, however, predate the seven-fold increase in fatal Jihadist attacks worldwide since 2001. See Graph. Again, you are so devastatingly correct in stating that before the Iraq war, terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda were able to recruit members. But unfortunately (for all of us), and according to reports released by our own CIA, Iraq has become a breeding ground for terrorism. Article I suspect that you might be one of the ever-diminishing percentage (41%) of Americans still clinging to the disproved belief that Saddam Hussein had strong links to Al Qaeda. Or worse, that Saddam Hussein actually helped plan or finance the terrorist attacks of 9/11 (22%), or worse that the weapons of mass destruction which supposedly justified the war were, in fact, real (26%). Article. If this is the case, I cannot help you deal with your obstinate resistance to facts. Fortunately, we can all take solace in the knowledge that yours is a continually slimming minority, and hope for the best in 2008. Quote: If half of our GDP is spent on the military, then how does the government spend almost double that money on Social Security and Health and Human services?
These facts are wrong also, but so was my original ones, so I won't bother combating them directly. Rather, anybody interested in obtaining an educated perspective would be advised to read the wikipedia article here in which it states that Military spending accounts for more than half of government discretionary spending. For more analysis, check here and note that while spending as a percentage of GDP spiked drastically in 1945 and has since diminished, Military spending as a part of discretionary spending remained almost stable between then and now. Quote: Yes because economic sanctions did a bang up job removing Saddam from power. And sanctions are really making the Iranians reconsider their nuclear enrichment. And refusal to deal with Hamas has gotten them to revoke their pledge of the destruction of Israel.
You are so very correct, yet again - economic sanctions did virtually (actually) nothing at removing Saddam from power. Unfortunately (for you (again)), economic sanctions were never intended to remove Saddam from power. They were, however, intended to prevent Saddam from obtaining the capabilities necessary to wage war or create WMD's. In this role, as I'm sure you'll disagree with the 74% percent of us who didn't see WMD's unveiled en-mass after the invasion, they did an OK job. However, let me step backwards slightly, because it seems that you failed to understand my original point, so I will speak more slowly, to try to make it more clear for you. I was not talking about economic sanctions, which by their nature take money away. Rather, my point was that $1.2 Trillion dollars is alot of green, and that much money can buy a lot of love. Alternatively, if we didn't want to spend the money of love, we could alternatively have spent it to: double cancer research, a global immunization campaign that would save, rather than destroy, millions of lives, or treatment of every American citizen faced with untreated diabetes or heart conditions, universal free pre-school education for 3 and 4 year old children, vast increases in Katrina relief and rebuilding efforts. We would still have enough money left over to vastly increase the money spent on national security, which for starters could be used to enact some of the measures recommended by the 9/11 commission report which we currently don't do (for lack of funding.) Article. When looked at from this angle, it becomes almost ludicrous that we are spending this much money to fund such a destructive war. And with that, I would like to leave you all with buzz's final quote, pertaining to the only benefit his limited vision can realize, regarding mandatory military service. Gentlemen, please forgive his obtuseness. Quote: The only benefit to not having mandatory service in the US is that our soldiers know that the guys next to them chose of their own free will to be there. _______________ Go Ahead, Enlighten Yourself. |
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Rinzler - Student 
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/me sits down with some popcorn and one of those cute little choc-top icecreams _______________ I fite for teh usars!1 |
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Buzz - Student
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Using ANY information coming from a Michael Moore project, is like using me as an unbiased source for views on the Democratic Party.
Quote: It seems likely that the effect of America's current war will be the spread of the very terrorism that ostensibly caused it.
Because attacks on our embassies, Naval vessels, and flying planes into buildings occurred only after the Iraq invasion. And they just couldn't recruit people to this cause beforehand. Quote: Take a moment and consider that the United States historically spends more than half of its GDP on maintaining its military, leaving only smaller fractions of revenue pointed at sore spots on the home front
If half of our GDP is spent on the military, then how does the government spend almost double that money on Social Security and Health and Human services? Quote: Gravel postulated that we could have solved any middle eastern problems we may have had prior to the outbreak of war economically, and I have to agree with him on this issue.
Yes because economic sanctions did a bang up job removing Saddam from power. And sanctions are really making the Iranians reconsider their nuclear enrichment. And refusal to deal with Hamas has gotten them to revoke their pledge of the destruction of Israel. The only benefit to not having mandatory service in the US is that our soldiers know that the guys next to them chose of their own free will to be there. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This comment was edited by Buzz on Jul 10 2007 01:39am. |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
/prepares for the onslaught of anti-michael moore sentiment _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade 
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey 
Jools is my best friend. 
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID |
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sm00th! - Student
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Everything you guys have said about military service sounds great: job training, improved job prospects, paid education. The only thing that doesn't sound quite so appetizing is the military service itself.
In the recent film "sicko," a commenter made a great point - "If we can have full employment in times of war, why shouldn't we be able to have full employment in times of peace?" It seems likely that the effect of America's current war will be the spread of the very terrorism that ostensibly caused it. Take a moment and consider that the United States historically spends more than half of its GDP on maintaining its military, leaving only smaller fractions of revenue pointed at sore spots on the home front - pesky leeches on our budget like our system of free k-12 education or social security. Democratic presidential candidate Mike Gravel postulated that we could have solved any middle eastern problems we may have had prior to the outbreak of war economically, and I have to agree with him on this issue. Sorry for the ramblage. In response to your original question, I hope you can understand that I would be strongly opposed to any kind of mandatory military service in the United States. _______________ Go Ahead, Enlighten Yourself. |
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Rinzler - Student
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meep meep *runs* _______________ I fite for teh usars!1 |
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Jade Jedi - Retired 
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/loads sack. Now where did I put Danes address? _______________ *CLICKEH->Never risk the Fett Man|*Download my Saber here. Made by master craftsman Pink Floyd_Mintaka + his 2002 & 4000 comment's [Laz's 700th comment][BDKawika's 600th comment] & Owner of a TOWEL award!!|Master: Sared Padawans: Rage-Ball and Dante Eagle.|*Jade Jedi at The Jedi Academy Archives "There's only one Return and it's not of the King it's of the Jedi" Randal Clerks 2 The top 10 reasons why I procrastinate: 1. |
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Rinzler - Student
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yeah well i got a solution for anders gunderson and i call it skipping town, BAMF!@
EDIT: on topic i think they should recruit chavs with a sack full of doorknobs in the middle of the night, if you've got enough time on your hands to walk the streets at night and harass people you've got enough time to defend your country. (honest hardworking/student types should be exempt from doorknob recruitment) *dances* _______________ I fite for teh usars!1 This comment was edited by Rinzler on Jul 08 2007 07:28am. |
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Kaldør - Student 
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A friend of mine from Norway, Anders Gundersen, was drafted last february. He's a marksman now. He enjoys it, but he doesn't want a full life of the service, nor should he have to have it. If war breaks out, he MUST stay with the army 'til he's 40  |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
dude, buzz - relax. i know you're not interested in being diplomatic but im sure there are better ways of telling shar hes hair-brained without saying an entire country is worthless "just cos hes in it". you're blatant and frank and i get that, but stop being a prick _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey
Jools is my best friend.
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID |
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JP - Academy Pimp
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Going back on target...i think every person should (if fit for duty) have to serve in the military. If they're not fit...do logistics or something while still gettin the snot beat out of you in boot camp. _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" This comment was edited by JP on Jul 07 2007 02:06am. |
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JP - Academy Pimp
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Quote: So be it .... American
thats right...kiss the rings biatch _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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Menaxia - Student 
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learn to drop things shar or you'll have no teeth left. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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Shar - Ex-Student 
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Quote:
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Well lets ask him.
Buzz what did you mean when you called sweden a worthless little country ? Any place where you call home would qualify as a worthless little country in my book. When dealing with you yes sweden is a worthless little country. If you were in England, that would be a worthless little country. Because I will be an "ignorant American" for a moment and say for the most part how the rest of the world acts and operates doesn't concern me one bit as long as its not affecting me here. But even if you were in the United States, I would check which state you were in and severely question the merits of that states educational system since they allowed you to slip through the cracks with such an obvious lack of cognitive skill. Because that's what it boils down to. You are either extremely brainless or just arguing for the sake of arguing. This thread is now going to go back to what it was designed for and that will be the end of your little antics here. So be it .... American _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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Buzz - Student
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Quote: Well lets ask him.
Buzz what did you mean when you called sweden a worthless little country ? Any place where you call home would qualify as a worthless little country in my book. When dealing with you yes sweden is a worthless little country. If you were in England, that would be a worthless little country. Because I will be an "ignorant American" for a moment and say for the most part how the rest of the world acts and operates doesn't concern me one bit as long as its not affecting me here. But even if you were in the United States, I would check which state you were in and severely question the merits of that states educational system since they allowed you to slip through the cracks with such an obvious lack of cognitive skill. Because that's what it boils down to. You are either extremely brainless or just arguing for the sake of arguing. This thread is now going to go back to what it was designed for and that will be the end of your little antics here. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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planK - Jedi Council
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Good God. They have not had more time. Jesus Christ are you really this thickheaded? They've got the SAME qualifications. My example would be in the military service wasn't even related to the job. That would probably mean that the military person is a bit older because they spent time in the military before going to school.
Once again, two people with the SAME qualifications except one has served, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, the one who served would probably get the job. All other things being equal ? Did this person serve while time was standing still ? Or does he simply not age ? Now you're nitpicking because you don't have half a bloody clue what you're talking about. Btw, I think what Buzz MEANT to say was that Sweden's military is not considered a major military force, unlike Canada, the UK, the US, Australia etc. Well lets ask him. Buzz what did you mean when you called sweden a worthless little country ? He meant Shar, just shut up and go away, nobody gives two hoots what you say, and you have the credibility of a Nazi in a synagogue. Please oblige! Many thanks, cheerio! |
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JP - Academy Pimp
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Quote: Well lets ask him.
Buzz what did you mean when you called sweden a worthless little country ? cause your freakin worthless _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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Menaxia - Student 
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place your bets place your bets - how many more posts before we get an official abyss stamp!! _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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Shar - Ex-Student 
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Quote:
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Good God. They have not had more time. Jesus Christ are you really this thickheaded? They've got the SAME qualifications. My example would be in the military service wasn't even related to the job. That would probably mean that the military person is a bit older because they spent time in the military before going to school.
Once again, two people with the SAME qualifications except one has served, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, the one who served would probably get the job. All other things being equal ? Did this person serve while time was standing still ? Or does he simply not age ? Now you're nitpicking because you don't have half a bloody clue what you're talking about. Btw, I think what Buzz MEANT to say was that Sweden's military is not considered a major military force, unlike Canada, the UK, the US, Australia etc. Well lets ask him. Buzz what did you mean when you called sweden a worthless little country ? _______________ Bored of Psu Back to Gw I apologise in advance to all the people that will take offense to me saying my opinion. |
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JP - Academy Pimp
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*moves seat and popcorn to this thread* _______________ Come on now, every Generation X boy wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Is it because he was a whiney farm boy from some backwater hack planet? No, it's because he was a FREAKING JEDI. He could block lasers with his lightsaber. He could levitate droids & rocks & crap with his mind. Come on, he choked two pig dudes with just a simple gesture. He cut off Darth Vader's hand and kicked him down a flight of stairs. He got his @$$ zapped by lightning from the geezer Emperor, stood up and said "s'at all you got b!tc#??" |
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