| Knocked down opponents | |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired  |
it came to my attetion that some guys do not agree with attack knocked down opponents after saber locks or kicks. they say it would be "dirty" and unhonourable.
my personal opininion is that it's not nice from the role play aspect but from a gamer's point of you i don't get why it should be unfair. you can avoid damage is 80% of the cases by jumpin up again fast (hold down jump). keep in mind that you weren't allowed to do kick DFAs at all then (it is requested in the jman trial!). but i'm willing to change my mind if the majority agrees that attacking a knocked down opponent shall be stoped due to aspect of beeing respectfull and honourable. so please leave a note what YOU think! 
but if so, everybody should agree, because i dont see the point of waiting for a knocked down player to stand up, just to get killed by a fast lunge, if you understand what i mean  _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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FireFreeze - Ex-Student |
I personally think that you should be allowed to hit someone knocked down from a saber lock but not a kick. I get really annoyed at people that overuse kick. I think its fine to use kick once a game or so, but anymore than that and no skill is involved, its not fun for the other player, and generally not honourable. A saber lock, you have won, and by that I say gain the right to hit them if down. |
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Mikel Rider - Student 
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Well, the whole point of saber locks is to knock your opponent and maybe change the tide of battle. It is not dishonorable to hit them after they are down, you have gained the right to do so by winning the lock, as long as you did not cheat to do so.
I would say hitting when down is ok as long as you only do it once. Even if you miss. If you do it more your opponent can hang it over your head, you only wone because you hit me three times when I was down, ect. "The darkness is spreading." _______________ Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation. |
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Master Lew - Student 
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I have posted this in other threads, but it is worth repeating.
Quite an interesting discussion. To hit or not to hit, that is the question. In Tae Kwon Do, which I teach, hitting an opponent when they are down is part of the finishing move. You have created the opportunity to knock them down and controlling the aggression by using a finishing move. Depending on the circumstances, you will either run away, restrain them, or incapacitate them. Using the above analogy: JK2 is just a game with the end result of a duel being that one of the duelers died. Knowing this is the outcome of a duel, taking advantage of every opportunity that you create or that is given to you, should be exploited. You can't be restrained in a duel, so that option is out. I have never seen a duel end after someone was knocked down after a saber-lock, so that option of running away is out. So that leaves incapacitation. Hit them with your best shot. You might not get another chance.
P.S. There is a skill move to neutralize a saber-lock and not get knocked down. I know it and will leave it up to you to discover it, for now. Later on I will share it. _______________ Brick Assassin for Hire Here, have a brick! 
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GremReaper - Student 
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Most of the time I don't win the saberlocks, but that okay. I like the saberlocks it make the duels fun. If you attack me when I am down, I won't be mad. I just have to learn how to counteract the move. Like getting up faster or something else. If I don't want to be in a lock. I know how to end the lock with out anyone getting knock down. That way I control the duel.
So about the attacking your guy when he is down after a lock. A very HOT topic. More and likly I would. But I will not attack with DFA. That is just not fair. I still want the duel to be a good one. _______________ Xfire--kdgremreaper |
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Jigsawcity - Ex-Student 
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haemonz rite, i aint guna be all, sorry fur jizzin ur teeshirt while they guta solid beama energy ready to left+left+attck as soon as they get up. THem falling down is an oppertunity. takit. _______________ Turmoil, pain, dissention... Can you feel it? That is why I am here. It is you who take my hand, and lift me up above those who envy. |
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p][ke - Ex-Student ![p][ke](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=66&f_image=pike.jpg&f_odd=1)
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I guess they they are useful because they are fun sometimes. They add a different kind of tension to a duel. Instead of having your mind racing thinking of your next tactical move, your mind is blank and it is purely a contest of strength.
As for bowing to someone letting you get up after a lock, I do that always, ever since the first time I watched someone else do it in a duel. It just felt very right. However I wouldn't do it as the winner of the lock. When I bow as the winner, it is to acknowledge the respect when the opponent bows. I feel it is the loser's responsibility to be a good sport. It's the same way I feel about saying GF. When the winner tells you GF, it feels... proud, condescending. |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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good point qaerion... what is the difference between sabering someone after he misses a dfa and sabering someone who fell because you kicked him? the opponent is disabled in both instances by something you have learned to do: either evade a dfa or get in a kick.
for the saber lock on the other hand, there is no skill involved, so move back and let the guy get up. why aren't these disabled anyway? _______________ make install -not war |
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Qaerion - Ex-Student |
I never attack someone who has been knocked down by a saber lock. The winner of a lock always boils down to ping time, so a victory gained by pressing that advantage would not rest on my own skill; however, I do not hold back when an opponent falls from a kick. Falling from a kick is a purely tactical vulnerability, no different from being frozen after a special move. |
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SacredFox - Ex-Student |
well.. they bow yet when u fall they stab you? I have been slapped for not bowing, a show of might, I admit I am subtil in my ways. But I have never full blown disrespected anyone. JAT eclipse you are no Jedi, but deep inside like me. With all the scripters out there who hide behind force push should not be allowed to hit when a person falls. For that is more disrespect then not bowing. This comment was edited by SacredFox on Jan 12 2003 03:51pm. |
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anoxia - Ex-Student |
I don't really care. But when i knock down people or kick them, I step back. I can't see why it would be against the roleplay to attack them, since siths are kinda evil twards who will do anything to kill the opponent.
It's like the question of kicking, really. It's effective, but not THAT effective, and everybody can do it, so it's not a bug/cheat... Let people play the way they wanna play |
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Vaughn - Student 
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I just have to comment on Buzz's learning duel - if your learning, your opponent could do a move to knock you down, you could learn how to get up faster! :p. Just a thought _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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heh, i had another problem today 
i beat someone in a saber lock and let him get up. he was actually a very honourable player and bowed. i bowed back and we kept going. next duel, same happened, and my opponent did NOT bow. but kinda reflex *I* bowed. i realised he did not, felt pretty stupid, and started a lunge to go on with the duel. but, for some reason, my opponent bowed! too late, my lunge killed him. everyone screamed and shouted at me, and i felt pretty bad. so even beeing polite and let somebody get up can have it's dangers :/ but on the other hand, it felt really cool when the first guy bowed to me, for not killing him
to bring this topic to a solution, my decision out of this is: -i will not kill saberlocked-fallen opponents, but only bow to them if they do
-i will keep killing after a kick, because this is a matter of skill and there are enough counters to it -i will keep doing kick DFAs, but propably one in a month becuase it's not safe enough -i will accept all ways of handeling the situation of others (they may kill me after a lock if they want) beside whining after a kick-downed kill
maybe some guys agree wih me, or post tehre one decisions
P.S. when i lnow my opponent is low on HP in a lock, i do everything to win. why? cuz i just LOVE the animation of the cut hand!  _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Oh, I'm not annoyed when they stand still, it's just an easy shot for me to hit them, and I just don't like taking easy shots.
I stop and walk sometimes too, but I never stop completely becuase that gives a wide open shot, at lest I think so. And yes, yo can stand still and counter me. Maybe another reason I fake. So, our conclusion, is that Kick-DFAs are kinda skillful, so OK. Saber-lock DFAs really are cheap, but some people still use them. I just think that if you need to resort to cheap moves to beat me, you are admitting that you are already the loser of the duel. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Silencio - Student 
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when my opponent stands still I usually roll behind the to get them moving... works pretty good _______________ Second-in-command of the mighty FiZZsters |
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p][ke - Ex-Student ![p][ke](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=66&f_image=pike.jpg)
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Like it has been mentioned, saberlocks take fairly little skill to win, it's a matter of being born with a twitchy finger. Actually I know some people who have added extra buttons to their mouse that rapid fire, so they can fire the semi-auto pistols in counterstrike at impossible speed. I'm sure it'd work for saberlocks too.
Yes, saberlocks are in the game, but you know what? There is a option to disable it, I think this shows that even the developers recognize that locks can be seen as cheap, but it is mostly personal taste wether you wish to take advantage of locks. And Ulic: sometimes I stand still and wait for my opponent because I am tired of chasing them around the mat =) |
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Aron - Retired 
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there's my point. I believe obi wan would have let darth get up, however, darth would kill obi wan at any chance. This is the same in the game, and i wouldnt blame anyone for attacking me on the ground, but i still wouldnt..
Most of the time when i play JK2, i dont give a rat's ass about score, unless i would be playing a match, which i don't, since i simply don't have the time for it. Every duel i fight is one to learn from, winning a duel does not make you a better fighter per definition. This comment was edited by Aron on Jan 06 2003 06:35am. |
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Kueller - Student 
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Well. There are some guys who intentionally make saberlocks. Because they are very good at winning them. If they do it all the time, you don't get to fighting. You only get knocked down and sliced up, not much fun in that isn't there. Anyway I agree with the comment below completely, the 2 types of duels. Just think about it as if you are alive. Would Obi1 have waited to slice Darth Maul if he fell. That's my point. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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Buzz - Student 
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Well I think there are really two types of duels around here. Duel to learn and duel to win. Now if you are in a duel to learn, I can see not hitting someone when they are down because that's more or less a simple tactic that you figure out day one playing. Now if you are in a duel to win, that's anything goes use all tactics to win. Saberlocks are something that might only occur once in 5 duels or 5 times in one duel depending on how it goes. If I'm in a fight with ulic and know that I can't win by being nice and letting him get up, I'll move into kill. In a life or death situation, I'll choose life. If you go into a battle not planning to fight with everything you have to win, that's poor planning. You may not need to use it all but if you don't think you will, there's a surprise in store for you. Now if the only way you are able to win is with killing someone while knocked down, its time to learn more tactics than hoping you'll get the saberlock win.
By the way what are opinions about getting into saber locks when you are both low on health but you know you've got him beat....and he slices off your hand. Not exactly something you can argue about on that one is there _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Hmmm...
I ran into Learners that beat me simply because they knock me down out of saber locks, then attack. I simply never win saber locks. I know that I have more skill than hit-em-when-they-are-down tactics. If you strike when they are down, that just shows, in my mind, that you can't deal with me when I'm standing. If you CAN deal with me when I am standing, then fight that way. I also noticed that I throw out a lot of spoilers. What I mean by this is that I swing so that I intentionally miss. I do this when the opponent is standing still, waiting for my attack. I do not hit someone who poses no treat to me, by standing still. So I swing AT them, to get them to move, attack, and...DUEL!! So back to the hit-when-down... You people have learned WAY too much to use such things. Yes, I can win more fights if I do that, but that just means I suck badly enough that I have to use cheap moves to win. If I fall victim to cheap moves, well, I still win, because you are showing that you are weaker than I, and that you need to be cheap to win. If you aren't some weak, unskilled bastard, don't hit me when I am down. If you are a weak, unskilled bastard, then, fine do two things: Hit me when I am down, so you win sometimes. Track me down so I can teach you how to beat me without cheap moves. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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NofrikinfuN - Retired 
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I believe that Jedi Outcast is much more a game of skill than most gun games. You have to have a good combination of strategy and timing to win.
It is because of this that I, personally, don't agree with attacking out of a saber lock. A saber lock is a horrible button-mashing affair that causes much frustration to those of us slower with our clicking. (And there are a few dishonest Jedi I've heard about, using click-scripts and auto-fire) However, I do believe that attacking a kicked opponent is perfectly fair... I usually kick when my opponent does a ydfa, which is a very effective setup for a kick dfa it turns out. This is simply a counter to a powerful move. Does anyone see my point, or am I babbling? *sigh* I miss being able to play at the academy! |
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Vaughn - Student
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allright - it is dishonerable to attack them when theyr down, but if people should not do it, then would be a rule, or they would take it out of the game alltogether - dont sweat about it - if someone doesnt liek it, they should say that before the duel starts _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Ex-Rauc - Student |
I attack when they're down, I'll admit it. If a person is going to take their training and go outside of the JA to a public server, people aren't going to show "honor" by letting them live when they are down, so I feel no desire to recreate a false sense of honor that will only get you killed on an actual battlefield. Besides, I don't consider it a form of honor, I see it as mercy. Showing mercy to an actual enemy can get you killed in public servers. This comment was edited by Ex-Rauc on Jan 05 2003 06:02pm. |
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FRG_ObiWannaChewu - Ex-Student 
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I have two opinions on this topic. 1: In the JA we are all here to learn and if the two oppenents ina duel don't see what a real duel is about(public servers)then they won't know what to do in that scenario. I feel that it is possible to do the the ground kill nad still not be *lame*. Its a matter of learning the skill to counter or escape it.
2: Some people like to whore the whole kicking thing in private duels which can be very irritating esprcially if the person is not as skilled with kicking. As I said the JA is for learning in an eviornment where people can be and not worry about being lamed. There are ohter ways to counter a dfa such as side steping wallwalk off your opponent or rolling out of the way. If someone doesn't want groung kill in a duel indicate it before fighting. Tell your opponent either by saying no ground kill or just type NGK. Skan  |
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Trad Redav - Student 
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lol haemon, the 'bowing before sniping' is something i've not seen before
I do it. If i'm knocked down and i'm attacked, i don't really care. The chances of scoring a good hit then are really very small. The amount of time it takes to get there is the same as getting up the fast way, and if you don't manage that, you can roll away before getting up fully. maybe i'm just slow. who knows? but if i manage to get a hit while theiy're down, i count it as honorable, because they had a chance to get up. _______________ Well then. Just so you know, just because I don't post often doesn't mean I don't lurk this place multiple times every day... |
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Aron - Retired 
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I do not use kicks to disable the opponent. Some people tend to spam kick in duels, which i find rather anoying. I use kick mostly the phew seconds after a dfa, in which you are unable to move, and the opponent is likely to strike from the side. I try to treat everyone with the same honour, even when they do not. |
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