| Knocked down opponents | |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired  |
it came to my attetion that some guys do not agree with attack knocked down opponents after saber locks or kicks. they say it would be "dirty" and unhonourable.
my personal opininion is that it's not nice from the role play aspect but from a gamer's point of you i don't get why it should be unfair. you can avoid damage is 80% of the cases by jumpin up again fast (hold down jump). keep in mind that you weren't allowed to do kick DFAs at all then (it is requested in the jman trial!). but i'm willing to change my mind if the majority agrees that attacking a knocked down opponent shall be stoped due to aspect of beeing respectfull and honourable. so please leave a note what YOU think! 
but if so, everybody should agree, because i dont see the point of waiting for a knocked down player to stand up, just to get killed by a fast lunge, if you understand what i mean  _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Vaughn - Student 
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I just have to comment on Buzz's learning duel - if your learning, your opponent could do a move to knock you down, you could learn how to get up faster! :p. Just a thought _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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heh, i had another problem today 
i beat someone in a saber lock and let him get up. he was actually a very honourable player and bowed. i bowed back and we kept going. next duel, same happened, and my opponent did NOT bow. but kinda reflex *I* bowed. i realised he did not, felt pretty stupid, and started a lunge to go on with the duel. but, for some reason, my opponent bowed! too late, my lunge killed him. everyone screamed and shouted at me, and i felt pretty bad. so even beeing polite and let somebody get up can have it's dangers :/ but on the other hand, it felt really cool when the first guy bowed to me, for not killing him
to bring this topic to a solution, my decision out of this is: -i will not kill saberlocked-fallen opponents, but only bow to them if they do
-i will keep killing after a kick, because this is a matter of skill and there are enough counters to it -i will keep doing kick DFAs, but propably one in a month becuase it's not safe enough -i will accept all ways of handeling the situation of others (they may kill me after a lock if they want) beside whining after a kick-downed kill 
maybe some guys agree wih me, or post tehre one decisions
P.S. when i lnow my opponent is low on HP in a lock, i do everything to win. why? cuz i just LOVE the animation of the cut hand!  _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Oh, I'm not annoyed when they stand still, it's just an easy shot for me to hit them, and I just don't like taking easy shots.
I stop and walk sometimes too, but I never stop completely becuase that gives a wide open shot, at lest I think so. And yes, yo can stand still and counter me. Maybe another reason I fake. So, our conclusion, is that Kick-DFAs are kinda skillful, so OK. Saber-lock DFAs really are cheap, but some people still use them. I just think that if you need to resort to cheap moves to beat me, you are admitting that you are already the loser of the duel. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Silencio - Student 
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when my opponent stands still I usually roll behind the to get them moving... works pretty good _______________ Second-in-command of the mighty FiZZsters |
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p][ke - Ex-Student ![p][ke](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=70&f_height=66&f_image=pike.jpg)
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Like it has been mentioned, saberlocks take fairly little skill to win, it's a matter of being born with a twitchy finger. Actually I know some people who have added extra buttons to their mouse that rapid fire, so they can fire the semi-auto pistols in counterstrike at impossible speed. I'm sure it'd work for saberlocks too.
Yes, saberlocks are in the game, but you know what? There is a option to disable it, I think this shows that even the developers recognize that locks can be seen as cheap, but it is mostly personal taste wether you wish to take advantage of locks. And Ulic: sometimes I stand still and wait for my opponent because I am tired of chasing them around the mat =) |
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Aron - Retired 
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there's my point. I believe obi wan would have let darth get up, however, darth would kill obi wan at any chance. This is the same in the game, and i wouldnt blame anyone for attacking me on the ground, but i still wouldnt..
Most of the time when i play JK2, i dont give a rat's ass about score, unless i would be playing a match, which i don't, since i simply don't have the time for it. Every duel i fight is one to learn from, winning a duel does not make you a better fighter per definition. This comment was edited by Aron on Jan 06 2003 06:35am. |
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Kueller - Student 
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Well. There are some guys who intentionally make saberlocks. Because they are very good at winning them. If they do it all the time, you don't get to fighting. You only get knocked down and sliced up, not much fun in that isn't there. Anyway I agree with the comment below completely, the 2 types of duels. Just think about it as if you are alive. Would Obi1 have waited to slice Darth Maul if he fell. That's my point. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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Buzz - Student 
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Well I think there are really two types of duels around here. Duel to learn and duel to win. Now if you are in a duel to learn, I can see not hitting someone when they are down because that's more or less a simple tactic that you figure out day one playing. Now if you are in a duel to win, that's anything goes use all tactics to win. Saberlocks are something that might only occur once in 5 duels or 5 times in one duel depending on how it goes. If I'm in a fight with ulic and know that I can't win by being nice and letting him get up, I'll move into kill. In a life or death situation, I'll choose life. If you go into a battle not planning to fight with everything you have to win, that's poor planning. You may not need to use it all but if you don't think you will, there's a surprise in store for you. Now if the only way you are able to win is with killing someone while knocked down, its time to learn more tactics than hoping you'll get the saberlock win.
By the way what are opinions about getting into saber locks when you are both low on health but you know you've got him beat....and he slices off your hand. Not exactly something you can argue about on that one is there _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Hmmm...
I ran into Learners that beat me simply because they knock me down out of saber locks, then attack. I simply never win saber locks. I know that I have more skill than hit-em-when-they-are-down tactics. If you strike when they are down, that just shows, in my mind, that you can't deal with me when I'm standing. If you CAN deal with me when I am standing, then fight that way. I also noticed that I throw out a lot of spoilers. What I mean by this is that I swing so that I intentionally miss. I do this when the opponent is standing still, waiting for my attack. I do not hit someone who poses no treat to me, by standing still. So I swing AT them, to get them to move, attack, and...DUEL!! So back to the hit-when-down... You people have learned WAY too much to use such things. Yes, I can win more fights if I do that, but that just means I suck badly enough that I have to use cheap moves to win. If I fall victim to cheap moves, well, I still win, because you are showing that you are weaker than I, and that you need to be cheap to win. If you aren't some weak, unskilled bastard, don't hit me when I am down. If you are a weak, unskilled bastard, then, fine do two things: Hit me when I am down, so you win sometimes. Track me down so I can teach you how to beat me without cheap moves. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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NofrikinfuN - Retired 
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I believe that Jedi Outcast is much more a game of skill than most gun games. You have to have a good combination of strategy and timing to win.
It is because of this that I, personally, don't agree with attacking out of a saber lock. A saber lock is a horrible button-mashing affair that causes much frustration to those of us slower with our clicking. (And there are a few dishonest Jedi I've heard about, using click-scripts and auto-fire) However, I do believe that attacking a kicked opponent is perfectly fair... I usually kick when my opponent does a ydfa, which is a very effective setup for a kick dfa it turns out. This is simply a counter to a powerful move. Does anyone see my point, or am I babbling? *sigh* I miss being able to play at the academy! |
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Vaughn - Student
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allright - it is dishonerable to attack them when theyr down, but if people should not do it, then would be a rule, or they would take it out of the game alltogether - dont sweat about it - if someone doesnt liek it, they should say that before the duel starts _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Ex-Rauc - Student |
I attack when they're down, I'll admit it. If a person is going to take their training and go outside of the JA to a public server, people aren't going to show "honor" by letting them live when they are down, so I feel no desire to recreate a false sense of honor that will only get you killed on an actual battlefield. Besides, I don't consider it a form of honor, I see it as mercy. Showing mercy to an actual enemy can get you killed in public servers. This comment was edited by Ex-Rauc on Jan 05 2003 06:02pm. |
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FRG_ObiWannaChewu - Ex-Student 
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I have two opinions on this topic. 1: In the JA we are all here to learn and if the two oppenents ina duel don't see what a real duel is about(public servers)then they won't know what to do in that scenario. I feel that it is possible to do the the ground kill nad still not be *lame*. Its a matter of learning the skill to counter or escape it.
2: Some people like to whore the whole kicking thing in private duels which can be very irritating esprcially if the person is not as skilled with kicking. As I said the JA is for learning in an eviornment where people can be and not worry about being lamed. There are ohter ways to counter a dfa such as side steping wallwalk off your opponent or rolling out of the way. If someone doesn't want groung kill in a duel indicate it before fighting. Tell your opponent either by saying no ground kill or just type NGK. Skan  |
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Trad Redav - Student 
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lol haemon, the 'bowing before sniping' is something i've not seen before
I do it. If i'm knocked down and i'm attacked, i don't really care. The chances of scoring a good hit then are really very small. The amount of time it takes to get there is the same as getting up the fast way, and if you don't manage that, you can roll away before getting up fully. maybe i'm just slow. who knows? but if i manage to get a hit while theiy're down, i count it as honorable, because they had a chance to get up. _______________ Well then. Just so you know, just because I don't post often doesn't mean I don't lurk this place multiple times every day... |
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Aron - Retired 
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I do not use kicks to disable the opponent. Some people tend to spam kick in duels, which i find rather anoying. I use kick mostly the phew seconds after a dfa, in which you are unable to move, and the opponent is likely to strike from the side. I try to treat everyone with the same honour, even when they do not. |
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Kalheka - Student 
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I don't really treat it like an honor issue, myself. I think it depends on the game your playing and whether or not it's ff/nf.
In a nf duel I think its more sportsmanlike to not attack a knocked down opponent. In an ff duel, I believe its almost necessary. _______________ Death is only the beginning. |
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Haemon - Ex-Student 
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Will I hit a guy after I kick him down?
If I wasn't going to attack him while he was down why would I kick him? The whole point of kick in a duel(since it does no damage) is to disable the other guy. In other games if you threw a flash grenade of some sort and blinded the guy would you wait till it wore off or would you blow his brains out? Then you guys bring up honour. Why would you bring that up? It has nothing to do with honour, it all about winning. Now some might say thats a bad attitude but its true. Games are meant for fun and losing isn't fun. If you are on a ctf and your team loses 10 games straight because your teammates were bowing before they sniped the guy with the flag you're going to be pissed. In the academy I won't attack if I win a saber lock because they are useless and require no skill but in a public server I will rarely give people the benefit because they won't give it to me. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired
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hmm, i think i will stop it, expect some special cases... a knight should be an example of honour. but i wont mind peeps doing it on me and let's see, maybe one day we get it to a common rule?
thx for all the feedback edit: and asoaron, that "bow to a guy who did not attack you" is a good idea! nme thinks that really shows two guys are high level! _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 This comment was edited by Aeth S'kray on Jan 04 2003 06:42am. |
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Aron - Retired
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Again a personal matter indeed. From a honourable point of view, it just should not be done. Im often on 10 hp while my opponent is at about 100/10, but even then, people should not do it, to save their own ass.
Some people however, fight with no honour, and dont deserve to live every moment you can take them away, and in that case, i will slaughter them
A duel is way different from anything else in what game ever. We dont "bow" before a duel because of your opponent does, we do it to show respect. If an opponent, however, does not earn the respect, i would only nod my head. If an opponent kicks me/throws me on the ground after a lock, and he will not attack, i will bow to him. Call me twisted, but i just like to make it more "real"
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Buzz - Student
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I think its a personal decision. I mean if you weren't meant to have the opportunity of a free hit after winning a saber lock why have the guy fall down, and then why even have saber locks at all. So its there to be done with as you see fit really. I don't care if someone is going to do it to me or not. I don't do it often mainly because I'm a strong stance user and after winning the lock there is sometimes not enough time for your guy to get himself set and make another attack and other times I switch stance but I had attack held down so it still didn't switch to yellow or blue. I think its an issue of do you want to be honorable or take advantage. You're bound to run acrossed both types of people so you might as well not expect a person to be nice if you've never fought them before. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Jagreen Lern - Ex-Student 
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In my opinion its correct, i dont care that other guys attack me when im in floor and I believe that its as much or more correct than a saber thrust
Why stop the fight when u launch to the ground an opponent, when u can attack him in the floor? One thing is honor and other well diferent stupidity
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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i don't see why it should be a bad thing. in a duel, the whole point is to kill the other guy. that's why you challenge people, so that all your force powers are stripped away and your health is equal to make sure the fight is fair. whatever is allowed by the game inside a duel can be used. at that point honor and other crap is thrown out the window and all the duel is about is survival. so i don't care if someone does it to me and i will do it to others as well. _______________ make install -not war This comment was edited by Bubu on Jan 03 2003 09:52pm. |
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(SKX) Dark Blade - Student 
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I don't like it at all and if someone would attack me that way I would not not do it back. _______________ What is the difference between love and Herpes? Herpes lasts forever. (CDC joke) Padawans: Trad Redav, Darth Jello, Tallepyon, Shang Chi, Dopp, Karlin Duke, AuroN, Koushka, Damon, and Katan Brother to Xanatos |
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Silencio - Student
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I don't do it, but i wouldn't get angry if someone did it to me... I do use kick dfa as a dfa counter, but I don't consider that to fall under the "lame" category. With saber locks, its different, because of lagg and all... basically; do or do not, I don't care _______________ Second-in-command of the mighty FiZZsters |
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Telemachus - Ex-Student |
Hmm, I suppose it is more a role-playing oriented question than anything. Killing a guy while he is down *is* pretty cheap, but isn't the whole point of a saber fight to kill the other guy? And isn't there was some way to get up off the ground really fast?
-Tel |
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