| 'dark' and 'light' Jedi and playing the role | |
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Eldrin - ex-Student |
I guess like me most people have a preference for dark or light powers. My preference is light though I think dark powers are more powerful. My reason for prefering light is purely a roleplaying one. Sometimes I might feel like playing an evil guy/girl and will take dark powers but mostly I prefer light.
Now the subject I want to start a discussion on is the roleplay aspect. I might choose to play a light jedi most of the time but then I get in game and it seems most people don't differentiate between light and dark jedi. I would not be surprised and even expect to see dark and light jedi teaching each other etc. Is it not possible to set aside servers for more roleplay? Servers where light jedi don't look like sith, Chewbacca/Padme etc. aren't jedi, 'light' jedi fight only 'dark' jedi (and vise versa) etc. I could and prehaps should say more but I feel this is sufficient to start the discussion. ps If this should be in another forum please feel free to move it or berate me. This post was edited by Eldrin on Dec 19 2002 01:15pm. |
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| Comments |
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Shadius - Ex-Student |
I agree with the Potentium theory to some extent (The Theory that there is no Darkside, and the Force can always be used for good if you chose to do so, no matter what you do with it ie: Gripping people)
The Force can, however, be broken down into "aspects" that show either what the Force is capable of doing, or how it can be used. These aspects help us better understand the Force. These "aspects" include the Living Force, the Unifying Force, the Creative Nature of the Force, and the Destuctive nature of the Force. Can the Force be evil? No. Can the Force destroy? Yes. Can the Force be "Good"? No. Can the Force create? Yes. http://www.jedi-order.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1400 If you view that link there is a very long thread based upon this, if you have the time I reccommend reading it, gives some interesting insights into things which may broaden your thinking. |
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THE S - Ex-Student |
I am also more of a Roleplayer and do the whole Lightside thing.
I don't mind when people use dark side powers like lightning or grip, but when there is someone, (usually a new player) who JUST uses the powers like grip and lightning and doesn't use a saber or anything, then it gets annoying. It makes you wonder what those players would be like without their force powers.  _______________ I am The S. Woohoo. This comment was edited by THE S on Dec 31 2002 04:22pm. |
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Kalheka - Student 
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Well I have to agree that it's time to take a break when your getting upset over the way someone else plays if they aren't doing things meant to make others upset.
You know I can't number the amount of people I know that don't respect others with a difference of opinion. Seems like the ability to have a good conversation with a disagreement is becoming something of a lost art. I would like to hear your further opinion on the force, for my opinion of the topic is somewhat changeable. I have experiences with magic from shadowrun and other sources that influence my thinking on the Force. Perhaps you have some 3rd party experience that may bring light to the topic as well. _______________ Death is only the beginning. |
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Buzz - Student 
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I do enjoy these discussions as well. My talk of getting outside was in response to Aeth's comment not yours. I think that if you are arguing and becoming separated because of your choice of force powers in a game compared to others you really lack social skills. To look down on someone or not include them because they use "those" powers seems....well dumb.
Its just like the people I've played, not here but other places, that get upset because my main saber style is strong style. They just complain instead of trying to find a way to beat it. To me this is a debate not an argument. I respect your opinion because you aren't going "no your wrong, you can't use that it wasn't in the movies." _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Kalheka - Student
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I'd actually like to see that post Buzz, I am enjoying the conversation about the Force. I don't feel like it's an argument. To me arguments are carried out with anger, and I have none of that for anyone that I've been in this discussion with.
You'll find that I can disagree with you, and still respect your opinion, and even like you as a person. I hope that nobody here has been offended by my carrying on the discussion. As for the comment about needing to get some fresh air, that's the kinda comment that does turn these things into an argument. _______________ Death is only the beginning. |
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Darth Revan - Ex-Student 
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Eldrin thinks he created a monster. It was me that commented about me being an Uber jedi and how that would work in his role playing idea. (which after all this time still hasn't been answered)
_______________ formally known as jedi master, vanished and returned as the new sith lord |
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Buzz - Student 
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Kalheka, I do have a fairly reasonable explanation on your magnets and electricity that still will leave the Force without sides, I'll just need to type it up sometime and post it.
When you are getting into arguments and separating eachother because of your chosen side in a roleplay, I think its time to go look at the sun again and interact with flesh and blood people. That's just being really stupid. Yoda is quite the powerful Jedi but also he doesn't constantly use the Force so I think the explanation how he hid was like in Heir to the Empire. The Cave is charged with "Dark side" energy, and Yoda is a beacon of light. When looked from a distance these two objects look completely neutral like an atom. The protons and electrons are there but an atom does look neutral. And who's to say Yoda couldn't have used mind trick on sidious. You can train yourself to be the best in some skills and intermediate in others. Sidious probably focused on the ability to cloud the Jedi's vision, and keep himself hidden from there presence. Afterall the most dangerous enemy is not the one you know, but the one you don't know. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Aeth S'kray - Retired 
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sorry, i'm too tired to read the other comments :/
just my opinion very short: I don't care at all what side of the force the other one is or what forces he actually uses. personally i prefer beeing a jedi (remeber good always wins in SW :p) but i use dark forces, cuz i just think they are stronger. i like roleplaying and it's ok... to a certain point. i saw friends and guy within one clan, in one community getting seperated because of their "religion". when people start fighting or argueing becuase someone is a "weak jedi" or "evil sith lord", that's where it stop for me. and i'm afraid there is a big danger in roleplaying to seperate groups of people and make them start argueing. my 2 cents  _______________ Aeth S'kray *June 2002 +September 2003 |
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Kalheka - Student
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Anakin lost to Dooku almost strictly on skill. Anakin was impatient, and hot headed. Dooku wasn't, and had great skill to back himself up. Obi-Wan also lost to Dooku on skill.
It's important to note something here; having the most power doesn't mean that you automatically have the most skill. A less powerful opponent can defeat the most powerful if they have superior knowledge and skills. Mind Trick might have worked on Anakin, but not on the Emperor. Yoda couldn't have hidden from him with that power alone. Remember that the Sith Lord is powerful enough to cloud the vision of the Jedi, and keep his presence right under their noses. _______________ Death is only the beginning. |
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Jedi Al Khalaas - Student 
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Anakin Sywalker WILL become the most powerful Jedi in the whole Galaxy.
Remember something will happen to him in Ep 3 to weaken him , may be that volcano? Even the weakened Darth vader (half machine) took on Luke and then the Emporer. I guess at his peak he could have taken out anyone 1 v 1. This comment was edited by Jedi Al Khalaas on Dec 27 2002 04:58pm. |
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Vaughn - Student 
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wasnt Yoda so much more powerful than vader? I mean he ownes Dooku, and probably could take on the emperor, so wouldent darth vader just leave yoda alone? or atleast try NOT to fight him? And anyway - you forget about Mind trick, you disappear. _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Kalheka - Student 
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 Electricity does help explain how the force can have sides, you can have areas that are more negative than positive of the force. The psychic side of things adds more depth to that.
Remember the scene in ESB where Luke says "There's something not right here, I feel cold." Yoda told him he was in a place that was strong with the darkside. Go back to electricity and magnetism for a moment, and the Earth itself. The Earth has magnetic poles, center's of magnetism/electricity. Don't you think that force poles could also exist in the galaxy? Pockets that are strong with both sides of the force? Edited to add: Why do you think Yoda could be found on Dagobah? He picked it because of it's strong connection to the force, all of it's alignments. Otherwise he never would have been able to hide from Vader when they began hunting down the Jedi. _______________ Death is only the beginning. This comment was edited by Kalheka on Dec 26 2002 03:28pm. |
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Vaughn - Student
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i beleve you, but it was you who came up with eletricity
yes, psychic aspect... thats a toughie to explain _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Kalheka - Student
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Ah, ok Well, they can cancel each other out. I wish I could use Shadowrun here as another example, it would help explain things. The Force isn't as simple as electricity, it's also got a psychic element to it. That psychic element also contributes to what I'm talking about. _______________ Death is only the beginning. |
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Vaughn - Student
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i know about neutrons, but a proton and an electron cancel eachother out, which makes a neutral charge, thats what i was saying _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Kalheka - Student
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Actually Vaughn your only partially right. Protons are positive. Electrons are negative, it's Neutrons that are not charged, and not part of electricity as I remember. The only place I can remember Neutrons being mentioned is in the structure of the atom.
I assumed that the Force also had areas that were neutral, and had forgotten to include that in my post, which I had already edited about 50 times to try to make it clear lol. _______________ Death is only the beginning. This comment was edited by Kalheka on Dec 26 2002 02:38pm. |
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Vaughn - Student
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I do realize that this is going no where, but I'll tell you this... this is one of the most interesting/long/difficult arguments ive ever had. I now know why my friend told me to join debating (a joke from school). This monster that you have created can be defeated (pulls out a force shotgun). Heh, ive wanted to use this one _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Eldrin - Ex-Student |
OMG I've created a monster!
*Runs screaming into the nearest closet* |
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Kay Mata - Ex-Student |
Vaugh, Buzz Vader and Silent...i also follow your idea about the Force, you all explained your point very well and i have to admit its hard to defend your positions about the Force, i say you all did very well and we could keep ourselves arguing like this for months and years witout arriving to a conclusion...let,s keep this like religions : you can't convince everyone to follow the same idea, some tried to this and in the middle ages alot of people died (i know we are not taking this so far but its the same thing), so let the people choose their sides on this subject...
-Kay Mata _______________ Back for good... |
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Vaughn - Student 
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Buzz - When i read what you said on "she's the teacher and student, and i am a student and teacher", i could only think of one thing - how much my brain hurt. Also, you end with a ", where you dont need to.
Kalheka, the force being negative and positive. well, that would make sence about the energy, but lets look at electricity. What is the + side? Protons the - side? electrons, what does that equal? NEUTRAL!
i dont know what my point to argue is, but... the two charges cancel eachother out, so.... the force becomes neutral XP(>_<  _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Kalheka - Student
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On the debate of "Is there a Dark Side of the Force". The answer is yes.
Energy is charged either positively or negatively, thats how it flows. Take a look at your walkman batteries, you will see on one side a +, on the other side a -. Now for those of you who will bring up the wall socket you have your lamp, and computer plugged into: That type of electricity still is + and - charged, it is just set up to flow in a way that allows other electric devices to convert it to a lower voltage. Try out your refridgerator magnets, remember playing with them? How if you hold them one way they are pulled together, and hold them another they push apart? The Force carries the same tendency, lightside powers flow from one side, darkside powers from the other. That's also how in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke said, "Something's not right here, I feel cold" Yoda could say," Strong is that place with the Darkside, and in you must go." Luke was going into someplace that was charged with the negative side of the force, it fed on his fear, and uncertainty, and helped produce his imaginary encounter with Darth Vader (with the help of Yoda, I believe). That's how Jedi can carry both, because both good and bad reside in us. That's how there is a grey side, because they mix within us. What makes a Jedi light or darkside is the amount of either they let flow the most. Kyle can use darkside powers because within himself is the balance that allows him to use both sides. Anakin truly does fulfill the prophecy of bringing the force into balance because he brings back the negative that the Jedi Order strived so hard to wipe out. It also makes perfect sense then that the old jedi in the book traitor would dislike Luke allowing Jedi to marry, because the old jedi despised anything with emotional potential basically, they came to view emotion as something a jedi could not afford, cutting off the very thing that they needed to have balance. So, for those of you who say, "How can energy have sides?, How can the Force have sides?" There you go. I've edited this thing about 50 times now LOL On another note, I think that the power of the Jedi Mind Trick is really a darkside power because of it's intent to impose your will on another. _______________ Death is only the beginning. This comment was edited by Kalheka on Dec 25 2002 05:58am. |
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Buzz - Student
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Well put Vaughn, very well put. I'm one that follows Silent's idea of the Force if you will. Its not actually her idea though, it stems from the novel Traitor which I read before she did. But she's the teacher and student, I'm merely the student and teacher. I wanted to see if those so adamant about the Force having sides explaining why it does and how it can. Silent's intent was to make people think my intent was to drive in the idea and to get people to move on to why you can't just go nuts and use any Force power anyway you want and going, "It doesn't matter the Force doesn't have sides."
*Edit* Put the starting " since I missed it and Vaughn pointed it out. That's why I ended with a ". _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This comment was edited by Buzz on Dec 25 2002 09:00pm. |
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Vaughn - Student
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ok. What I say may offend you, or may be opposite to whats said, i may be repeating whats said but here we go.
Note:some parts may be hard to read - having difficulty expressing it. What is the force? The force is all around us. It is in everything. The question is, does it have sides? A conscience? A brain? Anything that causes something to happen? Think of Gravity. Does Gravity have sides? Does it do anything against us? No. Gravity is a force that pulls us inward toward the center of the earth. Or any planet. What is the force? It is something that can be controlled inside of each and every one of us. So the next question is, does the force have sides? There are two different answers to that. Yes and No. To those who think that the force has sides - you may be correct, and you may have your thougts, but I must disagree with you. The Force cannot have sides (Silent, im trying to answer ur question here! and you cant say no one answerd it! cuz Buzz Vader did many times!), seing how it is just a force within every one of us. How can it have sides? Darkside/Light side you say? In reference to the game, every one would agree that Kyle Katarn is a light jedi. If he is a lightie, how could he use such "dark side" powers, such as lightning and grip? He had hate in him, thats how. The thing is, The force does not take sides, the user takes sides. What does that mean? It means this; The force does not take sides, all the force powers are "grey" powers. Now, to use some of them you must have hate in your heart. NO! Every jedi could use force lightning, every jedi can use force grip, just the "light jedi's" do not use them, because it is very difficult to use them without meaning of harm. For the "light jedi" only use the force for "good" or for protection. However, it could be argued that the Force takes sides, indirectly. back to gravity again, we can conteract gravity through flight. The person chooses which powers to use, when and how. So it is the user, not the force, which chooses sides. The "Dark side" powers, can be used safely without turning evil, but the thing is, it is much more difficult to use them without hate in your heart. Most jedi who use Lightning or Grip (dark rage also) use it to harm people, therefore becomming evil. When dooku shot lightning at Yoda, Dooku was evil trying to harm him. Yoda, must have had knowlege of it to be able to block it, or else he would have been tossed aside like a rag doll (like Anikin or Luke). He must have been tought how to use it, or at least how to block it. How else to block it, if you cant use it? Yoda just chose not to use it. To make a simple answer, the force does not take sides, it cannot, the jedi who use it take sides, and decide how to use it, for harm or for good. All jedi can use all force powers, yet some are easier to use with hate in the heart, these such powers are deemed the dark side. Kyle (after the fight with Tavion/Galak) used lightning and grip without turning to the dark side (before hearing that Jan was/is alive, he was slowly turning evil). Yoda must have learnt how to use lightning to be able to throw it back. In basic, the dark side and light side are within each of us. We should not hate, for hate is the road to evil. _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Veydar Beeurd - Student |
No the Sarlacc didn't kill Boba Fett in the movies.
You know why? Because the Sarlacc keeps you alive for 1000 years, while it eats you! Heh... Anyway, how did we get off topic? lol |
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.Templar. - Ex-Student 
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That nasty ol' Sarlacc couldnt kill Boba... Boba is the man!, I think the EU is good as it ties up loose ends such as Boba Fett... |
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