| Only two? | |
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JavaGuy - Student  |
There's another thing that bothers me about the "only two" rule for Sith Lords, and this goes back to my question of whether Palpatine really is Sidious, as the first two episodes imply, or whether he's someone more powerful who supplants Sidious and takes the last Sith Lord, Vader, as his own apprentice. If Palpatine really is Sidious, and if there are only two, then when he asked Vader to bring Luke before him, that can't have been good news for Vader. Vader had to have known that his life was in danger, and yet he was perfectly cool with it. Palpatine, if he really were Sidious, should have been alarmed at Vader's willingness to bring back Luke alive. If there could only be two Sith Lords, and if Vader wanted Luke to be one of them, then Vader can't have had anything pleasant in mind for his Master. If Palpatine were not Sidious, however, but rather just a powerful Dark Side user who killed Sidious and appropriated his apprentice, then Palpatine might not give a womp rat's ass whether he had one apprentice or fifty. Perhaps, of course, the "only two" rule is not something the Sith consciously decide but rather something that is just deeply ingrained in their nature. As for Vader's acceptance of his Master's interest in Luke, it's something of an understatement to say that Vader and the Emperor had an abusive relationship. Call it Battered Sith Lord Syndrome if you want. Even in Episode VI when he meets Luke on the Endor moon, Vader seems to understand the problem and yet be resigned to his fate: "It is too late for me," he tells his son. That's how much the Dark Side has twisted him. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Hector Thrawn - Ex-Student 
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im gonna repeat other stuff here but whatever maybe something new will come of it: empire strikes back: vader asks luke to join him and defeat the palpatine. rotj: vader defends palpatine unless vader wanted to kill EP himslef (which is possible seeing as dark jedi tend to be arrogent (probably why EP wasnt scared) the only other explanations are: vader figured 2 masters and 2 apprentices. however, since he didnt learn of leia untill later (unless ep 3 says otherwise)that is ruled out. so maybe he was willing to die for his master. to back this up: how long did it take him to decide pleasing his master wasnt worth his son's life? as for the emporer... well, he probably figured he could keep either one in line and was just playing the two off each other to get the stronger one as his lacky. |
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Lancer007 - Student 
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the reason why there is only 2 sith rulers because Sith Tradition goes back a way long time even before exar kun. the reason that there are only 2 rulers of the sith is because the sith seek worthy dark jedi to become a Dark lord of the sith and his pupil the sith master |
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Rei D'Kana - Ex-Student |
loL ill take that as a compliment  |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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u not stupid... u just don't pay full attention to things _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Rei D'Kana - Ex-Student |
Gaaah Im stupid, soz Didnt see it hehe |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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duh!!! read the sentence completely!!! i said if someone is a Sith's Apprentice then he is "Sith Apprentice" and THEN he WILL become a Sith!!!!!!!! _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Rei D'Kana - Ex-Student |
Is that a rule that you when you are the apprentice of a sith that you automatically are a sith? (if so, maybe vader is a dark jedi, has it ever been told in the movies 4,5,6 that hes a sith?) This comment was edited by Rei D'Kana on Aug 20 2003 07:36am. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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Dark Jedi -> Jedi who use the d/s Sith -> Dark Jedi who is in the Sith Order and wants to destroy the Jedi course i know the difference... but if Luke did become Palpy's apprentice he would be a Sith Apprentice and then a Sith  _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Rei D'Kana - Ex-Student |
Erm, there are two different things here. Dark Jedi and Sith. Dark Jedi are not sith (or so I was tolded when I asked someone this question) If Luke would be turned he would become a Dark Jedi. Not a sith. So thats why he would make a good ally if he were to come to the Dark Side. Sidious would have controlled him cuz he was bound to the dark side even while he was not a sith. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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didn't ya see Palpy's face in AOTC when Jar Jar said they should get the clone army??? he really didn't want it as i could see... also the tone when he said (before what Jar Jar did) that Padme wasn't there so who would vote for an army? he was guilty gib time as hell... he definitely IS sidious... and a Sith! plus, and ordinary dark jedi can't use force lightning so strongly! only a Sith Master/Lord can... Notice the difference between Dooku's and Palpy's lightning... what is stronger? Palpy's lightning kicks ass pretty well _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Rocket Raccoon - Student 
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the emperor did want luke as an apprentice. after vader and luke fight in rotj. he says and i quote, "Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side!" i think that the emperor just wanted to see which was more powerful and that was who he wanted as an apprentice. thats why he had vader bring luke before him. vader did it because of two reasons. 1) he couldnt bring himself to destroy his son and 2)he had to obey his master. it was really a no win situation for vader. so he did what any of us would do, betrayed his boss to help his son. and oh yeah, we already knew that vader wanted to kill the emperor cause he said so in ESB when he asked luke to join him and rule the galaxy as father and son. so either way someone was going to betray someone, and there would only be two sith or there would be no sith. so yeah i think palpatine and sidious are the same person. _______________ "I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"-Homer Simpson This comment was edited by Rocket Raccoon on Aug 19 2003 05:18am. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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We're led to believe that. We are not explicitly told. The identity of Darth Sidious is the only surprise left in the story, so my money is on it being something other than the obvious. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Jaina D'Kana - Jedi Instructor 
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eh?? how can you say Palpy isnt sideous?? Of COURSE he is! Its not even supposed to be a big mystery. There is absoultly no doubt _______________ INTP |
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JavaGuy - Student
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I don't recall anything in the movies saying that he had to be Sith to use lightning. He just had to use the Dark Side. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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hey... Chancellor Palpatine = Darth Sidious = Emperor Palpatine and he didn't really care who his apprentice would be _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Rogue - Student 
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Emperor Palpatine is a Sith...or did you forget him pwning luke with his lightning?? _______________ I was a child when I joined the JA...scary. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Rogue, that assumes that Palpatine is Sidious. Again, we're led to believe that, but I'm still holding out hope that Ep III will not be so predictable. If Vader is the last of the Sith, but Palpatine is not Sith at all, then Palpatine is bound by no rules. Also, Darth Bane is from the EU and thus apocryphal. Lucas has said himself that the movies and only the movies are the canonical story of Star Wars, so we can't rely on anything from the EU to predict what will be in Ep III. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Demon - Student 
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Palpatine wanted to live on. He was just tempting Luke, by wanting luke to strike him down. But at the end Palpy says, that luke strikes his father down, and takes his place by his side. Thus, 2, no more, no less. _______________ Quote: Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power. Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force will free me. -The Code of The Sith
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Rogue - Student 
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lmfao guys I just told you the reason.....only 2 sith because it is a law set in stone by Darth Bane.....before him there were thousands of sith _______________ I was a child when I joined the JA...scary. |
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Nero - Student 
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hmmmm you've got a good point.... maybe palpatine forcees the fact that luke will kill vader, and on the other hand vader wants to kill palpatine to become the ruler together with his son... _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? |
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Rogue - Student
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Yoda referrs to times AFTER Darth Bane. Bane realised that sith could not live long enough withought destryoing eachother, so he made the rules of 2 when he was left as the only survivor of the last war between the sith and jedi (KOTOR war) _______________ I was a child when I joined the JA...scary. |
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Lord Jaws - Student 
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Also, Vader did knew that he could die by the hands of his son, if Luke turned to the dark side, but if you have ROTJ Luke talks with Vader, and Luke sais: You will not hand me over to Sidious9I do not know the exact words) and VAder sais, I MUST obey(???) my master. It is a kind of a principle, a law for the Sith, and Vader was at his end of his life, he was only getting weaker. But than again, the history of the Force has always bin a little fuzzy about this kind of stuf. _______________ One night, I was lying in my bed, looking up at the stars and I said to myself: "Where the h*** is my ceiling?! |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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palpatine said once the son of skywalker must not become a jedi,they where going to kill him and palpatine knew if luke became a fully trained jedi he could kill him(palpatine) _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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no ranja they distinctly say "always two there are. no more. no less." that sounds like they're pretty sure about it and not just speculating on whether there is one more or not. javaguy, don't forget that the powers of the sith are not perfect. how would you explain, for example, that darth vader didn't sense that princess leia was his daughter and force-sensitive when he was standing right in front of her for quite a while. he only realizes that she's his daughter when he senses that luke's thinking about her as his sister. so i guess you could explain everything by saying: sith also make mistakes. otherwise they would already have won a long time ago  _______________ make install -not war This comment was edited by Bubu on Aug 15 2003 07:59am. |
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Rainer - Student |
Palpatine asks Luke to strike him down with his hatred. I think the Sith are only concerned with making sure their traditions are an enduring legacy, not with their own lives. Palpatine couldn't have cared if Luke killed Vader and became his apprentice, or if Luke killed Palpatine and became Vader's apprentice. So the only two theory does withstand scrutiny. BUT I never thought that when Yoda said that he meant there are always only two sith. In fact the only time I ever even though of that possibilty was when I went online and read forums. When I say it, I thought he was saying that the menance isn't gone, because although they killed Maul, he would either have an apprentice or he would be the apprentice of a greater Sith Lord. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James |
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