| Jesus Christ | |
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Rainer - Student |
Plain and simple, I want your opinions on the following things. Please give me reasons behind your beliefs. I may or may not post my standings on the matter. I just recently resigned from such a topic on another forum because it was taking up too much of my time writing replies. I've just grown curious about how the people of the Academy view Jesus, especially after seeing MINDofSIN's profile pic. Your beliefs regarding him. - Are you a Christian? If so, why? Oh and if your an agnostic, I would rather this conversation stray away from a long debate on whether or not the truth on the matter is knowable. For this topic the term Christian should be applied to someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and who has committed their life to Him. Who was He? - This includes who do you think He thought He was. If you state that He thought Himself to be a prophet, give me reasons. If you state He thought himself to be God, again, give me reasons. If you state he never existed, you best present evidence on the matter because that is easily refuted. What of his Resurrection? - The most important story of Christianity, without this Christian Faith is in vain. Refute it or Defend it. Please make sure you are actually refuting it or defending it, and that you are not just making empty comments. I do not want an analysis of Christianity or religions in general. I do however want an analysis of Jesus Christ Himself, be Him man or God. I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again, do not make empty comments. Oh yeah, and be civil. The last thing I want is a flame war between believers and non-believers. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James This post was edited by Rainer on Oct 10 2003 05:12pm. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
"Jacen, that's because you watch the Discovery Channel..." So true, great channel, imo.  But no, I didn't just see it on DC and decided to put it in a post.  I have a lexica concerning Egypt, and I was very much into Egypt only a few years ago, so I do know a bit.  Anyways, no matter how much I hate it, I guess I'll have to go with orion on this one. Yes, it scares me too.  |
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Orion - Retired 
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Koyi, so if I understand your last post correctly, dont mind cause I just woke up, but believing in what the bible says about god and such, our fate and destany has already been set in stone and layed out? If thats true, theres a nother reason I dont like/follow/believe religon. I believe that everyone controls there fate, and frankly I hate being controlled and told that I cant control some aspects of what happen in my life. _______________ When a Man lies he murder's some part of the world. These are the pale deaths which men misscall there lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home? -Cliff Burton Owner of Smily's 1900th comment | <Lady_Catherine> i love your sexy white socks! | (Lady_Catherine) i adore u! | (Lady_Catherine) onion (Lady_Catherine) i lub u |
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Bandit - Student 
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Jacen, that's because you watch the Discovery Channel...  I do find the possible connection between Aton and the monontheistic development of the Hebrew people to be interesting... Regardless, it is an interesting footnote in Eygptian history. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Sorry, don't know about Mithras, I DO know about the religion of Aton, though. |
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Bandit - Student
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Master Ulic, of course I know what the Mithras Cult is...I'm too pedantic not to know that. I can guarantee that MOST Christians don't know nor do they know the influence that the Mithras religion had on Christianity. Little things like, Jesus' birthday is celebrated on December 25th because this was originally Mithras' birthday. (Constantine decreed that the Christian holiday would be held on the same day). Sunday was a day to honor Mithras, who was the Sun god. Hence Sun Day. This practice was taken over by Christians. Also, the eating of bread and drinking of wine was the a huge part of the Mithras religion ceremonies. This was also adapted by Christianity.. There is just tons (tonnes) of more stuff like this... Yet very few people know anything about this (originally Persian) religion. _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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aph3x - Retired 
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im getting out of this before a war breaks out |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Aphex? As far as the Bible is concerned, no man or woman has any power over their fate. Effort really isn't a factor when God has dealt the cards. (Just posting on my belief.) As for the teacher presenting himself, that's almost a true statement but again it is all in God's hands. He elected those in which he will save. No one can change his perfect plan of salvation. All one can do is cry out for mercy,(not saying that this will save one), and pray that God in his great mercy will save that individual through the hearing of his word. Hopefully, many will hear, come to believe in God, and be saved. I pray for all of you my friends. God Bless. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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*Koyi smiles warmly at all the attention this post is getting* Wow. Alot has been added since I last looked. I'm still studying and hopefully will have some more to post on what I've mentioned earlier, but in reaction to what my buddy Katan posted, I would like to try to find the scriptures that would best answer his questions. *Koyi opens his Bible and prays a small prayer* For your honor and glory O Lord, please open our eyes and ears so that we may hear your voice and obey just as the dead man Lazarus did. Please have mercy on us and bring new life into those of us who are dead in our sins so that we may be yours and so that You may be our God. Bring us out of our captivity to our sins, O Lord so that we may praise your wonderful name. Okay Katan. I'm not really sure where everyone is getting this idea that Jesus came to save every human being or that He will return to have His kingdom on this earth where peace will follow. This is just not found in the Bible at all to the best of my knowledge, although I will admit, I'm not saved. My eyes haven't been opened to the whole truth that God has presented me with in the Bible and I wouldn't want to say I have all of the answers. I will just try to provide you with some scriptures that may or may not be what your looking for. May God add His blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. In the book of Luke we can dive into this question. In Luke 12:49-52 we read: 49) I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50) But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51) Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52) For from henceforth there shall be five in one house devided, three against two, and two against three. If we take a look at Matthew chapter 10 we get a good look at the context of what I'm about to post. It is very simular to what I just read in Luke. In Matt. 10:34-39 we read: 34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35) For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW. 36) And A MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD. 37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. In verse 38 God mentions taking our cross and following Him. I think this can be explained in Romans 6:1-4 we read: 1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. And just so were not confused on the whole baptism issue since there are many different ideas on what baptism is, we will let God tell us what His idea of baptism is. In Ephesians 5:25-26 we read: 25) Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. Now I don't believe God is saying church as in the buildings in which we call the church which house the different beliefs on the one true God. I believe that scripture would point to the fact that God uses the word church in two different ways, one of which would be the one He established with the sending of His word into the whole world which brought us what we know of now a days as the church, and the second of which can be shown to be the body of true believers saved by God before the foundation of the earth. That's getting off the topic at hand, so if anyone would like me to study that, please feel free to ask me. The whole point I'm trying to make with the baptism issue, which again I can study and provide scripture, is that it is the washing away of our sins through the word of God. Again in Romans 10:17 we read: 17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. How Jesus is to return is also recorded for us in His Word. The book of Mark in the 13th chapter is a great read on the end times better known in the Bible as the great tribulation. In Mark 13:26-27 we read: 26) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the utter most part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Matthew chapter 24 is very much the same way talking about the same time. In Matt. 24:30-31 we read: 30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. In Matt. 24:27 we read: 27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.The same language can be found in Luke 22:27 as we read: 27) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud owith power and great glory. More is revealed about his coming in the book of Acts in the first chapter. In Acts 1:9-11 we read: 9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10) And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Same can be read in Luke 24:51 as we read: 51) And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. In Mark 16:19 we read: 19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. *Koyi sighs* Wow. I did a small study on this thinking it wouldn't take me that long, but it took me all night! That's cool though. I read some very interesting passages along the way and got to spend some time with God. For God tells us in John 1:1, 1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Also in John 1:12-14 we read: 12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. 14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. We spent time with the Bible, the Word of God. Therefore we spent time with Him. Thank you Lord for this wonderful blessing. Katan. As far as God being perfect, I'm sorry I will not post on that at all tonight but I will study and post on it soon. Remind me if I don't remember for I have too many subjects now that I would like to read on and I might miss a few for my memory isn't that good. *Koyi closes his Bible* I wish I had more strength to keep on going, but bedtime is nigh and God willing I will post again really soon. Take care everyone and God Bless. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Oct 15 2003 11:45am. |
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aph3x - Retired 
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Jesus of Nazareth? Wether or not he was the 'Christ' is yet to be proven. As far as being the Messiah(which really means 'Prist of Israel' if you take it back to the old skool)...i doubt it. Wether or not he had kids in the south of france or whatever...who cares. Seriously. You belive in what you belive in. It all boils down to exactly how much effort poeple want to put into thier religion. For some people its important, for others its not. When the student is ready, the teacher will present himself. Some people are never ready, and they have to just belive what they are told. That's fine. edit-- p.s., bad religion rocks, newt be quiet. This comment was edited by aph3x on Oct 15 2003 10:10am. |
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Muad'dib - Student 
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Hmmm... !lastspoke Jesus_Christ -JAbot- Jesus_Christ last uttered a word on #Earth 2000 years ago. Hm. Not bad. _______________ "It's because I love you. No. It's because I love you" Oh, Anakin, you're eloquence is second to none. I AM THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES! |
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n00b - Student 
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Who was Jesus Christ and did he really exist? My belief is that Jesus Christ most likely existed. A notable historian of the time, Josephus, mentioned him in his writings (I do not think he referred to him as "Christ," however.) This does not mean there can't be doubt that Josephus was writing from heresay or folklore. It just means a Roman citizen felt that it was important to make note of this person we call Jesus Christ in his account of the history of the time period. There is a good chance because of this it may be true. It is up to you whether or not to believe it. Nobody is making the wrong decision on what to believe here. I have heard both sides of the argument and there are valid points on each side. Like I said, I choose (note I did not say "know" to think that this person did walk the earth.Next is the question about who he actually was. I wouldn't say that anyone knows this answer anymore. Only so much information has been passed down through the last couple of millenium. What does undeniably exist in the present is a belief that this man was the Messiah, that he came to save the world from their sins, that he would return some day to fulfill the ultimate prophecy and restore Israel to its former glory. Many scholars have raised questions about whether or not Jesus himself believed he was the "Christ." There are many good points defending each side of this question as well and I highly recommend to everyone to find more information on this topic. It is plainly evident that Christians within the first century believed there was going to be a Messiah and I think the bible and history shows that people chose to believe that Jesus was the one. After looking at both sides of the argument, I choose to believe that Jesus had no idea that he was going to be donned with the title of Messiah. There are two types of Messiah, one being a wordly Messiah and the other a spiritual Messiah. In my own personal image of what a messiah should be spiritually, I think the life and times of Jesus as accounted for in the Bible is a little lacking. It is also clear that the prophecies about the Tribulation, Armageddon, and the restoration of the Temple did not come to pass within the time frame supposedly set forth from Jesus himself (it is questionable if Jesus even said these words.) The Temple was not restored within a generation of Jesus's death, but just the opposite. The Romans destroyed it and that was it. No end of the physical world, no Jesus returning in the sky, nothing. It is at this point, when exactly, nobody really knows, that Jesus became a spiritual Messiah. The hopes of Jesus returning to free Israel from Roman occupation came to an end and the religion evolved into something more like the present. Present belief is that Jesus died for our sins. It is written that without the shedding of blood there is no remission. Before the time of the Christian faith, it was well accepted that a sacrifice had to be made for forgiveness of sins. This belief was present in Judaism as well as a multitude of other religions of the day. The evolved spiritual Messiah became the final sacrifice. His death meant to the new faith called Christianity that there was no longer a need to slaughter an innocent animal for forgiveness. Christians now believe Jesus sacrificed his life for the forgiveness of the whole world. What I find weird about this is communion. If you really take a close look at what is occurring here, you will see that communion is symbolic ritual sacrifice. It was common to consume the slain animal after it was sacrificed. Christians now symbolically eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. This is also another very interesting topic I encourage everyone to find more about. Whether or not Jesus died for our sins, it is true that Christians today believe that he did. It is also true that most other faiths took the same road. Sacrificing animals is something that has almost come to an end. Something interesting to read is the Pythagorean. Within that book, Pythagorus talks about his belief that animal sacrifice is something that should stop. This was written 600 years before the spiritual Messiah of Christianity took the role of the final sacrifice. I do not believe that anyone or anything died for my sins. Just as Pythagorus saw that animal sacrifice did not make any sense, I find that symbolically eating and drinking portions of a slain god just as repulsing. We all choose to follow our own paths. Some of these paths are not acceptible to the community. A "sin" against humanity has powerful repercussions, so I choose to obey the law as best I can. I believe the golden rule is something wise to know and I try to follow it. I do not believe that Jesus fulfilled prophecy, so I do not believe he was the Messiah. I also do not believe in communion. These are the two biggest reasons I am an atheist. I also, which for some people I have talked to is difficult to accept, do not believe everything that is said in science or evolution. A god vs. science argument is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Nobody ever proves anything on either side. Knowledge of history plays the largest role in my lack of Christian faith. What I see is that there most likely was a man Jesus who was executed by Rome. After his death, Christians turned him into more than he could have even imagined. I am grateful we do not sacrifice other creatures needlessly but I will not symbolically consume a sacrificed god. I believe that the shedding of blood does nothing but create a mess. I could say tons more but im pooped. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Oct 15 2003 06:37am. |
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Orion - Retired
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Hmmm My opinion....Personally I really dont by the "Higher power" theory..nor do I believe that there was a Jesus Christ as talked about in the bible. Nor do I believe anything the bible says. I dont believe that we were just created and put on this planet. I am a believer in Science and that everything can be proven/solved, with enough time and effort put forth..So ya I too am an Atheist..damn another thing in common with Aratan _______________ When a Man lies he murder's some part of the world. These are the pale deaths which men misscall there lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home? -Cliff Burton Owner of Smily's 1900th comment | <Lady_Catherine> i love your sexy white socks! | (Lady_Catherine) i adore u! | (Lady_Catherine) onion (Lady_Catherine) i lub u This comment was edited by Orion on Oct 15 2003 05:22am. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Newt: we've covered this before. It's a logo from the band Bad Religion. They're a great band. Not necessarily anti religion, but heavy on the govt hating. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Newtius Slasher - Ex-Student 
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dotn got time to tell you The Greatness of christ soo i jsut give it to yeh in a nutshell Jesus PwN's YOU! w/ yeh all the way sared oh yeah MindOFsin i dont apreciate you having that pic i think it is rude and just stupid   |
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Katan - Student 
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Take note that I always get all defensive with these sorta threads, since I just LOVE a good argument So, I think it is best I do not reply anymore, _______________ |
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Katan - Student 
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"Is not the LORD perfect? He is" Wait wait wait wait.........lol I cant ever remember anyone ever saying that the lord was perfect. How can we say that? Lets say for the sake of this example, that God did infact create Humans. Wouldnt that make us perfect, since God is perfect? I know some people are going to say to me "God wanted us to learn from our mistakes" Thats not good enough for me. I have to disagree with what Kow said about God being perfect (whether the bible says it or not) We cant prove he was, so therefor we shouldnt really say that..... just my 00.02 cents. No attack ment on anyone, just stating my belief... _______________ |
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Sared - Retired 
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Too busy/lazy to post/read. Jesus pwns; 'Nuff said. _______________ I'm crazy, not stupid. |
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Katan - Student
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"I'm born and raised Jewish" Damn you DJ, I was going to use that line "You can only count on yourself, not some man who died ~2000 years ago. I believe there is no afterlife and we need to live here to make the world a better place for the sake of making the world a better place, not for any reward after we die." Damn you again DJ But in all seriousness, what do I think of Jesus.....I am part believer and part non-religious believer. I do not believe Jesus was the messiah (As many Jews Joke, if he was the messiah, did he just mess up the first two times?) I believe he was infact, a prophet, just not the messiah. Another part of me says We live, we die, End of Story. As DJ said, we cant count on a guy who live oh so long ago. I dont expect for Jesus to come back and bring world peace. Thats OUR job, not a man who lived long ago. We should be trying to make the world alittle more peaceful, instead of waiting for someone to come and make it happen. I have a questions for all Christians, who have studied deeply in the bible/ect. This is not an attack, nor am I trying to change your belief, just a question, since I have never had a chance to ask anyone, who would know, nor look for myself. Did the bible ever say how Jesus would come, and "bring peace to the world"? I have pondered this, would he just pop outa the ground and say "Let there be peace!" and the whole world became peaceful? Just wondering, if someone could clear up that fact for me, if its possible to clear up..... _______________ |
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SaberWeildinKow - Student 
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Ok, I will put up the correct translations for ya! Let me throw out a question to my *active* Catholic friends (I used to be one myself). Why do Catholics believe that if a baby dies without being baptized, the baby will go to hell? Is God not a just God? I know that the baby would go straight to the Celestial Kingdom. Why? Because the baby had no evil intentions in his/her heart. Another question that goes for many religions. Why baptize as a baby/young age? Isn't that trampling upon Man's Free Agency? |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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Long live the Mithras Cult! Does anyone know what that is? _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
*waves the atheist flag around a bit* |
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Bandit - Student 
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*Bandit winks at his fellow atheists and agnostics* *Bandit winks at everyone else* _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) This comment was edited by Bandit on Oct 14 2003 04:55pm. |
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Mockran - Ex-Student 
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*looks around and smiles that his fellow brother Christians exist in the JA* *smiles at the everyone else* _______________ Life is Something that Happens when You can't Get to Sleep. Everybody Lies, but it Doesn't Matter Because Nobody Listens. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
I want the Nordic religion back. |
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YinYang - Ex-Student 
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2nd that cause Koyi RULES when it comes to these types of things _______________ Sister to Smily,Axion,and CT Friend to ALL... SMILY, LUKE,MAGRA,AND KOYI RULE!!!!! . . : :There is ALWAYS 2 Yin and Yang , Good and Evil: : . . |
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