| Jesus Christ | |
|
Rainer - Student |
Plain and simple, I want your opinions on the following things. Please give me reasons behind your beliefs. I may or may not post my standings on the matter. I just recently resigned from such a topic on another forum because it was taking up too much of my time writing replies. I've just grown curious about how the people of the Academy view Jesus, especially after seeing MINDofSIN's profile pic. Your beliefs regarding him. - Are you a Christian? If so, why? Oh and if your an agnostic, I would rather this conversation stray away from a long debate on whether or not the truth on the matter is knowable. For this topic the term Christian should be applied to someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and who has committed their life to Him. Who was He? - This includes who do you think He thought He was. If you state that He thought Himself to be a prophet, give me reasons. If you state He thought himself to be God, again, give me reasons. If you state he never existed, you best present evidence on the matter because that is easily refuted. What of his Resurrection? - The most important story of Christianity, without this Christian Faith is in vain. Refute it or Defend it. Please make sure you are actually refuting it or defending it, and that you are not just making empty comments. I do not want an analysis of Christianity or religions in general. I do however want an analysis of Jesus Christ Himself, be Him man or God. I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again, do not make empty comments. Oh yeah, and be civil. The last thing I want is a flame war between believers and non-believers. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James This post was edited by Rainer on Oct 10 2003 05:12pm. |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |
| Comments |
|
Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
|
Yes, but wind at least makes itself know. And thus, the pink bunny came unto me and said,"Wait for me in the spot by the sea", "bring a carrot with thee." I walked fourty leagues. among the dry death. Thy life forfeit while on the path in a pathless ruin. Point?: Even that kind of writing could make a pink bunny look good.  _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Nov 20 2003 11:57am. |
|
Ulic Belouve - Student 
|
Hmmm.... "I believe in what I see". Therefore....you might argue that there is no God, but then also..... THERE IS NO WIND ONe cannot actively SEE the wind, only the effects of the wind. Sure, there are explanations for wind, but they are merely written by mere men. It is just as justifiable to believe that the effects are actually caused by the spirits of all the deceased (which is a lot by now). It is just as reasonable, right? I mean, there are most lieky books written by men as well. Oh, I get it, the books written proving the existence of wind are written by CREDIBLE men. Ah yes. And we can ALL perform SIMPLE little tests to show that there is wind, but nothing difinitive to prove that it IS wind, and not just wandering spirits. Uh-huh. So...according to the not believing in something unseen, no matter how credible the writers are, the sheer number of everyday people with experiences attesting to the fact the the unseen is real, etc....it is sheer lunacy to believe in that which cannot be seen. Thus, yes, you therefore should not belive in God by that logic, but you should also NOT belive in wind. Remember....THERE IS NO WIND. Logic is fun. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
|
SirBizNatch - Student 
|
Just to go back to the big bang thingy ( ive just entered this conversation, havnt read everything) -if the universe is expanding, and will one day stop and come back, who says that this universe is the first/only? theretically there could have been many more before us and after us, right? _______________ Personal body guard to teh 1337 Jacen Aratan! Midbie Council Memeber||Member of the Almighty FiZZsters |
|
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
|
Thanks Menaxia _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
|
Menaxia - Student 
|
WELL said Bail Belouve[JAP] _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
|
SedNox - Student 
|
i believe in what i see... _______________ -Evil Clown- "We interrupt this program to increase dramatic tension." Echuu's 1200th comment, D@RtH N00B's 10850th comment, Redeye's 100th and 150th comment. |
|
SedNox - Student 
|
jesus christ!!?????......where???!!! _______________ -Evil Clown- "We interrupt this program to increase dramatic tension." Echuu's 1200th comment, D@RtH N00B's 10850th comment, Redeye's 100th and 150th comment. |
|
Smilykrazy - Retired 
|
/me awaits koyis response to all these new posts!  _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
|
Ulic Belouve - Student 
|
Well, if you believe in the Church being a building, or the Vatican, or whatever, then, yeah, you don't belive in that. The Church is actually the community of believers, the fellowship therein. So any good Christian would have to believe in that form of Church, the right form of church. Just that most people think of a building as a church, but really, it's the community of believers. So, the various believers posting here form some sort of church, in a community of belivers. We are the Church of the JA. Hehe. It's just that politics turns things around a lot, such as one guy taking HIS community and breaking off from ANOTHER community. Not what was in mind with the definition of Church. So really, to go to "church" on Sundays should be to go to a fellowship and community of believers, not to go to hear some old guy preach and eat wafers and drink wine. The fellowship and community needs to be prevalent in any building we call a "church". It is what Christ desired. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
|
Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
|
Am I a Christian? I am, because I was raised in that way. I believe in God and in Jesus Christ, just not in the Church... Who was He? He was definitely a man, in who the mind of God was born. Some people say he's just a religious lunatic, that may be so, but then he was a lunatic with a nation behind him What of his Resurrection? I believe he was Ressurected, but... Not from dead to alive I believe they saw his ghost, that taught them many things and then left to the heavens. I will not give an explanation about why I believe he was real What I will give is my own personal theory I believe the Curch (the Vattican (spelling?)) is as corrupt as it can be. It even holds story's to themselves, and refuse to put them into the Bible Even after these story's are proven to be the real thing The church calls them blasphemy and just moves on, like it is nothing. It is said that these stories never even reached the Pope. I can't understand why. Also, I do not believe that if you don't go to church each sunday, you go to hell. I believe that it is your life and your acts that count. "What you do to the people, you do to me" -- Jesus Christ. I refuse to believe that the power of the Paradise of God rests in the Church. It is not the cornerstone of my believe. I truly believe there is a heaven, and angels. But with that, I also believe in Satan, and his demons and devils. The Church may say "We are the cornerstone of the Christian believe", like one highpriest at the Vattican(spelling?) said, but most of us know that is not true. For instance, it is a worldknown fact, that Jesus wasn't crusified trough his hands, though the Church doesn't alter the statues made of Jesus. Isn't that blasphemy? Or changing words into something else, or rewriting story's to something completely else, isn't that blasphemy? Off course, it is to good to decide in that, but if it is, I hope he shows them mercy because those people don't know really better, they have been raised in that belief. Therefore, I believe in God, our lord But not in the Church. As always, if you have questions, feel free to ask them. Even if you have some snide remarks I can take them  _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
|
Ulic Belouve - Student
|
First off, there is the logical and argumentative fallacy of both Rave and Menaxia taking a general issue and making it a personal attack on Ranja. (edit: actually, looking through this, many of you break this down into a personal level, personal atttacks, which is merely illogical. So not to pick on just the few above). If you wish to argue from a logical perspective, use logic in constructing your arguments. Since your arguments are logically flawed, you have not made many counterpoints to the discussion at hand. Keep your arguments logically linked, and stay within the general issue, and not personal attack, else, you will merely prove Ranja's side of the argument the victor by failing to logically argue. This happens all the time, that the opposing side needs to resort to making the issue a personal one, and thus fails in logical argumentation. I'l make my points after I read more. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. This comment was edited by Ulic Belouve on Nov 18 2003 05:27pm. |
|
Ulic Belouve - Student
|
And what would qualify oneself? I will ponder many of these thoughts, as I have a wealth of resources at my disposal, and am quite formidable at defending the Christian faith. I have many books, some of which he speaks of, at the office where I work (my job is to do things like defend points to others). I will enter my comments from the office. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
|
Menaxia - Student
|
He's just a little kid thinking he's making a clever remark - except that he can't qualify himself. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
|
Rainer - Student |
Because murder is a sin, and killing yourself is murder. Plus I wouldn't be able to at least attempt to spread the good news. You didn't say anything contrustive at all, just 'go kill yourself and see God." Funny you haven't said anything to refute my comments on the Big Bang, nor my previous comments concerning the authenticity of the Bible. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James |
|
Sindweller - Ex-Student 
|
if you like god so much why not just kill youslef and see him??? _______________ with great force comes with great power Do things slowly.you'll get big achievment seek for challenge...move forward abit does'nt hurt that much--advisor |
|
Rainer - Student |
I would suggest the books "the Case for Christ" and "the Case for Faith." There are compelling evidences for the Christian faith that both atheists and Christians ignore. One funny thing I would like to say about the Big Bang Theory. If the mass of the sun was compacted into the size of the earth, it would have an escape velocity greater than the speed of light. Anyone who has taken Physics can tell you that no matter can go faster than the speed of light. It gets even better when you consider that we aren't just talking something like the sun, or the size of the earth, we are talking about all the matter in the universe, all compacted not to the size of a molecule, not to the size of an atom, but to a single point in space. If any sort of explosion happened the matter would not be able to escape itself. As I stated before evolution isn't a case of Creation vs Evolution, its a case of Science vs Evolution. _______________ The Jedi formally known as Ranja. ---------------------- "I can list among my experience and skills: leadership, extensive travel, logistical organization, intimate understanding of firearms, and a knowledge of security measures at numerous banks." - Jesse James This comment was edited by Rainer on Nov 18 2003 12:16am. |
|
Vasper Ba'xian - Student
|
I ponder the reasons for exsistance often. Instead of finding answers, I find more questions. I just can't accept the thought of something that has no begining or end, just doesn't seem possible. I tend to think logically most of the time. To me, in a maze of possible answers, the simplest one is usually tends to right. However, in a subject such as this it's not that easy. Whats more logical: an almighty God created everything from his will, that we are his children, that he has a paradice waiting for us when we die. Or that we are a small spec of life that erupted under the right circumstances, and after death...thats it. Sometimes i can't dicide, or don't want to. Now whats it mean when I'm not sure about heaven, but I fear of Hell. I'm not sure of any kind of after life, but can sometimes feel my dead loved ones watching over me. When I don't believe in God, but I fear him. It's like being torn in two directions. Both paths give me little comfort. I don't wanna sound like some fruitcake about to snap or anything. I'm a very mellow person. Layed back. Major change from the hell raiser I was when I was younger. My father studied for 2 years to become a priest, but changed his mind when he was told he couldn't have children. So I was taught the bible. Why it didn't take I don't know. I've always been the type of person that had to see something for myself before I would believe it. So I guess I'll find out the answers when I die. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
|
|
Menaxia - Student 
|
That's precisely the point. Humour me for a second - God has no beginning, and no end. Therefore he IS infinity. As for big bang theory; I believe it too. But what made the Big Bang? It is entirely possible to believe in God and accept science at the same time. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
|
Vasper Ba'xian - Student
|
I believe in what I can see. And I've never seen GOD or any of his "Miracles". I believe in science. Like Darthmaul says, the Big Bang type theory. That itself is amazing to think about. Easier for me at least, than GOD, the almighty who has always been and will always be. If there is a GOD, then I'm pissed that our existance is just his little science experiment. My main question to him would be "why?". Why make anything? Why do you exist? Who made you?(god)Where did anything that has ever existed begin? I can't have faith or belive in a GOD that leaves more questions than answers. I am fascinated with space and "infinity". In a world where everything has an end, it's hard to imagine something that doesn't, or so we believe. People sometimes bath themselves in the idea that they are SO important, when in reality, they/we are just another ant in the hill. The Bible: A book or several books actually. Writen by the prophets of jesus christ. My Idea: Prophets leading people to believe in these "miracles" in order to strengthen the numbers in their religon. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Nov 15 2003 11:10pm. |
|
Badger Hat - Student 
|
First of all, I do believe that Christ came to Earth to save us from sin, That Hell is a real place, with real fire, and we are going there for eternity unless we are saved. I don't want to start a big debate, partly because I don't have time, so I will not say all that I believe. We cannot study this through science, because no one has recorded the beginning of the Earth. God formed it, and all of creation points to him. _______________ RL bro to HawkJedi Chuck Norris pwns!(duh) Proud member of Yeah, it's a hat. |
|
Menaxia - Student
|
Sared- I'm sry but yr logic chromosome wise is very flawed. Speaking from a Biologists' view point: It doesn't matter how many chromosomes you have. What does matter is how much genetic information is carried on each one. Species such as the fern is very gene poor. It's genes are spaced VERY far apart, unlike arbadopsis (mouse eared cress - a popular model organism for scientific study), has a very compact and gene rich genome, with only 5 chromosomes. Common ancestry is shown by having loads of chromosomes and the like, because the sequences are all very similar, and they arise from replication errors when a cell divides. If such errors do not reduce the plant's ability to survive, then they will persist. With another 'hat' on: Being a Catholic and believeing strongly in a creator, the afterlife etc - I find that the more I study Biology, the more evidence i find for the existance of God. There is far too much order in the universe occurring by pure chance for anythig to 'just happen'. BUT Sared - you cannot use a subject you know nothing about to try and justify your point of view... _______________ This is not the place to look for me This comment was edited by Menaxia on Nov 11 2003 05:11pm. |
|
Bandit - Student 
|
Doppelgänger, you stated in your last sentence that your beliefs are not up for debate, well, ALL my beliefs are up for debate. I question any and all beliefs I hold. That is how I came to not believe in a god in the first place. I can't understand anyone refusing to even question a held belief. Why would you hold fast to a belief unless you had analyzed it and could then feel comfortable that it was true? _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
|
Doppelgänger - Student 
|
Though I can not tell you that I believe my religion to be the sole truth in regards to what Jesus thought he was I can tell you what I've read and believe to be a possibility and why I accept that possibility as being more than pure fiction. According to my religion as a Logistical Baptist which is nearly completely different from any other type of Baptist we believe that Jesus Christ was the "son" of God much like other types of religion. What this means is Jesus was (in today's standards for conception of a human) a "freak of nature'". He was conceived without the add of a male sperm donor yet solely with the genetics of his Jewish mother Mary. Jesus soul like ours is a derivative of God (the creator) however God was also Jesus himself though it is not explained very clearly how the trinity of God/soul/Jesus were all in existence before all things were made it is accepted as a possibility due to the complex nature of the space time continuum. God created Jesus as an amends to mankind's wrong doings stemming back to Adam and Eves fall in the Garden of Eden. Which in turn poisoned the bodies of all Adam and Eves descendants so that human bodies would die where as before humans were immortal beings. Jesus being meant as a "sacrifice" from God to pay for the sins of mankind so that human souls would not have to parish in "the lake of fire" which human souls are naturally bound to. By accepting Jesus/God into your soul you are attaching yourself to a collective of souls that are attached to God. In turn you can no longer be bound to this universe and it's doom of parishing into "the lake of fire". However those who do not accept this "gift" (Jesus and/or God) into their souls is still connected to this universe and will be destroyed with it. I feel that explaining Jesus resurrection when you clearly know of it is irrelevant but I will explain some. When Jesus died he had to visit hell (Sheol) and "the lake of fire" the reasons for this was because Jesus truly had to suffer as any human soul would in the natural order of human death without interference from God. This act was to "pay for our sins" as well as bring souls back that had not had the chance to know or accept God into their souls. His resurrection was because he had finished the task of saving lost souls in those places and it was his job then to take them to heaven. I believe that the 500+ people that seen him ascend are not lying nor delusional at the time. The account was clearly and vastly documented despite oppression. These are my opinions based on my religion. I've done the best I could to answer your questions in a timely short post but it is difficult to put years of research in a short readable post. I do not intend to come back and read any further post nor have I read any posts that have been made by anyone else other than Ranja's first one. My beliefs are not up for debate and I never wish to debate anyone else's views and opinions. _______________ "Look not back in anger, nor forward in fear But around you in awareness." Ross Hersey |
|
Koyi Donita - Student 
|
I'm not knowledgeable myself to debate the whole "Life spun itself together out of pure chance". Personally I think it is impossible for this beautiful planet which is believed by man to be floating around for millions or billions of years could have possibly formed into what mankind has been a witness to. This planet has an almost uncountable number of plants and animals each which almost had a perfect balance in the world before we came along and messed that up. Now maybe, just maybe under the right conditions, it might be possible to create life although it all sounds really chaotic to me reading all of the post that were for this choice. And lets say that out of this puddle or pond or what ever hole it was life crawled out of began evolving. By the way, as far back as man kind has made documentation and with all of our scientists and our supreme knowledge, we have never witnessed or proven that evolution exists. Okay, but let's just say that life started to evolve in this hole and then found it's way onto land being plant because animals would most likely need food to survive. So now we have plants starting to spread across the world but it would most likely be one or maybe two species of plants being that evolution doesn't happen that often. Now some could argue that plants too could evolve and just to tickle them, let say the do before covering the whole face of the planet because it was also a popular believe that the land was once one mass. So BAMM we kick it up a knotch and say that plants evolve and start spreading maybe a total of 4 or 5 species at best. At this point I can help but wonder how many thousands or millions of years it would take for plants to spread from one coast to the other, (thinking of one land mass). I don't emagine that it would take that long but in any event, soon the planets surface would be covered with a small number of what ever species of plants there are I guess breathing carbon that the world passed into it's atmosphere. So now we'll get generous and say that animals either evolved from the plants or started their way up out of the same hole and the soil would or should have enough nutrience from plants living and dying and they begin to spread out and evolve and spread out and evolve until we have a small number of plants and a much smaller number of animals actually living on land. I don't know if anyone else notices this, but when I go on a nature walk, which I know has been disturbed by man but very minimal, I see lots of trees, smaller plants in the forms of bushes and vines and even smaller plants and flowers. All of these living almost in a perfect harmony with one another. How could it come to this? I would imagine the firsts of the plant world just growing on away with almost no limitation except for habitat or climate. Now is it possible that in an area where plants are present and fixed for other plants to be dominant and start taking over? Ever try growing a tree in a field? Can't just drop a few seeds in the ground and watch it grow. It needs the right environment and conditions to grow. Planting stuff is not easy, nor do you find an abundance of grass growing in wooded areas. Not enough sun and water for it to be that way. So what evolutionist are saying is that with all these chaotic spurts of evolution, which hasn't even been proven, just in the plant world alone that it can by chance form into this amazingly complexed and well balanced display like we see today? Highly unlikely and if not impossible. Same goes for the animal kingdom. Think about all the different species of animals and how they coexisted in a well balanced manner before man started screwing it up. How is it possible that evolution and dumb chance started, sustained, and well balanced all of the different species? And think about how complexed one animal is. Are we really that ignorant to where we can say, "Yeah with enough time and chance this beautiful specimen that we have before us with it's incredible natural instincts and natural defenses which it has a full working knowledge on how to use has forged it's way into it's surroundings and has become one with the awesome balance of nature."? Think about all of the cells in one creature all working together to make that creature what it is. Can we really truely believe that man can come from single celled organisms? Well, personally I don't believe that out of so much chaos and dumb luck that this world can become the wonderful world we all have right before us. To a certain degree I can agree with Sared on his statement of how creation is a testimony to God, but I'm not sure as to how nature can tell us the Son of God's name for the Bible will be quick to tell us that by no other name can a man find themselves to be saved. The Bible is the true testimony to God and through it He saves. Just my opinion with my admittance to my ignorance in the whole debate. I hope I have pointed out some valid points. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Nov 07 2003 07:22pm. |
|
n00b - Student 
|
Its all combinatorics. It is generally accepted that the universe exists. The universe exists and we know that life can exist within the universe from observation and our self-awareness. It is highly improbable that elements in the universe could join together to form life, although we know it at least has happened once. The real question is whether or not a mind conceived life or that it just happened on its own. It is improbable but not impossible for life to appear by chance. We have not been able to reproduce the formation of life in the laboratory, but that doesn't mean nobody will ever be able to. It is plainly obvious to me that out of the awful odds that life could appear, it did. We are part of this living world and it seems amazing that we are here. We ask the questions, but nobody can answer them 100% truthfully. We make up a creator to explain the existence of life, but nobody saw the creation process. We have been here for a brief moment in the lifespan of the universe. Given the time, given the materials, the energy, the odds go up that life could exist by chance. We have no idea how many times or in how many places life had better odds of existing than right here. Someday we'll know the answer to what probability it has of showing up. We are made purely from stardust. Just like what's said at a funeral- ashes to ashes, dust to dust. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |