| Are the points for trials neccessary? | |
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Lian Del Rey - Student  |
Every day, every week, all the classes are filled up for one thing.
To get points. I mean, people join classes to learn something they already learned. They just take part in it to get their points. I understand that you take off a point because somebody doesn't attend, but, you could use those points for something else. Taking a point off is good punishment I understand. But these people just join the classes for the points so they can do trials. So here's my point: To do trials, you need points. You get points from classes. People attend to these classes for the points. Please do something else with this. _______________ slorp |
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| Comments |
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Vaughn - Student 
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well, if you failed your jman trial twice, there is something your doing wrong. ask the people who are trialing you, and then ask them what you did wrong, and how to rectify it. _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Undead - Ex-Student 
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i don't like to rush the trials... ehehe yes, i failed jman twice, and i'm fine as it is as learner. _______________ RIP Vlad |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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yeah, we are getting a little offtopic heren me thinks.
ok jacen, I hoped that u wouldn't take server times 
time in the JA can not ONLY count, but you cannot know the skill of some people, so I'd say it is ok to let people enroll to trials when they have been in the JA for a reasonable amount of time. But this should be the rare case, imho. To my mind, most ppl should get to their trials by points, but if you are a newcomer who's really a hot-shot when u get nominated by a JAT/JAK I don'T see a problem there. Or are there so many hot-shots, or longtime-JAS-Initiates ? _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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ioshee - Student 
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I like that Ulic. Maybe the same little plusy/minusy thing that is on the class page, but on the user's profile instead. It could be accessible by Knights and above. And when you do something bad (i.e. kill somebody unjustly, don't lick the boots of a knight when they tell you to) you could get a point deducted. I don't think you should get a point for just showing up and staying for the entire class. _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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Sniya - Student 
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mabey jedi growth ponts,could act as a weaker form of punidhment by jats ocassionly i see a player do something rong eg. curse.Well the jat does not want to give an official warnning for such a small thing so he just says bad student and mabey scilences him.This new system could bring a whole new demension to thethat was only really present with jat and knight trials(ie nominations)
Being trully like a jedi being good kind considerite etc. 1 more question is would this system further disadvantage players from outside the U.S.?That jats would be less likely to see you doing this stuff.Oh and by the way i think it should be part of a jats powers to remove and give out these points on the servers. And in relation to journeymen etc nominating lower ranks i can see only one of two possiblitys : Everyone nominating thier mates for the sake of nomination or no one bothering to nominate anyone _______________ The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do. Bertrand Russell http://www.thejediacademy.net/forums_detail_page.php?f_id=970 |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired 
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Yup Ulic that would be the optimal way to run the show.
But I think we need a better way to add/remove the points a a few more staff members so that it we can have a couple of members at the servers to keep an eye and evaluate the folks. - Jace _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Well, I'd like to scold the council on this points thing. The whole idea stemmed from me, but it was NOT a "class point" system.
It is a POINT system. If you work with a JAK/JAT/JAC privately, they can tack on a point. If a JAK/JAT/JAC notice you doing something "mature" or Jedi-like, they add a point. If a J-Man decides to teach an initiate, IMO, the J-Man can get a point. If some people are dueling/practice for a good couple hours (intensive stuff), a JAT can add a point. The points were NOT meant to be earned only in classes. They were meant to be earned by doing something that a good student would do, when you illustrate GROWTH in your training. You do something well, a point goes to you. I really think that the show-up-to-class-get-a-point idea is a bad misinterpretation of what was proposed. If you show up to class and LEARN and GROW, that gets you a point. And you can show that you have learned and grown outside of classes. For those that have worked with me privately, I get someone to add a point to your score (some may/may not have noticed). I will try to be online more often. BUT! If you come to learn things from me simply for the points, I won't write your name down. You come to learn and grow, that is what the points are about. So I think the council should go back over what I originally proposed as the point system. This was not what was intended, despite the fact that the initial news referenced me as the "author" of the idea. It has turned into what Id did not intend for it to become. We need to be more vigilant in granting points to those that demonstrate growth and learning outside of class. I think that the idea has de-evolved into a point system purely for classes. I remember seeing in the servers a JAT say every rare time "Good Fight, you have really grown.." or something like that. Did you write down their name and give them a point? That is the essence of the point system. If you are growing, you get points. Classes are obviously the most obvious way to get points, but try doing something that demonstrates growth on the servers. Now, don't be a show-off, but do what you would do naturally. I don't want people to be nice to a newcomer because they might get points, but be nice to a newcomer because that is the right thing to do. And it is still our discretion to give points or not. IMO, if you are whining about points, you really aren't growing, and really don't deserve any of them. But we do need to adjust the point system. It's really meant that If you demonstrate what you SHOULD be doing, then you will get points. But I will be open to having the Council or anyone else come to me to clarify what my initial proposal was, as well as anyone else that might have questions. But behave, chill out, and keep doing a great job, and you SHOULD get the points needed. And be patient. I really should re-post my popular writing I did on patience, about 4 months ago. It went over well. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired
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Fizz I wasn't thinking about taking the times from the server but instead record the times you enrolled on a class (and attended it).
Example, the folks from Australia say they can only attend a few classes. So instead of 5 classes for learner they could take 2 on a 1 month period and work on their skill outside the classes. The time on the Academy cant be trusted uless you really know the person. There are a lot of folks that eroll and dont show face in months. Belive me. We have abut 2100 members , abut 700 active on the web page and maybe 350 active on the servers. (but thats my view of it, I could be rong  )
- Jace _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" This comment was edited by JAcen LW Solo on Feb 03 2003 12:07pm. |
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Master Lew - Student 
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How about calling them "time/date stamps" or "time stamps" or "S&H Green Stamps".
That last one was for the older crowd.  _______________ Brick Assassin for Hire Here, have a brick! 
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ioshee - Student
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DOH! Good point Jace. Maybe you could just make it a point to tell people that it will not help to ask for a nomination. Then, to prove it, you could make a public example out of someone. Like I could ask for a nomination on one of the servers and then you could scold me and demote me to initiate right on the spot for my lack of patience. Then everyone could take turns flogging me with their lightsabers. I bet people would think twice about asking for a nomination then hehe. _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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I see ur point regarding the nomination thingy, but the time-points sound like a good attempt.
maybe we should give them a better name. But i wouldn't let the times on the server count, but the time since the JA signup. if the guy is good, he can do the trial, if he doesn't feel he's gonna make it, he mustn't do it. taking server times could lead to server-idling, which me doesn't like very much....
edit: if the nominations are done in trial prep classes as well the JATs could double-check which player is unlike to pass the trial. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" This comment was edited by Fizz of Belouve on Feb 03 2003 11:14am. |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired
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Hey guys good job. It's nice to see ppl trying to come up with a solution instead of just nagging about the problem.
I will try to get the staff to read this thread before the next staff meeting. The nomination idea is also good, but keep something in mind, there are abut 25/30 staff members including JAK's/JAT's/JAC's and about 600/700 active members. Lets say that half actually hang on servers. Thats 300/350 guys asking for nominations .
Thats back to square one, where ppl where begging for trials. 
But it's still a very valid idea. Keep on the good work. - Jace _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" |
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ioshee - Student 
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Well, I just mentioned the nominating thing because it would not only encourage class attendance but general community participation. You would have to be at least somewhat known to get a nomination. It might mean a lot of people would stay initiates, but would they really care if they don’t even care enough to get to know their fellow students and trainers? It would prevent someone from just showing up to take trials I think. Plus it would almost assuredly go hand in hand with the time you spend at the academy. And the more classes you take the more people you get to know that could nominate you. _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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Vaughn - Student 
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well fiZZ, you should take those ideas to the council (or maybe if Jacen is reading it, he could bring it to the council...). But, there is something you can do with the time at the academy.... Class points, and Time points! Enroll in classes, get there, learn the stuff - class points
Go onto the servers, learn stuff, meet people, make friends - time points. Note:cant think of a good name for time points... i was thinking olbie points, but that wont work :/ _______________ When you become an actor, you become the person, and you dont act anymore. You just are. - Tyler HP, Taught by Mr G Simpson |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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yeah.
maybe that all comes back to JAK or JAT nomination thingy. so I see three possobilities to get into a trial: 1.) you got the points 2.) you are within the JA for a reasonable amount of time 3.) JAK/JATs nominate you how does that sound ? _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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JAcen LW Solo - Retired
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Hi folks.
The 2 main reasons for creating the point system were the amount of ppl showing for trials unprepared and that half the classes were allmost empty. Yes allmost empty, and there were less JAT's then there are now. But I do agree with the time suggestion. I belive that there should be a mix bettween class atendacy and time at the Academy. I honestly don't like when some chap starts bitching abaut his points and how his career is destroyed when he is at the academy for 4 days. I don't call that a career. Maybe we can use both methods. If you round up enough points for the trial you may have it. Or if you are at the academy for a certain amaount of time yooo you are inteteled to it too.But we need to find a way to check if the person actually hangs on the academy or just drops by once every couple of weeks for a trial. - Jace _______________ "Though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I shall fear no evil .For I am the baddest mofo in the valley" |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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doh.
I was trying to be a unique rebel
anyway, I think mas enrolling just to have the security to be able to attend a class in time may not be the right answer. going forward may not be the right answer, maybe I should go back... _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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ioshee - Student
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Don't worry fizz. You're not the only one. I like the point system too, and I like you. Hehe, that rhymes.
I like things that rhyme too. _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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Acey Spadey - Student 
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hmmm decisions decisions...which side shall, i take..well i'll take neither, both have good points there...firstly i came into this and before i could take my first trial which i was ready for, they introduced the points and i had to get my 5 to get in, i'm on 4 now as i only have access over the weekend, and i know the pain that she's talking about about classes being full..here's a hint for you..if you really wish to take the class, leave a message at the class asking if you can just join in anyway to learn, and check the roster before class because usually people drop out at the last second cause they can't make it...i'm trying now to enrol in everything that i can as soon as the class comes up and if i can't make it i'll drop myself from it....simple as that..
the main reason i believe they brought in the point system is so that people don't waste times in trials when they are clearly not ready for them.. i believe i am ready for the trials as many a person i have trained with says that i'm talented and have trained enough and know eniough to take them _______________ .Lag Bro to Xanatos. Adopted Twin to Bubu. Big-Brother to SmilyKrazy ---- JATSRAD Guru, JASE Member, JA SP Mod Staff ---- The Order of the Stick -- Big thanks to Mango for my avatar -- Quote: Sometimes you've got to specifically go out of your way to get into trouble. It's called fun.
Quote: (Random hella old quote) <Fizz of Belouve> .. in sovjet russia, cereals spit at YOU!
Quote: whats the point of growing up, if your not allowed to act childish!
Padawan - Henkes
This comment was edited by Acey Spadey on Feb 03 2003 07:51am. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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I don't like the idea with the amount of time.
I like the points system (I'm probably the only one _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Aron - Retired 
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in my honest opinion, every rank untill a knight does not matter really, its just some sort of "stepping stone", if your ambitions are being a knight/jat.
Class points dont make a difference for knight trials really... You need a recommendation from 3 others, to even get your trial, so anyone who just does it for the points/status, will fail there. Just my 2 cents |
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Bubu - Hubbub 
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i had a chat earlier with mistress ael'ra on msn and she also seemed to complain about the points... personnaly, i don't like it either. and i had this idea.
what if instead of points, there would be something like experience time... say to get your learner trial, you would need 2 weeks of JA membership. for jman, you would need 2 months.. and so on.. now you can argue that people will show up for the trials unprepared.. well then they fail don't they? this can account for people who cannot take classes, people who would rather learn on their own, and people who are just naturally talented. however i do realize that if your point is to raise class attendance, this would not work, it might actually decrease it.. hmm.. but anyway, just my two cents _______________ make install -not war |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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i see it not only as an exam, but the way the classes work, and the massive amount of complaints agbout the current system makes me believe that most JAS simply lack responsability.
Enrolling 4 days before a class takes place can't be to much of a request. Heck, some people even know what they are going to do 10 days or more in advance !
same with unenrolling. think of it, you'll get my drift. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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ioshee - Student
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I think I see where you are going with this Lianiotte. How bout instead of going to class to get points, you get punched in the face to get points. Maybe then not so many people would be lining up to get punched in the face for points.
Or what if every rank was like that of Knight. You had to be nominated even to take a learner trial. Maybe Journeymen or above could nominate initiates, Knights or above could nominate learners and then you would still have to be nominated as it is now for Knighthood? Just a thought. I know the council and others discussed this new system in a huge meeting so I don't think its worthless. However I see Lianiotte’s point. More class attendance doesn't necessarily mean people are learning. But I guess that's what the trials are for. Like an exam. _______________ One of the Belouve boys |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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You all are constantly keeping to much importance on the points.
disregard the points as an indicator of knowledge/skill. and, enroll earlier for the classes. we have loads of students and few instructors. can't say this often enough. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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