| view on the war | |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student  |
If ya feel like venting about the war or any International conlfict or problem, just put it here._______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON  .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality. |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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This is just my opinion, but "dubya" went into Iraq for two reasons: 1) To put friendly people in power in order to have some kind of access to Iraq's oil (aka $$$) 2) To help his bid for re-election later this year. If you're an American and plan on voting, vote something other than Republican! Actually, forget that, your vote doesn't count anyway. _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Your right buzz, I don't speak for everyone. But I havent heard from anyone in RL that I have talked to, that agrees with this war. That says something to me. I do however suport our troops. Being in the Army myself I know what they are sacrificing. Quote: seeing that something has to be done, and agreeing that something has to be done. Gimme a break. What had to be done? Think about it, in the Gulf War we beat the hell out of Sadam's military. When "Iraqi Freedom" started, how far did we get into Iraq before we had any serious resistance? Pretty far as I recall. So riddle me this: Why would a country leader attemp to use or stock pile WMD when his military was virtually non existant? So he was gonna gas a city and then leave his country open to a counter attack? Iraq is just a shadow of what ever it used to be. Yes it is a hostile country to Americans'. But there is a simple solution to that. DON"T GO THERE! Bush was so hellbound on finding targets for his "War on Terror" that he said, "What the hell, we haven't heard that much from Sadam here lately, lets put him on the list too." My Opinion: Bush is a total idiot and should be drug out behind the white house and put out of his misery like the rabid dog he is.  _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Xipkell - Student |
Before the war, Buzz, most people favored more inspections and backing by more of our allies before entering into the conflict. Public opinion poles showed the country against the war. Not until the conflict was forced did those poles change, IMHO because the general concensus became that if you were against the war you were not supporting our troops. Which of course was a load of BS and this still remains the conservative point of view. Go ahead criticise(brain PFFT) our unscrutable gavernment and see who has something to say against your point of view. Then wait a moment longer and they will attack your integrity, values, morals; call you unpatriotic and a terrorist sympathiser. It has become a stigma to be refered to as liberal in this country. Well if you haven't guessed yet, I am, but beyond that I am one of the most patritic out there for I have served this, once great now declining, country of ours. How many of those stone throwers can say that?  This comment was edited by Xipkell on Jan 09 2004 11:21am. |
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Buzz - Student 
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Quote: instead we are forced into conflicts we don't want to believe in and force to pay for a war that we don't believe in. You realize that not everyone in the US shares your view right there Vasper. Maybe not wanting it because most people don't want war, but seeing that it is something that is going to be, and agreeing that it has to be done. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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Bottom line: Bush has his own agendas. He plays the crowds he knows will vote for him and ignores the rest. What has he done for this country so far besides get us into a war that most of the world doesn't agree with, Try to play Mr. world cop, and cost us BILLIONS of dollars that could have went to schools, hospitols, grants, scholarships, charaties, wild life conservation, trouble youth, ect... The list goes on and on. So many things couldbe done to help this country, instead we are forced into conflicts we don't want to believe in and force to pay for a war that we don't believe in. I think it's time that the people had a say in how their tax money is spent. I personally don't want mine funding a war I;ve been against from the beginning, nor do I want it spent on some Lazy woman on welfare who has more kids just to rake in more checks every month because she's too damn lazy to her A$$ up and get a job. These politicians take our money like their reaching into a piggy bank. I for one am sick of it. Come 2005 I'm getting a lawyer and getting exempt form federal taxes. Yeah I won't have SS but when I get old enough to need it, it won't even be around anymore anyway.(anything I can do to piss of the IRS, I'm all for it!) _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Xipkell - Student |
Unfortunately, yes it is true. Umm, by the way, how long did he heave to wait to get into housing. When I was released from active duty, most Navy houseing lists had, roughly, a one year wait. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Xipkell: is that true? My gf's bro is a Captain in the army with three kids and they live in a crappy 2 bedroom house on base. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Hey folks, over the holidays I saw this interesting ad. I'm not quite sure how this bit of information got passed me in the first place but seeing as I am honorably discharged from the Navy it obviously struck a chord within me. If you have any connection to the armed services or any interest in them check this out http://www.bushin30seconds.org/view.html?id=11&size=large* This comment was edited by Xipkell on Jan 06 2004 06:49pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Quote: I do have one more question though. What was the general concensus, inside the UN, as far as giving the weapons inspectors more time before an invasion occured? Hrm. From the general consensus view, I'd say that most would like for it to continue, but realized the UN didn't have the true resources. Similar to the problem of having 5 fingers to plug 9 holes in a leaky ship. The UN was limited, and the UN Disarmament representative put it bluntly, that the UN cleaning services had a higher budget than the UN Disarmament. The UN is really underfunded and cannot do much, but they try to tell people what needs to be done. Most people realized that, yes, it would have been nice to inspect more, but the resources were not there. And some were just unrealistic in thinking the inspections could continue. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Ulic thank you very much for that information. I must say at the least it was very informative. I'll read the link and the other links from there as soon as I can. The girlfriend comes home for christmas tomorrow before going back for more training. So I'll be in disposed of until the 28th or 29th. When the holidays are over I would love to continue this discusion. I do have one more question though. What was the general concensus, inside the UN, as far as giving the weapons inspectors more time before an invasion occured? This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 20 2003 08:51am. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Hrm. Well, I didn't want to get any real deep discussion going, mainly because of one reason: I've just graduated in Political Science, and have sent most of my work home, as I am moving out of college. So I'm here, but I don't have my references. That being said, I'll do the best I can. I just can't let myself argue anything without citations. Ah! I fond my briefing notes from the UN! All the little hand-written things...so hold on... OK, first off, on 23 June 2003, I was at a briefing at the United Knigdom mission to the UN. At this meeting, we were privelaged to meet with the head of the Iraq section of the UK Mission. He was actually blunt enough to ask himself the question that we all wanted to ask: "Where the hell is the WMD we went to war over?" And indeed, he provided the answer in the form that: There was a lot of adaptable stuff there. Pieces that could go to a WMD device, things that could just be wiring for a new house. Yet, it was pointed out that many of this stuff was hidden. Buried. Etc. So while critics may say that these are components that can be used for anything, it also needs to be pointed out that these items were hidden at great lengths. The gentleman at the briefing did state that there is still the need to fund "substance". Also, in a briefing with the UN Humanitarian assistance, on 16 June 2003, it was stated that they were concerned with aiding Iraq, and (again don't quote me, some scribbled note here), that they were in the process then of relaunching a proposal to increase humanitarian aid. Heh. I'm finding amusement at the German guy. More from actually being there. One, he was a great semantic speaker. And it was humorous that Germany (of all nations) felt that wars are only a last resort. And he had a great line about "Weapons of mass destruction? More like weapons of mass disappearance." Hehe. Just they way he said it. Heh. The German mission to the UN also felt that Iraq war violated international law (IL). More on that if I can, but the basic is that if there was war, we violate IL, if there wasn't we violate IL. So....Germany thus felt it was irrellevant if it was "illegal" or not. Germany sought a solution to the problem. And, I also got to speak with some interrim Iraqi personnel. Main points here are that the UN is involving former Iraqis and even women (the representative was female) in the restructuring of Iraq. Also, another nifty point made, is that the UN didn't really want to do anything. As this delegate stated, it was a Catch-22. The UN did not want to endorse a unilateral action like the war, but didn't want to not help the Iraqi people. So, I think you can get that. But, rolled up, I didn't see many people truly opposed to the war. A lot of them saw that it was what needed to be done, but didn't want to do it, or couldn't. Sort of the "We'd love to help, but we can't break the rules to do it, so we do nothing" philosophy. So when you said Quote: we did not have good enough information to make the assertation that Sadam had any of these things we said he did. The UN said this and that is why they did not back the US in this war. Well, I just meant to point out that the UN did not say "that". They didn't really say anything. Did they fail to back the US? Yeah. But from what I gathered, it was because there were multiple splits. Most everyone really wanted to help. Some would break the "rules" to help, some wanted to keep to certain sets of rules, some wanted to not brak any rules and realized it was impossible, and then there were those that just wanted to be French. (Had to get that in, I'm not even saying anything about the France mission to the UN.) But basically, the UN did want to happen what did happen: to help the Iraqi people first and foremost. But they were undecided on how to do that. And some just broke the rules by sitting back, and some broke them by going forth to war. But, well, the way the fuckhead journalist do it is to point out the IL that was broken by going to war, and not the IL broken by sitting on one's ass. Fuckhead journalists. Anyways, as for the IL part, I have my "big book of international law" at home. And I mean big. Summary of everything, it's like 5 Bibles put together. But I'll give it a shot. Oh, I'll interject this...I have a note for the IAEA and Iraq, in a document S/2002/442 I don't have it here, but it might be found. And my guess is that it has something decent in it. Oh, one thing I do remember from my IL book is that a former Secretary General (I forget who) said two main things that I drew upon for Iraq. 1: Anticipatory self-defence is justified 2: Rules should go out the window when it comes to WMD. Now, this is not official IL, but worth noting his arguments. If I had my book, I would note them. I'll have all this stuff when I get home for Christmas. But anyways....hrmm....I think I'm actually going to leave it be. And I'll dig more. If there is any particular direction you want me to go, I'll look. I was going to go along the UN Resolutions, and THIS IS A LINK to get you started. Really. Read that. And...read damn near all the resolutions they refer to in there. 1441 is good, but a lot of people says it has its flaws in the language, etc. So...go read all the past stuff they refer to. I'm going to scroung it up, but, well, you're big boys. You can read 1441 at the link above. So, lemme know if you want more info. As a graduate now, I'll be able to take the time to track this stuff down. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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I'm just enjoy reading everyone elses posts X. I'd rather not comment on things That I'm not Too aware of or things that I'm not too sure of the facts. My last comments are more based on my opinions. As X said if you have more knowledgfe on the subject, please share. it will make for a more interesting conversation. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Dec 19 2003 11:52pm. |
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Xipkell - Student |
If you have information that could shed new light on the situation please enlighten us. I'm trying to get the whole picture personaly. You and I may not agree but I am always willing to listen (or read as the case may be). As we all have sugested the media likes to keep us all in the dark and feed us more things to be afraid of. Is it me or does it seem you and I have taken over this thread Ulic? If anything I have said has seemed hostile, please understand it was never meant towards anyone here. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Quote: we did not have good enough information to make the assertation that Sadam had any of these things we said he did. The UN said this and that is why they did not back the US in this war. Hrm. You know, as someone who worked/interned at the UN for a month (yes, it is true, this past summer), I'm interested in your backing this up. I had met with many from the UN, and I am interested in how you backed this up. Once again, the media screw up what is really going on inside the UN. All I could say is to actually go into the UN to understand. I'm tempted to play my overwhelming UN experience card, but I'll let this point be backed up. What brings up more curiosity is how much of the resolutions and UN discussions one might have actually read. But go ahead, I need the education, I guess. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Xipkell - Student |
I do realise this but one of the supposed reasons that the French didn't rush to war was they were said to have too much to gain economicaly from the Sadam Husein Iraq. |
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Buzz - Student
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Xipkell, that's how much oil that Iraq put out and who it went to. Fine. But the amount of oil we got from them is a small fraction of the amount of oil that we consume. Maybe that 8% of Iraq's oil exports that France got was 50% of the oil France needs. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Yes I do agree with you that Bush is not the only one to blame. On the other hand this whole war started here in the US. From there they went looking for the coalition of the willing or should I say the coalition of the manipulated and brown nosers. I will list them and what they recieved for their help if you would like. Those that weren't bribed couldn't send a sizable enough of a force to make any difference because their military is too small, otherwise encumbered or they do not have one. Or are you trying to tell me this is a shit rolls down hill type of thing? We seemed to have sorted this out with the Enron scandal but I could be wrong. Now, the whole point is it all started here. Half ass intel or not. In the US we do not convict a man on suspition(spelling brain fart). We convict them when find them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. What I am saying is that we did not have good enough information to make the assertation that Sadam had any of these things we said he did. The UN said this and that is why they did not back the US in this war. We moved way too fast on half truths or completely false information. What it's ok for the government to kill people by the thousands and, when proved the reasons for this are incorrect, be let off the hook? When a man who we happen to think shot some else can't even be brought into custody until we have eneough evidence. In most cases this would be called a double standard but I guess the government is above it's own laws. BTW in 2001 the US was Iraq's leading trade partner consuming more than forty percent of Iraq's oil exports. That's six billion in trade with Sadam. In contrast, only eight percent of Iraq's oil exports went to France in 2001. With that in mind , who would have stood to make more by having stayed out of Iraq? This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 18 2003 08:52pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Well, whatever. A lot of what Bush feels to be truth is likewise backed up by those outside of the US administration, such as foreign countries, etc. So it could just be one big lie, being told by everyone, and Bush is just repeating it. It just seems credible at the time. I am sure that you have said things based on credible ideas at the time, which later turned out to be a bit skewed. But whatever. I think too many people try to blame solely Bush. There are errors, but they are outside the blame of Bush alone. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Xipkell - Student |
Actuallly, if you read the frist point again you will see this. On July 30 Bush said he and he alone is responsible for any words that come out of his mouth. So yes it was him that lied knowingly or not. So being dealt a bad hand is no excuse, as far as I am concerned. If the speeches he and others make have bad or wildly incorrect information that's his fault. He is supposedly the head of the executive branch of the US government. Especialy after being told not to say certain things because they are incorrect. He may not write these speeches but he doesn't have them changed so that they reflect the truth. This information is never corrected until challenged and then, as with the nuclear weapons fiasco, it is blamed on others albeit with lame excuses. Hence Bush's statement on July 30. This statement was made after blaming CIA director George Tenet, who's agency DID tell the White House not to make such a bogus claim. Then the blame went to to Condoleezza Rice's deputy, Stephen Hadley who said he approved the language for the State of the Union address but this looked so lame Bush then had to hold a special press conference on July 30 to make that statement. That those words even need to be said should make an entire nation wonder whether this guy should be the leader of the free world or flipping burgers. This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 18 2003 07:18pm. |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Oh, I'm just meaning to point out that it was not Bush that lied. I'm meaning to point out that he's getting handed a crappy hand, making the best of it, maybe making odd judgement. I think Xip backed that up, as a lot of his points referred to mistakes being made elsewhere and not strictly from Bush. So I made the point I wanted to. The mistakes do not flow strictly from Bush, nor Bush's administration. We can argue about WMDs, etc, but most likely: 1. Errors were made outside the realm of the Bush administration 2. Even more likely, there is a lot that the public does not know (just try and gasp how much secret/top secret/classified stuff there probably is on these issues. 3. Remember the source. Journalism people are fuckheads. That's all I will say. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. This comment was edited by Ulic Belouve on Dec 18 2003 05:50pm. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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Aye, Xip's points are justified in my eyes, I too have read the news between the lines. The facts can easily be found if you'd look for it, which many people don't do because the mainstream media focus on other aspects. |
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Xipkell - Student |
BRAVO Ulic!! Thank you very much for that last post.(I do not mean that sarcasticly) I am happy to find you have all of these facts. Once a again thank you my friend. Nice jab at the semicolons also. I was typing at the same time you were so when I added that comment and saw you beat me to the punch I added most of what is there now. I was too lazy to structure it well. Now, on to business. Quote: Quote: 7 mobile weapons labs, we only found 2 and they were not equiped to produce WMD's; Still, we found two. There may be more. Not any proof that Bush was lying. You got me there but in October the Iraq Survey Group which is administration sponsored said that items critical to manufacturing biological weapons were missing from these vehicles and there was not any trace of biological agents on them. Also an official British investigation into these vehicles concluded "they are not mobile germ warfare labs, as was claimed by Tony Blair and George Bush, but were for the production of hydrogen to fill artillery baloons, as the Iraqis have continued to insist.". OK, we have that and the fact that Powell told the UN "We know that Iraq has at least seven of these mobile, biological agent factories.". Ok, where are the other five? Are you going to tell me that we can not count while using spy satelites and planes? If this is the case and a real threat comes along, we will get handed our heads on a plate. Bad intel will get you killed. So if we assume that they went along with it on half ass intel it was their fault for using that information. Bush said on July 30 he and he alone is responsible for any words that come out of his mouth. Quote: Quote: uranium from africa, officil CIA reports are contrary to this statement; First off, we were basing this on documets given to us from an embassy that later on turned out to be forged. So....how was Bush lying on this? Yeah these were so badly forged that whoever forged them didn't realise that the foreign minister who signed them hadn't been in the government for more than a decade. On the other hand, Joseph Wilson a senior American diplomat was sent to Niger in 2002 on a CIA directed mission to investigate British claims that Iraq tried to buy "yellow cake uranium" from Niger. He concluded the alegations were false. Later, Wilson said "Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the threat.... [The CIA] asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story.. In early March, I arrived [back] in Washington and submitted a detailed briefing to the CIA... There should be at least four documents in the United States government archives confirming my mission.". In July 2003 Wilson also said "It really comes down to the administration misrepresenting the facts on an issue that was a fundamental justification for going to war. It begs the question, what else are they lying about?". I'm not going to touch the beer-brewing kit for yes I have read that but if I had the money and wanted to hire scientists to make nuclear weapons I could probably do that too. Quote: Quote: An independent an well-researched overview of this public evidence was provided by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) on 9 September 2002. The IISS Report also suggested that Iraq could assemble nuclear weapons within months of obtaining fissile material from foreign sources. ---Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction: The Assessment of the British Government Hrm...so someone non-Bush, non-Britain thought the same about WMD? Interesting. Yet Bush was the one lying. Mmm-hmm. On January 27,2003-the day before Bush's State of the Union address- Mohamed ElBaradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, told the UN Security Council that two months of inspections in Iraq had produced no evidence of prohibited activities at former Iraqi nuclear sites. He is also the one that said the aluminum tubes would be useless without modification. According to The Washington Post, Newsweek, and other publications the US and British intelegence officials questioned the assertation that the tubes could be used for nuclear weapons production. UN inspectors said they found proof that these tubes were intended to build small rockets not nuclear weapons. Also they weren't trying to buy them in secret as was said at some point. Their purchase order was accessible on the net. Quote: Quote: Osama being conected to Sadam, Osama publically stated he hated Sadam as much as or more than the US; Well, according to a top secret memo, dated October 27, 2003, sent from Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith to Senators Pat Roberts and Jay Rockefeller: Quote: bin Laden sent "emissaries to Jordan in 1990 to meet with Iraqi government officials.". At some unspecified point in 1991, according to a CIA analysis, "Iraq sought Sudan's assistance to establish links to al Qaeda." The outreach went in both directions. According to 1993 CIA reporting cited in the memo, "bin Laden wanted to expand his organization's capabilities through ties with Iraq." During the first week of February a British Intelegence report leaked to the BBC said there were no links between the two. According to the report, Bin Laden's "aims are in ideological conflict with present-day Iraq.". The Al Qaeda poison and expolsives factory Bush and his coven claimed Sadam was harboring was located in northern Iraq, Kurdish teritory, and out of Sadam's reach for the skys were patroled by US and British planes since the early nineties. The base actually belonged to Ansar Al Isalam, a militant fundamentalist group who branded Sadam an enemy. This was later cooberated by a large group of international journalists upon a tour of the base. Well that about wraps it up for me. If you want to get into semantics, it could be said that noone outrite lied. Then again Nixon said "I'm not a crook.". This comment was edited by Xipkell on Dec 18 2003 10:49am. |
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Sniya - Student 
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We found two TWO! You mean the war was over two weapons.Bush and Blair will need to pull something amazing out thier hat to make me think theyre ok. Im going with the iraqi acientists on this.They claim saddam thought he had WMDs but they werent having much luck with them. _______________ The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do. Bertrand Russell http://www.thejediacademy.net/forums_detail_page.php?f_id=970 This comment was edited by Sniya on Dec 17 2003 07:57pm. |
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CuZzA - Student 
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go ulic! lol _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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OK, let's begin: Quote: 7 mobile weapons labs, we only found 2 and they were not equiped to produce WMD's; Still, we found two. There may be more. Not any proof that Bush was lying. Quote: uranium from africa, officil CIA reports are contrary to this statement; First off, we were basing this on documets given to us from an embassy that later on turned out to be forged. So....how was Bush lying on this? Quote: WMD's where are they? 6 months and we haven't found any; Well, this includes knowing how WMD work. I could build a biological weapon with my home beer-brewing kit. Or it could just be a home beer-brewing kit. But that's my quote. Let's hear what others have to say: Quote: An independent an well-researched overview of this public evidence was provided by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) on 9 September 2002. The IISS Report also suggested that Iraq could assemble nuclear weapons within months of obtaining fissile material from foreign sources. ---Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction: The Assessment of the British Government Hrm...so someone non-Bush, non-Britain thought the same about WMD? Interesting. Yet Bush was the one lying. Mmm-hmm. And Operation Desert Fox. 1998. A lot of stuff was targeted/destroyed. But I'm sure I don't need to inform a military guy of this. Quote: Key facilities associated with Saddam Hussein's ballistic missile program were significantly degraded Also: Quote: Despite his denials, Saddam Hussein is continuing to develop WMD, and with them the ability to inflict real damage upon the region, and the stability of the world. --Tony Blair, Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction: The Assessment of the British Government So...the British PM felt the same way about Iraq WMD, an independent overview by IISS felt there was a nuclear threat, and there were operations pre-Bush that stuck Iraqi WMD. And it is BUSH that is lying. Yeah. Quote: Osama being conected to Sadam, Osama publically stated he hated Sadam as much as or more than the US; Well, according to a top secret memo, dated October 27, 2003, sent from Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith to Senators Pat Roberts and Jay Rockefeller: Quote: bin Laden sent "emissaries to Jordan in 1990 to meet with Iraqi government officials." At some unspecified point in 1991, according to a CIA analysis, "Iraq sought Sudan's assistance to establish links to al Qaeda." The outreach went in both directions. According to 1993 CIA reporting cited in the memo, "bin Laden wanted to expand his organization's capabilities through ties with Iraq." So, bin Laden might not have liked Saddam, but he definately liked to work with Iraq, and the links were there. I have more, but I sent my books home as I am recently graduated. But still, in these reports from 1990, 1991, and 1993, from CIA analysts and others, you still feel that BUSH is the one lying. Sure. Quote: missle tubes that would be to expensive to convert from there original purpose, why spend 100 milion when you can spend 30 or 40; Hrm...low signal-to-noise ratio. Study intelligence, it should explain it. (I'll add a source here later) Also, I'm running out of time here, so I will continue later. But I used quotes from sources, and not just my own rambling with semicolon fun. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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