| Michael Moore | |
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Kueller - Student  |
Hey guys. I know we live in an age where most ppl would rather play a good video game then read a informative book, and I think I'm one of them too. But I wanted to use this post as an eye-opener to some ppl. I recently read the book of Michael Moore: "Dude where's my country." A fantastic book in which he describes what Bush is doing with his presidentship period. A book about the lies of Iraq and Afghanistan, about the way the right of freedom and privacy in america is slipping away every day. I don't know if any fo you guys read his books, I love his show and now this book. The good thing about it is that he uses some good humour and he doesn't discredit people who don't deserve it. I'm not an American, but I think this book is very intersting because I want to know what happens in a country where a lot of good pals of me live. Anyways, I'm nearly starting a rant about why Bush sucks so much, but I think that would be dangerous considering what Bush's goverment has done to ppl who oppose him. All I can say is: READ THE BOOK, IT'S INTERSTING AND DAMN FUN! _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills  |
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Opinion on M.Moore
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Buzz - Student 
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Tell me though Kueller, when was the last time your country had an election where the people who choose to vote "no" on the relection of your tyranical dictator that these people are thrown into jail or killed. The goal of defeating the Soviet Union was seen as impossible as well. Most people thought the US and the USSR were going to end up destroying the world with nuclear winter. That sure did happen didn't it. So how do you know that you can't eliminate terrorism or severely cripple it unless you try. Your fears to me honestly seem as founded as the claims of baghdad bob that were weren't in Iraq or the claim of Saddam that our plans for Iraq was to create a "Greater Israel." I don't suppose you've heard much of the plan on rebuilding Iraq's government. I'm pretty sure the plan is to have a large amount of the organization set up in this next year and a lot of it in the first half. Sure sounds like Bush's plans are to expand the US or "liberate" other countries. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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yeah, they should invade the gaza strip  _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Kueller - Student 
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I'm glad they sorted the mess, but why with so many more casualties. And when is the US gonna stop invading all countries that oppose them. Because I'm really scared, I'll just say how most ppl on this side of the big water see it. We're afraid that Bush (and maybe following presidents) are gonna come and "liberate" the living daylight out of all sorts of countries. I can't see why bush can't see that you can't destroy terrorism, and most ppl here just think that he wants as much oil as he can get his pawns on. The reason why some of the European guys are so bent on giving Bush the kick in the shins is because we're afraid where it's going to. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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Buzz - Student 
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And wouldn't you rather see people trying to clean up the mess they made rather than just going "oops we screwed up but we'll let the maniac in power with the ability to now make these weapons on his own once sanctions are lifted." Should any country give weapons? No of course not. But they do and hopefully we've learned a better lesson and won't let it happen again. Also for the Crap about Cheney's former company doing business in Iraq. There was a little news blurb that they actually saved the US money by using fuel from Turkey rather than Kuwaiti oil. The Turkish Oil was cheaper. This is probably something no one really heard about but if they were found doing something wrong and costing people more money it would have been headline news. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This comment was edited by Buzz on Jan 11 2004 05:23pm. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Oh, and... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108046,00.html So much for the fantasy that Bush "lied" about Saddam's chemical weapons. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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Another lie. The U.S. sold some weapons to Iraq during its war with Iran (about 1% of the weapons it purchased during that time), before the higher-ups in U.S. defense began worrying about just how bad our Iraqi ally was. The vast majority of Saddam's weapons were purchased from the French, Germans and Russians--including some in the days leading up to the war. This is a fact. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Kueller - Student
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You still have to remember that it was the US that gave the chemical and biological weapons to Iraq. It was done via large American companies and it was done to help Iraq beat the shit out if Iran. It sounds kind of Ironic, you give a country weapons, and 20 years later you bomb them (and their ppl with these oh so mughty superaccurate bombs NOT) because they seem to have those weapons. DUHUH!!! THEY WHERE GIVEN! Just read that, and if you don't believe it, read up your articles: In a senate report there is a list of all those sellings by Chairman Donald W. Riegle Jr. and ranking member Alfonse M. D'Amato: "US chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual Use Exports to Iraq and their possible impact on health consequence of the Gulf War" is it's title. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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CuZzA - Student 
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nice comment java _______________ - Even if Carlsberg made "w*nkers", Christiano Ronaldo would still be the biggest "w*nker" in the world |
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JavaGuy - Student
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Oh yeah, the U.N., most corrupt body in the world. Libya currently heads up the U.N. Human Rights Commission! We don't need world government, and we especially don't need a world government in which half the representatives are from dictatorships. Does it really seem good to you that Castro and Khadafi get to vote in the U.N. and affect our policies when nobody in their own countries voted for them or will ever be allowed to vote? The U.N. is a collosal failure and always has been. A little history lesson here, since everybody seems to have forgotten: Before the U.N. there was the League of Nations. One of the big problems the LN faced was Hitler's rearmament. After Germany's defeat in the Great War (now WWI), part of the surrender agreement was that the Germans agreed not to arm themselves with certain types or numbers of weapons (sound familiar?). Hitler broke all those agreements (sound familiar?). One condition was that German troops not occupy the Rhineland. The reason for this was that from the Rhineland the French army had access to the Ruhr, the heart of Germany's economy. If the Germans ever started acting up again, France could march to the Rhineland and cripple Germany's economy in a heartbeat. In 1935 Hitler began secretly moving troops into the Rhineland. The League of Nations did nothing. In March of 1936 he made it official, German troops had orders to occupy the Rhineland. This is important: At that time, even the French could have defeated Hitler's army in the Rhineland if they had invaded. That would have been the end of the matter. But French elections were just weeks away, so politicians were relectant to go to war. The League of Nations did nothing. The French did nothing. Churchill had been calling for a long time for somebody to do something about Hitler, but he was derided as a "war monger" and an alarmist for exagerating the danger posed by Hitler. The Rhineland was Hitler's test for the French. He knew that they could defeat him there but didn't think they had the political will. He wanted to see what they would do. What they did was absolutely nothing, so Hitler continued to arm and fortify, and the rest is history. Weapons inspections were Saddam's own Rhineland. Saddam refused to let U.N. weapons inspectors do their jobs. Like Hitler, he was testing. He wanted to see if he could simply flout the treaty. The U.N. responded with bluff and bluster and, ultimately, by doing nothing. History has already shown where this one was going. (And yes, we have found many weapons in Iraq that are explicitly prohibited by the 1992 treaty. We haven't found the chemical stockpiles yet, but we know for a fact he had them before and that he didn't get rid of them. There's a thing in physics called Conservation of Matter that says things do not magically disappear.) Ironically, if the French and English had done the right thing and stomped Hitler then and there in the Rhineland, the anti-war crowd could have claimed that the quickness of his defeat proved that Hitler was never a real threat to begin with and that those who opposed him were war-mongers. This has been the tactic of those who opposed war with Saddam. "See? He wasn't that dangerous! Appeasement would have worked!" The same crowd said that bin Laden wasn't that dangerous until he was, then demanded why something wasn't done earlier. Like the League of Nations, the U.N. is institutionally incapable of stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility when hard decisions need to be made. Plus, when deciding whether to let a brutal regime continue to be brutal, other brutal dictators get a vote in the U.N.! You can guess what kind of a precedent those dictators would like to set on the subject of punishing dictators. I'm danm proud of my nation for flipping off the U.N. and gathering a coalition of those willing to do the right thing. I was especially glad when they found those missiles tipped with the dual-chambered gas warheads, which have only ever been used for sarin gas. No they didn't find the gas, but sarin is highly volatile and is generally not just left lying around--That's why the dual-chambered warhead, in fact: It is actually mixed in flight to its target. It still baffles me that people can look at stuff like that and pretend we haven't found weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is a huge place, and chemicals are easy to hide. Saying those missiles weren't chemical weapons is like finding a loaded gun on a robber and saying he was unarmed because the safety was on. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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Of course everyone is glad Saddam has been removed from Iraq, although it might take a very long time, the area might stabilize now. But the only future of the world, in this increasingly dangerous times, lies in the future of the UN. We must work to more international cooperation and international law. To me it seems the US are holding back that process by ignoring the UN, refusing to recognise the UN International Court in The Hague (i think out of fear for being prosecuted) and refusing to cooperate with Kyoto, being one of the major pollutioners. On purpose or not, this attitude must change in the world. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Xipkell - Student |
I'm done with this. We all have our points of view and I have already spent who knows how long on with this topic. One more thing, MassaDoobie those are my words, based on my opinions, not some politcal rhetoric.   |
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JavaGuy - Student
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It's preposterous to suppose that the people in the countries that weren't in the coalition were all opposed to the war. That assumes, among other things, that everyone in Iraq was against liberating Iraq from Saddam. In reality the vast majority are glad to have him gone. Moreover, the majority is not necessarily right. Most of the countries that opposed the war were dictatorships whose people had neither any say in their governments' actions nor access to free press to give them even a semblance of the facts to make an informed decision. I don't care if a billion people living under Islamic dictatorships, spoon-fed state propaganda all day and prohibited from reading Western books think that the war was a bad idea. 85% of those same people believe that Jews eat children (well, kill them and use their blood to bake cookies actually, which is what most Arab state newspapers say the Jews do). Do you give that idea the same credence just because such a large percentage of the world believes it? _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Xylo Phorus - Ex-Student |
Umm, JumpinJedi...you need to check your sources. The economy is growing faster than it has in 20 years. _______________ "¿En qué puedo servirle hoy?" This comment was edited by Xylo Phorus on Jan 10 2004 02:00am. |
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Buzz - Student
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Clinton did a great job? Sure some things went well during Clinton's time. Along with all of his scandals, a few friends of his deaths, people going to jail and refusing to testify in the Clintons' involvement in the whitewater scandal. Do you think the stuff with Enron and other companies just started happening Jan. 21, 2001 or something? The things that started this happened while Clinton was in office. Bush inherited a slowing economy, one that was further damaged by what happened with the world trade center attacks. Clinton is the reason we had the situation in North Korea because before him there were no appeasement methods to hostile nations. It was never "give us money and food or we'll keep building bombs." Clinton was offered Osama Bin Laden on several occasions by foreign countries and didn't take him. If you'd like to see and e-mail to "thank" bill clinton for all the wonderful things he did I'll be glad to show it to you JJ and anyone else who would like to see it. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This comment was edited by Buzz on Jan 10 2004 02:05am. |
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The way I see it, from, for once, a sober point of view, is Bill Clinton did a great job as president. So what if some inturn gave him head? Does this effect his ability to run a country? I highly doubt it. Bush has simply pissed on the accomplishments Clinton achieved. The economy is going to shit, and the "war" isn't helping. |
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Buzz - Student
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Ulic I'd suggest you read Ulic Belouves responses in the view on the war thread. Going to war violated international law and was illegal, but so did not going to war. And I really don't like the democrats Doobie. I think Bush has done a better job than most of them could have in the situation he's been given. Not to mention Dean pretty much implying that maybe Bin Laden didn't know about 9/11 even though there is video proving he did. I frankly think that niether democrats or republicans can do a good effective job in running the country. They've both go their hardline issues they refuse to budge on and claim that their way is the only way such as raising or lowering taxes to help the economy. If done properly both probably can help the economy. The problem is that you drop taxes the government probably won't reduce spending, and if you raise taxes they're just going to increase spending, likely to their salaries since congress are the ones that decide whether they get a raise or not. Xip, you've made claims that ##% of the world population is for or against the war. You pointed out that the 20% that was for it several of those countries population had an opposition to it. But can't you make the exact same statement for the countries governments that did oppose the war. Maybe some country in there was split 50/50. Also don't forget Congress gave Bush the permission to go to Iraq. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Kueller - Student
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And of course the fact that, even though it is respected, most ppl don't think the UN is the law. I can imagine jumping to war if you feel threatened by all those threats by weapons, even though it's a bit foolish to give a country like Iraq biological and chemical weapons to use in a war with Iran. But, that was a different time and hasn't got to do with Bush jr. I still think he should have given more thought to the act, I like to think he forged the evidence because he was so afraid of Iraq. But even if I think that I still feel afraid, in a way. Because, who is next? How long will this continue? Well, I hope the democrats are finally go to let a good candidate run their election. Like that general, or Oprah _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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Ulic |retired| - Student
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Democratic governments are indirectly chosen by the people. It is therefore not entirely correct to state that 80 percent of the world population was against the war. A Government has thousands of specialists in service who can form an opinion, a normal person has not. The problem with Iraq was that the procedure was illegal in the eyes of the United Nations. THAT is the dangerous and wrong part of course one could argue that the UN has lost effectiveness because it clings to old proportions, but the actions that were taken undermine the authority of the UN which is highly regrettable. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Octavius - Ex-Student 
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Mike moore is either a hero or a demon, depending on your views of the world and the government. Now, he is bashing Bush, but a few years ago, in the Clinton era, he was throwing punches at him. Micheal moore seems to be a negative person who always points out the awful and bad in something. But is hardly seen trying to fix the problem or pointing out the good in our nation _______________ What we do in life, echoes in eternity. |
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Crunchy - Ex-Student 
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Sorry if you view this as off topic. Another book I read about coruption and stuff is called "Fast Food Nation." check it out at amazon.com It was a real eye opener to the fast food industry and meat producers for me. At the end of this book there are almost 40 pages of references to what was talked about in the book. I think everyone should read this book. You might even have it at your local library. _______________ Windows95: <win-doz-nin-te-fiv> n. 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
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doobie - Jedi Council 
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Quote: I guess us American's are just too damn proud to listen when others have any advice, except what we want to hear. Hey, easy with the political rhetoric there buddy. That statement is extremely stereotyped and unbiased. Most American I know think Bush is a fraud, but they realize it's much easier to even have a chance at getting rid of him through the election than through any sort of trial... only problem is the Democrats haven't really shown anyone who can unite the country very well (Howard Dean doesn't count, he's looks too much like a robot). _______________ -Academy Leader/Dictator/Defeater of DJ Sith and JACen Solo in the JAK+ Tournament -I do think it (the JA) will help convert dozens, maybe hundreds, to the dork nation... --me |
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Xipkell - Student |
Hey Buzz, it's me again with, guess what, a list of the so called coalition of the willing. Here goes: Afghanistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Bularia, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Palau, Iceland, the Soloman Islands, Micronesia, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Trukey, the United Kingdom and Uzbekistan. This list represents roughly 20% of the world population. Long list right? Well let's see, out of that list, who do you think could have contributed much of anything. Well, Morocco did offer to send 2,000 monkeys to help detonate land mines. Quite a few correct? Yes, correct, except countries like Japan and Italy had a larger opposition by their respective citzens than ours. 69% in Italy, 70% in Japan and 95% of the Turkish citizens opposed the war. Umm what happened to these people in power being elected to represent the people of their country and do the will of the people? Now on to the coalition of the unwilling, if you will. Hold on this list is longer than the last. Algeria, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe, and 103 other countries! What do you get if you subtract 20 from 100? That's right 80. 80% of the worlds population was opposed to this war. I guess us American's are just too damn proud to listen when others have any advice, except what we want to hear. As for Clinton, I'd like to know why he was investigated and Bush hasn't been. Who has comited a greater crime? The man lying about having sex or the man who led the coalition of the coerced and bribed to war with half truths, blatant lies and poor speculation. This comment was edited by Xipkell on Jan 09 2004 11:59am. |
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Buzz - Student
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Kueller, Clinton was impeached because he was lieing in a court of law and for encouraging others to lie under oath. If Bush were under some investigation where he was appearing in court and doing the same thing I don't doubt that they would be trying to impeach him. As for the "most of America is against a war without support" blah blah blah blah stuff. Congress approved the US's actions, there was international support just not as much as most people would have liked. Has Bush done stuff that a lot of people probably don't agree with? Sure, but you know what so have most other presidents. Bush also isn't the first US president to be elected with less of the popular vote than the other guy. As for that thing about people being kicked out of the country even though they had US citizen status I'm going to say SO WHAT. What you have can be taken away. Lincoln stopped Habeus Corpus during the Civil War, Robert E. Lee lost his status as a citizen of the US untill Gerald Ford gave it back. When you're at a time in the world where the game is changing and the old rules don't apply, you're going to have to be ready for some new rules even if they don't make sense to you now. I don't have a problem with questioning why, I just don't like the way michael moore does it. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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3th - Retired 
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there's more truth in these jokers' jokes than we get from the government in general. i say John Stewart from the Daily Show should run for president. let Stephen Colbert be his vice president _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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I honestly never heard of Michael Moore before his little speech at the Oscars. I don't think too highly of him because the Oscars was no place to make a political statement. I'm not saying that WHAT he said was wrong, just that the Oscars was no place to do it, especially at the time. People tuned into the Oscars to maybe forget about the war for a little while. IMHO, he has no class and I have no respect for him. _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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