| Kensai Hilt Pack Removal | |
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n00b - Student  |
Tonight I noticed that one of our players was using a staff that appeared to be longer than normal. I made him (or her) aware of it, but they did not believe me, so I looked in the Kensai_JA_Hilts.pk3 and here is what I found: Goldenbone_Staff { name "Goldenbone_Staff" saberType SABER_STAFF saberModel "models/weapons2/dual_goldenbone/dual_goldenbone.glm" soundOn "sound/weapons/saber/saberon.wav" soundLoop "sound/weapons/saber/saberhum4.wav" soundOff "sound/weapons/saber/saberoff.wav" saberColor random numBlades 2 saberLength 40 saberStyle staff throwable 0 singleBladeStyle heavy singleBladeThrowable 1 brokenSaber1 brokenstaff brokenSaber2 brokenstaff twoHanded 1 } Notice the saberlength variable is set at 40. I then looked in Assets1.pk3 to find the length of one of the built-in staves and found this: dual_1 { name @MENUS_STAFF_HILT1 saberType SABER_STAFF saberModel "models/weapons2/saber_dual_1/saber_dual_1.glm" soundOn "sound/weapons/saber/saberon.wav" soundLoop "sound/weapons/saber/saberhum4.wav" soundOff "sound/weapons/saber/saberoff.wav" saberColor random numBlades 2 saberLength 32 saberStyle staff throwable 0 singleBladeStyle medium singleBladeThrowable 1 brokenSaber1 brokenstaff brokenSaber2 brokenstaff twoHanded 1 } Notice the saberLength variable is 32. Also notice the singleBladeStyle variable is set to heavy (red) on the Goldenbone staff and medium (yellow) on a default staff. I looked up the default length of a single saber and I found they are set at 40. So, the Kensai staff hilts are too long and explains why I was getting hit at single saber length. I think this is more than enough reason to remove these and all hilts that change the default nature of the saber staff. Feedback is welcome. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This post was edited by n00b on Mar 01 2004 01:01am. |
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| Comments |
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Buzz - Student 
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Noob you said that the blades are too short when made to the length of 32, but the length of 40 is an overcompensation. So somewhere between those 2 numbers must be the correct length compensation right? its only 8 numbers to go through so you should be able to figure it out. That also doesn't take away from the fact that some of the hilts have red as its single stance instead of yellow. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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3th - Retired 
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hey Ancient Jedi, i would take a screen shot of anyone that is being rude to you on the server. we try to teach respect and honor here, and that kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated. even in private messages. i'll throw in a five to the pizza fund!  _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Menaxia - Student 
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YAY - what kind of pizza? *gate-crashes Lancer's house for pizza* _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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Lancer007 - Student 
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Yeah well Im glad thats settled Lets go eat some pizza. This comment was edited by Lancer007 on Mar 03 2004 04:23pm. |
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Frosty - Ex-Student 
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AJ I agree with you the difference is not big and it would be a pity if the pack is removed....(lol I love those sabers~~) but pls don't go too angry over it my buddy bad to the health..  _______________ I'm leaving, on a jet plane~ |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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nice work.  _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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n00b - Student 
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Tonight I modified the Kensai staves to have default saber lengths to see how it looked. Bad news, they are shorter with the default length of 32. What I found is that the Kensai staff hilt models without the blades are shorter than the built-in ones. I would even imagine the length of 40 was put on them to compensate for that loss of length. Unfortunately, its an over compensation  Another thing I found is that all of the built-in hilt models are exactly the same length. So, with the blades on or off they are all the same length (the Guardian looks longer but the distance between the emitters is the same as the others.) What really needs to be done is make the cool looking Kensai hilts the same length as the built-in ones. Even the Maul hilt in the other saber pack is longer with the blades on. This is sucky. I think modders should really plan the lengths of these sabers better. If you would like to see a picture of all these sabers lined up next to each other, let me know and I'll e-mail you the pic. What I want to know most of all, is how the game actually determines the true range before scoring a hit. My assumption at the moment is that its the distance bewteen the end of the blade and the hand (visible distance.) I'll see what I can find out. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... |
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Ancient - Ex-Student 
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I will be happy if someone mod that.... thx for your valuable comment, lianiotte . And sorry for the overboard....just really think too much here. _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Lian Del Rey - Student 
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I'm all for removing the Kensai hilt pack, although it can easily be modded to shorten the blade. Menaxia, I've been waiting for somebody to mention that Sith Saber... It's an INSANELY huge blade, and that, my friend, is DEFINATELY something you need to call a "n00b s4b3r." I don't need to explain why. Ancient, aren't you getting a little overboard? The hilt's cool is what you say, but you're getting a little- yeah- overboard. You know somebody can mod it — are you going to get mad about that, too? _______________ slorp |
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Lian Del Rey - Student 
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Ancient Jedi, you look mad. WHY? _______________ slorp |
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Ancient - Ex-Student 
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END OF STORY _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Buzz - Student 
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No kidding. Most people have been commenting on the alteration these hilts are causing. No one has been bashing any of the saber stance here so stop taking it that way. This is about specific hilts, not the styles that they use. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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n00b - Student
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Please stay on topic. This thread was not about saberism, it is about the Kensai Staff Hilts. I started this thread to have a logical discussion about the longer sabers. In no way am I implying by this thread that staff is cheap or unfair. I am sorry that some people feel that way about the staff and I am sorry you have to hear complaints from these people. I made no such comment in game, here, or anywhere. People that can remember my feelings about staff from months ago can affirm this. I saw the staff was longer and wondered if anyone else had doubts about its use. Nobody wants the saber staff removed here in the Academy. The staff is part of JK3 and its use will always be welcome here. If you love staff, you have found the perfect home to perfect your styles. I would like all saber staff wielders to fight our "Jedis in Training" with the normal sized staff. The longer staves, in my opinion, are for expert players and private servers. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Mar 03 2004 12:59am. |
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tarpman - The Tarped Avenger 
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And in case anyone is wondering, yes, it would be possible to hard-code things like saber length into a mod, and make that hard-coding cvar-toggleable for admin management. _______________ Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Quote: I think Ozzcoz has the best solution here. Just add it into the next mod and end of story. Until then it won't hurt ppl to battle slightly more difficult opponents as they are likely to find on public servers (anyone seen that insanely long sith sceptre yet??). I know what Ancient Jedi means when he says he gets stick (pardon the little pun) from using a staff. The expression i hear used particularly in the JA, is 'nooB stick'. Most ppl who moan about staffers use single or dual sabers and moan about the damage a staff causes. What this minority fails to understand is the compensatory loss of defense. Staff is not superior or inferior to any other style it's just different. *cliche* Why can't we just get on with playing a really cool game and have fun with each other whatever style we use?  1000000000000 PERCENT AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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STOP THE SABERISM _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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I wonder if you guys read my post....or just read the first few sentences. I HAVE TO REPEAT IT THE THIRD TIME, i am speaking for ALL STAFF USER, like ashyr and menaxia, and not only for myself, OK? get me? My frustration is not only aroused by this issue but by the "saberism" in staff for a long time......................... Answer for 3th's question: 3th, actually i have answered the question already....i said remove the saber is fine with me....as long as the academy add three more regular staff hilt to it. And you didnt hear pple said that is because they use PRAVATE MESSAGE, they will not speak out loud, are they??? The reason that this issue piss me off is because i heard too much of these kind of compain already, and do you think these are too much of excuses? _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! |
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Buzz - Student
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Ancient Jedi I have no problem with staff. I think it is a great addition to the game just like dual sabers. I hope to eventually getting around to learning to play as effectively with them as I do single saber. With that said, my problem is with hilts that are altering the set saber lengths that Raven has out into the game and my analogy about guns was to these altered length sabers. They must have had a reason for making the staff slightly shorter than single sabers. I'd be saying the exact same thing if it were a hilt pack of single sabers that were increasing the length as well. This is not an attack against you so please stop treating it as such. Noob, go ahead and contact the creators if you wish. Ask for permission for just our servers and that you won't release them to the public. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Lancer007 - Student 
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Yeah your right ashyr Because the saberism is really becoming pointless.I think ozzcoz's idea should be tryed because It is possible to modify the saber length. Also think the kensai pack isn't cheap because remember the Pole hilt in JK2 I used to think it's increditbly cheap Untill I tryed it out myself and I kept losing for some reason Untill I learned that It isn't how long the saber is or how big the hilt is.Also why bother remove them if it isn't really ultering the hit rate and dammage. |
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Ashyr - Student 
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Wow, couldn't have said it better myself Menaxia. Anyway, obiously the slight range difference doesn't give you too much of an advantage. I use the Takatu, (which I really like by the way so plz don't remove it) and I still loose almost every duel. Maybe I just suck, I don't know. About the analogies you guys were making, I think of it this way: Red Stance single is a shot gun, Staff is a machine gun, and Duels are twin pistols. I have noticed the saberism (staff is cheap, staff sucks, ect.) has toned down a little since the game first came out, now that singles know how to counter it. Yet, no matter how much crap I get for using it, I love the staff. I've wanted it ever since Darth Maul did that dramatic saber activation (you know what I'm talking about). So, let's just use what saber is best for us, and stop fighting about it. Stop the Saberism! _______________ Top ten reasons to get a better computer...|My fan |
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Menaxia - Student
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I think Ozzcoz has the best solution here. Just add it into the next mod and end of story. Until then it won't hurt ppl to battle slightly more difficult opponents as they are likely to find on public servers (anyone seen that insanely long sith sceptre yet??). I know what Ancient Jedi means when he says he gets stick (pardon the little pun) from using a staff. The expression i hear used particularly in the JA, is 'nooB stick'. Most ppl who moan about staffers use single or dual sabers and moan about the damage a staff causes. What this minority fails to understand is the compensatory loss of defense. Staff is not superior or inferior to any other style it's just different. *cliche* Why can't we just get on with playing a really cool game and have fun with each other whatever style we use? _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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3th - Retired
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ancient jedi, i've not heard a single person here at the academy (since i've been here, going on 5 short months now) ever say using a staff is cheating or cheap. chances are if they are saying this on the servers to you, then they are probably just frustrated from losing to you repeatedly. and i would call that kind of behavior very unbecoming to a jedi as well. on the otherhand i wouldn't want anyone using anything outside of the game "standards" as raven has established them, be it however small. so i ask you, why you need this tiny extra edge anyway if it is indeed not a big deal? _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! |
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Zoro Kakashi - Ex-Student 
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 _______________ "When did Noah built the Arc, before the rain, before the rain." |
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n00b - Student 
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I'd say it would be easy enough to make the cool looking hilts with the default range and single saber style. Not a problem. I'll even make the modification if peeps are interested in doing so. I wouldn't really be able to post this possible new hilt pack on any public file servers out there without the author(s) permission, however. I wouldn't want to take the credit for the hilts away from the talented creators. I think the hilts themselves are great, just not the length and single saber style. I'm sorry, Ashwyr, but the Tatakau hilt has a the same range as the other hilts in the pack. I checked all the other hilt packs we have on the server and the single sabers in the Kensai pack. All of them are set at default length 40. Looks like only the staves are longer than normal. I checked the Darth Maul hilt and it is correctly set at a length of 32. _______________ Gone but hopefully not forgotten... This comment was edited by n00b on Mar 02 2004 06:24am. |
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Ancient - Ex-Student
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Especially to Buzz: Your comparison is compeletly out of range here....by the way do you know what is the main purpose of building the bone hilt series? i bet you dont know...it is because they wanna balance the range of staff to other sabers...thats why the silverbone and goldbone have a side that got a equal range to the single saber! Also, for your comparison, that should be staff is orginially a pistol and single saber is a machine gun....and now bone hilt series are just bringing that to balance....machine gun to machine gun. If you think that this is unfair because of the staff got two sided blade...think about this::: SINGLE SABER GOT THREE DIFFERNT STANCE! is that fair? anyone ever concern this issue? NO! More, remove the bone series from the academy is fine with me, if you really wanna to that i cant say anything or actually do anything, since you are a jac and i am just a jas. But, plz add three staff saber hilt back, since there is not much choices for staff player. One more final thing, when you think of something is unfair and wanna make a change...think more about others, not just what you feel....Minority do not have to agree with the Majority pple, right...we, staffer also got right! AND A VOICE IN THE ACADEMY! _______________ -THE ONE WITH THE "STAFF" -BROTHER TO FROSTY -Admitted to University of California, San Diego(UCSD). YAY! This comment was edited by Ancient on Mar 02 2004 05:39am. |
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