| Bush vs. Kerry | |
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Halendor - ex-Student  |
I was just wondering, now it's final that Kerry is going to battle Bush in the elections, who would you vote for, and please tell us why. This post was edited by Halendor on Mar 05 2004 04:38pm. |
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Who would you vote for?
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3th - Retired 
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Quote: Voting for Bush. I have no desire to see my taxes raised, and see terrorists win. Islamic Terrorists need your support. Vote for John Kerry in 2004! there is no way on earth you can remotely be serious... or is there? _______________ this is the internet, be serious damn it! This comment was edited by 3th on Mar 28 2004 09:35am. |
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Rahn del Sol - Student 
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Voting for Bush. I have no desire to see my taxes raised, and see terrorists win. By the way, did anyone else notice how a terrorist strike in Spain caused the people to vote out the "tough on terror" administration and vote in one that'd wave a white flag of surrender? You just know they've got to be thinking, "what if we can get that devil Bush out of office the same way?" Islamic Terrorists need your support. Vote for John Kerry in 2004! _______________ http://steamcommunity.com/id/citizen059 |
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Ecepeexo Utanbar - Student 
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I vote for Obi-Wan _______________ "Before reaching Knighthood, all Jedi make a sacrifice. It is not required by the Master, nor is it a part of the Jedi Code to do so. It happens naturally. A sacrifice which shows your dedication to the Force, and to a new life, based on selflessness. This may be someone close to you, that you come to realize you must let go of in order to follow your path. It may be a certain addiction, or passion for something that would inhibit your abilities. It is not necesarilly your choice as to what you give up, and it is also a mile stone at which will decide your destiny. Choose wisely, and may the Force be with you." ~Jedi Streen |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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I didn't think anyone would take me so seriously on the car point. It was more a jest. But fun seeing the responses anyways. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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I'd like to think he doesn't have a license because of the cocaine and drinking. *rimshot*  _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Buzz - Student 
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The fact of more military involvement preventing 9/11 from happening is not about shooting the planes down. Its about how other things were handled, like attacks on our embassies in Africa or the attack on the U.S.S. Cole and who knows what else. A stronger military response to these events might not have made Al Quaeda so bold to do what it did. And I don't really care what kind of car any of them drive. There are Honda plants here in Ohio so buying a Honda supports the paycheck of people around me. Besides most of them don't even drive themselves. I think I remember hearing Bush no longer has a valid driver's license because of how long its been since he's driven. I don't like things such as that, but what I don't like more is how congressman get to decide on their own pay raises and when they retire receive a tax free salary for the rest of their lives paid by us. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. This comment was edited by Buzz on Mar 24 2004 10:33pm. |
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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Quote: What kind of car does Kerry drive? Is it a foreign car? Or is he really against offshoring jobs to the point where he buys American cars? This is exactly why I think American politics aren't democratic at all. It's all about appearance, not about content. Sure, appearance is important, but these kind of remarks make me sad. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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What kind of car, does Kerry drive, well lets take Ford Motor Company, for example, a "REAL" American car. If he drove a 2005 F-350 Power Stroke Diesel, you would probably say, "Well, I guess he is for American Workers," and if he drove say a Mazda RX-8 an evil foriegn car, you'd say SEE I told you he is a hypocritical bastard. ( Not that both Bush and Kerry arent slick talking politicians full of good ol' american bullshit ) First, if someone is going to buy a "car" ( not a truck or SUV ) I would recommend a foriegn car, unless you like paying for crap. Since most of America, is caught up in the "trendy" truck/SUV buying phase, those are now the most quality built cars in america, oh but guess what is suffering, cars, not matter the kinda, sports cars, economy cars, and even family cars. And lets say Kerry drive a foriegn car, that mean jack shit about where it was made, for example Ford Motor Company, a HUGE American automobile manufactorer also owns these car brands: Lincoln Mercury Mazda ( oh shit these a is foriegn car ) Volvo Jaguar Land Rover Aston Martin So guess what, 1/2 your Ford cars have parts from overseas, and 1/2 your Mazda cars have parts from the US. And would anyone believe that Ford is the ONLY American car manufactorer to be dipping thier hands in mulitple name brands, using workers from multiple countries. So, I know all this cause I grew up, around 10 mins from Ford World Head quarters, like 3/5 cars around me is a Ford, Im sure If I grew up in Flint, MI instead fo Detroit, MI I would know all about Chevy cars, not either one isnt a huge evil, shithole company that wouldnt rather go back to slave labor, instead of giving thier employees a raise, oh yeah while im at Dodge can suck me also, they all blow. Summary: Politicians blow, car companies only give a shit about profit. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Halendor - Ex-Student
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Using the military is pointless if you don't know what to look for. How could the Clinton/Bush administration possible have seen two planes hitting the WTC coming? I think alot of people have too much faith in these intellegence agencies. I believe they know and are able to prevent alot, but the terrorists aren't fools either. If it hadn't been Bin Laden, it would've been some other terrorist organisation. It's a structural problem, and that isn't neccesarily solved with brute military force. Quote: In war there is no Good Guys..... In Theory one mans Hero is another mans Villian....... If look at it from a democratic viewpoint, the 'guys' with the most 'guys' supporting them are the good guys  This comment was edited by Halendor on Mar 24 2004 09:02pm. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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In war there is no Good Guys..... In Theory one mans Hero is another mans Villian....... _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are 
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council
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You prevent attacks with defense, not offense. I'm glad that we didn't kill Bin Laden back then. If we aren't 100% sure he's gonna be there and you might hurt civilians then don't do it. That's how the "good guys" are supposed to act. Look at Israel. They just killed Hamas' leader and opened themselves up for a world of hurt. I read an article in Time about how Kerry was once the head of a group called VAW (Veterans Against War) speaking out against the vietnam war after he served in it. Pretty interesting. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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 - Student |
How could military action have stopped 9/11? I know, let's shoot down a pair of aircraft with civilians on board! Ay yi yi! |
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Ulic Belouve - Student 
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Ah, but remember. For Kerry, it's not a war on terror. It's law enforcement. Unless, of course, he's bashing Bush's campaing ads. Then it's a war. And it's wrong to use a war in campaign ads, according to Kerry. But, er, Mr. Kerry? Didn't you say it isn't a war. Oh, and contrary to what Kerry said, about 2 jobs being lost every minute, that was true way back in about September. Now, 385,000 jobs have been created, which makes the rate: 1.4 Jobs created per minute. Yeah. And another thing, The September 11 panel is finding fault with the Bush and Clinton administration, in being reluctant to use military force, as a reason that September 11 happened. Yet Kerry takes the stance that we should be reluctant to use military force, and only use it when necessary. Strange, Mr. Kerry, Bush and Clinton were reluctant to use the military, and September 11 happened. Now that we have a leader who isn't afraid to use the military, we should replace this leader with someone who is reluctant to use the military. And how will this fix the afformentioned problem regarding lack of military action and September 11th? How we will prevent more attacks, Mr. Kerry? And a question I want to see if others can answer (I'll be looking for the info myself). What kind of car does Kerry drive? Is it a foreign car? Or is he really against offshoring jobs to the point where he buys American cars? I don't know, but either way it would be neat to find out. And I'll add in citations later, my apologies for not citing anything yet, so feel free to bash me on that, if you really want to. _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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Quote: some resistance now, or a few left over radicalist/saddam followers/soon to be the breathing challenged. Then what happened in Madrid? Moscow? Israel? I believe there are still hundreds of people willing to sacrifice themselves to get some attention. The war's not over, I just think this isn't the right way to fight it. Quote: Why should a crazy nut like him be re-elected to be the most powerful man in the world? Er, you consider to be your president to be the most powerful man in the world? This comment was edited by Halendor on Mar 23 2004 03:56pm. |
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Thomasooo - Student 
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ANYONE's better than Bush!!  The man's a maniac and stupid! Why should a crazy nut like him be re-elected to be the most powerful man in the world? I don't have room for all the reasons that he shouldn't be re-elected.. Sheesh!  _______________ In the navy and LOVING it!
Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!
This comment was edited by Thomasooo on Mar 23 2004 12:27pm. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student
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The war IS over, there maybe some resistance now, or a few left over radicalist/saddam followers/soon to be the breathing challenged. The one thing I like about all the Democrats the election was they want to get the WORLD involved in the rebuilding of Iraq, this will: 1.) Rebuild our relations with the UN 2.) Strech out the financial burden 3.) Make sure we arent rebuilding the 51st state btw, Im not saying this is going to make we vote for Kerry, this alone I don't think is enough, but I do consider quite significant. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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StarWarsGirl - Ex-Student 
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I vote for Kerry cuz Bush is completly set on revenge. Personally I want to get out of this war not continue it.If we reelect Bush this war will never stop practically.  Have u seen his reelection campaign things about the WTC? He's twisting his countries pain and using it as a weapon to get reelected. Talk about evil. _______________ Be strong & brave.Don't ever be afraid. Joshua 1:9 Fear is the path to the darkside. -Jedi Master Yoda |
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Halendor - Ex-Student
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Because I started this thread, I feel a little responsible for it. Of course it the outcome of the US elections isn't influenced by this discussion, but for me, this thread still serves several purposes: Firstly, and most important, it shows me how other people think on the situation. The politicians in Holland that are here considered to be 'left' would be looked upon as communists in the US, and the US right-wing doesn't exist here. I enjoy reading Ulic's posts, because it gives me a look at the other side of the story. Same goes for the Same Sex Marriage and Guns topics. Secondly, I like debating, it's too bad I talk to Ulic face to face because he leaves alot of questions unanswered, but this is the easiest way to get close to the US without leaving my own home And thirdly, it improves my English writing skills It's hard to get my opinion across exactly as I want it, in a foreign language, but practice makes perfect... |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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well, I think this discussion got a bit out of hand I've followed this thread from the very first post, and I've read all the posts here, while I kept silent and watched.... and I can honestly say I'm glad I don't live in the USA, cuz I would have no idea who to vote for. Ulic did bring up some nice statements, while the others, like Ruuk and Buzz also brought up some nice statements, and some made me think so, while others made me think otherwise... if you get my point. you all have your own opinion on this subject, which I all respect, and I'm sure you all respect eachothers opinions too But hasn't your discussion gone far enough now? You'll both probably vote for your own person, and what will it matter in the end? I seriously doubt if one vote will make the difference here so no need to try and convince others who they should vote for, and you can say otherwise, but when I read all the posts, and I believe all of you have done it one some level. I agree that if you read this post, I sound like quite the smart-ass. I don't mean to be, and I apologize if I seem a smart-ass. But I've just stated my own opinion. About the voting stuff I have no idea who to vote for, but I'd say Kerry. Give the man a chance, and let's see if he'll do worse/better than Bush. You never know. And heck, if he's really annoying, the Vice-President can summon all the congress (or summat ) and say he wants the president to step down, right?At least, that's what I heard on tv, wouldn't know if it's true or not. Let the future take its course, I'd say. If it's Bush who wins, then don't swear idle. Don't take the Lords name in vain either. It happened, and what are you going to change about it? It's like worrying over an exam you already did, you can't change the outcome anymore, no matter what you do. So let it be, I'd say. Sure you can discuss about this, but you can keep discussing about God too. You can say Kerry will be better for the USA, or you can say he will be worse. Some will say Bush did a bad job, some will no doubt say that he did a good job. It's an opinion, and an opinion (like Ulic said below) can't change a fact. But I don't think there are much hard facts in this cases. Just the Presidentship, and facts like wars, which I hope we'll not have for a long time now. I'm sorry if I'm sounding elitist, or whatever, cause this is not my choice to sound like this. Sincerely --BHB-- _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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{RH} ReaperXIII - Student 
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I say vote for none of the above =D _______________ Master of the almighty BOGONE! (tm) No one can stop me now, unless you stand right in front of me. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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gezellig _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Ulic: Be as scholarly as you want. That's fine by me. You're coming across as condescending though. Stop that. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Monteeeeeee - Nugget 
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Could have a simlilar thread about Blair and Howard.. would be intresting to see other peoples views _______________ If you add me to MSN, tell me who you are
Best Movie Character EVER!! |
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Ulic Belouve - Student
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Well, I'd love to counter each other back and forth, perhaps in an elaborate fashion. That's what I had hoped to bring to this table. I still think many out there wished to be informed. I'll gladly give my time to help others out, and try to inform you with facts. I was hoping that there would be some who would challenge me with other insightful facts, as some have. I would think that reviewing this thread will give a great deal of information to those that are undecided. However, I feel that certain viewpoints aren't backed up adequately. I wish to encourage those viewpoints to seek out something difinitive in supporting their viewpoint. Bandit, you have read the Patriot Act in its entirety. Most people, sadly, have not. I would love to counter or agree on the Patriot Act points with you, so that other observers would rely on what we have read and thought to help guide their opinions. Really, I believe in the people posting here. That they will be informed and seek out the facts of the matter. I don't care what the facts are, but I hope to create more "informed voters". You can be either side, but I don't want people to vote from some sort of "Late Night TV" list of opinions. Most of the voting audience only know of the Patriot Act through the jests and quips and debates shown on the media. I would hope that I have encouraged at least a few to look at it themselves. This extends to all points made here. I wish for people to actually look for themselves. I don't want a population that are upset that they were misled by politicians, when they never take the option of looking into things themselves. Voters feel they have a right to make a decision when they are not well informed. But their leaders and representatives do not afford the same luxury of being uninformed in their decision-making, for the public will not approve. I hope that people will read scholarly articles, make informed opinions, and dig for the facts. You see how Europeans are very well-informed of American politics, for example. I applaude that. The American people, in general (not pointing fingers, OK?), do not know as much about their own politics, much less the politics of other countries. I just hope to, and do it in perhaps an abrasive fashion, get others to stop acting like baby birds waiting for others to puke up information into their waiting maws. Because that's what you get: puke. And there may be golden nuggets of truth in that puke, but you're better off going to the gold mines of information that lie outside the media. And that's where I hope to point each of you. And I hope, and ask, each one of you to at least strive towards that goal, regardless of what side you are on. See those gold nuggets, and seek the facts. Don't be duped by the media. Don't even be duped by me. But that's my speech. I didn't wan't Bandit to go, just wanted him to challenge, to seek. I think he has sought the facts, so I've no frustration with him. But we'll continue on, shall we? _______________ Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. |
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Bandit - Student 
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Ok, I have changed my mind. It makes no sense for me to engage in a contentious debate with you, Ulic. I had planned on a long and elaborate retort to your last two posts until I read the one you just made. While I feel I could prove you wrong on every point we have discussed, I'm sure you would feel the same way about whatever I reply with... I will spare us both the time (as you seem to not have much, either) by being the first to bow out of this thread. But just for the record 1) I have read the Patriot Act (in it's entirety - In case you didn't know, I had been studying to become an attorney but decided to keep working in management instead). I know precious few have, but you don't have to read it to have an opinion on it. There are many way to learn about something other than studying it. 2) While we could probably never reconcile our viewpoints, I do respect you. I wish more people were politically active. I think perhaps you were right when you said that it didn't really matter what was posted here. What matters are the swing votes and who is going to win them, Bush or Kerry. That will be decided out in the public, not here. This forum should be meant to have fun, at least IMHO. While I enjoy debating politics, I don't think this thread has been going in the right direction for an enjoyable debate (and why debate here unless we're having fun?) Cheers, Bandit _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) This comment was edited by Bandit on Mar 21 2004 07:16pm. |
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