| Same Sex Marriage | |
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Battlin' Billy - Student  |
I'm not sure how comfortable everyone is with talking about this subject. So, before I post any opinions, is everyone cool with discussing this? It's quite an issue here in the US right now. In the past, we've been able to discuss controvertial subjects without it getting out of hand. So, does anyone mind discussing this? _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Battlin' Billy - Student 
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WOW! I guess no one minds discussing this. I personally don't see what the big deal is. 1st of all, whether it's made legal or not, it really won't effect most people. If a couple is in love, why shouldn't they be able to make a commitment? I have yet to hear a reasonable argument against it (sorry, religion, IMHO, is far from reasonable). _______________ Midbie Council Member #2 - Profile ID 2073 | Member of B@rtM@ulS@ar | Owner of Monty's 2000th comment & D@RtHM@UL's 8100th comment | Former Padawan of SilkMonkey & Arcuss JA Goaltender & NHL Fan | Fellow Rush fan to Axion|Plo Koon is my oldest JA friend Post your RL pics HERE! | Post you JK2/JK3 screenies HERE! |
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Kueller - Student 
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Well, I think that adoption should be posponed until the whole homosexuality is more generally accepted. I mean, kids bully eachother for the most stupid reasons, and kids killed themselves for being bullied for less than that. But right now kids of homosexual parents will be bullied by almost anyone. It seems that in the Netherlands it has become generally accepted and the whole homosexuality is being accepted even if showed publicy. Point I'm trying to make, if the population is starting to accept the whole homosexuality you can allow adoption, before that it would just be too difficult for the kid. And about the post that was made about all the child abuse in the world, goverment should be looking into that more! If you look at the numbers of child death due to parental abuse it's shocking to see. But over the whole world the goverment still sees it as a private matter where they shouldn't look into. I hope it changes. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills 
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Those kids will be bullied almost all their lives for having either two moms or two dads. Wasn't it the same with black people? Kids were bullied because they and their parents were black. It just took a while before everyone found out that black people are just as normal as white people. I think everyone needs to accept that gay people are just as normal as straight people. edit: unfinished sentence This comment was edited by Halendor on Mar 08 2004 08:04pm. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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*gives an applause to Bandit's post* |
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Bandit - Student 
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I think the government should not only allow gay marriages, but should actively support them. How about spending millions of dollars promoting gay marriage? I mean, Bush is doing that for straight marriages, why not gay marriages? I think there are three good reasons to support gay marriages: 1) Population control. They can't procreate, so less population explosion. With Mormons and the black community populations exploding, we need less children elsewhere. 2) They can adopt! With all the children up for adoption that can't find a home, creating more couples could be a good way find homes for orphans. 3) Promotes loves! With all the hate in the world, why not start promoting acts of love? _______________ Part-Time Player (Weekend Warrior). Recipient of the prestigious "Longest-Post-Ever Award" (bestowed on me by Flash on March 23rd, 2004) |
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Moridin - Student 
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Well, mabey this is getting off of the subject, but I really have to say somethign about Bail's last statement. "The only true sin is to deny what your heart tells you." I cannot agree with this at all. If I do, then there is no basis for wrong or right. How can I see what is right if anything I want is "right"? So, was Hitler right? His heart's deisre was power, and the elimination of all Jews. We called that the holocaust...but it's ok, right? Because if he hadn't pursued it, then he would have been sinning. Sure, it's an extreme end to what you believe, but you have to take what you think and believe to it's logical conclusion. If there is no right but what my own heart desires, then what of Law? What of decency? Ethics? Most people believe that "man" is basically good. I do not. Give people the freedom of only doing their Heart's desires, and you're going to have trouble. Promises would have no meaning. There is only a selfish attitude that wants only what it wants. _______________ Bros. with Janus, Leif, Motrec, Aiden, 3th, Zertz, Kenyon, and Vladarion. b00m! Banana Brother to Garos This comment was edited by Moridin on Mar 07 2004 09:42pm. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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Yeah, well, if you're raised to think of it as 'bad', you'll think of it as 'bad' Letting our god do the judgment seems the smartest thing to do. Sure we've got lots of dysfunctional families. And yes, it is a problem. I agree. But there are good parents out there dude. Believe it or not. Gay marriages isn't wrong in my eyes. However, Gay/lesbian adoptians I am kind of usnure of. Those kids will be bullied almost all their lives for having either two moms or two dads. I'm afraid of the future, if it continues like this. To be honest, I think more children will start fighting, stabbing eachother and stuff like that, just because they are different. I think the world needs a wake-up-call saying "Hello! They're people to!" But too bad it doesn't get through to everyone. Maybe, some day, this kind of things will be accepted without a problem. And I can only hope I still live to see such days. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Sup, What I don't get, about all these god-fearing "religous" people is how judgemental they are. How about according to your beliefs, you just let others be happy, even if they don't agree with you. Let YOUR [Gg]od judge them, as he/she/it will judge you. With so many freakin' dysfuntional families. Abusive husbands, adultary, child abuse, neglect. Maybe we should start favoring gay marraiges to raise our next generation, they can't do that much worse of a job, than I already some these assholes who call themselves "parents" are doing. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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I'd like to quote Antionio Banderas: Quote: The only true sin is to denie what your heart tells you It's what I base my facts on because it's true. As long as a deed comes from the heart, I think it is a good deed. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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well done _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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First, speaking as someone who also lives in the Netherlands, I can say that the seperation of church and state is not always complete. My parents didn't get married because they felt they had to somehow legally affirm their love. They know better than that. However, unmarried couples here face immense legal troubles should one of them die. This is all solved easily by marrying, so marriage becomes a legal act, not just a religious one. My parents aren't religious. Second, a great point people have brought up about all the religious people here against it: who are they to force people to live by their beliefs? On the other hand, I haven't actually seen those same people force anything on this thread. They're stating their opinion according to their own belief system, which is really okay. The only thing I don't agree with is if those people decide to actively limit the freedom of their fellow human beings. Regarding JamesF1, I totally don't understand your argument man. Jacen has a good point. When I turn on my TV, and I see the latest news report, I get really sick to see people are discussing limiting the freedom of their fellow humans. Who are they harming? When it comes right down to it, is there a reason people are offended? "Yes. It's against my belief." Well, gay marriages revolve around something called love. I'm sure any form of faith doesn't disapprove of positive things like love. They make life worth living. Someone on this thread, Ashyr I believe, doubted the validity of love between two people of the same sex, and called it adultry, and "demonic influences". I have to admit that I think that behaviour is extremely dangerous... it's a very agressive way of disapproving, and besides, who are you to make incredibly large claims like that? Love can only exist between people of a different gender? What is the difference between love and sexual feelings? Where do you draw the line? You don't think people of the same gender can experience love towards one another? What makes you think that? Who told you that? And how should he/she know if he/she hasn't experienced it? I'm a bit skeptical towards that statement, especially if all you base it on is your personal faith. Saying two people can't love one another just because they're the same sex is... well. It's wrong. It goes against what my heart tells me. I couldn't think of any other reason that people would actively disapprove. It doesn't hurt anyone. It only encourages freedom and love, and I'm all for that. You think that in the 21st century, we would have gone past that controversy, but we're still arguing whether God has meant for us to love one another. ~Ken This comment was edited by Mookie on Mar 07 2004 09:30am. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student
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But a Catholic can't force his religion on someone. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote: The bible says to kill everybody who dont beleave in God like christs do. In the OLD TESTAMENT those rules applied. But those rules no longer apply - the NEW TESTAMENT rules apply. _______________ Website |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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As far as I know Kerry is against marriage, but for civil unions. Bush is quite the born again and makes no effort to hide it. He won't make any kind of policy that conflicts with his belief. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Silencio - Student 
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I think discussions like these are awesome, as long as it's kept civil and nice. As for gay marriage, I'm all for it. I see no reason for not allowing it. (Religous beliefs is not a valid reason imo, as a religious belief is something very personal that does not apply to anyone but yourself, sorta like being gay ) _______________ Second-in-command of the mighty FiZZsters |
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Daidalus[JAP] Fisto - Student ![Daidalus[JAP] Fisto](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=49&f_height=70&f_image=3482.jpg&f_odd=1){kind=small}
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Quote: I think the USA have seperated Church and state. The Church has nothing to say about how to run the state in a direct way. Realistically, that is about as much seperation as you can get. Indirectly the Church is of course influencing the state's policy, because the people who run it go to Church, and take the words of their preacher (?) back to their work. Youre right in the most ways, but this time Mr Bush wants to win the vote. He beleaves that more voters are against homosexual marriage as their are supporters of it. I bet if his strategy-man would have told him the other way he would have decided to alow it in the hole country. Now the democrates are forced to support homosexual marriage and he hopes they will loose points becouse of it. maybe im wrong and Mr bush acts out of his heart this time, but i even woudnt trust him if he sais that the sky is blue. greetings daid _______________ Founder of the Fisto Family -|- Member of the mighty FiZZsters!! -|- Owner of the second Bail prize for "BAIL RULES!!" -|- I'll never forget you Jaina! -|- Owner of the one and only autograph of Smily -|- SMILY RULES -|- Owner of the 1000th Comment of the great Kueller -|- Big brother to NarCosT Fisto, and ShadowFax . -|- Proud Padawan of Kueller -|-Sir Daidalus Fisto. Official Historian of Nippledom and server to Menaxia, Queen of Nippledom Quote: fiZZe: "gdamubububugmgmgububugrrrrrdsa?"
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SilkMonkey - Distributor of Cold Ones 
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I say let the people do whatever they want. If it doesn't interfere with the way I live my life, they can go for it. _______________ |-HK-47 -SilkMonkey: You are receiving a warning for being_too_sexy. If you do not stop, action will be taken against you.|| (11:13:43) � Virtue dances for Silk ||Smiling owner of Smilykrazy's 6000th comment =) ||Odan Wei's Proud Big Brother|| Janus is my official TaruTaru Cuddly Animal Type Person. ||(@Virtue) Or you could just be a man and set fire to your genitals.....you won't fall asleep for days after that.......trust me.||Thomas Skywalker er for sexy for sitt eget beste!!!!| Not changing sig until the JA loosens up. (Started: Aug 31, 2005) |
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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Quote: Gay marriage has NOTHING to do with drugs or guns, it's about love, just like heterosexual marriage. Yeah we're really a 'make love, not war' kind of country |
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Kueller - Student 
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Quote: The bible says to kill everybody who dont beleave in God like christs do. Do that give you the right to kill other ppl? There are great wars becouse "the bible says..." or "the coran says ...". I dont think it's good to argument with bible laws. That would be as right as it was in the middle age where they burned hexes becouse somebody says they have relations with the devil. Totally agree with this Daid  I believe in the esoteric. And the view I have about it is that if two souls are deeply in love with eachother they should have the chance to seal that bond. I think that forbidding this marriage will cause this ppl to feel deep pain, I don't get it, America claims it's a free country for religion and for equal rights, and yet they discriminate the homosexual ppl, I for one don't get it. And about the part where ppl don't understand Holland bans guns etc, and allow Gay marriage. It's just the point I make, we don't want to be discriminating ppl or cap them in their own personal freedom. Gay marriage has NOTHING to do with drugs or guns, it's about love, just like heterosexual marriage. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills
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Nero - Student 
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Well I think it's really hard to determine if it is alowed or not. Before you can even start thinking of it you must determine if we are talking about the political aspect of it or about the religious aspect of it. I think that politics are not alowed to involve in matters like this. They can make laws yes, but they should count for all people as 'logical' and should be involved with crime instead of people who love each other and want to show that. A religion is alowed to involve in such matters, it's just what they think and if you do not agree with it, then you don't. No-one is going to blame you for it. If you are gay and you want to marry then just accept that your religious group does not support your thinking. What I'm trying to say is that politics should not involve in such matters, but I think a religious group has the right to disagree with it. (so gay people are alowed to marry in a non-religious way) _______________ -Nero Quote: Curious, Smartass, what else? |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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Strictly speaking it should be impossible for a president in trias politica system to begin and end his speeches religious. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Halendor - Ex-Student
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Quote: Although the US claim to be THE democratic and modern state, it knows no strict separation of church and state and is therefore obviously not. I think the USA have seperated Church and state. The Church has nothing to say about how to run the state in a direct way. Realistically, that is about as much seperation as you can get. Indirectly the Church is of course influencing the state's policy, because the people who run it go to Church, and take the words of their preacher (?) back to their work. You can't stop this unless you force everyone to stop believing, which is as discriminating as not letting gay people get married  |
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JamesF1 - Student
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Quote:
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Quote: interesting view.. so your saying is a couple is unable to concieve a baby. they shouldn't marry.. I said if it CAN'T not if it DOESN'T If you get what I mean. No, you all misunderstand me. I mean, man+woman CAN produce children (although, in some cases they don't WANT to, or there is a problem). man+man or woman+woman cannot produce children at all - its not possible. I'm not just talking about marriages here - I'm talking about the whole ethic of gay and lesbian relationships. I think its wrong anyway. What if the woman/man can't? _______________ Website |
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Halendor - Ex-Student
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Quote: a state encourages people to have kids, because thats what keeps a state/country w/e alive. marrige is the subject to that. u get some lower taxes and other benefits. that does not apply to same sex marriage. if its for religious marriage ceremonial, yes, im all for it. but the official law-wise same sex marriage, no. What about the one-child policy in China? What about enormous amounts of money pumped into projects to educate people about birth control? And your saying because you're gay, you're not allowed to have the same benefits as straight people. That doesn't seem fair to me. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student
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'modern', 'democratic' states should follow the guidelines of the trias politica by Montesquieu. Separation of the powers, and VERY important, separation of the State and the Church. Of course you can follow eg the Bible in certain matters and involve religion in politic parties. However, I think a 2000 year old book could be used as inspiration, not as rulebook. Religious parties are ok, and religious thoughts are ok, as long as they don't interrupt the humanrights, and the constitution. Although the US claim to be THE democratic and modern state, it knows no strict separation of church and state and is therefore obviously not. _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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