| Evolution vs. Creation | |
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JamesF1 - Student  |
Nice hot topic to discuss - what are your views? Obviously, I think CREATION is t3h 0wnz0r  _______________ Website This post was edited by JamesF1 on Apr 05 2004 12:47pm. |
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Well?
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Ok, so does everyone agree that evolution and creation can co-exist? _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Kueller - Student 
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I believe both of them, I think there is a force at work that started the Big Bang, and that there is a force (call it God, Allah, Boedhha, The Force) that is within anything. I believe that everything science has discovered is true, like the evolution theory, but there are ppl that think that things only exist if science proves them, I have seen things in my life that can't be explained by science (yet). As of now, science is discovering that the aura that some ppl can see is really there. A sort of biomoluculaire plasma that is within our body and from the outside. I think there is a force that connects us with everything else, our worse enemies, best friends and even rocks. And I don't believe we can hurl lightning with that force, but we CAN use it to heal ppl, or harm them if used with hate. This is how I feel about the world and how I give meaning to it. I'm a great fan of science and of religion, but appaled that the two must always fight with eachother. I think there is no choice between them, but the truth lies (as in almost everything) inbetween. _______________ Personal sleepness-nights-supporter of Virtue. Owner of the 1000th comment of Daidalus and 1943th comment of Gradius! Owner of the 300th comment of Carda! -Taught Gradius all his laming skills 
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Casual - Student 
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Ooh Ken nice one. My favorite movie. -Cas _______________ Thanks to the human heart by which we live, Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. |
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Mookie - Ex-Student 
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I believe in the Force. No really, think about it. The theory of evolution is not fool proof or self sufficient to me. I don't believe it, it's not the truth (or at least, not the complete truth). Yet if I say I don't, people will assume I believe in a God... why are they mutually exclusive? I personally don't believe in a human like being drawing concepts of the human body and putting it on Earth, no. But I believe there are other forces at work which science has not comprehended (yet). Edit; as for DJ's comment: Quote: ...I believe evidence that I can see with my own two eyes... For that argument, I just pull up the quote from the movie "Contact"... "Do you love your father?" "Yes. Yes, I do." "Prove it." This comment was edited by Mookie on Apr 06 2004 12:39pm. |
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Menaxia - Student 
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Please explain to me why this is an either-or situation. I do not hold the opinion that the two are mutually exclusive. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Evolution forever  _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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I believe evidence that I can see with my own two eyes, like an australiopethicus skeleton. The Bible ain't evidence to me. Evolution all the way. _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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That's kind of what I said Dicemaster. I mean, it really doesn't matter if we were "created" or just evolved from something else. What matters is that we ARE evolving. Our minds, our skin colors, our technology. If you take a look into the past and see how people acted, how they thought, and even how long they lived, we have evolved a great deal since then. Everytime you catch a cold, your body "evolves" to make you immune to that cold for the rest of your life. The cold evolves as well but the point is no matter how big or small the change is, evolution occurs in all species. People care too much about where we came from. They don't look far enough into the future to see where we're going. It doesn't matter if God created us or not, because the fact is we are a race that is going to kill itself off, taking any God along with us. The real answers to all of life's questions reside in human nature. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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Dicemaster - Student 
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First off...bout the bible, it was written by man, but they say in the bible that god told the men what to write. Thats what i believe. Secondly i believe we were created. However, i do not disagree with evolution. I believe god made humans, and and started other animals...but if you look at humans there is nothing to support we have evolved from anything. However in other animals there is proff of evolution, such as i believe 10-20 different species of finch, each best suited to eat the food available in the area it lives. Humans "evolve" by making coats to keep us warm, or cars to travel farther. Animals evolve the other way. I believe god did have a hand in everything however, and he started all of them off, but he concentrated his efforts on the humans, to make them right the first time. -Dice _______________ Dicemaster |
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Nae`Qwin-U(JAS) - Ex-Student 
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i far beileve in evolution. just b/c i dont beileve in everything in the bible..only b/c it was written by mad and everything man creates has its flaws...ya know lol well i am a chrisian/realist so i put science hand in hand to the relgion _______________ There is a time when time itself stands still, and the blood of ur enemys rise above the soil (Member of the group OJO) (married to the wonderful Darth Rane) |
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JavaGuy - Student 
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My father, a devout Christian and a Harvard biology major (obviously a believer in evolution), used to get a kick out of telling Creationists to quit trying to tell him what kind of creation Almighty God was or wasn't capable of. _______________ My signature is only one line. You're welcome. |
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Buzz - Student 
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There are theories out there (their name escapes me at the moment) that we are so complex that our creation could not have happened by mere chance. That a higher intelligence had to have had a hand in our creation. _______________ When you are going through Hell, keep going. -Sir Winston Churchill. Those who seek power and control of others, no matter the level, no matter the intentions, should never be given it. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student
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You see what you started Captain? Who says that evolution and creation couldn't happen together. Perhaps there is a God and he created us (and the human eye), why couldn't we still evolve. If God did create us to be a certain way and it was in such a way that we couldn't adapt to our surroundings, why couldn't evolution take place then? People are always trying to seperate evolution from creation. perhaps creation just happened first. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Interesting to get people's views though _______________ Website |
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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Which is why I think this discussion is pointless  |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
No. Nor can you prove that creation is the case. It's impossible to prove either thing 100%. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Evolutionary scientists admit, there is absolutely no proof for evolution. They have not even found one fossil that proves evolution (only that certain animals existed). _______________ Website |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
And where is the proof that God exist? Have we ever witnessed God? No? No actual proof of him? Then get lost. What you're saying isn't supporting God, to my mind... it's saying evolution isn't correct, which I still disagree with, but it never gives any support for the creationists. |
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JamesF1 - Student
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Let me just shoot down evolution here: 1) Consider the case of the human eye and ask yourself whether or not such a complex and intricate optical system could ever have developed through random-chance mutation alone. When a baby is conceived in its mother's womb, the genetic DNA code governing the eye programs the baby's body to begin growing optic nerves simultaneously from both the optic centre of the brain and from the eye. A million microscopic optic nerves begin growing from the eye through the flesh toward the optical section of the baby's brain. Simultaneously, a million optic nerves, with a protective sheath similar to a fibre-optic cable, begin growing through the flash towards the baby's eye. Each one of these one-million optic nerves must find and match up to its precise mate to enable vision to function perfectly. We are generally impressed when highway engineers are able to correctly align two thirty-foot-wide tunnels dug from opposite sides of a mountain to meet precisely in the centre. However, every day, hundreds of thousands of children are born with the ability to see, their bodies having precisely aligned one million separate optic nerves from each eye to meet their matching optic-nerve endings groups out of the baby's brain. Anyone who thinks this miracle of design happens by chance probably still believes in Santa Claus. 2) Darwin didn't even believe his own theory. He said, "Evolution could never have produced anything as complex as the human eye." 3) Want to appreciate the complexity of the eye? Listen up. Your retina is thinner than paper, yet its tiny surface (once inch square) contains 137 million light-sensitive cells. The millions of specialised cells in your eye can analyse more than one million messages a second, and transmit them to the brain. And did you know, scientists have proven that part of the image you 'see' is produced in your EYE BEFORE being sent to the brain. Lets just go a little deeper. Lets quote Dr. John Stevens: Quote: To simulate 10 milliseconds of the complete processing of even a single nerve cell from the reina would require the solution of about 500 simultaneous non-linear differential equations one hundred times and would take at least several minutes of processing time on a Cray supercomputer. Keeping in mind that there are 10 million or more such cells interacting with each other in complex ways it would take a minimum of one hundred years of Cray time to simulate what takes place in your eye in a second. If we were to attempt to dupicate the computing power of the human eye, we would have to build the world's most advanced computer with a single enormous silicon chip that would cover 10,000 cubic inches and contain billions of transistors and hundreds of miles of circuit traces. The retina is so small, it fills only 0.0003 inches of space. If we could ever build an extremely advanced device to mimic the human eye, the single enormous computer chip would way 100 pounds, in comparison to the human retina that weighs less than a gram. The retina operates with less than 0.0001 watts of electrical charge. To duplicate the retina's abilities, the imaginary computer would need to consume 300 watts of power. In other words, the retina is 3,000,000 times more effecient in its power consumption And you want to tell me random mutations created that? 3) Moving on from the eye to the theory of evolution in general. In a desparate attempt to navigate around the proof against evolution, evolutionary scientists stated that "over an extended period of time, even the most unlikely (or impossible) events become possible". Using the analogy of an alien being that lives for one hundred million years whom he presumed would have a quite different sense of time, Dr. Richard Dawkins suggested that an extremely unlikely event, such as four bridge players each finding an extremely lucky hand of cards containing a perfect bridge hand (ace through king), would be something that a long-lived alien would not be especially surprised to witness. While a perfect bridge hand for four players - each one being deailt every single card of the thirteen cards needed (ace, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, jack, queen, king) would be extremely unlikely to occur within the lifetime of a regular human bridge player, Dawkins suggested that, if you lived long enough, even such an unlikely event would inevitably occur. Actually, Dawkins went further into his analogy. He suggested that such an alien living a hundred million years "will expect to be dealt a perfect bridge hand from time to time and will scarcely trouble to write home about it when it happens." Dr. Lee Spetner, however, disproved this. It is possible to mathematically calulate the actual odds against that alien and his three friends. Spetner said: Quote: If the alien plays 100 bridge hands every day for his life of 100 million years, he would play about 3.65 x 10^12 hands. The chance of his seeing a perfect hand at least once in his life is then one chance in a quadrillion [one chance in a thousand billion]. That is less than Dawkins' chance of going to New York for two weeks and winning the lottery twice in a row. In reality, the odds against evolution are far worse. And you mean to tell me that random mutations created me? Get lost. _______________ Website |
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Halendor - Ex-Student 
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Flamori, evolution doesn't 'give' things, like handing them out, but evolution does exactly what it says, evolve. There are a gazillion ways bats could have developed this sonar system, wings, etcetera. It is all based on needs, if a new feature enables you to survive better, you will generate more offspring (because you're the one who's surviving) and they'll have your feature too, and so it is passed on and improved by each generation. If you don't need something anymore, it will just disappear (our 'tailbone' for example). Besides, there is absolutely no evidence saying that a 'creation' too place, and there is a lot to scientifically prove that there was (is) a process of evolution. Rationally, one should pick the scientific explaination, but emotionally one could believe in other theories, like the creation. Personally I don't think there's much discussion here, if you're religous you believe in the creation, if you're not, you believe in the evolution theory. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student
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Okay, let's get down to business. Evolution isn't a being or a form of anything that has a mind of it's own (which I think you all know but the previous posts didn't suggest that). All animals evolve to their surroundings. Bats for example, it is very likely that bats were once able to see. They didn't need the sonar at this point in time of course. But at one point or another bats were "condemed" to a place where it was pitch black, where their eyes were no longer of use to them and hearing was the only way of seeing they had. Over the years these bats practiced listening to noises and determining the source, therefor giving bats of the next generation an advantage (they say whatever your parents are good at you'll inherit). And so after years and years of developing their hearing, bats had no use for wasting the extra energy on trying to see in the dark. So finally the generation of blind bats came along, but they had exceptionally well hearing and were able to use that sense to listen to sounds bouncing off of walls and such, allowing them to see in the dark. Okay now thats a long story of bullcrap I just made up but it's just an example of how and why animals evolve. Our feet are wide and flat for walkin on flat surfaces, that's why we have toes to help us walk on our legs. The point is evolution doesn't choose what skills you get and don't get, only we do. If all humans all of a sudden went blind, that wasted energy would be put towards advancing our other senses, and eventually one generation would come out somewhat like bats, using sonar to see. Either that or we'd grow a third eye. You get what I'm saying? _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider This comment was edited by Gradius on Apr 05 2004 03:42pm. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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haha, indeed. Either Evolution can think logically or well... someone is waving a magic wand.. _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Flamori Athena - Student 
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the natural selection theory is faulty. take bats for example. bats are blind. but everyone knows how they catch their food, right? sound waves, or sonar. so basically, bats had to evolve: 1. a transmitter, to send out sound waves so they could see in the dark. 2. a receptor, to pick up the signals. 3. a brain that could make sense of these signals. 4. wings, despite the fact that they're mammals, designed specially to snatch prey out of the air. or the ground. 5. and did I mention this whole sonar system is very convenient because they're blind? there you have it. dont you think that's a little much to all have been cobbled together by chance? it was evolution, yeah, but how does it know to give bats all the right things? or is the hand of creation at work here? _______________ «±» 21st on the Midbie Council, Profile ID: 2027 «±» True wisdom is the knowledge that you know nothing. |
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Ulic |retired| - Student 
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I have no reason not to believe the evolution theory, constructed by deep and carefull, objective and empiric research. Science on this subject prevails over religion for me. But if you've got proof it went the other way around, please show me _______________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam |
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Dicemaster - Student
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I think that we are way to complex of a creation, to just have evolved from something so small. I mean look at how complex humans are, and besides that, there is just to much in this world that is hard for me to believe just happened by "chance" -Dice _______________ Dicemaster |
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