| Students Covering Classes... | |
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Squibit - Student  |
Students holding classes… Ok this may not be entirely correct as this “rule” is not actually on the rules page. But to the best of my knowledge it stands as follows… “A Student may not hold an official class” Reasons for this are fairly obvious. However I would query the following situation: A class (Uber-Elite-Every-Stance Sabering) Is held on the classes server at 8pm GMT by Anyone[JAT]. Anyone[JAT] fails to show up. And there are 8 Students waiting for him. No JAK or JATs are available to cover the class, or they do not think they know enough about Uber-Elite-Every-Stance Sabering. However there is a student who thinks they do know enough about it. The rule says they cannot hold a class. But somewhere (sorry I have forgotten where and can’t find it) it says “Students can teach other students, take unofficial padawans and hold unofficial classes”. Therefore that student could teach the other seven Uber-Elite-Every-Stance Sabering in an unofficial class… Basically the question comes down to this... What is the difference between an official and unofficial class? Is it that the class is held on the classes server ? If so , would it be fine for a student to cover the JAT if the class were on the wireplay server ? Is it that it is prearranged? And therefore if the student offered the unofficial class an hour later it would be fine? Or if he went to a different server? What’s the point? Is it allowed for a student to advertise an unofficial class on the forums? Is it simply that a ranked member is teaching? Therefore if the student “covered” (taught exactly the same topic at the same time on the same severs) the class it would instantly change from an official class to an unofficial class therefore the rule is not broken (loop hole?) [A little off track comment] Are JATs allowed to ASK a student to cover the class for them ? I talked about this subject with Katan[JAT] and he said that they were not, for this reason… Most of a time a trainer(or knight) would ask their padawan to cover if they couldn’t make a class. This would mean that padawan could teach classes but non-padawan students could not. This would then give the impression that JAP > JAS which is not true. [/A little off track comment] What would I suggest to “solve” this issue ? Scrap the rule, while there is a reason for it, it is too hard to monitor and police. Instead allow students to do it , but make it clear that it is considered a personal insult to the JAT who is absent and generally “not very nice”. Similar to ground kills in JK2 and Dropped saber kills in JK3. I know that this would certainly stop me from covering any class a trainer is unable to make, if I knew it was showing them disrespect. As for if the trainers can ask a student to cover a class (I’m not sure if they can or not). I think that they should be able to. I do not think padawans would be seen as having extra privileges. It just makes sense that if a student is someone’s padawan then they have much more experience in that particular persons style, and should be able to teach it well. Its not like only the padawan will be able to teach, the trainer can ask anyone they want to cover, just that (obviously) it will often be their padawan. Of course that is from the view of a padawan , other students may feel different  Sorry it got a little long, I dint intend to write that much but I sort of got into a flow  So what’s your thoughts on this guys? An opinion from the council would be greatly appreciated. May the force be with you all. --Squibit of Belouve _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once  |
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Katan - Student 
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Quote: Most of the time a trainer(knight) would ask their padawan to cover if they couldnt make a class. This would mean that padawan could teach classes but non-padawan students could not. This would give the impression that JAP > JAS which is not true. Going more indepth by what I meant when I told you this Squib... Lets say Someone[JAT] could not attend their class. The students are all standing around. The week before, Someone[JAT]'s padawan covered for him. The padawan gets up and says he will cover for his master. But maybe Someone[JAS] was here last class, and he thought he knew enough to teach this class aswell. He argues that he should get to teach this class, as he knows just as much. But the padawan can argue that his master gave HIM the right to cover this class. So Someone[JAS] can say "So being a JAP means a JAP gets more rights than a JAS?" Which of course is not true. but they could argue "Then why cant I teach this class?" Edit1: Not to say that all JAS would do this. But it has happened before with people looking for a loop-hole to teach "officially". This rule is pretty much just a way to make sure that we dont have arugements amongst students, fights about who should be aloud to teach, and making a big fuss about something trivial. Correct me if I am wrong _______________ This comment was edited by Katan on Jul 06 2004 03:41pm. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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thats cool. and I suppose that to happen. you are students after all, eager to learn, thats why people come to classes. just maybe hop from the classes server to home or wireplay, to avoid confusion.  _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Squibit - Student 
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Yeah bro, thats wht i think it should be , but from other responses here I got the impression that that was not supposed to happen _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
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Roan Belouve - Retired 
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K here u go Class on Yellow stance 8 p.m JAK+ doesn't turn up to teach class. 8:15 p.m 1 JAS says, "As the class doesn't appear to be happening do you want me to show you, lets say yellow stance stuff that i know" Some say yes, so you take them away and show (teach) them stuff. Other leave maybe It's a play on the rules but you are not covering the class but just showing some JAS what you know that just so happens to conveniently be on the same subject. Virty’s point is that he doesn’t want certain things taught in official classes. Student to student you can show each other what ever you like (illegal binds etc aside) SIMPLE ANSWER no JAK+ Teacher/Authorisation to teach = Unofficial training session between students! _______________ *Bro to Vaxxla,Padawan of FiZZandOdan-Wei Part of the mighty Belouve Dynasty-Knight of Nippledom.Twin of Selphestal!**Proud Master to Kaelis and Acura Friend to anyone who would call me the same . Pic by the amazing Majno (merry)
This comment was edited by Roan Belouve on Jul 06 2004 09:33am. |
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Tido - Student 
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Qui-Gon Jinn and his padawan Dido??? Hmmm....Bail I'm suspicious . |
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Mic Den Octela - Student 
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Totally off topic. but did u realise that virtues comment on this forum is his 666th (The devils number) heh. just thought i'd say... carry on _______________ -Padawan of Virtue -Brother of Menaxia, *|irael, Krynn Adept, Majno, Ris Win Juljul, DaMi3N, Beowulf, Dash Starlight, Carrock and Yuken Zalak Bartender at Munes bar. Sir Mic of Nippledom! Proudly beating Wang, since '07. (Crackdown) |
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Lancer007 - Student 
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Exactly. |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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yup. same applies for ANY JAK+ on ANY student. if the JAK+ believs the student is able to teach/cover a class, go go go. but, as u said, the JAK+ has to be on the serve rand supervise. this is the official policy. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Fizz of Belouve - Student 
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he can however cover it if ANY jak+ stands by on that server. and, WW, the classes server has nothing to do with it. it can be on ANY JA server, as long as its a reservation. _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Wolfwood - Student 
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Since its an official class, schedualed by a JAK+ on the Classes server, he can not cover it. _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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ok, I agree The names in this example are completely fictional Let's say Qui-Gon Jinn is scheduled to have a Full Force class, but due to recent events he can't make it, so he asks his Padawan, Dido, to fill in because: 1) Dido is very good at Full-Force 2) There's little more Dido can learn about Full-Force Would Dido be allowed to do it in this case? Or would it be frowned upon as well? (if you get my point) _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Wolfwood - Student
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An official class is a schedualed class made by a JAK+ on the Classes Server. And covering those, is only allowed by other JAK+. No discussion needed in my opinion _______________ ~ Honor is a fool's prize. Glory is of no use to the dead ~ |
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Lancer007 - Student
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Actully a student can teach a offical class if the JAT who teaches the class agrees to it and also the JAT who teaches it must supervise the student who is teaching the class. |
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Squibit - Student 
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So if asked by a JAT to cover a class for them we should say sorry, but students are not allowed to teach in any official clasS? I'm still a little confused by what "official class" is ? _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
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Fizz of Belouve - Student
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well, we might put it in the rules, maybe a paragraph that sais "Teaching official classes whatsoever is subject left to the JAK/JAT." but I dont see much sense in this. If that happens again that no JAK+ is available and the teacher is not showing up, just teach your fellow co-students what you know, one by one, and you're fine, and not wasting time _______________ One of the Belouve boys, founder of the mighty FiZZsters Midbie council #20 - Fizz - #1933 - Jan '03 - Aug '04 "Renfield, you idiot!" |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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cmad: Virtue only means stuff like exploits We don't want to be teaching those... We teach the game, not the way to cheat in the game _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Quote: they may be teaching something that we don't want people to teach. I may have misinterpreted this, but it really doesn't sound right. :\ _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
He's saying JAK+ have more experience. Quote: Outside of official Classes, Students can help other Students all they want. But leave the Official stuff to the JAK+. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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IMO the idea behind the thread is a word game; words and phrases forgotten to be put in the rules. That's just IMO though. _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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Generally, it's not recommended for Students to cover Classes. No matter how much a Student thinks they know about a certain aspect of the game, our JATs and JAKs are trained, and qualified teachers. At the Academy, we have certain things that we don't teach people. Or things that we ease people into. For example, you won't find a JAT teaching people how to use game exploits (there are alot more than you may think, from major ones to the most trivial). Students don't know the rules of the JAK+, therefore, they may be teaching something that we don't want people to teach. Or they may teach something that would contradict the Instructor. They may even teach, but not be specific on the theory behind the fighting. Therefore, no one will know why they are doing what they are doing, etc. As previously stated, JATs are trained and qualified to teach Classes. If Students could teach/cover Classes then there wouldn't really be much point in the JAK+ Ranks other than administration. And more than anything, we are a community of learning. Outside of official Classes, Students can help other Students all they want. But leave the Official stuff to the JAK+. - Virtue.  _______________ Academy Architect |
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Squibit - Student
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So daid you mean that you think it should be ok to cover aslong as the student going to cover says "Hey guys Im not a offical trainer or anything like that and every thing i tell you may be complete <insert swaer word here>. But as long as you're all ok with that I can show you a bit about what could have been in this class..." Edit: LOL love it how even the JATS themselves dont know if students are allowed to cover Edit2: If/When we get a JAC official ruling on this, it would be cool if u could add it to the rules page please _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
This comment was edited by Squibit on Jun 27 2004 02:16pm. |
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Daidalus[JAP] Fisto - Student ![Daidalus[JAP] Fisto](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=49&f_height=70&f_image=3482.jpg&f_odd=1){kind=small}
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hmm, here is my point of view... in the past i got some experience with that topic... so let me explain what i think about it: I think its good that only JAK+ can hold official classes. If anyone could we would have a huge chaos in the classes-list. Not anyone is able to hold classes, even if he has the skill. That only JAK+ can do classes makes sure that only ppl teach classes who can really do so. On the other hand, students should be allowed (and encouraged) to help each other. There is no reason why to forbid that. That includes that thay can meet on a server on some time to share knowledge with each other. You cant nor would it be nice to forbid that. So whats up now with ppl who fill in for a class? For sure its not alowed for JAS/JAP to fill in officially. That would only provocate arguing between students who are allowed to do so and who are not allowed. How to solve now the problem with the unofficial classes? i dont think there is a problem now. If all students agree that there is an other student who teaches them something, why should it be wrong? Maybe its the same time and place with the same topic like the official class, that makes it look like its an official replacement, but its not. I dont see any problem as long as everybody is fine with the way it goes. please dont take everything too serious. its just a game and we want to have some fun. The rules gave us some structure and its important to follow them. But you shouldnt be scared of ppl who like to help each other. its just a game, dont forget that. greetings, daid _______________ Founder of the Fisto Family -|- Member of the mighty FiZZsters!! -|- Owner of the second Bail prize for "BAIL RULES!!" -|- I'll never forget you Jaina! -|- Owner of the one and only autograph of Smily -|- SMILY RULES -|- Owner of the 1000th Comment of the great Kueller -|- Big brother to NarCosT Fisto, and ShadowFax . -|- Proud Padawan of Kueller -|-Sir Daidalus Fisto. Official Historian of Nippledom and server to Menaxia, Queen of Nippledom Quote: fiZZe: "gdamubububugmgmgububugrrrrrdsa?"
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Dunno. * DK|Jacen is now known as JACNEEDED |
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xAnAtOs - Student |
Really? Covering classes by students is ok? I thought otherwise... _______________ Brother to Luke Skywalker and (SKX) Dark Blade
Lag Brother to Acey Spadey 
Jools is my best friend.
<Henkes> nebody feeling like abusing me with a lightsaber?|+Smilykrazy grabs Gradius, beats the living CRAP out of him, then throws him into a huge vat of ACID |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
As I've understood it, it's just about not doing something like e.g. posting on the forums that you'll hold a class at X GMT on Y the Zth. If you cover a class it's ok, or if you just decide to have a class spontaneously (as long as you don't annoy the rest of the people on the server). |
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