| Bible Study | |
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Koyi Donita - Student  |
Yep. Here it is. My first offical Forum and of course it's about my favorite topic, The Bible. Basically, I would like this to be an open forum based on the Bible and the truths held with in. If anyone has any Biblical truths that they would like to share with everyone, I ask for you to please put it up on the table as we will all search for truth in God's Word. If anyone has any questions, maybe collectively we may be able to help them through the Bible God willing. I only ask that if you have no faith or have nothing constructive to post, please respect my wishes and just ignore this forum. All questions from non-believers are welcome as long as you seriously seek God's truth. May God bless us all through his wonderful Word. Quote: For those of you who like, this site has every translation. Plus search, studies, GREAT RESOURCE The Bible Gateway -DM- Thank you Darth Mobility.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.  This post was edited by Koyi Donita on Apr 30 2005 05:38pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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Also, I just wanted to add that Moses where he did make intersession for the people of Israel at times saving them from God's wrath making him a picture of Christ making intersession for the true believers with God, he (being Moses) also was more of a picture of the law of God. In 2 Corinthians 3:13-14 we read: 13) And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. This scripture points directly at this fact. It uses the illustration of Moses wearing the veil and goes right into the law of God and the old testament. It was the law which was abolished by Jesus Christ when He was resurrected from the dead. Being dead frees one from the law. In Romans 7:1-4 we read: 1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2) For the woman which hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Other pictures of the old testament pointing to Moses being the law include him striking the rock and not being allowed by God to enter into the land of Canaan (which was the promise land a picture of the new heavens and the new earth promised to the true believers). Moses striking the rock to make the life giving water flow is a picture of the law of God striking Jesus (who is the rock of our salvation). In Psalm 95:1 we read: 1)O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Also in John 4:14 we read: 14) But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. The law had to strike Jesus dead that He may be raised up so that He would have victory over sin and death. Jesus is then free to give the gift of salvation through the life giving waters of the gospel and through the Holy Spirit which gives understanding to His Word. In John 3:5 we read: 5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Also Moses not being able to lead the people of Israel into the promised land underscores him as being a picture of the law because by the law can no man enter into the promised land. Sin is the breaking of the law so the law can bring us to the knowledge of our sin and humble us before God. In the flesh we can't please God by doing the works of the law for we can never keep the law perfectly. It can be said that the law brings us to death as Moses lead them to the river. Deep waters in the Bible can be pictures of hell and the people of Israel had to pass through the deep by another man into the promised land. I hope some of this makes sense to you all. I'll post more scriptures continuing the study on the old testament when I have a chance. May God add His blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Nov 22 2005 01:13pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I would like to share more scriptures as soon as I find the time like the ones that point out that God is the God of all nations and commands to declare God's mighty works to the heathen. I'll be back with those shortly if time allows. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Virtue - Jedi Council 
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Tell me more, Sir Koyi. - Virtue.  _______________ Academy Architect |
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AvaloN - Student 
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U guys sure put a lot of time in this. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: Take a look at how the other 9 commandments were applied with the Jews. It was a set of commandments for the Jews. Obviously, though, these still apply in principle (even though they weren't originally 'designed' for Gentiles) - and further things have been added in the New Testament. Of course not, Jesus changed all that with the NEW Covenant, but not only did he change that - he changed other things. For example, there are now only two commandments (according to Jesus) - which encompass all of the original ten for the Jews and every other good thing. It is now - 1) Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, soul and strength and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Let's take a look at this. In Matthew 22:34-40 we read: 34) But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38) This is the first and great commandment. 39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. I can see how you say there are only the two now, but I think Jesus is saying more to the like that these two sum up or are the fulness of all the other commandments, the laws, and the teachings of the prophets. It's not that they are put to rest or are changed, but are very much alive and are completely meant for the gentiles as the jews. After all, what makes a gentile a gentile? It is a people with the absence of or a unwillingness to obey the law also spoken of as heathen in the Old Testament. In Deuteronomy 4:20 we read: 20) But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day. Now the iron furnace/egypt are a spiritual picture of hell or being in bondage to sin (one and the same) and the people of inheritance is a picture of God's true believers. Don't you believe that the Jews profit no more then any other as God tells us in His Word. God isn't a respecter of persons. He was using these people to draw a powerful picture for His true believers. His people rest safe and secure in His almighty arms, yet while in the wilderness and at the mountain, these people kept tempting both Moses (who can be seen as a picture of Christ) and the Lord and many of them fell because their hearts remained in Egypt. That's a picture of us today who would believe that we love God with are all but are still in bondage to our sins and keep returning to them. These Israelites weren't the people of inheritance as we will see in other scriptures, but were a dramatic picture of the real people of inheritance. That isn't to say none of them were true believers, but most of them weren't. Quote: Well, that is exactly what is evident by reading the Bible and through other historical references and writings that have been discovered in the past centuries. In Romans 3:4 we read: 4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. God wrote and is the Word of God. I'll trust this and only this in my studying. Other historical references and writings that have been discovered in the past centuries were undoubtedly written by men and shouldn't be trusted. In 2 Timothy 3:16 we read: 16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Also we read in 2 Peter 1:21: 21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. God's very own words which have infinately more knowledge and understanding then what mankind writes should be our absolute source of truth. Romans Chapters two and nine teach alot of some great facts but I will quote alittle. In Romans 2:25-29 we read: 25) For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26) Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27) And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. In Romans 9:3-8 we read: 3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4) who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5) whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8) That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. In Galatians 4:21-26 we read: 21) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24) Which things are [an allegory]{symbolic}: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. 25) For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. The mother of us all refers to true believers I believe. The Jews, Israelites, and even Jerusalem itself were only pictures/shadows pointing towards something so much greater then it was namely the time when Jesus would come to be the burnt offering for His elect. His elect being the Holy City Jerusalem which will be united with Him on the last day. Quote: However, they are applied in different ways under a different covenant. If we're to take all of the Old Testament as true, then maybe we should still be sacrificing animals? In Psalms 50:7-14 we read: 7)Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God. 8) I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me. 9) I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds: 10) For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. 11) I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine. 12) If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fullness thereof. 13) Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? 14) Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the Most High: In Psalms 51:15-17 we read: 15) O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise. 16) For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17) The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. In Psalm 69:29-33 we read: 29) But I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high. 30) I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving. 31) This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs. 32) The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God. 33) For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners. In Psalms 107:21-22 we read: 21) Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! 22) And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing. In Hosea 14:2 we read: 2) Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. In Acts 28:23-28 we read: 23) And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24) And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. 25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, 26) saying, go unto this people, and say, hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27) for the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. In 2 Corinthians 3:12-16 we read: 12) Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13) And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. 15) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. 16) Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. God here is instructing that these so called sacrifices weren't really that pleasing to Him and even said that He didn't desire them. They were shadows or pictures of Christ who would be the lamb of God offered as a sacrafice for His elect. They also served as reminders to the people that they had sins that needed a sacrifice and the sacrifices in and of themselves never payed for their sins because they had to keep making those sacrifices. God said I the LORD doth sanctify you and nobody listened. They were told if they did something then their sins would be payed for and they did that but never listened to some of the other scriptures that point at other lessons and teachings. The old and new testaments are very cohesive to me when I look at them because they both speak of Christ. True, the old testament is alot harder to see spiritual truth in because God needs to reveal them to us much like the lesson of Abraham and his two children. All of this history is filled with parables that are very important even up in to this day and age. This is what I see and believe in. How do you feel towards these ideas? Again, me and my views are not the final athority but we all must humbly come before the Bible and have God teach us what He would have us learn. May God add His blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Oct 13 2005 07:16pm. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote: I was just wondering you view of the other 9 of the 10 commandments then if you would like to share that with us. Were these too only for the Jews as the murder commandment was? Take a look at how the other 9 commandments were applied with the Jews. It was a set of commandments for the Jews. Obviously, though, these still apply in principle (even though they weren't originally 'designed' for Gentiles) - and further things have been added in the New Testament. Quote: I find this idea of the (Old and New) being for different "targeted audiences" a little hard to comprehend. Well, that is exactly what is evident by reading the Bible and through other historical references and writings that have been discovered in the past centuries. Quote: The New testament is full of referances too the Old testament throughtout a great many of their books. If that subject matter was truely for a different "targeted audience" as your suggesting, then I feel that in my personal opinion that God would be telling the New Testament believers look what I did here, or look at how this happened. No, not really. God still holds the same principles true as He did before. However, they are applied in different ways under a different covenant. If we're to take all of the Old Testament as true, then maybe we should still be sacrificing animals? Of course not, Jesus changed all that with the NEW Covenant, but not only did he change that - he changed other things. For example, there are now only two commandments (according to Jesus) - which encompass all of the original ten for the Jews and every other good thing. It is now - 1) Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, soul and strength and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Quote: Remember that God is the same yesterday, and today, and forever and when He mentions something from the old, it's as if He's underscoring something important. Yup, of course He's the same, but He DOES change the way He interacts with and talks to people. He even has changes of 'rules' (for want of a better word). For example, he changed from sleeping with close relatives being OK to being wrong. God didn't change, but there come points when He needs to effect changes. And when rules are no longer just for one nation, but for an entire world - changes are needed. As another example, just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you need to be circumcised. But if you were a Jew in the Old Testament, you had to be. Another of the changes that doesn't change GOD Himself, but changes what He wants to see happen. (Sorry if that paragraph made no sense, I'm trying to think of a better way to put it - its quite confusing that way). Quote: These are just my just my thoughts and I will be looking up some scriptures that might shine more light onto this lesson. I've just be so extremely busy lately that I can't usually.  Well, that's what I've been doing - and what I keep feeling the Holy Spirit telling me. Every time I read the scriptures in context, I see differences between covenants, but not a single change in God Himself _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: If you'll notice in the Old Testament, the Jews could kill any non-Jew they liked, but as soon as they killed a Jew, they were either stoned or struck down by God himself. That in itself shows the "limitations" of the commandment. However, in the New Testament, Jesus made that universal and even took it so far as saying you can't even think about killing without it being a sin. I was just wondering you view of the other 9 of the 10 commandments then if you would like to share that with us. Were these too only for the Jews as the murder commandment was? Quote: I've read and read and re-read the Bible in an attempt to come to the same conclusion as everyone else comes to, but every time I end up seeing the same thing... That whilst the two covenants (Old and New) make up one cohesive Bible, they do not overlap in any way and had different "target audiences" (for want of a better term). I find this idea of the (Old and New) being for different "targeted audiences" a little hard to comprehend. The New testament is full of referances too the Old testament throughtout a great many of their books. If that subject matter was truely for a different "targeted audience" as your suggesting, then I feel that in my personal opinion that God would be telling the New Testament believers look what I did here, or look at how this happened. Remember that God is the same yesterday, and today, and forever and when He mentions something from the old, it's as if He's underscoring something important. These are just my just my thoughts and I will be looking up some scriptures that might shine more light onto this lesson. I've just be so extremely busy lately that I can't usually. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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JamesF1 - Student
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I'd heard that before Smily - very good Now to reply to a few things that I didn't notice were posted previously: Quote: Got a quote from the OT backing that up? The Old Testament was only ever a covenant with the Jews. It was *never* opened to anyone else. That's plain to see in the Old Testament. Israel was the only nation with "access" to God. However, in the New Testament, many things changed. Quote: I'd never heard of limitations put on "Thou shall not kill" in the Torah or Talmud. Most of the early Jewish wars were defensive wars, repelling evil invaders and whatnot (thats what I was taught in sunday school anyways). If you'll notice in the Old Testament, the Jews could kill any non-Jew they liked, but as soon as they killed a Jew, they were either stoned or struck down by God himself. That in itself shows the "limitations" of the commandment. However, in the New Testament, Jesus made that universal and even took it so far as saying you can't even think about killing without it being a sin. Quote: I'll look into the Thou shalt not kill commandment because I actually studied that along time ago but I can't find any of my notes anywhere. :/ There are alot of other scriptures God gave us following that commandment that brought more light and truth to it and I don't believe it was as cut and dry as they couldn't kill Jews but everyone else was okay. If memory serves me correctly, the Jews got slaughtered every time they tried to kill without God's expressed command to kill/raise/plunder the lands in which they were to inhabit. Not quite. God would strike them down if they were to go against specific commands that he had given (such as, for example - in a number of circumstances - that they were not to take any plunder). I've read and read and re-read the Bible in an attempt to come to the same conclusion as everyone else comes to, but every time I end up seeing the same thing... That whilst the two covenants (Old and New) make up one cohesive Bible, they do not overlap in any way and had different "target audiences" (for want of a better term). _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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That was a nice story _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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I know this thread has caused some drama in the past. But when I read this I had to post this. It warmed my heart. In the city of Chicago, one cold, dark night, a blizzard was setting in. A little boy was selling newspapers on the corner, the people were in and out of the cold. The little boy was so cold that he wasn't trying to sell many papers. He walked up to a policeman and said, "Mister, you wouldn't happen to know where a poor boy could find a warm place to sleep tonight would you? You see, I sleep in a box up around the corner there and down the alley and it's awful cold in there for tonight. Sure would be nice to have a warm place to stay," The policeman looked down at the little boy and said, "you go down the street to that big white house and you knock on the door. When they come out the door you just say John 3:16, and they will let you in." So he did. He walked up the steps and knocked on the door, and a lady answered. He looked up and said, "John 3:16." The lady said, "Come on in, Son." She took him in and she sat him down in a split bottom rocker in front of a great big old fireplace, and she went off. The boy sat there for a while and thought to himself: John 3:16....I don't understand it, but it sure makes a cold boy warm. Later she came back and asked him "Are you hungry?" He said, "Well, just a little. I haven't eaten in a couple of days, and I guess I could stand a little bit of food," The lady took him in the kitchen and sat him down to a table full of wonderful food. He ate and ate until he couldn't eat any more. Then he thought to himself: John 3:16... Boy, I sure don't understand it but it sure makes a hungry boy full. She took him upstairs to a bathroom to a huge bathtub filled with warm water, and he sat there and soaked for a while. As he soaked, he thought to himself: John 3:16... I sure don't understand it, but it sure makes a dirty boy clean. You know, I've not had a bath, a real bath, in my whole life. The only bath I ever had was when I stood in front of that big old fire hydrant as they flushed it out. The lady came in and got him. She took him to a room, tucked him into a big old feather bed, pulled the covers up around his neck, kissed him goodnight and turned out the lights. As he lay in the darkness and looked out the window at the snow coming down on that cold night, he thought to himself: John 3:16... I don't understand it but it sure makes a tired boy rested. The next morning the lady came back up and took him down again to that same big table full of food. After he ate, she took him back to that same big old split bottom rocker in front of the fireplace and picked up a big old Bible. She sat down in front of him and looked into his young face. "Do you understand John 3:16?" she asked gently. He replied, "No, Ma'am, I don't. The first time I ever heard it was last night when the policeman told me to use it," She opened the Bible to John 3:16 and began to explain to him about Jesus. Right there, in front of that big old fireplace, he gave his heart and life to Jesus. He sat there and thought: John 3:16. .. .. I don't understand it, but it sure makes a lost boy feel safe. You know, I have to confess I don't understand it either, how God was willing to send His Son to die for me, and how Jesus would agree to do such a thing. I don't understand the agony of the Father and every angel in heaven as they watched Jesus suffer and die. I don't understand the intense love for ME that kept Jesus on the cross till the end. I don't understand it, but it sure does make life worth living. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. If you aren't ashamed to do this, please follow the directions. Jesus said, "If you are ashamed of me, I will be ashamed of you before my Father." Pass this on only if you mean it. I do Love God. He is my source of existence. He keeps me functioning each and every day. Phil 4:13 If you love God and are not ashamed of all the marvelous things he has done for you, send this on. Take 60 seconds & give this a shot! Let's just see if Satan stops this one. All you do is -- 1) Simply say a small prayer for the person who sent you this, (Father, God bless this person in whatever it is that You know he or she may be needing this day!). 2) Then send it on to five other people. Within hours five people have prayed for you, and you caused a multitude of people to pray to God for other people. Then sit back and watch the power of God work in your life for doing the thing that you know He loves. Remember to smile often at those that you love! Have a Super day. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: Take another look. Read the Old Testament carefully - it was a covenant God made with the Jews. Gentiles were never part of that covenant - even though certain aspects are - as you rightly say - good for teaching and edifying. I believe the Old Testament is the unchanging word of God, but it also has to be seen for what it is - a covenant with Israel. I'm sorry to say this, but I just don't see that at all compared to what I read in the New Testament. Let me share some scriptures that come to mind when I think of the total cohesiveness of the whole Bible. In Romans 2:25-29 we read: 25) For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26) Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27) And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. In Romans 4:1-3, 13-16 we read: 1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, In Romans 9:1-6 we read: 1) I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4) Who are Israelites; to who pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Now these scriptures to me seem to be pulling from the old testament and bringing the important facts into light namely that God had alot going on with in His written law that they just didn't see because they were reading and following it to the letter. Probably much of which I am doing the same thing. Anyhow, God's truths and lessons were there, just more or less in parable form and not in plain language where someone can read a couple of verses and say this is exactly what God is saying. Many of these New Testament scriptures pull us directly back into the Old Testament and bring to light alot of what God was really trying to say and do but those who had eyes didn't see and those who had ears didn't hear. I could be wrong, but this is how I feel toward these as well as other scriptures relating to the Old Testament. I'll look into the Thou shalt not kill commandment because I actually studied that along time ago but I can't find any of my notes anywhere. :/ There are alot of other scriptures God gave us following that commandment that brought more light and truth to it and I don't believe it was as cut and dry as they couldn't kill Jews but everyone else was okay. If memory serves me correctly, the Jews got slaughtered every time they tried to kill without God's expressed command to kill/raise/plunder the lands in which they were to inhabit. To DJ, as far as my Bible goes, God commanded His people Israel to enter into the promise land and to kill off the inhabitance there within. God in most cases wanted all men, women, and childred utterly destroyed along with cattle, homes, crops, good. Everything was to be destroyed and those who broke this met their end for disobeying God's command. I'll look for some nice scriptures that highlight these battles, but it is true that alot of the wars were fought defensively against kings and nation of those lands trying to stop their progress. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DJ Sith - Jedi Council 
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Quote: As an example, under the old covenant, Jews were allowed to kill anyone APART FROM JEWS. The "Thou shalt not kill" applied to killing another person from the nation of Israel, but it didn't apply to non-Jews, they could kill them, as is clearly seen in the number of battles Israel had with God's 'backing' Got a quote from the OT backing that up? I'd never heard of limitations put on "Thou shall not kill" in the Torah or Talmud. Most of the early Jewish wars were defensive wars, repelling evil invaders and whatnot (thats what I was taught in sunday school anyways). _______________ My car is made of Nerf. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Take another look. Read the Old Testament carefully - it was a covenant God made with the Jews. Gentiles were never part of that covenant - even though certain aspects are - as you rightly say - good for teaching and edifying. I believe the Old Testament is the unchanging word of God, but it also has to be seen for what it is - a covenant with Israel. Jesus preached a covenant for all man-kind, a much different covenant, based on the ultimate sacrifice - Himself. Now things are different. As an example, under the old covenant, Jews were allowed to kill anyone APART FROM JEWS. The "Thou shalt not kill" applied to killing another person from the nation of Israel, but it didn't apply to non-Jews, they could kill them, as is clearly seen in the number of battles Israel had with God's 'backing' (God can't go against his word, so the "Thou shalt not kill", obviously only applied to killing Jews - as if a Jew killed a Jew, they were stoned). Now, however, we have a new covenant - Jesus said even *thinking* about killing someone is as bad as murder, and its not for the Jews only, its for everyone. So, I do believe that the Old Testament and the New Testament are different, but the Old Testament still does have a certain degree of relevance for teaching and edifying today, even if not to the same degree as those principles held for the Jews. Sorry if this makes little sense, I'm very tired _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: No real lesson, only grace. The reason Jesus didn't initially do anything, was because she was not a Jew - and, under the old covenant (which was still in place at that time, legally), salvation was of the Jews. I do understand the grace factor, but I can say I really agree with the whole old covenant theory. Alot of people believe that they are two seperate covenants, two different teachings, two different books for two different people. I don't believe in this because of a few scriptures that I will try to locate the exact locations of in the near future. 1) All scripture is profitable for the teaching, edification, etc., 2) Holy men of old spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them. 3) From before the foundation of the world God chose His elect whom He would save. Even in the old testament we have verses saying bring my gospel to the whole world. The old people who would be under the old covenant would have then been commanded to bring the gospel to the world, but God didn't open their eyes so they could see this truth that His Word wasn't for them alone. This commandment is true and rings forth into our worship today and that makes me a strong believer in the fact that the old testament and the first covenant were all shadows or parables if you will of what God has planned for His true believers at any point in our history. Just my belief and a few reasons why. God illustated in a few spots in the old testament that things were signs or shadows pointing to something else. They have no real substance in themselves like the sabbath day which pointed to the fact the it is God the Lord who sanctifies us and makes us holy. The whole 7th day sabbath pointed to His work as in the work He does to save us. This woman would (in my eyes) be under the commandment of having the gospel but no messenger who gave her God's Word until the Lord Jesus' very own words graced her. In that moment she probably recieved the blessing of salvation for I believe there is scriptures God gives us telling us that He has deaf ears toward the unsaved or something to that effect. Possibly in the psalms? He probably ignored her at first to show us this work that He did in her right there in that instant. The language of calling her a dog is uncommon to me as well which really confuses me, but leaves open another great study for another time. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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JamesF1 - Student
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Quote: I'm finding it difficult to see what God is trying to teach out of this lesson No real lesson, only grace. The reason Jesus didn't initially do anything, was because she was not a Jew - and, under the old covenant (which was still in place at that time, legally), salvation was of the Jews. However, Jesus came to change that, and when he saw within her that she had grasped one of the fundamental truths of the kingdom, he reached out to her. That truth being that salvation is no longer only of the Jews, but of the Gentiles as well. _______________ Website This comment was edited by JamesF1 on Aug 14 2005 06:19pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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That is a really moving scripture. I really liked that one alot. One scripture that I read recently was the one were the woman approached Jesus asking Him to heal her daughter. He ignored her and His disciples asked if they should send her away because of the scene she was making. She asked again and Jesus responded that it wouldn't be proper to give the childrens food to the dogs. She responded by saying that His statement was true, but the dogs do feed from the crumbs that fall from the table. With that, her faith made her daughter well. I find this story very interesting because Jesus is Lord God and His disciples are the children of God. He would be refering to this woman and her child as dogs then being unfit to feed from what belongs to the saved. We can also find in the Bible that it is Christ's faithfulness that saves us from our sin, His free gift of grace. I'm finding it difficult to see what God is trying to teach out of this lesson, but it is a fasinating scripture too because it's almost along the same lines of the first. Grace is awarded to the undiserving and we should never loose sight of this. Thank you for sharing that scripture with us. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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JamesF1 - Student
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Something struck me the other day, reading the story of the alduteress woman (found in John 8). Jesus said "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone..." and then, as we know, all of the Pharisees and those waiting to stone her, left. Now, this is what struck me, the only one without sin there was Jesus, he would have been right and perfectly justified to stone her, right there, and then. Especially considering that Israel was still under the old covanent. BUT, Jesus showed grace to her, grace that defied the Pharisees AND the culture of the day - he said to her "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?". She said, "No one, Lord." Then he said, "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more." That just struck me as powerful, and a perfect example of grace. _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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In Luke 20:27-38 we read: 27) Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him, 28) Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 29) There were therefore seven brethen: and the first took a wife, and died without children. 30) And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. 31) And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. 32) Last of all the woman died also. 33) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. 34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35) But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36) Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels: and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. 37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB. 38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Now Mobility quoted some rather nice and important scripture which tell us that God only shows us a blurred image of what is to come in His Word and nor does He make us ignorant to it either. In Revelation 21:1-5 we read: 1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Now in verse two we read that new Jerusalem, which can be shown to be the true believers in God His children the elect of God, will be prepared as a bride for her husband, which can be shown to be the Lord Jesus. It is also taught in the Bible that the laws on marriage and the like are only for the living for when one dies, the other may remarry. Now maybe when God makes the former things pass away and make all new, maybe relationships will remain in a new way. It just seems to me especially with the language God has selected for us that when we die and either go to be with Him or are cast into hell, marriage will be no more. It's not clear for me to understand how one can be married and marry Christ when the new heavens and the new earth are made, but maybe I lack the understanding. Maybe what I read is too blurry for me to see a clear image of what is to come. This is all just food for thought and scriptures supporting what I believe. I knew of others that I would also like to share, but am having a difficult time remembering where I read them. Please God bless the reading of His Word. May we all gain a clearer understanding of God's Word through Him opening our eyes and hearts bringing us closer to Him. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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Heaven! A comforting word is this! But who among us mortal creatures can envision its blessed reality? Neither the artist’s brush, the sculptor’s chisel, nor the theologian’s exegesis can depict the things which God hath prepared for them who love Him. The wonder, the glory, and the effulgence of the home of the redeemed will be seen only through the eyes of our glorified bodies when we awake in Christ’s likeness. “Now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known” (1 Corinthians 13:12). Still we are not left alone to grope in dark ignorance. A foretaste of glory divine has been preserved for us upon the pages of God’s eternal and unerring Word. From bible.org -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Aug 04 2005 05:11pm. |
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Lirael - Jedi Council 
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Sadducee _______________ I can write my name with my sparkler. My sparkler > your lightsabre |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Wow. This thread fell of the map for awhile. Back to the topic of death, where the departed go, and the life after death, I just wanted to ask a question. Now it was in some people's opinions that life after death will not change but shall become infinately more glorious. That family will remain family, friends will remain friends and the like. I remember Jesus telling a (Pharasee?) that when people die, they are no longer married or given in marrage but become like the angels or something to that effect. Another passage can tell us that angels are ministering spirits. I'll try to look these up and post them but I was hoping I could get some feed back if your familiar with these verses and what they mean to you as far as life after death is concerned. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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I just wanted to post that I have been currently reading through the Psalms and I am starting to feel a bit better. It's been awhile since I've done some serious reading. I want to read Chronicles although those names keep stopping me. I'm pretty sure I read all of the following books up to Psalms and I've even sung alot of them as well as flipping through the Bible at time and read a handful here and there as well. I was just wondering if anybody has actively been reading the Bible, what they've been reading, and what their thoughts on what they were reading was? One Psalm is screaming to me in particular and I will be discussing it shortly. Maybe after a small study and the completion of the rest of the Psalms before I get thrown off track. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Not only that book, but what many say and believe about the Bible as well. Maybe even what I believe and try to teach! I do turn to the scriptures that I form my beliefs from however and discuss and search them out. Many just ignore or disreguard certain scriptures because it doesn't line up with their beliefs. I'm trying to find the divine thread or sewing if you will that binds all of the scriptures together and shows ultimate truth. I hope nobody here ever takes my words as truth. I only ask that you don't trust me, but the Bible and check out what I post against it's teachings. If you find me in the wrong, we can discuss and hopefully come to truth on subjects. Yeah, but besides books and novels and shows and movies, just look inside our very own churches and congregations. You can find alot of things that are contrary to the Word of God yet those things are okay to those who do them so those things are okay. God gives us graphic pictures of what He did to His people when they strayed from His ways and people are like La Dee Da, God loves everyone and everything. The Bible also tells us the God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Just because there's a new covenant doesn't mean that God won't act in like manner toward those who polute His Word with their ideas and thoughts and practices. God is a merciful God but He has also shown us that His patience is long, but comes to an end sooner or later. I myself might see this movie if it looks interesting at all just to know the subject to be able to discuss it, but I'm not worried about what it might do to the people or the "christian image". God saves through His Word the Bible with Him doing all the work. If those who are going to be snared by that book don't ever become believers, that's in God's best interest because He holds the power to save in His hands. Likewise, if people begin persecuting me and others because of what ever this book/movie suggests so be it. God warns the believers that He was persecuted in the person of Jesus and His followers would face the same. I personally am ready for anything that the world might throw at me because I can imagine some pretty aweful things that this world can come to and do any day now. With the world ticking towards it's end, we should try to make sure as many people as possible hears the gospel in hopes that God will save them. Not pushing or forcing it on to anyone, but just making it availible through discussions, talks, debates, etc. I personally like bumper stickers, shirts, and other products that have actual scripture posted on them because it doesn't preach to anyone but it does put them in the area where their curiosity might take over or God can start to work in them. As far as the book is concerned, I would like to hear a few discuss it just so I know how it relates to the scriptures if at all and gain a better understanding of the story the book holds. No need to worry about what it contains and how it might effect others though. It's all in God's mighty hands and that is well with me. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Llomar Kroyd - Student 
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Let me clarify I think what this book is saying is blasphemy. But it is also dangerous, a lot of people will read it and take it as true, people constantly look for a way to humanise God and Jesus, and this book will get many thinking they have some sort of divine new truth that once again makes us as Christians look stupid and unknowledgeable. The Bible does warn us in Revelations about false prophecies and prophets, I believe this is what we are seeing now. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: I am not trying to take away from that at all, but I find more and more that people are forgetting the wonderful reasons that we follow the word and miss the truths held within that we encounter in our everyday lives I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you are saying here. Would you be able to illustrate some examples by any chance for me please? _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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