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Koyi Donita - Student  |
Yep. Here it is. My first offical Forum and of course it's about my favorite topic, The Bible. Basically, I would like this to be an open forum based on the Bible and the truths held with in. If anyone has any Biblical truths that they would like to share with everyone, I ask for you to please put it up on the table as we will all search for truth in God's Word. If anyone has any questions, maybe collectively we may be able to help them through the Bible God willing. I only ask that if you have no faith or have nothing constructive to post, please respect my wishes and just ignore this forum. All questions from non-believers are welcome as long as you seriously seek God's truth. May God bless us all through his wonderful Word. Quote: For those of you who like, this site has every translation. Plus search, studies, GREAT RESOURCE The Bible Gateway -DM- Thank you Darth Mobility.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.  This post was edited by Koyi Donita on Apr 30 2005 05:38pm. |
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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In Romans 3:4 we read: 4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, THAT THOU MIGHTEST BE JUSTIFIED IN THY SAYINGS, AND MIGHTEST OVERCOME WHEN THOU ART JUDGED. In Isaiah 55:8 we read: 8) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. I refuse to fall into some classification of people with their ideas and beliefs. I'm just looking to the scriptures to teach me. The more that is brought to the table for us to discuss, the better because we all may look to different areas of the Bible and thus may gain more scriptual knowledge about said subjects. If you want to discuss these materials, we can over in the other forum. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student 
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I looked into those two scriptures DM and studied them a bit and this is what I found. First, let us pick up a few verses before the chapter and then the context of Deut. 30:19. In Deuteronony 29:25-29 we read: 25) Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: 26) For they went and served other gods, and worshiped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: 27) And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: 28) And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day. 29) The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. In Deuteronomy chapter 30 we read: 1) AND it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee. 2) And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3) That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4) If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5) And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6) And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 7) And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. 8) And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. 9) And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: 10) If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11) For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12) It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13) Neither is it beyond the sea that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15) See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16) In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17) But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18) I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20) That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. I believe that verse 6 is the key that unlocks this scripture. God will circumcise our hearts to love Him with all of our hearts and all of our souls that we may live. Verse 2 shares the same language with verse 6 (hearts and souls). Verses 7 & 8 shows us that the curse of our sin will still be placed on the unsaved and that we shall obey and do all His commandments. In verse 9, God makes our works plenteous or abound. Verse 10 just reminds us of verse 6 for it has the same language (hearts and souls). Verse 11 tells us that this scripture is not a hidden message for God tells us plainly in verse 6 that He will make us love Him. Verses 12-14 is simular language to what is written in the book of Romans in the tenth chapter verses 6-8. In Romans 10:1-8 we read: 1) BRETHREN, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, THAT THE MAN WHICH DOETH THOSE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY THEM. 6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, SAY NOT IN THINE HEART, WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?(that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) 7) Or, WHO SHALL DESCEND INTO THE DEEP? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8) But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH THEE, EVEN IN THY MOUTH, AND IN THY HEART: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Now in Rom. 10:4 & 5 we can see that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes and that law is, "THAT THE MAN WHICH DOES THOSE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY THEM." Things like if we call upon the Lord, ask for forgiveness, believe in Him, confess His name, being baptized in His name, etc.. It's the same stumbling stone that we must not fall on into our destruction. Going back to Deuteronomy, verses 15 & 19 speak about life and death, good and evil, blessing and cursing. Yes, choice too but the choice is laid out for us now. We can believe our actions have something to do with our salvation which can be shown to be equivalent to worshiping idols/false gods or even Satan, or we can wait on the Lord for it is He that sanctifies us and circumcises our hearts so we can love Him. In verse 16 we are commanded to love the Lord and keep His commandments. We fail to do this in everyday living whether it be road rage, a beautiful woman walking by, the boss or co-workers making work a stressful environment, etc. and upon noticing this, we should fall down on our knees and beg God for mercy for God being trustworthy and true in verse 6 tells us in what circumstance we will love Him. Verses 17 & 18 spell out our judgement and our fate when we notice our sin in our daily living. I'm still working on the Joshua verse and this is already getting too long. Just remember what we have posted in Romans in the ninth chapter about how God creates us into either vessels of wrath or mercy. Again in John 1:10-13 we read: 10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. We can not become a Son/Daughter of God by our will meaning we can not believe on His name, we can not call on His name, and we can not be saved by our faith. All of these things are by our will. Now if it should come to pass that we are just waiting on the Lord and we start noticing that we are doing these things, they can be evidence that we have become saved through God's Spirit. In Hebrews 11:1 we read: 1) NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Aug 01 2004 08:30pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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I am over reacting. I am sure we can find the truth if we keep seeking. I found some more scripture concerning this that spells it out fairly well: Deuteronomy 30:19. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live. Joshua 24:15. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. God chooses us through His good mercy but has given us the free will to choose Him or reject Him. Repentance is key but not necessary for the many who are deluded into an automatic doctrine of election for they believe there is no need for deliverance ministries or the power of the Holy Spirit in effective Christian witness. These people are profess Calvinism. James 4:8. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Again, giving us the Choice. I decided to just get right into the Calvinist theology Koyi, to study this further. Because your theory is not a new one. It is called determinism and is widely supported by Calvinists. Martin Luther got the ideas of saving grace and the priesthood of all believers right but made a mistake concerning determinism. John Calvin took the error of determinism, the omniscient nature and foreknowledge of God and made a codified theology upon the foundation of predestination and persecution of those that disagreed. Because God already knew beforehand who was of the elect, there are a predetermined number of those that will be saved and damned so there is nothing that we can do that makes any difference. Here's where it really gets SCREWED UP TO ME. By following this absurd reasoning, man no longer has the responsibility to repent or have the power to do anything to change the will of God or alter these predetermined circumstances. The Bible however, says different. II Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Now they must come up with a doctrine to explain how we become Christians. Well, it is called irresistible grace and since we have no chance on our own to come to the Lord, He must draw us to Him. There is nothing that we can do to refuse that grace because it is already a predetermined number. If it didn't happen to another, it is because it was not God's will and they were not foreordained to salvation. It gets worse. The reason that we cannot come to the Lord ourselves is because we are all depraved through the fall of Adam and stay in that evil condition for there is nothing good enough in us to want to better ourselves. Jesus did not die for the whole world but only for the elect so their election is sure because they do not have the ability to fall away. Tell me your thoughts on this. Also, if you plan to study determinism, you need to understand exactly what it means. It does not just mean we have to be chosen, there is alot more that goes with it, to those that believe that way. For if you believe that, then by logic and reason of this theory there are a lot more things you would also have to believe for determinism to make complete sense. I won't post it all here, but check THIS out and tell me what you think. There is more HERE too. Sorry for my impatience early, I know the truth is on it's way because we are seeking it and we will find it together. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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I love you too DM. It is a sore and most bitter subject to study and I will respect your wishes and back away from it if that is your wish. DM, I am begging you to truely look into the scriptures I have posted with an open heart. Please don't turn your views aside because that is my wish, but humble yourself before God's Word. Listen to what He says in these scriptures and really search out what you have learned. I have explained how the scriptures you have posted fit into what I have posted, but it is almost like you don't even want to hear what I have posted. It is exceedingly ugly language and it doesn't bring me any joy to share this with Christians such as yourself because it turns your beliefs upside down and shakes the very fabric of what you believe in. I only wish the very best for us all my friend as I know you wish the same for me and mine and I thank you for that. I believe you are doing a great job in your faith raising your family and sharing your knowledge with others I really earnestly do. Let this study end here if you so wish it my friend. My very best wishes for you and yours Mobility. May God Bless you and your family. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Koyi, Moving that subject back over here. Maybe I am off base and maybe I am just loosing patience. If that is the case I am REALLY SORRY, seriously. BUT.... We have been going back and forth on this for SOOO Long, even before this thread, we were sending things back and forth via email. I have studied HOURS upon HOURS on this. I feel as I have brought the only Truth I know to the playing field with every scripture in the Bible that supports Grace. I honestly, am tired of it. If that is wrong, seriously, I am sorry. I just dont know what else to say. I have gone to my pastor, sought reference from well versed Christians .....and Mormons, no less. I just dont know what else to say. You keep telling me to post scripture as to why I believe the way I do, and I HAVE posted countless scriptures. I dont know what else to say but this: I have CHOSEN to serve God with everything that is in me. I have CHOSEN to raise my family in a non-denominational church that JUST studies the Word. I have CHOSEN to believe that Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Light. I have made a decision based on scripture that I am Saved by his Grace and that he loves me as his child. Dude, honestly..to believe it any other way just would not make sense. Constantly living in fear "Am I chosen or not"? It just does'nt make sense. I honestly would not even WANT to serve a God who played favorites like that. I love you man, you know that. I totally respect your dedication to seeking Truth. There are actually more things I would like to say about this, but to do it here would not even come out right because you cant hear or see me when I am speaking. Just reading words without understanding the feeling behind it. Anyways, I hope you can feel where I am coming from and I hope we can still study the Word on other issues together. I really like the study started on the Rock and the Importance of Baptism. Very good subjects. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Very interesting post DM. I like it. As far as the Rock subject is concerned, I think you hit it very well. God dwelling in His believers for His purpose would be like Him doing His will. The scriptures which I've search tells that He is the only Rock and foundation of the church which I will be posting shortly. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Romans 6:1-4 1)What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2)Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3)Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4)Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. In reading this passage you observe mention of some very basic things: Sin, the grace of God, the death of Christ, being buried with Him in baptism and walking in newness of life. What a marvelous statement that weaves together these matters of such great importance to us today. Our problem is sin; the grace of God gave the solution in the death of Christ. We apply that solution by being buried with Christ in baptism, to arise to walk in newness of life. In Romans 5:20, Paul made the statement: “Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.” Our problem is sin. God’s provision to solve our problem (the gospel) is a product of His grace. So, where sin abounded grace abounded much more! God’s provision for our problem of sin is more than adequate to meet the requirements of pardon. Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more. I was baptised as a child, but to me that baptism could not have meant to me as a child what it means to me today. I was baptised by choice about two years ago. I look at it as an outward expression of an inward committment. Old things pass away and new things begin. Those are my thoughts on baptism according to what I have studied and how we practice it in our church. On the subject of the ROCK, all through the Old Testament, "Rock" with an uppercase "R" refers to God himself Then in the Gospel of Matthew, we see Jesus, the "Rock," because he is a divine subject of action, renaming Simon "Rock." Jesus, the real "Rock," is also referred to as the "bridegroom" or "groom" as well in Scripture. The Church is his "bride". We know, also from the Word, that in marriage, whether natural or supernatural, the "two become one flesh." Jesus and his church are one; bridegroom and bride are one. Hence, Christ is naming Peter "Rock", one with himself. There is no other "Rock" other than Christ absolutely speaking. However, the Rock, in a mystical marriage, unites his beloved bride, the Church, to himself. Simon is named "Rock", and whoever hears the Rock Peter is hearing the Rock who is Christ; whoever rejects the Rock who is Peter, rejects the Rock Christ and the One who sent him, the Father. It is kinda hard to gather ALL the references and put them together in a way that makes perfect sense, but this is my understanding so far. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: Matthew 16:13-18 KJV what is this rock that the church will be built upon? I kinda had a different idea then what was posted and studied the subject. I believe the answer to this lies in the initial question of, "Who do you think I am". I will be posting the scriptures shortly to share, although I did find one verse or scripture that kinda threw me off a bit. It ties in with how Peter got things rolling in Acts so it's difficult to say, but all in all I believe that the answer is God is the Rock in this question. Revelation is an interesting idea, but the Bible doesn't really agree with it as far as I can see. I will post the scriptures when I have the time. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 29 2004 06:00am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: It is stated in the New Testament that the Holy Ghost descended upon Christ after his baptism. What do you think of this? Shouldn't we all receive the Holy Ghost after baptism? Why do you think Christ was baptized? In Hebrews 8:1 we read: 1) NOW of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majest in the heavens: This is Jesus Christ who this speaks of. In order for Him to pick up this priestly role, He performed signs for us to see what was required to become a prist. Isn't it interesting how He was baptized with the Spirit coming down on Him all in view? There's a reason for this I believe. Let's listen to God on this one. Same as with the old testament people of Israel. In Exodus 19:6 we read: 6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. The people of Israel were a picture of the elect of God. More importantly, the people who actually served as priests needed to fulfill a ceremonial cleansing. Let's look more into this. In Exodus 28:41 we read: 41) And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office. In Exodus 29:4 we read: 4) And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. We can kinda see why Jesus Christ set forth to be baptized by water now seeing as how He was looking to fill the office of a priest. John the Baptist was to pave the way for the Lord's coming. This is why he was chosen to do this for the Lord. (This is how I see it. Please feel free to add or shine more light on this. ) The water in the baptism is only a picture of what needs to happen for us to be saved. The water nor the people performing the ceremony don't help in our salvation for that is work we do. What does this washing of water symbolize? Let's take a look. In Ephesians 5:25, 26 we read: 25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. As we have read in Romans 10:17: 17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. This is what baptism symbolizes. I was baptized when I was very young, and I don't believe I see the fruits of God's Spirit within' me. That's why I believe that the gospel of our Lord is the water that is to baptize, not actual water. Any other insite on this subject anyone? _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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JamesF1 - Student 
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I wasn't saying he was, I could just see someone interpreting it that way and so wanted to avoid the situation before it arose Off to a RL(tm) bible study now, wh3rd up! _______________ Website |
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Smilykrazy - Retired 
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Koyi didnt say that we should keep the 10 commandments or keep the sabath day, he was just pointing out the fact that right in the middle of the 10 commandments, the commandment concerning the sabath day was a sign pointing to the fact that God and God alone sanctifies us. Sanctify means to make holy or set apart as in the believers of Jesus are set apart from the world. The point Koyi was trying to make was right in the middle of all the laws that God commanded people to follow, he put an indicator that those commands wouldnt be enough. For he is the one who does the saving. In Hebrews 13:8 we read: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. From the old to the new testament some of the laws and the days may have changed due to Christs coming because they were pointing to Christ. But the message of salvation has not. Thats all Koyi was trying to say. _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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JamesF1 - Student
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This is the problem you see, I usually forget the verse references themselves, and only remember the wording. I'll try to find them tomorrow... _______________ Website |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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James, I think it is important that you show us why you are right. I am not saying I disagree with you, but we dont like to take our own thoughts at face value unless it is based on scripture. So if you could show us the scriptures behind the old and new convenants, that would be great. Thanks Man, you Rock! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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JamesF1 - Student
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OK, time for a quick lesson here for anyone who doesn't know. Remember something, the Old Testament is a covenant with the JEWS. JEWS ONLY. It is there there for historical reference and for the idea of PRINCIPLES (such as the Ten Commandments). Things such as you quoted Koyi about having to keep the Sabbath to be sanctified applied to the JEWS. Example: If you read in context, the Jews were only (under the Ten Commandments) FORBIDDEN FROM KILLING OTHER JEWS. They could kill any non-Jew they pleased. The NEW TESTAMENT is a covenant with the whole world. In this, Jesus (and God, through the writers) demands a HIGHER level, and a totally different level. "Do Not Kill" no longer applies, but "Don't even think about killing someone" applies. We have a different covenant, we are no longer bound to keep the sabbath. Paul says "it doesn't matter what day [if any] you keep." The NEW TESTAMENT is what we should live our lives by and what we should take our beliefs from. The Old Testament is of importance and is invaluable, but things that the New Testament changes or expands upon STAY CHANGED/EXPANDED. We mustn't live our lives by the Old Way, but by the NEW Way. If you want to take the Old Testament, you'd better start bringing some spotless rams and find yourself some Levites to do your sacrificing. Does Jesus demand that? No. He demands a DIFFERENT lifestyle. The parts in the NEW Testament that talk about this are when Jesus is talking to the JEWS and in Hebrews (which is written to the JEWS). Notice the key-word - "JEWS". In summary: The Old Testament is the Jews' old law-book. The New Testament is the World's new 'guide-to-life'. _______________ Website This comment was edited by JamesF1 on Jul 27 2004 07:14pm. |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Yeah, concordances are great! I was just asking if it was a website or something since most of your scriptures seem to be posted as a means to back up this ONE point. There are alot of Calvinist Websites that site all the same scripture and say the same thing about us not being saved. I dont pretend to know God's word through and through, and I dont profess to know the mind of God. But to me, he layed out the salvation plan in a cut and dry manner so that all may come to know him and be saved. Thats all. I love you guys too and am happy your deep in study. In the end we are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. However, I do recommend you going to speak with a pastor regarding all these scriptures. Get some different points of view from people who have been studying the Word for 20 years or so longer than we have. Not that you can rely on mans understanding one bit in the slightest, but imagine where you would be in understanding if you had studied the word for that long. Well, there are TONS of people who have. I recommend a pastor at a non-denominational church. That way you won't get any religon mixed in with it. I wish you all a good week! I also would like to thank FaDed for being involved with us. He is leaving Monday and we won't hear from him again (most likely) on these forums for two years. We wish you the best of luck Colin. Your truly an inspiration! -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: I agree Koyi, Keep studying chastening and justification. Because according to what your insinuating and molding here, there is not ONE PERSON on this planet saved. I look forward to reading what you find out. I am praying you find truth. -DM- About the "there is not ONE PERSON" quote, it is impossible for us to know everybody and every soul and every heart on this planet. I know some really good people who I would almost believe they are saved in a heart beat only if they had faith to go with their works. I'm sure they are out there whether or not you and I don't know any personally. As far as justification by faith goes, I'm pretty sure I covered that well enough with the scriptures I posted. It is God's/Jesus's faith that saves His people. Not the whole world, just His elect. His royal priesthood was chosen from before the foundation of the Earth and He set us all up either to be raised up in glory or thrown down to eternal damnation. Who can argue that? Why is that so hard to believe? Because we've been told God is so loving and willing to forgive anyones sins our whole lives being raised? That's not what He says in His Word and we have to be extremely careful that we don't claim we know more then Him. He has the final Word and He has total authority. He is Almighty God and we all should be trembling before Him as the sin, sick creatures that we are. He hates sinners with a righteous hatred and is fully willing and able to destroy them. He has no pleasure in doing it, but His perfect integrity demands it. I sit here now a broken man drinking a beer almost in tears over the fact that there is no fear in alot of peoples eyes toward God. They believe that they have full revelation on all of God's commandments, all of His statues, all of His ways, total understanding of His salvation plan, (at least that's what it feels like), when God tells us no man can number His blessings. No man can know the mind of God. Let us take a quick look into God's Word again. In Psalm 40:5-11 we read: 5) Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more then can be numbered. 6) Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7) Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, 8) I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. 9) I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. 10) I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy loving-kindness and thy truth from the great congregation. 11) Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy loving-kindness and thy truth continually preserve me. This scripture kinda reminds me of a few comments that have been placed here. I don't put them here to hurt anyone. I love you all and I am desperately searching for truth and hope that all of our eyes might be open to God's Words. In Psalm 10:4-6 we read: 4) The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. 5) His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them. 6) He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity. In Psalm 92:1-7 we read: 1) IT is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O Most High: 2) To show forth thy loving-kindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, 3) Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound. 4) For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands. 5) O LORD, how great are thy works! And thy thoughts are very deep. 6) A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this. 7) When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: In Psalm 139:16-18 we read: 16) Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them! 17) How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! How great is the sum of them! 18) If I should count them, they are more in number then the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. We can never believe that we have total understanding or hold total truth in God's Word. We must come to Him knowing nothing and letting Him speak to us. Wash away what has been taught or believed and listen in awe of what God says. Just know that I am praying for us all hoping that my prayers are being heard. My soul aches for all of us. We are no worse then some that have been saved and God has no pleasure in destroying the wicked. I pray that all of us together will come to know God and His will. Maybe this whole thing is just me, but when I am told that God doesn't consider faith work when He calls it work in at least three scriptures really worries me. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Smilykrazy - Retired
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Its a concordence DM. He has one in his bible. Ever seen them? They are perfect for studying scripture! _______________ RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11 |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
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I agree Koyi, Keep studying chastening and justification. Because according to what your insinuating and molding here, there is not ONE PERSON on this planet saved. I look forward to reading what you find out. I am praying you find truth. Also, out of curiosity, where do you get most of your scriptures? I mean, is there a place your getting all these pertaining to a specific search or subject? I mean, your not literally digging through the word and finding all these scriptures that link together so quickly right? -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 26 2004 03:43am. |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Okay, moving on. In 1 Peter 2:9, 10 we read: 9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: 10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. This is a good example of what I am talking about when I say I'm waiting for the Holy Spirit. It's not always in God's plan to save one from birth, but during their life time He choses a time where He applies His Spirit to them and begins to live in them. At this time, they become a new creature in Christ and begin doing His will. Let's look at a good illustration when Paul who was Saul was saved. In Acts 9:1-6 we read: 1) AND Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2) And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3) And as he journeyed, he cam near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4) And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5) And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6) And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. In verse 1 we see that Saul was actually against Christ and His disciples not actually seeking Him. Christ came to Him even while He was in complete rebellion against God and lead him to the Truth. In Acts 9:13-18 we read: 13) Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14) And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15) But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16) For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17) And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18) And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. Saul was in complete rebellion against Christ and His people and yet was saved. A question came up earlier about having to be baptized before receiving the Holy Spirit. I have been baptized in Church, but that isn't what God has in view. We need to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. It cleanses our sin sick souls and that is what the water symbolizes. In 1 Cor. 12:13 we read: 13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. In Matt. 3:11, 12 and Luke 3:16, 17 are very simular language but in Matt. we read: 11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptized you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. In Psalm 51:9-13 we read: 9) Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10) Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11) Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. 12) Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13) Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. In verse 10 He says create in me a clean heart, and renew a right spirit within me. Read John 14:15-31 is a good read about the gift of God's Spirit. In John 15:26, 27 we read: 26) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27) And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 16:4-15 is more information on the Holy Spirit. I will post these if anyone would like to know what they say or don't have a Bible. In Romans chapter 8 we read about Life in the Spirit but let's look at a few verses. In Romans 8:9, 11, 14-16 we read: 9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: In Gal. 3:22-29 we read: 22) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25) But after that faith is come we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. In verse 22, we see "that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ". His work, not ours. Ours is evidence that we became saved. In Gal. 5:4-6 we read: 4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. In Col 3:8-10 we read: 8) But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of his that created him: In 1 John 3:1, 4-10 we read: 1) BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 4) Whosoever commiteth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8)He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. In 1 John 5:2-4 we read: 2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. If we have sin filled lifes where we look at girls lustfully whether they be on T.V., magazine, on the street, etc., we lie, cheat, steal, become exceedingly angry, curse, what ever, it's seems like this is evidence that we aren't saved. After all, do you really think that if we were filled by God's Holy Spirit we would still be capable of these things? These scriptures show us that when we receive God's Spirit, He mortifies/put's to death the deeds of the body. In verse 9 of 1 John 3 we see "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. I'm still confused though because of the laws of justification. I'm not saying I totally understand the whole thing, it's just something that we need to search out. Also there is scripture on sin still residing is one who is saved, but I still have a strong feeling that most of the sin in ones life would totally stop the instant God's Spirit baptized them. There is also scripture on God's chastening of those who continue in sin after being saved. May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word. Amen. _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Koyi Donita - Student
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Quote: In the book of James it says "By faith we are saved, and not by works." That means faith isn't classified (by God) as 'works'. Even when in three scriptures, God classified (in His own words) that faith is work? God also told Israel to keep His commandments to be His people something of which they all tried to do thinking it would save them when in fact that was complete rebellion against God. In Exodus 32:13 we read: 13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ever notice how this is right in the middle of the the ten commandments? First there are the ones pertaining to God and His worship, then the sign that He sanctifies us, then the moral laws. This is because the law as was our teacher of sin and right in the middle of the law He tells us that He sanctifies us. He also says that it is by His work that we are all saved along with the scriptures I posted pointing to Christ's faith as He is called Faithful. You guys don't see how this all fits together?  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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Fischeier - Ex-Student 
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I agree DM _______________ "Holding me back 'cause I'm striving to be... Better than you!" ~=-Fischeier=~- |
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Faith is definitley works. If we have faith in Jesus and believe on him, our actions and works will fall into place because we will do what he wants us to do, as he has stated in his word. I am merely trying to show that salvation is in our hands. We choose it or we dont. We live it or we dont. The notion that we can live our whole lives according to the word and put our complete trust in Christ, but still are not saved unless God chooses to save us is unjust and unfair and was not written into the law of justification through Christ. We absolutely have to live the life and be, "Christ-Like". No question. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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JamesF1 - Student 
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Quote: Isnt what you just said works? Faith is works and what you wrote is something that we must do. In the book of James it says "By faith we are saved, and not by works." That means faith isn't classified (by God) as 'works'. _______________ Website |
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Koyi Donita - Student
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I understand your scriptures DM. Jesus died on the cross to pay for sins. Your saying that if we have faith or believe in this, we are justified by our faith, not our works. Is that right? In Eph. 2:7-9 we read: 7) That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. In 1 Thess. 1:3 we read: 3) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; In 2 Thess. 1:11 we read: 11) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: God is telling us here that faith is a work so how does our faith save us if we aren't saved by works lest any man should boast? This is where I get confused with what you posted.  _______________ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17 I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her. ...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down.
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DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
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Koyi, I would have to say NO, I am not reconsidering God's salvation plan based on your scriptures. Everything you have posted, IMHO, either deals with the old laws or righteousness OR does not take into consideration our justification through Jesus's death and ressurection. I guess we still are not seeing what Jesus actually did when he died on the cross. He did not just die for our sins. He died for our JUSTIFICATION to the Father. Lets read again: Let's read verses 24-26: "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." These scriptures seem clear to me. I hope they are to you, too. We are not under the old covenant laws -- except, of course, those that are also part of the new covenant. Let's drop down to verse 29: "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." So, the point is that Christians are given the Holy Spirit on the basis of faith. We are justified by faith, or declared right with God by faith. We are saved on the basis of faith, not on law-keeping, and certainly not on the basis of the old covenant. If we believe God's promise through Jesus Christ, we have a right relationship with God. The law cannot give us salvation. All it can do is condemn us, since we all are lawbreakers. And God knew in advance that nobody could keep the law. As we read Galatians 3:24, 24)So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. The law points us to Christ. The law cannot give us salvation, but it can help us see our need for salvation, and it helps us see that righteousness must be a gift, not something we earn. When Judgment Day comes, and the Judge asks us why he should let us into his kingdom, how are we going to answer? Are we going to say that we have kept particular laws? I hope not, because the Judge could easily point out laws that we haven't kept, sins that we never knew we committed and never repented of. We can't say that we were good enough to keep the laws. No -- all we can do is plead for mercy. We have faith that Christ died to redeem us from all sins. He died to rescue us from the penalty of the law. That's our only basis for salvation. Christ died for us so that we might live for him. We are saved from the slavery of sin so that we might become slaves of righteousness. We are called to serve one another, not ourselves. Christ demands everything we have, and everything we are. We are expected to obey -- but we are saved by faith. We can see that in Romans 3. In one short section, Paul spells out the plan of salvation. Let's read it and see how it confirms what we have seen in Galatians: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify" (verses 20-21). Paul continues in verses 22-24: "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Because Jesus died for us, we can be declared righteous. God justifies those who have faith in Christ -- and therefore no one can brag about how well they keep the law. Paul continues in verse 28: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." So, in conclusion......I put more stock in Christ and what he did and what he represents then to just say, I have to wait for God to choose me. When Jesus was on the cross, I was on his mind......and so were you and everyone else....THAT MEANS SOMETHING.....please examine these scriptures and understand. Pray hard about them, because I have and it is very clear to me. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. |
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