| Tolkien Study | |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student  |
I kind of stole this idea from Koyi, so thanks to him for bringing me to this idea! (by stealing I mean: I saw his thread Bible Study and it came to me to do a Tolkien Study) In this thread, I'd like to discuss the literary works of Tolkien (The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Lost Tales (part 1 & 2), Left Tellings, ...). I want to talk about likes of the stories, and also some dislikes. Perhaps, when we come to a question, we can seek the answer together. Just, if you're planning to post something like: 'Tolkien sucks!' or whatever, please just ignore this forum. Thank you So start talking  When I've got some more time (and a connection that isn't 56k, then I'll post my opinions too  )_______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Casual - Student 
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Oh, and Bail, the Valar didn't actually recognise the difference between sexes, at least linguistically. Vala is the singular and Valar is the plurar, for both sexes. Valar means "those with power", and is really a collective noun for the spirits known as Ainur. For when they were Ainur, they didn't distinguish themselves as "shes" and "hes", since they were created in the mind of Iluvatar to realise his thoughts. Valier, which you quoted, must still be remembered as a Quenyan coinage, to differentiate the "male" Valar from the "female" Valar. But it must be stressed that the Valar were beyond sexes, it would be equivalent to pondering whether God is male or female Actually I had to check this from Tolkien's letters, where he notes that Valier was a coinage designed especially for the appendixes to create the difference between the males and the females. So it would etymologically be considered as a categorisation made eons after the Valar were truly named as they were. The Valar were fourteen, plus Melkor: Kings Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë, Oromë, Mandos, Lórien and Tulkas, and queens Varda Yavanna, Nienna, Estë, Vairë, Vána and Nessa. Melkor wasn't counted among Valar after his great betrayal. _______________ Thanks to the human heart by which we live, Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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now here is a nice discussion for you ... Why did Galadriel say: "I passed the test... I shall diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel" (thougher than you think) _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Casual - Student
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Melkor is the Quenyan name for Morgoth, meaning approximately "He, who arises in Might". Morgoth, on the other hand, means "The Black Enemy", or "The Darkest Enemy Of The World". The story of the Sun and the Moon is manyfold and beautiful. Moon was called Isil the Sheen, a flower of Telperion (the silver tree of Valinor), and the sun was called Anar the Fire-golden, fruit of Laurelin. The vessel of the Sun was guided by a Maia called Arien, and Tilion carried the the island of the Moon. Arien was a "gardener" of the golden flowers in the gardens of Vana, and Tilion was a hunter of the company of Oromë. It all began thus, but Tilion with his urge to meet with Arien, who was beautiful beyond words, would burn himself often when he came near her. So the Valar decided that the Sun and the Moon would both be in the sky only for a fraction of a day, and otherwise only one should rule the heavens. While one was in the sky, the other would be hurried across the bottom of Arda so that it would rise again as the other waned. I hope I remembered all the facts, though I should after hundreds of readings of Silmarillion, Lotr and the histories of Middle-Earth  TOLKIEN OWNS ALL! _______________ Thanks to the human heart by which we live, Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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Quote: Anyone think it was going to end differently? I thought it would be one of those "time repeats itself" ends where Aragorn would have to throw the ring into Mt. Doom with Legolas at his side ( so think back to Isildur and Elrond ) I am fairly certain I formed this opinion after seeing the 1st movie ( I read the books but didnt start until after I had seen LOtR:FOtR ) So I am sure plenty of people had an ending in mind that was different let here em. Yes, when I first saw the first movie (I had never heard of LOTR) I kind of expected a final showdown between Sauron and Aragorn. I also expected (for some reason) for Frodo to drop the Ring, and a Nazgûl (or maybe even Sauron) to catch it before it fell. Also, when I had read all the books, I still somehow thought they were going to let Frodo die in ROTK. Just look at that scene! nice scene nonetheless Any other alternative-endings? _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
The appendices, with the name list. This comment was edited by Jacen Aratan on Jul 09 2004 10:19pm. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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That is a good question Mor. one that I cant remember off the top of my head. I'll have to look that one up. yaaaaa got me!!! _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Scythus Aratan - Student 
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What page is his name on? _______________ Padawan to the great Jacen Aratan! <Setementor> Scythus is a genius! Claimer of the 5000th post in the Count thread [Solitude] scy rocks [Casual] good point scythus, you're really smart |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
... better yet, anyone who has the English version of the Silmarillion? Whatever it says in that book should be the correct one.. |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student 
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My translation says (might be a bit different since I translated): he who arises in Might any other opinions/translations? _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Melkor = "he, who appears with power" (or something around that.... sorry, but I'm not sure on how to translate it from Danish) |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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since it's a question for Vasper, I'm not gonna answer I just wanted to say that you're right Moridin, about the Sun and the Moon... Oh also, 'nother nice question What does 'Melkor' actually mean? oh btw, you asked how many Valar there were, technically, that's a wrong question, since a female Vala is a Valie _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. This comment was edited by Bail Hope of Belouve on Jul 09 2004 06:50pm. |
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Moridin - Student 
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Oooook Vas, here's a question for you! How many Valar are there? And who's the only one to not have a wife? _______________ Bros. with Janus, Leif, Motrec, Aiden, 3th, Zertz, Kenyon, and Vladarion. b00m! Banana Brother to Garos |
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Moridin - Student 
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The sun and the Moon are two Maia. (Think of angels) Lower than the Valar, they are their messengers, helpers, whatevers. Anywho, the Sun is a female Maia, and the moon is a male Maia, who loves her, and tries to get to her, but never makes it. (I think this is right anyway, all from memory, it may be vice versa) I'm pretty sure that the sun and the moon were made from the last bits of liquid from the two trees, after Ungoliant ate them. Last ditch effort at having some light. _______________ Bros. with Janus, Leif, Motrec, Aiden, 3th, Zertz, Kenyon, and Vladarion. b00m! Banana Brother to Garos This comment was edited by Moridin on Jul 09 2004 05:25pm. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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and another. In ancient Elf Lore, the Sun and the Moon are believed to be what? _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student 
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aye, he is only a minion to Morgoth. _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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Jacen Aratan - Student |
Sauron was the servant of Morgoth (meaning 'Dark Enemy' or something close to that), formerly known as Melkor, a Vala. Sauron is only a Maia. This comment was edited by Jacen Aratan on Jul 09 2004 02:32pm. |
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DJK - Student 
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Souron? if not i know that there ware someone ells before Souron. At that time souron were Apperentice. Right? |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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Another Question. What was the name of the "original" dark lord? _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
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DJK - Student
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Yea i thought Frodo was gonna do that too. But when i readed Gollum got it ,i thought HE was gonna jump in, but them he fell in....sigh....oh well so much for my theory |
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Scythus Aratan - Student 
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Legolas was a different type of elf from Elrond: He is a wood elf from mirkwood, wheras Elrond was a high elf. It could have been Aragorn but legolas is not the one, probably would have been Elond again if tolkien had chosen that plotline. I read the books first, and I had some idea that Frodo was gonna jump in with it or something. _______________ Padawan to the great Jacen Aratan! <Setementor> Scythus is a genius! Claimer of the 5000th post in the Count thread [Solitude] scy rocks [Casual] good point scythus, you're really smart This comment was edited by Scythus Aratan on Jul 08 2004 11:16pm. |
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(Jedi)Obi-JK - Student 
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Anyone think it was going to end differently? I thought it would be one of those "time repeats itself" ends where Aragorn would have to throw the ring into Mt. Doom with Legolas at his side ( so think back to Isildur and Elrond ) I am fairly certain I formed this opinion after seeing the 1st movie ( I read the books but didnt start until after I had seen LOtR:FOtR ) So I am sure plenty of people had an ending in mind that was different let here em. _______________ Silent Bob (Kevin Smith): You know, there's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you. -Steve (Obi) |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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Galadriel actually She was born in Valinor at the beginning of time, when Feänor was alive and kicking! Elrond was born in Middle-Earth in Gondolin, son to Eärendil, many years later ... _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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Vasper Ba'xian - Student
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ok...heres a question. 1 I know, just testin u guys. Who is older? Giladriel or Elrond? _______________ Brother to: Tamal, Kavar, J.D.,Jermia, Devlin, Ulic, Xiabara, Seij,Tarron Mib,>>>ROCK ON .My Spacescapes art page.My Everything Else art page. MY FAV. Jedi Are: Qui-Gon Jinn, Corran Horn, and Anakin Solo. Unofficial Master to Tamal. and Kavar. Founder of the Wuji Hundun Jian saber style. Proud owner of Tamal's 200th comment!//Proud owner of Refl3x's 300th comment!>>>Proud owner of Tyrant's 800th comment>>>Proud owner of Lucky's 170th comment>>>Proud owner of BDKawika's 444th comment>>>To except Existance is to except Reality.
This comment was edited by Vasper Ba'xian on Jul 08 2004 02:00pm. |
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DJK - Student 
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I liked the movies............ |
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Bail Hope of Belouve - Student
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*bump* _______________ Visit the Belouve Family Website! Quote: I try to have fun with my friends and try to make a difference as best I can. What does making a difference mean? Well, it can be as simple as saying hello, answering a question that seems obvious or heck, just talking. -- Vladarion
Want to know Vladarion? Read the Article about his life here. |
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