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A Study in the materials relating to God's Word or Jesus Himself.
Jul 18 2004 09:04pm

Koyi Donita
 - Student
Koyi Donita
Okay, here it is at last!

:D :) :D :) :D

Now all scriptures, texts, commentary, literature, etc. can be discussed openly and without any more harm or disrespect to anyone elses feelings. I have to warn you all once again that this is a discussion, NOT A DEBATE OR WAR. Come into this in a civilized and humane fashion treating others as you would like to be treated yourself. Violators beware.

Now anything relating or pertaining to God's Word or God Himself, (that is the God of the Bible or the Lord Jesus Christ), can be discussed with no limitations to what is brought to the table as long as it is profitable and in a respectful manor. Every one have fun and lets search for truth.

*I kindly ask yet again for no one to come here with any ill feelings or harmful actions. The Jedi Academy is a system built on respect so respect others and respect my wishes in keeping this forum for what it is designed for. If there is something you just have to say but violates what I have posted here, start another thread! It isn't that hard and you guys do it all the time. Please respect others. Thank you. :) *
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D

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Aug 04 2004 02:58am

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Quote:
If I might, I have a couple of questions I'd be interested in posing:

3. The Trinity. I was a Catholic in my earlier years (not that I'm not young :P ), but never really learned much about the Trinity besides that it was. What makes the belief in the Trinity important to you? Where in the scriptures is it supported? Perhaps this would be a case in which a scripture can be interpreted two ways, but I'm still interested in exploring the idea of the Trinity.


The Trinity is yet another word made up by the minds of men trying to understand perhaps what they are incapable of doing. I do however believe in the idea of it for scripture seems to be very clear that we serve only one God, yet there are three that are in view. Let's listen to what God has to say about this.

In John 1:1-3 we read:
1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2) The same was in the beginning with God.
3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I believe that the second verse is calling us to look back to the beginning of creation as the 3rd points to the fact that all things were made by Him being the Lord Jesus Christ. Let us turn to Genesis 1:1.

1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now we can simply assume that this is the Lord Jesus Christ by Himself doing this, but let us look a little further at the creation of mankind.

In Genesis 1:26 we read:
26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now the picture becomes a little clearer because God says in this verse, "Let us make man in our image." If it were only Jesus, he would have said I will create them in my own image. Remember the 2nd half of John verse 3, "and without him was not any thing made that was made." This verse kinda leaves room for help in creation, but God is only one God.

In Colossians 2:9 we read:
9) For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

There are so many other verses pointing to the fact that Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him, verse of Jesus saying He will come to dwell in a believer which is what we see the Holy Spirit doing. God is God, 3 in 1. Remember in Genesis where God{singular} said, "Let us{plural}". I hope this helps you out. :D

-------------------------------------------------

Also, I found yet another scripture support my post below.

In Acts 17:23-31 we read:
23) For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24) God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25) Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26) And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27) That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28) For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Believing in the structures and the buildings that are the church is vain, it's the people and the Word of God which is important.
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Aug 06 2004 08:15pm.

Aug 03 2004 12:16am

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Quote:
If I might, I have a couple of questions I'd be interested in posing:

1. Smily's most recent causes me to ask. What makes people believe Church isn't necessary? I just want to know, because I've Always believed in organized religion...To me it seems it is necessary. How else can we perform the ordinances that Christ commanded us to, or set the example for (baptism, the sacrament, ect.)? I'd be interested in hearing from you guys.


I too follow the belief that the church, that is the buildings, aren't very important. The reason why I belief this is because God in His Word in 2 Thessalonians in the second chapter talks about a falling away before the return of Jesus.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 we read:
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6) And now ye know what [withholdeth]{is restraining} that he might be revealed in his time.
7) For the [mystery]{hidden truth} of [iniquity]{lawlessness} doth already work: only he who now [letteth will let]{restrains will do so}, until he be taken out of the way.
8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall be destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11) And for this cause God shall sent them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Verse 3 speaks about the day of Christ not coming unless there come a falling away first and Satan being revealed. {What falling away? Have to search the scriptures to get the full meaning of that.} Whenever God speaks about Judgment it is never a pretty thing.

In 1 Peter 4:17 we read:
17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Judgment must begin at the house of God and Satan opposing and exalting himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Sounds to me that the church{the buildings} are in alot of trouble set up from this moment in time.

Back to Thessalonians, in verse 4 we see Satan opposing God by being worshiped as God ruling His churches. {Why would God do this or how is Satan able to do this?}
In verses 5 & 6 gives us the basic knowledge there was a warning and it is being brought up again that we may know what is restraining that it might be revealed.
In verse 7 tells us that iniquity was already working within the churches{buildings of worship} back then at that time and that iniquity, (or perhaps Satan) would be restrained until He being the Holy Spirit or God be taken out of the way.
In verse 8 shows us that after God or the Holy Spirit being taken out of the churches{buildings} that the Wicked/Satan would be revealed who shall be destroyed by the Lord's coming.
In verses 9-11 we are told with what tools Satan will use, the reasons why the people would be lead into this, and are shown that God sends a strong delusion on them, that they should believe a lie. This is very simular to what happened in the days of Jesus coming with the Pharisees and priests of that time. They believed that they held on to truth but were sorely mistaken holding onto the fabric of their very own understandings.
Verse 12 shows that He does this so that they may be damned who believe not the truth.

This sounds horrible, but it is in total agreement with Romans chapter 9 where God creates us either vessels of mercy or vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. It's all in accordance to His purpose and His Glory.

As earlier as Revelation, we can see the work of iniquity in the churches{buildings}.

In Revelations 2:9 we read:
9) I know thy works, and tribulations, and poverty, (but thou are rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

In Revelation 2:13 we read:
13) I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

In Revelations 2:24 we read:
24) But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

In Revelation 3:1 we read:
1) AND unto the [angel]{messenger} of the church in Sardis white; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

In Revelation 3:15 & 16 we read:
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

In 1 Corinthians 3:16 we read:
16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The buildings that are the churches aren't God's temple for it is not built on the foundation that is Christ. God's true believers are His temple. The buildings are or maybe where a nice place to come together with other believers but who really needs these buildings to come together with others? At any time or any places believers can come together to worship God. Problem is that now a days too many people put more faith in the minds of men and of structures then they do the Bible.

As for the ordinances that Christ commanded us to, or set the example for (baptism, the sacrament, ect.) are concerned, what about the ordinances that Christ commanded us to back in the old testament where He commanded us to follow them until the end of time? Simple:
1) they pointed to Christ as the savior and
2) God brought destruction onto His people Israel and the temple where they worshiped Him.

Same thing may be happening now a days. Christ is bringing destruction more or less in a Spiritual sense as He is removing Himself from the churches and allowing Satan to deceive the so called believers. Now Christ as we have seen in earlier scriptures has full athority to judge His temple, that are the buildings, where judgment must begin. In this fashion, God is destroying His temples yet again where we should be keeping His ordinances, but how can we be expected to when He is doing this? It isn't like these things hold any water in our salvation anyway. Sacraments isn't even a Biblical term as far as I know. They are all signs pointing yet again to Christ and His plan of salvation.
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Aug 03 2004 02:04am.

Aug 02 2004 08:39pm

SaberWeildinKow
 - Student
 SaberWeildinKow

If I might, I have a couple of questions I'd be interested in posing:

1. Smily's most recent causes me to ask. What makes people believe Church isn't necessary? I just want to know, because I've Always believed in organized religion...To me it seems it is necessary. How else can we perform the ordinances that Christ commanded us to, or set the example for (baptism, the sacrament, ect.)? I'd be interested in hearing from you guys.

2. As you may have read in Obi's thread, the Book of Moses is used by LDS as an addition to the rest...but anyway, it says in Moses 1:33 "And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten." With all this space out there, with all these stars and planets...what do you all think from a Spiritual sense about this?

3. The Trinity. I was a Catholic in my earlier years (not that I'm not young :P ), but never really learned much about the Trinity besides that it was. What makes the belief in the Trinity important to you? Where in the scriptures is it supported? Perhaps this would be a case in which a scripture can be interpreted two ways, but I'm still interested in exploring the idea of the Trinity.

Jul 30 2004 12:02pm

Smilykrazy
 - Retired
 Smilykrazy

yeah church isnt necessary. :D
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RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11

Jul 30 2004 09:22am

Plo Koon
 - Student
 Plo Koon

you dont have to go to church to be a Good,loving,Compassionite being.just live life with kindess with compassion and love,you could do it at home or church your choice...
_______________
Free Tibet!
Click this link,and learn
Here too


Jul 30 2004 01:45am

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

LOL

XD

Me also DM, me also. :D
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 30 2004 01:46am.

Jul 30 2004 12:07am

DaRtH-MoBiLiTy
 - Student
 DaRtH-MoBiLiTy

/me stands at the wall hoping to be picked on God's team for Dodgeball.
_______________
One Day, it will all end.

Jul 30 2004 12:01am

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Why would He? We all wallow and flop around in our slop that is sin. Now when God lifts His elect out of the slop, cleans them off, and reveals them unto Himself, that shows off His Amazing Grace. When the world comes to an end on Judgement day and all sinners that aren't saved get cast into the lake of fire, we will witness His wrath making His gift of Grace so much more wonderful. Think about it. Without God's gift, His elect would have been destroyed too. What wonderous love is this? Why do they deserve it? Because it is to God's purpose and who are we to argue with it? God is Almighty God. :)
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


Jul 29 2004 08:19am

Plo Koon
 - Student
 Plo Koon

i think if there was the ever and all powerfull loving "god" dont you think he would do something to help the world just a smidget? all the evil and sickening Evilness and sadness i think the all powerfull god would do something...
_______________
Free Tibet!
Click this link,and learn
Here too


This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Jul 29 2004 08:20am.

Jul 29 2004 06:11am

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Quote:
Job 38:4,7 KJV
Moses 4:1-4
Revelation 12:6-8 KJV-JST
Isaiah 14:12-14 KJV
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Moses 1:39


These scriptures have intriged me a great deal. The one from Isaiah and the one from Job almost sound as if they tie in with one another, but I feel that Isaiah is saying something totally different. More to come on that with the study involving Lucifer/Satan. :)

Please, if anyone has any other additional ideas or beliefs on this, please post so that we may further search this topic out. Got my brain clicking on this one. :)
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


Jul 25 2004 06:00am

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Wow. Some of these scriptures are very interesting. I have so much more to learn and to read. :)
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


Jul 23 2004 11:47pm

FaDed
 - Student
 FaDed

Jeremiah 1:4-5 KJV
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the wob I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

it is common knowledge and accepted belief that God is omniscient, or all knowing. he knows everything that ever was, ever is, and ever will be. in this verse, the Lord is telling Jeremiah that He knew him, even before Jeremiah was born. how well did God know Jeremiah? how well did God know all of us? the answer to that question is simple; perfectly. the real question lies in how well did we know Him and what is our relationship to Him.

John 1:1-5 KJV-JST
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made which was made.
4 In him was the gospel, and the gospel was the life, and the life was the light of men;
5 And the light shineth in the world, and the world perceiveth it not.

it is also commonly accepted that the creation was done through Christ under the direction of our Heavenly Father. but even before this world was created, there was an existence, a pre-existence.

Job 38:4,7 KJV
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

in this verse God is asking if Job knew where he was before the earth was created. God asks if he knows about when all the sons of God shouted for joy. who are these morning stars and sons of God and what were they so joyous about?

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying--Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me--Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to decieve and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Revelation 12:6-8 KJV-JST
6 And there was a war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;
7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been deliveredof her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.
8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.

Isaiah 14:12-14 KJV
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

before the world was, a plan was presented in which our Father explained that we, his children, would come to earth to receive a body so that we could become more like him. two versions were presented by Lucifer and Jesus Christ. Christ's was selected and there was a war in heaven between those who wanted Christ's plan and those who wanted Lucifer's plan. Lucifer and his followers lost and were cast out of heaven.

we were all spirit children of our Father in Heaven and those of us that chose to follow Christ's plan came to earth to receive our bodies, starting with Adam and Eve even up until this day.

Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory--to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

we are in this world so that we may learn and grow, that the Lord may test us and try our faith in Him. we are the Lord's work. we are His glory. he wants us to become like He is and receive the fulness of His blessings.

Jul 23 2004 06:49pm

DaRtH-MoBiLiTy
 - Student
 DaRtH-MoBiLiTy

That does not say that you have to believe that he has only one son to be saved.

It says you have to believe in THE NAME OF JESUS, God's Only Son to be saved. That does not say that you have to believe that he has only one son to be saved. Even though God does only have one Son, but i consider my self a child of God, dont' you?

-DM-

_______________
One Day, it will all end.

This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Jul 23 2004 06:53pm.

Jul 23 2004 06:43pm

JamesF1
 - Student
 JamesF1

John 3:18 (italics and underlines added by me)

Quote:
Whoever belives in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's One and only son.


Sorry - but that's God's Word. You have to belive Jesus as the ONLY Son of God.
_______________
Website

Jul 23 2004 06:24pm

DaRtH-MoBiLiTy
 - Student
 DaRtH-MoBiLiTy

Quote:

The Bible clearly states that... "You must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is the only son of God."


Could you please post that scripture?

Thanks,

-DM-
_______________
One Day, it will all end.

Jul 23 2004 06:22pm

JamesF1
 - Student
 JamesF1

Incorrect.

The Bible clearly states that... "You must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is the only son of God."

Mormons do not believe that. Draw your own conclusions.
_______________
Website

Jul 23 2004 04:20pm

DaRtH-MoBiLiTy
 - Student
 DaRtH-MoBiLiTy

Ah, this will be good.

Koyi, the one thing about Mormonism that is good, (TO ME), is the fact that they do believe in the same salvation plan that is written in the Bible, according to all my conversations I have had with FaDed and other Mormons.

Really to me, if you believe in Jesus and ask for forgivness and believe he is the son of God and that he died for your sins, THAT, to me, is the most important part.

-DM-
_______________
One Day, it will all end.

Jul 23 2004 12:13pm

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Quote:
If you find authors who stick to the texts that were found instead of mere speculation, you will find a goldmine of information.


I was just wondering how you know if there is any truth to what these people say? Anybody can search for the truth and anybody can write a book on their findings or from their minds. What is it about these that make them authentic?
:)
_______________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


This comment was edited by Koyi Donita on Jul 23 2004 10:38pm.

Jul 23 2004 12:10pm

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Quote:
allow me to bring the LDS side to the table.

it is true, we are saved by grace, for salvation comes through the atonement of christ and his resurrection.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
9 Not works, lest any man should boast.

now let's break this passage down. it says by grace we are saved through faith. in the pre-existence we had faith enough in christ that he would do as he said he would, that is, he would come down and atone for our sins and overcome death through the resurrection. because of our faith, we followed him. salvation comes through the grace of God, salvation meaning we will all be resurrected. without christ doing what he did, there would be no resurrection. all would be lost. and so "it is the gift of God" that we are saved. every man and woman that has ever come to this earth, lived, and then died will be reunited with their body. and then the judgement comes...

it is also true that we are not saved by our works. for if that were true, we would not need the atonement or christ because we would be getting ourselves into heaven. but works do play a vital role in the plan of happiness.

Revelations 20:12-13 KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

after we are resurrected, we will stand before God and we will be judged. we will be judged by our works. now how do we know what works are? works are such things as faith in christ, baptism, repentance, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. works are also the covenants we make with our Heavenly Father and the ordiances that we fulfill. by these things will we be judged and by these things it is decided what glory we will recieve.

though, this is not all. as i said earlier, works will not get us into heaven, it is by grace that we are saved. this time salvation has another meaning, exaltation. once we are judged according to our works and if those works are all that we could do, meaning we held nothing back, but instead we gave our whole selves and lives to God, it is then that grace kicks in. because no man is perfect and it is impossible for us to become perfect on our own, christ's atonement makes up for what we lack. and so again, we are saved by the grace of God.

in short, there are two phases of salvation. first, the gift of God being resurrection of all mankind. this is the freebie. second, salvation meaning meaning exaltation, where after we are judged according to our works, the grace of God makes up the difference for what we lack.


This was posted awhile ago on the Bible study forum and as I was curious to ask, I didn't want to bring foriegn material onto that one so now I can ask here. :) I was wondering if you can add supporting scripture from the Book of Mormon to everything you say here so I can read it's message of salvation? I would really appreciate it Faded. Either break it down almost sentence/scripture or just start anew.

Thank you very much for your help in this matter.

:D
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


Jul 23 2004 04:24am

n00b
 - Student
 n00b

I read that the origins of Christianity stemmed from the Essenes in some history books I picked up from the University of Oklahoma. It was very interesting reading to say the least. I encourage anyone interested in that topic to read about the Essenes. They were the jews who left behind the Dead Sea Scrolls. Be careful what books you pick up about the Dead Sea Scrolls because there is a lot of trash out there. If you find authors who stick to the texts that were found instead of mere speculation, you will find a goldmine of information.
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Gone but hopefully not forgotten...

Jul 23 2004 12:30am

DaRtH-MoBiLiTy
 - Student
 DaRtH-MoBiLiTy

Amen FaDed.
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One Day, it will all end.

Jul 22 2004 06:38pm

FaDed
 - Student
 FaDed

2 Nephi 25:23-26
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

i felt compelled to share this scripture when Moby said: Quote:
My main focus on church is to ONE, raise my kids in the truth so in the end they won't depart from it and TWO, be obedient and get strength to live right.


what better example is there to follow? could God ask for anything more than for us to teach our kids about Christ? what more than to be obedient to the laws that are given, though they are dead to us, as we wait for Christ to fulfill them? it was said that we are saved by grace, but only after we give everything we have and do everything that we can. if we are not doing these things, if we are not rejoicing in our Lord, Jesus Christ, if we are not talking and preaching about things concerning Him, we are not doing all that we can.

my brothers, these threads are a blessing unto us. these threads give us a great opportunity to study the words of the prophets, the teachings of Christ, and His all important atonement. though this isn't enough. as Moby stated, we must go out and join with the other Christians in worship. we must go out and be taught by the Lord's servants. we must teach our children about Him.

Mosiah 4:9-10
9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.
10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

God is all powerful, all knowing, all loving. we have been commanded to love Him, but let us consider it a priviledge to do so. He has provided a way for us to return to Him. so i give us all a challenge. if we love Him, let us keep all His commandments. "and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them."

Jul 21 2004 09:40pm

Koyi Donita
 - Student
 Koyi Donita

Faded, I went over those verses you posted and I would like for us to discuss them. It could be that my eyes are closed to the real meaning. Will post more soon. :D
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Rom. 1:16
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17
I love my babyface. Smilykrazy is my baby and I love her.
...Swimming through the void we hear the Word, we lose ourselves but we find it all... System Of A Down. :D


Jul 21 2004 12:18pm

Smilykrazy
 - Retired
 Smilykrazy

If anyone is interested in obtaining the Book of Mormon I have a telephone number you can call that was on TV. Its free so I figured I would post it.

1-800-908-3322.

Thats just for people who may be interested in that book. :D ITS FREE!!! :D:D:D
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RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11

Jul 20 2004 05:14am

Smilykrazy
 - Retired
 Smilykrazy

Quote:
Oh sorry, I thought there were more, hehe.

The forum can be made anonymous, so everyone can post and enter a username. You can also register an account in a 1 minute to post with.

Just let me know if you want me to set it up or not :)


Cool TY aron!! :D
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RIP MOM 06/29/58-07/31/08 Married to Koyi Donita 4/30/11

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