| A little respect goes a long way... | |
|
 - Student |
Hey everybody. Before I begin, i'd just like to make one thing clear. I'm not writing this thread as a Jedi Academy Knight, nor as someone representing the JAK+. I am writing this as a person who has been part of the Jedi Academy for over Two years, and has grown to love and respect the Academy, and those who run it. With my long experience as a long time Member of the Academy, former Jedi Instructor and current Jedi Knight, I feel confident enough in my knowledge of the Academy and how it is run to know what is acceptable, and what is not. Everything in the Academy boils down to one thing - RESPECT. However, in the last month or two, I have noticed a lack of this respect. This disrespect I have seen has not come in large forms, but instead in small forms, but it has occured so much, that it has, in my opinion, become a major issue. What I am about to say will probably not be recieved well, but I feel that it must be said. Back when the Academy was in JKO, and before there was so much of an announcement of JKA, the Academy was a fairly peaceful place, and respect and friendship amongst students was the norm. We only had one "Matrix" dueling room on our JK2 map. In this room, people would train, and duel, and a line of players waited their turn to face the winner of the last duel. If people wanted to train privately, they'd head into the Ceremonial hall, or one of the other dueling rooms. If they wanted to practise their gun skills, they would go to the courtyard. If they wanted to chat, they'd either wait on the sidelines, or go to the main hall. All in all, things were organised, almost everybody was happy, and a good time was had. Of course, there were also incidents with troublemakers once in a while, but such things are unavoidable, even in a place as heavily administrated as the Academy. This peace was maintained, by both the great nature of our students, and the hard work of the JAK+, for many months. In fact, I feel that it was maintained..... until recently. Now? I go to the server, and I spawn, and I see people having pistol duels. This is forbidden, as written in the Academy rules. Gun training is restricted to the Fortress area. None the less, students do this. After dealing with this, I go to the bar to checked for locked booths that are empty, and the NPC room to check for loose NPC's that aren't being used. Usually, everything is alright there, and that is the way it should be. So, I then go and check out the dueling rooms, and seek a few friendly duels. I go to the middle room, and I see a small scattered crowd of students around the mat, while two people duel. When the duel ends, and the opponent waits for his next opponent, just about every student runs onto the mat, and challenges him. Now... at first, I didn't think much of this. Until I saw that there is one student, who has been patiently waiting for his long overdue chance to duel, is constantly overtaken by some selfish person who is only concerned with themselves, and doesn't consider his fellow students. I see this as ignorance, and disrespect. After this, I see a duel end, and I see two students in duel mode walk onto the mat, and basically steal the mat from the person who has just won a duel, and is currently using that room... and to top it off, for the first time in more than Two years in the Academy, I saw someone actually say "Bullsh*t, bad fight" after a duel! I also see this as ignorance and disrespect. It is inconsiderate, selfish, and I am greatly disappointed to see people fail to consider their fellow Academy members. Now, this is, of course, not a description of everything that happened in one visit to the servers. However, all of the aforementioned events have happened in my presence more than once. But, not only this, but I have seen JAK+, the ROLE MODELS of the Academy, the people who are supposed to examplify respect and the Academy's rules, doing these things. This is completely and utterly intolerable. In fact, in the past day alone, I have minimised my game to check IRC, and was killed either sitting, or with my chatbox up, by one JAT, and one retired JAT. Also, while I was training with a friend, as I won a duel, a JAT and a student, already engaged in duel mode, began their duel as myself and the friend I was training with stood there, absolutely shocked by the behaviour of these two people. I was actually quite angry about this, and teleported the JAT to the courtyard, and continued training. Beyond all this, I believe the conduct of the JAK+ (Yes, myself included) lately has been quite unfitting for people who's job is to teach, administrate, and be a model of the behaviour that every Academy member is expected to show. However, I have seen JAK+ threaten students, such as telling them that they would "kick their ass" if they did not comply with their demands. I have also seen JAK+ taunt and mock some of the younger, or less experienced students. Yes, I did do this, but now, I am making the effort to examplify the behaviour I would expect from everyone else. I urge all JAK+ and students alike to do the same. As for the forums... I have seen students berate and mock other students for the way they type, or posting in the wrong forums (A mistake easily made by newer students), or even asking a question that is commonly known by older students! Why? To increase their own sense of self importance? Who knows? I don't care. It has to stop, it is nothing more than bullying. We should be making a GOOD IMPRESSION, especially on newer students, who are still finding their way in the Academy. From now on, bullying on the forums, IRC, or the servers, will be dealt with; I promise you this. These problems are slowly growing, and it is making the Academy somewhat unpleasant place to be. Please, I beg everybody who reads this, to step back, and look at how they act, and adjust their attitudes and behaviour to show the respect, fairness, consideration, and honour that you would expect from everyone else. Thank you for taking the time to read this... -Mike EDIT : A post by T Siduro that I think is the best reply that has been posted here. Quote: Figuring out what you should and shouldn't do is really easy, and it boils down to asking yourself this simple question before you do anything: Would a real Jedi do what I'm considering doing? Hmm, would real Jedi rush the mat when someone had finished dueling for their turn? *shrugs* Think about it. aka WWJD - What Would Jedi Do? This post was edited by  on Sep 15 2004 09:18pm. |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |
| Comments |
|
solitude - Jedi Council 
|
*bump* well said, and relevent to whats happening now _______________ Joined 16 October 2004 | Retired 10 April 2005 | Returned 05 June 2008 | Made Staff 27 June 2008 | Made Council 18 January 2009 Padawan To Odan-Wei Belouve | Adopted into the Belouve family | Twin to xAnAtOs | Owner of the 4th Quesi sexy badge  Brother To Roan Belouve, Nomad, Majno, Silkmonkey, Kensei and Jarhok Belouve
Owner Of Virtue's 1000th profile comment, Mr. Doobie's 1000th profile comment, Gradius' 2500th comment, xAnAtOs' 2500th comment, Rosered's 1500th comment, Laziana's 900th comment, Scythus' 500th comment and Echuu's 100th comment |
|
Kamidake Kenji - Student 
|
Urrah Mike, way to post! I myself have been with the JA for quite some time now. In fact, I can still remember the old JO days where things were, as Mike said, more organised. I miss that Academy. The one where the newer members were looked after and taught to not only to play the game better, but to function as a respectable citizen within our community. The one where I could look at ALL the JAK+'s and think "Gosh...what an awesome player." and truly respect them for who they were, and not just for the tag they wear. I'm not saying that nobody here does their job anymore, as I know that I myself haven't been the best of examples to the newer people as well, but we could be better. We all have a part to play within this large family we call the Jedi Academy. May we all find a way to improve upon ourselves, ALL of us, and the way we "raise" our younger brothers and sisters within our academy! Here's hoping that someday we can bring peace back to our community and it's beloved leaders! Urrah, for the Jedi Academy! _______________ "...wait, what?" |
|
Roan Belouve - Retired 
|
Nice post Mike and a lot of well thought out responses. A few things came to mind after reading Daid’s post mentioning a class on respect. Munes Big Brother scheme should point out things like respect etc that we have here and are less apparent on Pubs. Also Bail’s post was good for those that don't go through the big brother/sister process. Unfortunately respect is not a requirement when joining, but hopefully by acting with respect those who do not will feel unwelcome. _______________ *Bro to Vaxxla,Padawan of FiZZandOdan-Wei Part of the mighty Belouve Dynasty-Knight of Nippledom.Twin of Selphestal!**Proud Master to Kaelis and Acura Friend to anyone who would call me the same  . Pic by the amazing Majno (merry)
|
|
Carve - Student 
|
Figuring out what you should and shouldn't do is really easy, and it boils down to asking yourself this simple question before you do anything: Would a real Jedi do what I'm considering doing? Hmm, would real Jedi rush the mat when someone had finished dueling for their turn? *shrugs* Think about it. aka WWJD - What Would Jedi Do? _______________ © |
|
SaberWeildinKow - Student 
|
Mike, just read the post today and I agree. I've just really stepped back and thought about it. Though it doesn't happen (too) often, I won't be pulling out my pistol anymore. I think perhaps it is the nature, the sheer size of the map that discourages me from going to the fort...but that's my problem  The whole dueling lines thing...I agree with you there also. I'm sure I've been guilty of competing for a spot. With many people on the server and no 'benches,' I can see how (but not justify) this can happen. /me vows to do better Good thoughts Mike. |
|
Mookie - Ex-Student 
|
Ah right, point taken as well. |
|
DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student 
|
Kenyon, Point taken, but as far as the public humiliation goes, i was refering to a JAK teleporting a JAT in front of a JAS in order to make a point that is not his to make publically. And if that is not bad enough, for all those who did'nt see it, to just come right out on a public thread and tell everyone you did it. Seems slightly disrespectful to me. Thats all. While I do commend Mike for wanting this place to be better there are rules and laws we all must follow. Even if ethically, we think we are right. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Sep 14 2004 09:41pm. |
|
Mookie - Ex-Student
|
I don't agree with that. We all know ranked members have disagreements (I had them, even with Mike, and he's still one of my best JA friends) and sometimes get angry on one another - if that is mentioned publicly I'm sure no one will go, "holy shit, they're normal people after all!". Saying that even ranked members participate in a community-wide problem is okay in my book. It's hardly 'public humiliation'. Sure, we mess up. And it's rude to publicly call names and have a fit at them. But only mentioning the fact that a ranked member screwed up is hardly humiliation. Regarding the other points, err. If we need to have waiting lines for Matrix rooms (and I'm talking actual lines) then we simply need more Matrix rooms. It's that simple. Regarding the 'winner takes the mat' thing... we never did that when I was around. It was the exception, not the rule. Sure, I took the mat with another player, and then after our game it was the other couple's turn, no biggie. We enjoyed watching eachother fight. Suppose you're this really sweet fighter, does that mean you get the mat? What kinda survival-of-the-fittest mentality is that? Nah, share fair guys. As for spelling - I've made a joke to one guy for spelling, and while it's mean of me, I don't think I'm that horrible for doing it. People who can't spell properly - I can live with that, some people are better at it than others. However, the moment I seriously cannot, as a foreigner, read what is being said, I start to become annoyed. I mean, to the English guys here, both European and American, if you see a Spanish site, you don't go speaking English on their Spanish forums! It's rude. You gotta be able to talk with other people if you want to use the forum, that's what it's all about. Just my two cents, -Ken This comment was edited by Mookie on Sep 14 2004 08:58pm. |
|
DaRtH-MoBiLiTy - Student
|
Quote: Now, this is, of course, not a description of everything that happened in one visit to the servers. However, all of the aforementioned events have happened in my presence more than once. But, not only this, but I have seen JAK+, the ROLE MODELS of the Academy, the people who are supposed to examplify respect and the Academy's rules, doing these things. This is completely and utterly intolerable. In fact, in the past day alone, I have minimised my game to check IRC, and was killed either sitting, or with my chatbox up, by one JAT, and one retired JAT. Also, while I was training with a friend, as I won a duel, a JAT and a student, already engaged in duel mode, began their duel as myself and the friend I was training with stood there, absolutely shocked by the behaviour of these two people. I was actually quite angry about this, and teleported the JAT to the courtyard, and continued training. Beyond all this, I believe the conduct of the JAK+ (Yes, myself included) lately has been quite unfitting for people who's job is to teach, administrate, and be a model of the behaviour that every Academy member is expected to show. However, I have seen JAK+ threaten students, such as telling them that they would "kick their ass" if they did not comply with their demands. I have also seen JAK+ taunt and mock some of the younger, or less experienced students. Yes, I did do this, but now, I am making the effort to examplify the behaviour I would expect from everyone else. I urge all JAK+ and students alike to do the same. I beleive this should have been posted on a different forum man or emailed to a JAC if it really bothered you that bad, you cant just slam ranked folks in public view without knowing the full story or handling it properly. This gives a bad view to all of us regarding ranked individuals and creates very subjective thoughts concerning the validity and honor of our system. Just My Opinion. Furthermore, I believe that if a JAT had done something that was unacceptable to the point where public humiliation was necessary (if that exists) , would'nt it be the job of a JAC to judge and carry that out if necessary, or is that in the JAK job description? Just wondering... You know I love ya Mike, but there is an order and a chain of command here. We all need to follow that above all else. -DM- _______________ One Day, it will all end. This comment was edited by DaRtH-MoBiLiTy on Sep 14 2004 08:33pm. |
|
Thomasooo - Student 
|
You don't suck, Silk! j00 rule! I couldn't agree more with ya, Mike. I know I used to say lots of crazy/disrespectful things in IRC earlier, without realizing that I'd maybe hurt smoeone's feelings. I've begun to think before I talk lately, which I advice everyone else to do. It's not that hard. _______________ In the navy and LOVING it!
Recipient of comment no. 1000 and heart-warming words from Ataris!
|
|
 - Student |
Well, there is a good point about the fort, and the FPS issues. As long as EVERYBODY on the server is alright with it, I don't mind them going to one of the matrix rooms and having a pistol duel. But there IS a problem with this - a student connects to the server while two people are having a pistol duel, walks into the room, and gets shot, or thinks "Ooh, FFA!". Fortunately, there will be a much better, more gun friendly fort in the next map. |
|
SilkMonkey - Distributor of Cold Ones 
|
Yeah...what Squib said....just ask... 99% of the time no one will have a problem with it. And its not always a bad idea to keep getting beat down by good people. I mean...I once spent an entire saturday being mopped up by Luke. But every time I was getting better... So it can help if you are adjusting yourself as you keep playing the better person, you can rise to your level. Same thing for people who win all the time. If you arent being challenged at all, you might want to try another server. Or, if theres enough people on, you could try another matrix or something. But then again I'm a crazy old bastard in JA terms...maybe my ideas suck.  _______________ |-HK-47 -SilkMonkey: You are receiving a warning for being_too_sexy. If you do not stop, action will be taken against you.|| (11:13:43) � Virtue dances for Silk ||Smiling owner of Smilykrazy's 6000th comment =) ||Odan Wei's Proud Big Brother|| Janus is my official TaruTaru Cuddly Animal Type Person. ||(@Virtue) Or you could just be a man and set fire to your genitals.....you won't fall asleep for days after that.......trust me.||Thomas Skywalker er for sexy for sitt eget beste!!!!| Not changing sig until the JA loosens up. (Started: Aug 31, 2005) |
|
Squibit - Student 
|
Guns out of the fort is not banned. As long as you ask the people on the server if its ok and they all agree it is fine. All it takes is "Ok tell me if you guys would object to me and XXXXXX having a pistol duel in right matrix" Wait half a mintue or so and if noone objects go for it. Check for AFK people returning or new people joining the server tho _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
|
|
Scythus Aratan - Student 
|
One of the troubles about the guns only in the fort is that many people cannot fight there due to bad FPS, so Matrix's are the only real options. _______________ Padawan to the great Jacen Aratan! <Setementor> Scythus is a genius! Claimer of the 5000th post in the Count thread [Solitude] scy rocks [Casual] good point scythus, you're really smart |
|
Majno - Padawan 
|
I confess I have done some of the things, walk on the mat and pistol duel in matrix, but when I did them I was not corrected ingame, now when I see the error in my ways, I shall make an effort not to repeat them. IMHO I think the post was great, and I see were older members come from with this. As for the academy nowadays yeah its like that sometimes.The JAK+ should indeed enforce this code on servers. Oh to all I disrespected by doing any of the things, I sincerely apologise. Majno... _______________ " You've just taken your first steps into a larger world. " - Ben. This comment was edited by Majno on Sep 13 2004 09:14pm. |
|
Gradius - Ex-Student 
|
Now I've noticed that this thread has turned into a difference of opinion regaurding respect and how it should be taken care of, which is good up to a point. Sure, it may not mean anything to those of you who just flat out don't care, but for the rest of us, it's an "eye opener." Even if we didn't notice how bad it's getting to be, now we do, and we can watch for these things to happen more closely. If someone lames you, even out of fun, but you don't like it, talk to the person. If he/she continues to do it, take a condump over to an admin and he/she will deal with it more "forcefully." Same goes with any other forms of disrespect. Talk to the person first, prvately. If they keep it up, report them. It's your duty as a member of this community to do such things to help keep it in check, and it's that simple. People who don't want to stop being asses just don't belong here, no matter how "popular" they may be. I think you guys see where I'm getting at with this, so that's all, for now. _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
|
_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
|
Quote:
Quote: It's not exactly useless; it's different when a JAK+ makes a thread about such kinds of things, than when a JAS makes one. Quote: I'm not writing this thread as a Jedi Academy Knight, nor as someone representing the JAK+. Speaks for itself It's not about whether he wrote the thread as an admin or not. I know he didn't. But he *is* an admin, and people feel different towards admins (most of the times). _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
|
Squibit - Student 
|
The problem is that dueling is alot more interest can be achieved by dueling a variety of opponents. If there is one uber skilled person (who i will call Kain ) and a bunch of 6 newbies (who i will call Squib 1 through to 6) then after kain has beaten all the squibs twice then the squibs may get bored and go to left matrix and carry on. Now Kain will have noone left to duel and so will look for a place where people are taking turns duling. He will go to the matrix with all the squib's in and duel one of them. After winning, as winner stays on is the usual method he will stay in this matrix for a long time also , and the whole proccess repeats again. Maybe after beating everyone twice in winner stays on the uber player could step off and let others take a turn Quote: 1)distributing the new map to everyone would not be practical. 2) you'll still get players wanting to push past even if they can't 1) Nah not too much of a problem , new map due out some time soon anyway (/gives virty the evil eyes )2) Yes this is the point its people wanting to push through that is the problem, not the fact they do. No matter what system is in place disrespecting people will still be disrespectful. _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
This comment was edited by Squibit on Sep 13 2004 06:27pm. |
|
SaBrE - Ex-Student |
there are ways to fix this physically. i know it would not be practical to do this but for teh queing for duels part, maybe a small corridor for queing, one that you cannot jump over or walk past anyone in front. this takes less than 3 mins in radiant but there are two problems with this: 1)distributing the new map to everyone would not be practical. 2) you'll still get players wanting to push past even if they can't i guess im thinking out loud :/ i haven't been at the academy long enough to know anything of the JO days or even the JA days. i can say though it is vastly different to the public servers and i reckon you cant have everything :| _______________ "Yep! I've been drinkin' again" |
|
Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
|
Quote:
Quote: I think they just dont understand that this is the way we do things. Having said that, I think this should NOT be the usual way we decide who the next to duelers are ... The problem with the winner staying in the middle, is that those who are better at dueling will have much more oppertunitys to fight. This surly makes no sense for the academy. The people with least skill would have the least chances to practise when they should have the most. I think the "usual" method of deciding the next pair of duelists, should be those waiting around the mat engage and step on after the current duel is ended. Doing "Winner stays on" should be an unusual activity that should be declared "Winner stays on duels in right matrix !!!" No. If some of the people waiting in line can't keep up with the skill of someone who keeps winning, and they want to duel someone else, they should go somewhere else and duel. I get very annoyed if I win a duel and 2 duellists take the mat from me, as i'm sure alot of others do. _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
|
Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
|
That pair should go use another matrix room, and let the winner of the duel in that matrix duel on, instead of being kicked to the back of the line again (unless he jumps on the mat after duel ends or another pair do the same). _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. This comment was edited by Kainz00r on Sep 13 2004 06:11pm. |
|
Squibit - Student
|
Quote: It's not exactly useless; it's different when a JAK+ makes a thread about such kinds of things, than when a JAS makes one. Quote: I'm not writing this thread as a Jedi Academy Knight, nor as someone representing the JAK+. Speaks for itself I agree just charging forward to join the deul is a problem. I would hope that forming organised lines isn't neccersary. I havn't experianced this much. people usualy see if other bystanders have taken a turn and if not go forward. Lots oftimes thinking it was my turn walked forward at the same time as another. Almost always both the other person and me both applogise and allow the other to go ahead As for the two people engaging and walking on after the duel.I don't think those who do this are being disrespectful, atleast not deliberatly. If they were to be disrespectful they wouldn't be waiting for the duel to end at all! I think they just dont understand that this is the way we do things. People maybe should explain it to new members during the tour of the map Quote: I think they just dont understand that this is the way we do things. Having said that, I think this should NOT be the usual way we decide who the next to duelers are ... The problem with the winner staying in the middle, is that those who are better at dueling will have much more oppertunitys to fight. This surly makes no sense for the academy. The people with least skill would have the least chances to practise when they should have the most. I think the "usual" method of deciding the next pair of duelists, should be those waiting around the mat engage and step on after the current duel is ended. Doing "Winner stays on" should be an unusual activity that should be declared "Winner stays on duels in right matrix !!!" Obvioucly if there is just two people in the matrix people should check to see if they are doing private training before taking the mat off them _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
|
|
Rosie - Student 
|
The thing about "taking" someones duel-mat I've donem yself, but what? just cuz I'm standing on it and just finished a duel does it mean that it's mine? It has happened to me also, that I've had to move myself off it to let a pair duel but it has never bothered me. I would only wait for my turn again or go to another room. No biggie |
|
Lancer007 - Student 
|
The post you made mike is great. |
|
Setementor - Jedi Master 
|
This is annoying, I must admit. I walk into a matrix and don't get a duel for 20 minutes or so. Yes, I mean literally 20 Minutes! Standing in line is a very good idea in my opinion. |
| < Recent Comments | Login and add your comment! | Previous Comments > |