| A little respect goes a long way... | |
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 - Student |
Hey everybody. Before I begin, i'd just like to make one thing clear. I'm not writing this thread as a Jedi Academy Knight, nor as someone representing the JAK+. I am writing this as a person who has been part of the Jedi Academy for over Two years, and has grown to love and respect the Academy, and those who run it. With my long experience as a long time Member of the Academy, former Jedi Instructor and current Jedi Knight, I feel confident enough in my knowledge of the Academy and how it is run to know what is acceptable, and what is not. Everything in the Academy boils down to one thing - RESPECT. However, in the last month or two, I have noticed a lack of this respect. This disrespect I have seen has not come in large forms, but instead in small forms, but it has occured so much, that it has, in my opinion, become a major issue. What I am about to say will probably not be recieved well, but I feel that it must be said. Back when the Academy was in JKO, and before there was so much of an announcement of JKA, the Academy was a fairly peaceful place, and respect and friendship amongst students was the norm. We only had one "Matrix" dueling room on our JK2 map. In this room, people would train, and duel, and a line of players waited their turn to face the winner of the last duel. If people wanted to train privately, they'd head into the Ceremonial hall, or one of the other dueling rooms. If they wanted to practise their gun skills, they would go to the courtyard. If they wanted to chat, they'd either wait on the sidelines, or go to the main hall. All in all, things were organised, almost everybody was happy, and a good time was had. Of course, there were also incidents with troublemakers once in a while, but such things are unavoidable, even in a place as heavily administrated as the Academy. This peace was maintained, by both the great nature of our students, and the hard work of the JAK+, for many months. In fact, I feel that it was maintained..... until recently. Now? I go to the server, and I spawn, and I see people having pistol duels. This is forbidden, as written in the Academy rules. Gun training is restricted to the Fortress area. None the less, students do this. After dealing with this, I go to the bar to checked for locked booths that are empty, and the NPC room to check for loose NPC's that aren't being used. Usually, everything is alright there, and that is the way it should be. So, I then go and check out the dueling rooms, and seek a few friendly duels. I go to the middle room, and I see a small scattered crowd of students around the mat, while two people duel. When the duel ends, and the opponent waits for his next opponent, just about every student runs onto the mat, and challenges him. Now... at first, I didn't think much of this. Until I saw that there is one student, who has been patiently waiting for his long overdue chance to duel, is constantly overtaken by some selfish person who is only concerned with themselves, and doesn't consider his fellow students. I see this as ignorance, and disrespect. After this, I see a duel end, and I see two students in duel mode walk onto the mat, and basically steal the mat from the person who has just won a duel, and is currently using that room... and to top it off, for the first time in more than Two years in the Academy, I saw someone actually say "Bullsh*t, bad fight" after a duel! I also see this as ignorance and disrespect. It is inconsiderate, selfish, and I am greatly disappointed to see people fail to consider their fellow Academy members. Now, this is, of course, not a description of everything that happened in one visit to the servers. However, all of the aforementioned events have happened in my presence more than once. But, not only this, but I have seen JAK+, the ROLE MODELS of the Academy, the people who are supposed to examplify respect and the Academy's rules, doing these things. This is completely and utterly intolerable. In fact, in the past day alone, I have minimised my game to check IRC, and was killed either sitting, or with my chatbox up, by one JAT, and one retired JAT. Also, while I was training with a friend, as I won a duel, a JAT and a student, already engaged in duel mode, began their duel as myself and the friend I was training with stood there, absolutely shocked by the behaviour of these two people. I was actually quite angry about this, and teleported the JAT to the courtyard, and continued training. Beyond all this, I believe the conduct of the JAK+ (Yes, myself included) lately has been quite unfitting for people who's job is to teach, administrate, and be a model of the behaviour that every Academy member is expected to show. However, I have seen JAK+ threaten students, such as telling them that they would "kick their ass" if they did not comply with their demands. I have also seen JAK+ taunt and mock some of the younger, or less experienced students. Yes, I did do this, but now, I am making the effort to examplify the behaviour I would expect from everyone else. I urge all JAK+ and students alike to do the same. As for the forums... I have seen students berate and mock other students for the way they type, or posting in the wrong forums (A mistake easily made by newer students), or even asking a question that is commonly known by older students! Why? To increase their own sense of self importance? Who knows? I don't care. It has to stop, it is nothing more than bullying. We should be making a GOOD IMPRESSION, especially on newer students, who are still finding their way in the Academy. From now on, bullying on the forums, IRC, or the servers, will be dealt with; I promise you this. These problems are slowly growing, and it is making the Academy somewhat unpleasant place to be. Please, I beg everybody who reads this, to step back, and look at how they act, and adjust their attitudes and behaviour to show the respect, fairness, consideration, and honour that you would expect from everyone else. Thank you for taking the time to read this... -Mike EDIT : A post by T Siduro that I think is the best reply that has been posted here. Quote: Figuring out what you should and shouldn't do is really easy, and it boils down to asking yourself this simple question before you do anything: Would a real Jedi do what I'm considering doing? Hmm, would real Jedi rush the mat when someone had finished dueling for their turn? *shrugs* Think about it. aka WWJD - What Would Jedi Do? This post was edited by  on Sep 15 2004 09:18pm. |
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Scythus Aratan - Student 
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One of the troubles about the guns only in the fort is that many people cannot fight there due to bad FPS, so Matrix's are the only real options. _______________ Padawan to the great Jacen Aratan! <Setementor> Scythus is a genius! Claimer of the 5000th post in the Count thread [Solitude] scy rocks [Casual] good point scythus, you're really smart |
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Majno - Padawan 
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I confess I have done some of the things, walk on the mat and pistol duel in matrix, but when I did them I was not corrected ingame, now when I see the error in my ways, I shall make an effort not to repeat them. IMHO I think the post was great, and I see were older members come from with this. As for the academy nowadays yeah its like that sometimes.The JAK+ should indeed enforce this code on servers. Oh to all I disrespected by doing any of the things, I sincerely apologise. Majno... _______________ " You've just taken your first steps into a larger world. " - Ben. This comment was edited by Majno on Sep 13 2004 09:14pm. |
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Gradius - Ex-Student 
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Now I've noticed that this thread has turned into a difference of opinion regaurding respect and how it should be taken care of, which is good up to a point. Sure, it may not mean anything to those of you who just flat out don't care, but for the rest of us, it's an "eye opener." Even if we didn't notice how bad it's getting to be, now we do, and we can watch for these things to happen more closely. If someone lames you, even out of fun, but you don't like it, talk to the person. If he/she continues to do it, take a condump over to an admin and he/she will deal with it more "forcefully." Same goes with any other forms of disrespect. Talk to the person first, prvately. If they keep it up, report them. It's your duty as a member of this community to do such things to help keep it in check, and it's that simple. People who don't want to stop being asses just don't belong here, no matter how "popular" they may be. I think you guys see where I'm getting at with this, so that's all, for now.  _______________ - Proud padawan of Kueller. - We really are at the beginning of it all. The trick, of course, is to make sure we never find the end. - Bill Bryson, A Short History of Nearly Everything - <gen-e-sis-happy> Liek, you can train, liek, a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b... --> Wise words! - "daer SOE me likes your a company i am having your some money for letting me do stuff cos mes the best amd i do it all meself" - Slider |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student 
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Quote:
Quote: It's not exactly useless; it's different when a JAK+ makes a thread about such kinds of things, than when a JAS makes one. Quote: I'm not writing this thread as a Jedi Academy Knight, nor as someone representing the JAK+. Speaks for itself It's not about whether he wrote the thread as an admin or not. I know he didn't. But he *is* an admin, and people feel different towards admins (most of the times). _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Squibit - Student 
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The problem is that dueling is alot more interest can be achieved by dueling a variety of opponents. If there is one uber skilled person (who i will call Kain  ) and a bunch of 6 newbies (who i will call Squib 1 through to 6) then after kain has beaten all the squibs twice then the squibs may get bored and go to left matrix and carry on.Now Kain will have noone left to duel and so will look for a place where people are taking turns duling. He will go to the matrix with all the squib's in and duel one of them. After winning, as winner stays on is the usual method he will stay in this matrix for a long time also , and the whole proccess repeats again. Maybe after beating everyone twice in winner stays on the uber player could step off and let others take a turn Quote: 1)distributing the new map to everyone would not be practical. 2) you'll still get players wanting to push past even if they can't 1) Nah not too much of a problem , new map due out some time soon anyway (/gives virty the evil eyes )2) Yes this is the point its people wanting to push through that is the problem, not the fact they do. No matter what system is in place disrespecting people will still be disrespectful. _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
This comment was edited by Squibit on Sep 13 2004 06:27pm. |
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SaBrE - Ex-Student |
there are ways to fix this physically. i know it would not be practical to do this but for teh queing for duels part, maybe a small corridor for queing, one that you cannot jump over or walk past anyone in front. this takes less than 3 mins in radiant but there are two problems with this: 1)distributing the new map to everyone would not be practical. 2) you'll still get players wanting to push past even if they can't i guess im thinking out loud :/ i haven't been at the academy long enough to know anything of the JO days or even the JA days. i can say though it is vastly different to the public servers and i reckon you cant have everything :| _______________ "Yep! I've been drinkin' again" |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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Quote:
Quote: I think they just dont understand that this is the way we do things. Having said that, I think this should NOT be the usual way we decide who the next to duelers are ... The problem with the winner staying in the middle, is that those who are better at dueling will have much more oppertunitys to fight. This surly makes no sense for the academy. The people with least skill would have the least chances to practise when they should have the most. I think the "usual" method of deciding the next pair of duelists, should be those waiting around the mat engage and step on after the current duel is ended. Doing "Winner stays on" should be an unusual activity that should be declared "Winner stays on duels in right matrix !!!" No. If some of the people waiting in line can't keep up with the skill of someone who keeps winning, and they want to duel someone else, they should go somewhere else and duel. I get very annoyed if I win a duel and 2 duellists take the mat from me, as i'm sure alot of others do. _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight 
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That pair should go use another matrix room, and let the winner of the duel in that matrix duel on, instead of being kicked to the back of the line again (unless he jumps on the mat after duel ends or another pair do the same). _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. This comment was edited by Kainz00r on Sep 13 2004 06:11pm. |
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Squibit - Student
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Quote: It's not exactly useless; it's different when a JAK+ makes a thread about such kinds of things, than when a JAS makes one. Quote: I'm not writing this thread as a Jedi Academy Knight, nor as someone representing the JAK+. Speaks for itself I agree just charging forward to join the deul is a problem. I would hope that forming organised lines isn't neccersary. I havn't experianced this much. people usualy see if other bystanders have taken a turn and if not go forward. Lots oftimes thinking it was my turn walked forward at the same time as another. Almost always both the other person and me both applogise and allow the other to go ahead As for the two people engaging and walking on after the duel.I don't think those who do this are being disrespectful, atleast not deliberatly. If they were to be disrespectful they wouldn't be waiting for the duel to end at all! I think they just dont understand that this is the way we do things. People maybe should explain it to new members during the tour of the map Quote: I think they just dont understand that this is the way we do things. Having said that, I think this should NOT be the usual way we decide who the next to duelers are ... The problem with the winner staying in the middle, is that those who are better at dueling will have much more oppertunitys to fight. This surly makes no sense for the academy. The people with least skill would have the least chances to practise when they should have the most. I think the "usual" method of deciding the next pair of duelists, should be those waiting around the mat engage and step on after the current duel is ended. Doing "Winner stays on" should be an unusual activity that should be declared "Winner stays on duels in right matrix !!!" Obvioucly if there is just two people in the matrix people should check to see if they are doing private training before taking the mat off them _______________ Quote: fiZZe: its SIR Fizzy Fluffy :p Quote: FiZZ[JAK]: that was what I call a counter Ah, things you only ever expect to hear once
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Rosie - Student 
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The thing about "taking" someones duel-mat I've donem yself, but what? just cuz I'm standing on it and just finished a duel does it mean that it's mine? It has happened to me also, that I've had to move myself off it to let a pair duel but it has never bothered me. I would only wait for my turn again or go to another room. No biggie  |
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Lancer007 - Student 
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The post you made mike is great. |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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This is annoying, I must admit. I walk into a matrix and don't get a duel for 20 minutes or so. Yes, I mean literally 20 Minutes! Standing in line is a very good idea in my opinion. |
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Kainz00r - Jedi Knight
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Yeah, I completely agree with the duelling in the matrixs rooms. There is little if any respect shown for people waiting to duel, or the winners of the duels (When another 2 duellists run onto the mat once he/she wins). To me this is -very- frustrating and i'd like to see an end to it. As for the pistol duels, I'm guilty of being involved in that and also other gun antics like chasing a certain member about with a rocket launcher. When I do these things I would never shoot at another bystanding student/JAK+ and if there was a risk of it I would stop immediately. But I understand your point and will save my gunning for the fort. _______________ Fervent supporter of duelling - leave a message if you would like to battle! Married to Masta. |
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SilkMonkey - Distributor of Cold Ones 
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I remember the good ol' days that JJ was talking about on JK2. Unfortunately it seems like we need to have someone regulating who goes in duels. Having been cut off several dozen times...its quite annoying...especially when you have a life of your own and can't devote all of your time waiting and hoping nobody runs onto the mat before you. I suggest we build some old matrix-style platforms and institute a way to have lines. _______________ |-HK-47 -SilkMonkey: You are receiving a warning for being_too_sexy. If you do not stop, action will be taken against you.|| (11:13:43) � Virtue dances for Silk ||Smiling owner of Smilykrazy's 6000th comment =) ||Odan Wei's Proud Big Brother|| Janus is my official TaruTaru Cuddly Animal Type Person. ||(@Virtue) Or you could just be a man and set fire to your genitals.....you won't fall asleep for days after that.......trust me.||Thomas Skywalker er for sexy for sitt eget beste!!!!| Not changing sig until the JA loosens up. (Started: Aug 31, 2005) |
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Daidalus[JAP] Fisto - Student ![Daidalus[JAP] Fisto](/image_thumbnail.php?f_type=users&f_width=49&f_height=70&f_image=3482.jpg){kind=small}
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this rank was an example, i know that it woudnt solve the problem very well. But i hope that somthing will happen. And i must say that the current system is NOT good enough if we have such problems. greetings, daid _______________ Founder of the Fisto Family -|- Member of the mighty FiZZsters!! -|- Owner of the second Bail prize for "BAIL RULES!!" -|- I'll never forget you Jaina! -|- Owner of the one and only autograph of Smily -|- SMILY RULES -|- Owner of the 1000th Comment of the great Kueller -|- Big brother to NarCosT Fisto, and ShadowFax . -|- Proud Padawan of Kueller -|-Sir Daidalus Fisto. Official Historian of Nippledom and server to Menaxia, Queen of Nippledom Quote: fiZZe: "gdamubububugmgmgububugrrrrrdsa?"
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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That kinda class wouldn't solve much. Yeah some might learn a few things, but many will just feign to have learned something. And what we should care about is those "many" because those are the lamers in the end. And the current system is good enough, I don't think adding a new rank would solve anything (reason: above) _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. |
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Daidalus[JAP] Fisto - Student
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It seems that i need to say some more words to this topic. I came to my oppinion because i was thinking of the poeple who show disrespect. Most of rthem dont even read that thread and even if they do, they dont mind and just ignore it. Why should that post change thair mind? they feel cool by showing disrespect. or they dont mind feelings of others and they just dont care! Why should that people show more respect because of a post? Thats why its useless. And i meen if you want to change the situation you need to do active somrthing against disrespect. I havt been around much these days so i cant say how people act, but maybe you should think about a different handling of new people. So many of them are joining these days without reading rules nor think it is necessary to be kind to others. So maybe JAK+ should think about setting up a "starting-rabnk" for new people. This rank shoudnt be visable to normal studants because of sotial equalisation, but this people should have only limited access to the server. The reason is that there must be one ore more classes whish every new member has to pass. In that classes there is no training with the lightsaber but learning the basic sotial rules of the academy like showing respect to everyone. It doesnt matter how good the new people can handle a lightsaber but it should matter how they interact with each other. To be sure that they just dont be kind in that classes, the real topic must be hidden, it could maybe look like an "first-step-training" or something like that. People who dont show respect are not allowed to pass the pre-classes, so they have to stay. maybe this will help a little. maybe it is only a thougt and you make somthing compleatly different, i dont care. important is DO somthing, speaking abot problems doesnt solve them. greetings, daid _______________ Founder of the Fisto Family -|- Member of the mighty FiZZsters!! -|- Owner of the second Bail prize for "BAIL RULES!!" -|- I'll never forget you Jaina! -|- Owner of the one and only autograph of Smily -|- SMILY RULES -|- Owner of the 1000th Comment of the great Kueller -|- Big brother to NarCosT Fisto, and ShadowFax . -|- Proud Padawan of Kueller -|-Sir Daidalus Fisto. Official Historian of Nippledom and server to Menaxia, Queen of Nippledom Quote: fiZZe: "gdamubububugmgmgububugrrrrrdsa?"
This comment was edited by Daidalus[JAP] Fisto on Sep 13 2004 03:53pm. |
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_cmad_ - Ex-Student
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Quote: "awsome post"... blabla sorry Mike, nothing personal but this post is not awsome, not at all. I 've seen such posts around lots of times now, but they are all useless. its like you want to put out a burning house by shouting "Fire!!" and everybody claps in the hands but no one do somthing. If you see somthing of disrespect just walk to them and speak with the people privatly. Directly at the place. No shouting, no inculpetaion and no bad words. Just talk to them, show them a good example and you will get the fruits of your work after some time. You can only earn respect by showing respect even to disrespect people. greetings, daid It's not exactly useless; it's different when a JAK+ makes a thread about such kinds of things, than when a JAS makes one. Yeah, they're both dead serious, but the audience respects them in a different way, even though everyone should be equally respected. As for the thread... Well to be honest, I wouldn't really expect you Mike to make such a post. I mean, you used to act like the kinds of things you described in this post. Yeah the reason might have been different (I don't think mentioning it would be any better than not doing so, especially since I'm not sure I'm right). But I really can't deny that you did do some not-so-good things. I know you tried a lot to get over it [the reason], and I'm very happy about you But, I don't know; what do you believe that someone who only has seen you bullying someone (because he doesn't hang out in IRC a lot, or for any other reason) will think of this post? "Look who's talking!". Of course I could be wrong.To avoid any confusion: I appreciate the fact that this post was made, to remind everyone that to keep things civil, we have found the rules, and they must be obeyed. Disrespect is (or should be) the most important rule in this Academy; if you lack it, you'll either have to learn to live with it, or you'll just have to go. - cmad  _______________ Your friends of today, are your enemies of tomorrow. This comment was edited by _cmad_ on Sep 13 2004 02:01pm. |
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Masta - Jedi Council 
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I fully agree too =) You finally noticed it Mike.Im proud of you =) _______________ Find out more about the Jedi Academy Aurochs here and more about Masta here! Married to Kain. |
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Katan - Student 
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I fully agree with this post (even though I'm being hypocritical.) And Mike, I would like to publicly apologize to you for laming you when your chatbox was up (or for laming you period). I meant no harm by it. Was just playin' with ya. I apologize. _______________ |
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Setementor - Jedi Master 
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I agree, this is all true. |
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Furi0us - Student 
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Quote: And if you happen to know the names of the two who were dueling in Vlad's garden, you should let the council know. Of all the things people could do to disrespect students and/or the JA, that is the worse. This was a while ago now, I think they were dealt with. _______________ You are not your f***ing system specs. You are not your uptime stats, your script file, or your oversized desktop screencap. You are not your broadband connection. You are not your f***ing post count. |
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Plo Koon - Student 
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Mike.... my exact thoughts as of lately and you expressed them.the old JK2 days had more honor,respect,"Jedi like feeling",patience... thanks for posting this. _______________ Free Tibet! Click this link,and learn Here too This comment was edited by Plo Koon on Sep 13 2004 10:53am. |
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Henkes - Student 
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Good Post Mike I'm shocked that this issue needed a second post though. Angel's RESPECT the dying member of the JA did point out that respect is slipping sometimes. And now a second post... I would also like to apologize to anybody that feels/felt disrespected by me. I know I'm joking around sometimes, but if you feel offended, please, please tell me. Yours Faithfully, Henkes _______________ Get on your feet and do the Funky Alfonzo! This comment was edited by Henkes on Sep 13 2004 10:37am. |
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Menaxia - Student 
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Daid - It's sad to say that a simple sentence or two in private is not sufficient anymore. I have noticed that if you don't rush onto the mat after a duel has ended, you can be waiting an awfully long time to get your 'turn'. Pistol duels I would say are confined to the new students who don't know better, and they are perfectly happy to move to the fort when asked. The point is that there has been a growing culture of a little-less-respect than we expect * * And it has got to stop. I agree with Mike - we ALL need to take a look ourselves and as individuals take more responsibility for keeping the JA the fantastic place for training that it is.It's a school people, lets treat it as such. It's as much about respect for the place as it is for the people we meet here. _______________ This is not the place to look for me |
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